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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1627211239069.jpg ( 94.81 KB , 1079x1280 , 3fcae6fe9b4bfb4b280a6b45ab….jpg )

 No.400420[Reply]

What it says on the tin. What do you think about Christian/Muslim/whatever communists? Should they be trusted to work along with leftists or are they reactionaries in comrade's clothing?
68 posts and 13 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.402419

File: 1627269208084.jpg ( 58.67 KB , 645x685 , 1616646498014.jpg )

>>401555
>cope the CCP is on its death bed
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 No.402520

>>402325
your cope is noted
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 No.402541

>>401468
Former soviet communists are majority orthodox Christian, African communists in former British colonies are almost exclusively protestant/evangelical, Indian communists are largely Hindu but disproportionately Muslim & Christian, while Arab communists are disproportionately Christian. Filipino & Latin American Communists tend to be Catholic as well, with parties usually operating largely Catholic mass orgs.

I'm talking about the base, ie average prole/peasant who is a communist party cadre or mass org supporter, not necessarily leadership except in the case of Africa where it seems the leadership of most communists parties are evangelical preachers & pastors.

Yes, DPRK practices state atheism, most people are at least moderately spiritual though ie belief in spirits, ghosts and superstition is normal particularly in rural areas and while people in China are nominally atheist most are also deeply spiritual, usual believe in the concept of an afterlife, spiritual entities, "good/evil" in a mystical sense, etc, although not in an organized religious way.
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 No.402564

File: 1627272075427.png ( 56.05 KB , 1191x310 , Lenin On Religion.PNG )

Communists shouldn't bully or harass religious people, even Lenin said that persecuting people because they were religious was very retarded.

The church was used in the past to convice people that being exploited in this world was worth it because you could always go to the afterlife, in a communist society where people are free from exploitation religion is a personal matter just like sexuality or your choice on pizza.

Religion is more likely to be reactionary because society itself is supposed to be reactionary, everyone should be free to believe in some jew in the sky if they want to, as long as that belief is not used to exploit people.
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 No.402579

File: 1627272508468.jpg ( 115.55 KB , 903x500 , 1626814607851.jpg )

>>401555
>cope the CCP is on its death bed
picrel
>>401455
>Marxism is not about eradicating religion. It is not about destroying tradition and culture. It is about doing away with the economic circumstances which make people prefer to hide away from reality in religion.
this
>>401493
>the world's most Christian nation
again, largest population = largest number of Christians. What are the percentages?


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 No.396020[Reply]

The most radical change possible to the world power structure and the path it is taking who would you choose to be removed?

Alot of people can be replaced by next man up but some out there are very valuable with their knowledge and connections.
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 No.400681

>>400616
>>400648
So are you gonna tell me the contradiction or are you just gonna pretend you read all three volumes of capital?
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 No.400761

>>396020
1. Trump (worse than hitler)
2. hitler
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 No.400917

File: 1627227501384.jpg ( 80.45 KB , 645x773 , dark-wojak-night.jpg )

>>396020
Initially I'd be overwhelmed by the responsibility and frantically seek to educate myself before deciding. I'd come to appreciate the strange imposition that now demands I dedicate my life to it.
Every waking moment must be dedicated to the crushing task of preparing for that final decision. A decision that I'd never get to enjoy or suffer because… The universe has imposed upon me a task so much bigger than myself that every moment it's not attended is a moment squandered. Therefore I must live every moment in dedication to the task and preservation of myself lest I die before formulating an answer.

I'd wonder if it even matters for my timeline. How would I know it came into effect? Would I, after a life of study I'd be left wondering if it wasn't all a delusion?

Then, I'd be consumed by the possibility of inadvertently erasing myself from history or altering my development so badly that the person I am changes completely. Would I, the new me, then make a different decision further altering history for the next loop? Surely the only way to prevent recursion is that whatever decision is made, erases myself from the future.

Why would I be chosen for this? It makes no sense! Is my suffering the point!?

Ultimately, a few years in , on a clear night I'd forgo my confinement and find a place to watch the skies. I'd stare the universe in it's cold blazing eyes and choose my own two parents.

Fuck your task! Fuck your game! And fuck you rules!

