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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1627245027750.png ( 515.24 KB , 634x473 , GP_Budapest_2021.png )

 No.401545[View All]

This was the first gay pride parade I have witnessed in person (I didn't participate, but I've watched them march for 40 minutes before me), and I would like to share with you my overall analysis.

In terms of participation this was a historical record, since the Fidesz government recently passed a law that bars "homosexual/pedo" education or videos, etc. to be thought (in schools) or broadcast (on TV, radio) "targeted" at those under 18. (Obviously the government's ulterior motive is to paint gays as pedos and vica versa, while using this as their nth fake anti-EU crusade.)

Having witnessed the parade and reading every flag and sign carried, listening to every music that was being pumped out from vans, I have the following assessment to share. Capital city (Budapest) gays (&co.) are overwhelmingly pro-(neo)liberals, for a single reason: they give them crumbs and ultimately meaningless gestures when in opposition or in government.

This leads me to my observations:

1. capital city gays, while good intentioned, literally have no idea how politics and economics in general works. When their preferred parties are in power, severe austerity measures are pushed on the broadest stratum of the population, while they get some mild recognition (allowing male-male couples to adopt, for example). So while they are placated by these symbolic gestures, the majority population gets FUCKED in an economic sense. What follows, quite obviously, is the (hard) right gaining more popularity in the process, and they – as a bonus – receive a political boogeyman (gays) to hate upon, and to push blame onto, allowing the right to escape actual economic policies to be discussed, since "what corrupted >>us<< was the gay lobby, etc."…

2. When the first Gay Pride marches were organized in Hungary's capital (nineties), the participators were waaay more antagonistic and iconoclastic in their endeavour. Some people had dildos on their foreheads, some people used dildos to 'thrust' the "Holy" Bible, some were openly portraying their BDSM costume when marching, and so on. Quite obviously, this all ended up as rage-fuel for the hard right, who used these pictures as "proof" of how "deranged" and "abnormal" these people were. Jump to this exact event, and we see far less people in the gay pride march using such "symbolism" fetishism openly displayed. If you ask me, my approximation is that out of a 100 protesters 10 were openly "narcissistic/fetishistic/over-sexualized" in the 90's, while today the proportion dropped to like 1 protester out of 1000…

2.1. Still, this literally doesn't matter from the extreme right's POV, because they have their photographers on scene, and they will always focus on and publish the ""most degenerate"" participants, regardless of proportions. While I saw like 30 (or so) buckle-up naked male gays out of… 2k protesters, the right-wing's media coverage will focus on "that" minority, emphasizing how they are "corrupting the children" and so on.

3. From (2.) & (2.1.) I wonder about the actual political and organizational ideology of the official organizers of this parade. My impression is that they literally don't care about "optics". For sure, they made progress, regarding being less and less anti-"""normalcy""" (in Hungarian standards), but they don't have a central leadership that could openly declare, for example: "BDSM/Furry shit is not allowed. You can have your OWN and SEPARATE events if you'd like, but don't taint our march with your FETISH, because being gay/lesbian/bisexual ISN'T ONE!"

4. I was able to speak with a pub-going company of 6 gay dudes, 2 weeks before this march happened. I talked to them about the economic fact that Hungary's participation in the EU is a net loss to this country's economy (meaning: we get less in EU funds than how much profit the international [mainly GER, FRA] companies get out from the country in profits) and their response was a blasé "well, idgaf" style of response. Sadly, these people have completely swallowed the "EU is pro-gay, while Hungary is anti-gay" pill, and therefore they uncritically support the former, disregarding what is said in (1.).

5. As you could see from the above the "capital city vs. rest of the country" dichotomy is really obviously detectable. For an average LGBT person in a rural area in our country their "number one problem" isn't about "not being socially accepted," but them working on starvation wages. The capital city LGBT shit is literally the "revolt of the middle-to-upper-middle-class" who couldn't give a single fucking shit about the ECONOMIC perspectives of a gay dude living in a village of 50 people.