I CHOOSE OBLIVION
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 No.402557

>>400584
>They never seemed to notice this and neither have most marxists.
Are you joking? This was one of the key debates between the Mensheviks and the Bolsheviks and is also the entire basis of Trotsky's Permanent Revolution theory. This was unironically one of the most important and substantive debates of 20th century Marxism.
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 No.402571

>>402557
In fact, the Politburo's insistence on "two-stage" revolutionary theory, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary (including in their own fucking home country) was Trotsky's second biggest criticism of Stalin, after Socialism in One Country. I'm genuinely baffled that you think this is something that doesn't come up in Marxist circles; Marxists of a million different tendencies have made this observation and their conclusions have ranged from "The October Revolution was a bourgeois revolution from the start" (leftcoms) to "Marx was wrong about the peasants altogether and an industrial working class is not required for communist revolution" (Maoists).


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 No.401139[Reply]

It seems like Marxism-Leninism is being popular and successful in many parties that are not explicitly communist. Yes, the Communist Party of China exists, but look at other countries. MAS in Bolivia, Free Peru in Peru, the Socialist Party of South Africa….All of these seem to be Marxist-Leninists that name their parties either socialist or some other populist concoction of a name. Is there an advantage to doing this? Should this be the path for the US? I remember a debate between two MLs recently and it was over whether to forge ahead in the CPUSA or to run in the People's Party. It seems like the winning model might vary between countries, but
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 No.402109

>>402030
Retard lumpen who only will archieve been thrown to jail.
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 No.402163

Yeah honestly tell me when Free Peru's program has been started to be implemented.
I've gotten very cynical about shit like this.
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 No.402292

>>402163
Expect Correa results. Since the party doesn't have a majority in parlament and has the Fujimori's constitution bag.
The spirit is there, but there is so much one can do.
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 No.402303

Frankly, there is so much one party can do without having all the power (in practice).
If not check what the communist party of Moldova did when it was elected.
Or the Nepalese are doing
Or the Kerala communists
I could count the Crypus communists but they are eurocommunists so they frankly don't count.
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 No.402566

>>401139
>MAS in Bolivia, Free Peru in Peru, the Socialist Party of South Africa….All of these seem to be Marxist-Leninists that name their parties either socialist or some other populist concoction of a name. Is there an advantage to doing this?
I don't think MAS calls itself Leninist, Free Peru calls itself Leninist but they seem to be socdem/demsoc in practice, and I don't know anything about that South African Socialist Party. I don't consider any party to be a "true" Marxist-Leninist party if they take power through electoralism instead of revolution. Not that I think that's necessarily a bad thing, but I don't think we should be slapping a "Marxist-Leninist" label on everything either.
>Should this be the path for the US? I remember a debate between two MLs recently and it was over whether to forge ahead in the CPUSA or to run in the People's Party.
Third parties have been a dead end in the United States for decades. My thought would be to create a "pseudo-party" that acts like an independent party but runs candidates as Democrats to get elected. Kind of like DSA but with greater means of holding elected members accountable.


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 No.402370[Reply]

What are chinese african relations like? I'm asking this because Africans are kind of chinas only allies outside of russia
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 No.402443

>>402437
Elaborate I want you to share some links
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 No.402448

>>402412
I don't mean this as a condemnation, just that they prefer western foreigners if any at all. And its not surprising that they have some level of segregation within the Han population, which is nearly a billion people. After all, most Euro's are pretty much the same, only separated by languages and culture.
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 No.402453

>>402448
Why do they segregate themselves between han and nonhan chinese citizens?
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 No.402467

>>402453
I mean within the Han's themselves. They're a large group of people, so it makes sense that there's a level of culture bias depending on where you're from. Segregation was to strong of a word, my bad.
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 No.402559

>>402467
Shanghai people are all cucks. They fear the Big Dongbei Dong.


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 No.401545[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

This was the first gay pride parade I have witnessed in person (I didn't participate, but I've watched them march for 40 minutes before me), and I would like to share with you my overall analysis.

In terms of participation this was a historical record, since the Fidesz government recently passed a law that bars "homosexual/pedo" education or videos, etc. to be thought (in schools) or broadcast (on TV, radio) "targeted" at those under 18. (Obviously the government's ulterior motive is to paint gays as pedos and vica versa, while using this as their nth fake anti-EU crusade.)

Having witnessed the parade and reading every flag and sign carried, listening to every music that was being pumped out from vans, I have the following assessment to share. Capital city (Budapest) gays (&co.) are overwhelmingly pro-(neo)liberals, for a single reason: they give them crumbs and ultimately meaningless gestures when in opposition or in government.

This leads me to my observations:

1. capital city gays, while good intentioned, literally have no idea how politics and economics in general works. When their preferred parties are in power, severe austerity measures are pushed on the broadest stratum of the population, while they get some mild recognition (allowing male-male couples to adopt, for example). So while they are placated by these symbolic gestures, the majority population gets FUCKED in an economic sense. What follows, quite obviously, is the (hard) right gaining more popularity in the process, and they – as a bonus – receive a political boogeyman (gays) to hate upon, and to push blame onto, allowing the right to escape actual economic policies to be discussed, since "what corrupted >>us<< was the gay lobby, etc."…

2. When the first Gay Pride marches were organized in Hungary's capital (nineties), the participators were waaay more antagonistic and iconoclastic in their endeavour. Some people had dildos on their foreheads, some people used dildos to 'thrust' the "Holy" Bible, some were openly portraying their BDSM costume when marching, and so on. Quite obviously, this all ended up as rage-fuel for the hard right, who used these pictures as "proof" of how "deranged" and "abnormal" these people were. Jump to this exact event, and we see far less people in the gay pride march using such "symbolism" fetishism openly displayPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
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 No.402197

>>402193
again i have been, you seem impaired as soon as anti immigration is brought up
a typical reddit move
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 No.402200

>>402197
Once again, I must remind you that you are at liberty to present a concrete argument at your choosing.
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 No.402203

Once again i have been, you seem impaired as soon as anti immigration is brought up
a typical reddit move
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 No.402204

I am brought back here to give you yet another reminder that you can start arguing any time.
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 No.402207

Moved to >>>/b/114509.


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 No.401929[Reply]

What do you think should be done with the homeless people living in California? Some of them are forced into destitution by capital or mental illness but a lot of them aren't. What should be done about lifestyle-vagrantism?
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 No.402042

Commie blocks are comfy if well maintained.
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 No.402051

>>401966
why is middle host such a fucking cunt?
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 No.402057

By building more homes to drive down demand and hence prices
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 No.402063

>>402021
homeless populations also often include parts of the reserve army of labor, the reality is that working class, reserve army, and lumpen are all fluid categories than an individual is likely to move in and out of their lifetime. Marxist Feminists have also spent some time arguing that unwaged housework is just as crucial to the reproduction of the working class as that of wage labour and should therefore be considered an element of it - I find attempts to write off entire segments of the population as 'not a worker' as extremely dishonest is my point.
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 No.402122

>>402063
You have a point, but I think there's a pretty unmistakable and not totally insignificant portion of the population who neither engage in productive labor nor have any interest in doing so.
I do think Marx was arguably too harsh with his concept of lumpens, and Engels is actually generally the better analyst. His view was much closer yours i.e., he emphasized that the lumpenproletariat were still broadly proles, they just less class conscious/respectable proles.


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 No.399672[Reply]

Were they right? Do people have an inherent distrust/dislike of postmodernism because it has a tendency to shatter their idealism (there really is no objective truth or morality, etc,.)?
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 No.400328

>>400302
>When Foucault says, that there is no eternal scientific truth,
There is very little eternal scientific truth in an absolute sense. We have a big scientific body of knowledge which is true but only to a certain degree of precision, and if you are nit picky than that is technically not objective. However given the enormous size of our scientific general intellect, chances are that at least some of the stuff we figured out absolutely nails it and is objectively true.

>he means that discourse is based on historical and social conditions and the argument could be made that under those conditions, it is objective.

If you define objective conditional to anything other than the physical reality, you are indeed saying that everything is "subjective."

You and I have used "Subjective" in the wordsense that it means personal experience. That is still idealist, for a proper materialist take "subjective" relates to social relations like being the subject under a King or being the subject of a legal system. In our present condition "subjective" means subordination to bourgeois legal categories. For example the bourgeois subject is an agent that buys and sells commodities on a market.