6. And possibly most importantly, there is a LEGITIMATE feeling among the broad populace that this (forgive me) "LGBT SHIT" is "being imported from the outside," which goes to ALL ex-socialist countries, since it is literally what fucking happened. Sure, you can criticize ex-AES [Actually Existing Socialism] countries all you want for their positions on LGBT [btw, counter examples: Cuba, GDR, China], but you can NOT excuse them for copy-pasting the anglo-saxon model of LGBT shit and forcing it on the population, via foreign NGO's. If you didn't figure this out yet: most "Eastern-European" ex-soc countries have a population that suffered deeply from the injustices of the regime change, moving these countries from socialism to capitalism, and most of them view this as an example of "foreign interference" (which is, to an extent, justified – e.g. Viktor Orbán, and several Fidesz members literally participated in a George Soros funded education in the West).

7. Finally, to speak openly as a communist, what we see here is the problem of a legitimate movement (LGBT) due to their inability to acclimatize to the conditions on the ground. Speeches about (abstract) "human rights" and how we should meet those expectations, are for morons. Every communist knows that you should start on the ground with what you have, and NOT with something defined and implemented 3000 miles away. To make my country, Hungary, a pro-LGBT one, you need to reinvent not just social discourse as such, not just the structure of the media apparatus, but the very culture the "normies" will listen to.

I'm ready to answer your questions and respond to your criticisms.

P.s. the fact that the ongoing Olympics now allows "M2F transpeople" to participate brings the conservative governments on the side of actual feminism and scientific facts. If you, as a "lefty" don't wish to address this, you are hopeless.
185 posts and 39 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
>>

 No.401932

>>401931
social liberalism is used by the ruling class to distract from class issues
>>

 No.401933

>>401932
Indeed.
>>

 No.401936

>>401932
There's a unity of opposites between social liberalism and Orban-style conservatism. They are opposed but also depend on each other in a dialectical contradiction.
>>

 No.401938

>>401936
not really.
>>

 No.401942

>>401927
>troll points: 1/10
Orbán is not anti-EU. Maybe train your reading comprehension.
>>

 No.401948

File: 1627253733378.png ( 712.5 KB , 1080x1971 , Screenshot_20210725-185309….png )

Look how all the top western news outlets celebrate and cheer on these organic protest against the leader who continues to have a friendship with the barbaric china who is killing innocents.

I'm sure they don't want to use protest for something suspicious! They just are giving it coverage because it's wholesome innocent protest and they western media loves supporting that!
>>

 No.401954

File: 1627253848113-0.png ( 580.75 KB , 1080x1921 , Screenshot_20210725-185607….png )

File: 1627253848113-1.png ( 625.44 KB , 1080x1942 , Screenshot_20210725-185624….png )

>>401948
So organic! You'd be crazy to think there is ulterior motive!
>>

 No.401959

>>401931
>I know, the OP you made is pretty much perfect. But the same can be said about the feminism thingy
You have literally no fucking idea what you are talking about. The AES system was way more feministic than anything came or may come after it.

>Of course, a prole gay is going to be more opressed than a gay sub-urbanite with some house at the centre, but that comes from their class situation, not their sexual orientation.

Completely besides the point. Gay Pride Budapest (our capital city) "represents" like 20% of the total gay population, whose problems are merely that they are legally not recognized. Move to the rest of the 80% of gayfags, and their no.1 problem is that they are starving.

CURIOUS

>this doesn't mean that people won't beat you up if you're gay

Try being gay in the multinational capital, and try being the same in a fucking village. Guess which is more detrimental to your health?!

>Gay proles have the problem of being a prole at the same time of having the problems of being gay

You are intentionally leaving beside the point I raised, namely that capital city dwelling gay tend to be managerial stratum: >>401831

>a non-gay capital inhabitant will also get 10-20 times the wages of a regular village dwelling gay.