Foucault doesn't really doubt the ability of the scientific method to produce objective knowledge that transcends historic and social conditions, but Foucault's material conditions put his academic discipline into competition with hard sciences. That has motivated him to play to game of "disciplinary imperialism"
<My field of expertise encompasses your field of expertise
You have to filter that out. If you try to read these people you have to do it through a materialist lens.
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 No.400348

Postmodernism is a form of idealism. It's a reflection of how the bourgeoisie turned away from the materialism of Hobbes and Diderot into solipsism.
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 No.401264

>>400328
His point was that "scientific truth" doesn't exist outside of us; that is, that our intellectual body of knowledge is local, and that you could do perfectly good science and still be wrong about reality. The "hard science" description is more ideology than anything else, an attempt to justify certain bodies of knowledge over other ones. Is biology a "hard science" or not, because the influence of ideology on biology is well known by now,

The way we treat science in the mainstream is a symptom of our ideology though. The observation that science can be flawed is not a new one or philosophically interesting. Postmodernism makes it seem "edgy" only because science was deified into something it was not by the religion of science types, the positivists. The failures of science, and how science can lead to wrong results, has been known for as long as science was known as science. What postmodernism is really going for is something different, for all the things I said earlier - it's a way of coping with the rise of fascism while obscuring the actual question fascism posed for humanity, because there was a total unwillingness to challenge eugenics in the academy.
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 No.401392

>>401264
Foucault's biopolitics is treated as something new and novel, but the biopolitical theory was proposed in the same time that eugenics rose as a political force. Fascism would be unintelligible if its adherents did not subscribe to biopolitics and the concept of power over life. That's not exactly new - the liberal and capitalist order was from the outset proposing power over life and its processes, while prior orders proposed the state's power to deal death as what legitimized it.
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 No.402037

>>399807

>Communism would have eliminated foucault and all other bobo degenerates.


Yes.


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 No.393980[Reply]

I have for a while known that it was only a matter of time before this happens.

About 5 days ago, protests broke out in the Iranian Arab province of khuzestan. Itan has been hit by an extreme drought that has hit Khuzestan rspecially hard and combined with constant power outages, poor water rationing and a covid situation that is not improving, people have been pushed to the breaking point.

While the Protests were localized to Khuzestan and initially only demanding basic necessities, only 3 days later they have spread into numerous Iranian cities including Tehran and demands have quickly turned into anti government slogans. People are now no longer demanding water but calling for the abolition of the Islamic republic and resignation of the supreme leader. The current president is a hardliner who won the vote amids the lowest turnout in the country's history due to the fact that most of the population boycotted the elections in protest.

Today the slogans have become outright blasphemous and militant. All over Tehran you could hear "Death to Khamenei" and "ditch the Quran,long live Iran"

Police opened fire yesterday, and in retaliation citizens shot dead two police officers. 5 protesters have been killed so far and a tank that had been brought to block the road has been set on fire. Fires and skirmishes with police rage across numerous cities. People in Khuzestan have hoisted the arab separatist flag of Ahvaz. Some protesters can be seen carrying Iranian flags with the islamic emblem cut out. The government has shut down internet in the country.

It's important to remember that /leftypol/ and leftistsbin general have no horses in this race. This is a conflict between liberals and religious fundamentalists. Unlike Cuba these appear to be organic grassroots protests. There is very little evidence that these are US orchestrated even though they likely have their blessing. There are no US flags or pro US slogans, and western media is completely silent on the protests as of now. Most people are unaware of them. This is an infight between reactionaries, so please refeain from shitting up the thread with side taking.

This might or might not be a happening, but this thread is for following the situation and posting updates as well as discussion.
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 No.401849

>>400359
I don't believe a liberal Iran would instantly turn pro-US. Iranian people seem to dislike the US too much to make that feasible. Even so, if you admit it makes the fight easier for Iranian socialists, then it does bring socialism closer. If I were Iranian, I would find it ridiculous to be told I should not fight to bring down a religious dictatorship simply because it is inconvenient for some international game of chess
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 No.401863

>>401141
>if a liberal regime comes to power these policies would undoubtedly continue.
>>401141
>Think materially not realistically
Ah, yes, that's why the U.S. is sabotaging, sanctioning, because Iran will be the same no matter who.
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 No.401870

File: 1627251437122.jpg ( 126 KB , 561x370 , The More You Know.jpg )

>>401254
>DIRECT-DEMOCRACY
By which you of course mean "actual democracy". You have imbibed a lot of propaganda, anon. It's okay, it's never too late to get educated. Democracy has two critical components: citizen involvement in decision-making and government officials selected by random lot. Elections, on the other hand, are an oligarchic tool that always selects for the better off in society to "represent" the worse off even before a single vote is cast. The Romans and Spartans both elected their leaders and yet they never claimed to be democracies. The fiction of equating elections with democracy was an invention by 18th century aristocrats attempting to appeal to populist sentiment without actual empowering the populace.
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 No.401875

>>401142
Despite the OP being a disgusting ziokike who should be purged during the Ba'ath reconquest, he is right, Iranians are as much of an enemy and occupier of our people as the ziokikes and the turks, all of them are sides of the same coin, FREEDOM FOR AHWAZ
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 No.401876

>>393980
My wish is for communists to take over the country but that's not gonna happen is it?


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 No.399571[Reply]

These books will change your life. Read them.

<1. Capital, Vol. I | Karl Marx

The classpill. Discover the extent to how the bourgeosie exploit you. NOTE: I wouldn't recommend reading it in its entirety as Marx was a shit writer and Capital is completely disorganized. Perhaps pick up the David Harvey companion book and jump around with Capital as if it was a textbook. Also, don't bother with Vols. II and III, those are just for the autists.

<2. The Unique and Its Property | Marx Stirner

The egopill. Eliminate your spooks, be your Unique. Or, in layman's terms, be gay and do crime.

<3. The Society of the Spectacle | Guy Debord

The situationistpill. The book examines the “Spectacle,” Debord’s term for the everyday manifestation of capitalist-driven phenomena; advertising, television, film, and celebrity. Everything about capitalist society starts to make much more sense after reading this.

<4. Capitalist Realism | Mark Fischer

The doomerpill. Or, as I like to call it, the realistpill. From wikipedia because I got lazy:

"According to Fisher, capitalist realism has so captured public thought that the idea of anti-capitalism no longer acts as the antithesis to capitalism. Instead, it is deployed as a means for reinforcing capitalism. This is done through media which aims to provide a safe means of consuming anti-capitalist ideas without actually challenging the system. The lack of coherent alternatives, as presented through the lens of capitalist realism, leads many anti-capitalist movements to cease targeting the end of capitalism, but instead to mitigate its worst effects, often through individual consumption-based activities such as Product Red.[3]"
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
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 No.401637

>>401342
almost died of laughter
fuckin trots
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 No.401653

File: 1627247345682.png ( 139.45 KB , 800x450 , ClipboardImage.png )

>>399571
> The Society of the Spectacle
like 60-70% of this was gibberish to me and i read capital
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 No.401757

>>399571
I have read all of these. Capital and The Ego and Its Own are worth reading, Society of the Spectacle is prose poetry with a few valuable insights but it's hardly a rigorous work of theory. Capitalist Realism is a suicidal man bitching about psychiatry (so not worth reading). Desert is hilariously bad. Read it for a laugh readdesert.org. If you are intelligent you'll read all of these and become a marxist. If you're an idiot you'll read all of them and become OP.
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 No.401761

>>399577
sage for doublepost but I didn't see this until after my previous post. I also read this because one of my anarchist friends became a taoist. It's literally the dumbest book I've ever read. Pure sophistry.
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 No.401860

>>401761
t. not one with the Tao


File: 1626010412958.jpg ( 40.18 KB , 675x900 , GeorgeBataille.jpg )

 No.369450[Reply]

Just read the first volume of his most well known work (The Accursed Share) and honestly i can sorta see why people view him as similar to land in some of his [Economic] views.

The way he describes the functioning of capitalism both in an esoteric way but also in a systemic way. His descriptions of capital expansion as extension being caused by pressure within the capitalist system like a machine filling up with steam, Capitalist opulence and excess and failed capitalist enterprise / the wealth and resources squandered arbitrarily as a release valve for the system (Capital descruction), Wars in the imperialist, inter-power and civil sense as a result of capitalisms tendency to expand butting up against unconquerable GeoPolitical, Geographic and ecological limits. With the solution being the taming of this wasted surplus and with it the closing of the release valve rapid, prolonged and Accelerating expansion of capital towards final ecological and geographic barriers.

The only real systems that could possibly do this would be Socialism or Lands Corporate city state bullshit.

Either way i think he's definitely a foreunner to land and the entire /acc trend.
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 No.400927

>>396323
Doesn't schizophrenia have a negative correlation with high intelligence? (Although a rather minor one?)
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 No.401007

More
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 No.401033

What exactly is base materialism? What's the deal with his views on what fascism is?
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 No.401066

>>391501
You got his sloppy seconds 10 years after they separated
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 No.401635

I'd love entire historiographies written like the accursed share


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