Factually incorrect. A "regular" person living in the capital will want to have kids, and will reproduce, and therefore will have WAY lover level of sustenance. Imagine if 2 gay dudes lived together in the capital: it's not just that their combined wages will be way over the national average, it's not just that they will receive higher wages as males, but also that they are living in the capital, working for multi-nat companies for above-average wages. I'm not advocating here for a kind of gay vs. straight war. I'm merely stating statistical facts (see above).

>cause everyone in Africa is starving be it gay or non-gay

A completely different (albeit valid) topic altogether.

>if you defend pro-gay rights

As a communist I oppose "rights" as such. Maybe re-read Marx's critique of Gotha.
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 No.401960

File: 1627254153836-0.jpeg ( 92.59 KB , 800x554 , 71iSGS8EDqQ8Cu8ws.jpeg )

File: 1627254153836-1.png ( 442.92 KB , 743x716 , 593859834059.png )

>>401956
>>

 No.401961

>>401956
>Going full racist.
>Not including gypsies on the racist mix.
I can smell the burgers you're eating from here.
Can you share? I'm hungry.
>>

 No.401962

>>401949 (You)
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 No.401963

File: 1627254227759.png ( 1.19 MB , 1280x800 , A1p DoigM8L.png )

>>

 No.401964

>>401887
Falseflagger=/= lpol
>>

 No.401975

File: 1627254931288-0.jpg ( 53.73 KB , 530x354 , hungary slums (1).jpg )

File: 1627254931288-1.jpg ( 167.73 KB , 1280x720 , hungary slums (3).jpg )

File: 1627254931288-2.jpg ( 155.41 KB , 1200x801 , hungary slums (4).jpg )

File: 1627254931288-3.jpg ( 221.93 KB , 750x500 , hungary slums (7).jpg )

Reminder that Hungary has massive poverty, but you will never hear about it because they are the "free world".
>>

 No.401985

>>401977
I never said it didn't fall. But it is still higher than the EU average, I think at least 2 to 5 times the average (depends on the indicators used).
>selective
lol, no go in google street view and simply go through the poorest regions and see all the slums.
Those pictures were taken from google, that on one hand, they hide the results, on the other hand, you can search in Yandex duckgogo or Baidu and you will find more and unique views hidden from google-western users.
>>

 No.401987

>>401605
This post is glowing like a mfer
>>

 No.401991

>>401977
oh wow look at the based nationalist capitalist economy, i think we need to change the site to rightypol and finally accept that socialism is btfo by hungarys incredible success
what a beautiful nation
>>

 No.402000

>>401996
>You: posting articles from the 1980s about conditions in Cuba in the 1960s
>"Look at all this stuff I found!!!"
<Everyone else: This is really relevant to our lives, thank you
>>

 No.402006

>>402000
The article isn't about Cubas living conditions in any time. It's about the HIV sanitariums that I think that poster didn't know existed
>>

 No.402013

>>401605
Fidel asked for forgiveness about this shit. Where was McCarthy until his death? Joying and cheering the anti-gay right.
>>

 No.402014

>>402006
Well, sure, but I don't know what point is going on here. Being gay in the 1980s anywhere in the world was not a super fun time. Look at the United States. Either way, I can promise you that a good number of our friends from /pol/ would immediately lock their windows if they were driving through downtown Havana and looked out the window, even though the country is very safe by U.S. standards.
>>

 No.402027

>>401948
>>401954
Welp. I despise Orban and their band of neoliberals but objectively speaking, they should prepare for a colour revolution there.

About the OP, it is important to know how Idpol works, and how Brussels and Co. will use it to implant that Eurolovingchip in nations being simply raped by their imperialism. Interesting nontheless.
>>

 No.402035

>>401996
Cuba used to have backward ideas of gays, oh God, societies are 100 percent not subject to any evolution or development. Societies are just Elvish society where nothing changes for thousands of years. Great materialist analysis.
>>

 No.402038

>>401977
>Muh statistics
Son, can you go through in detail what the statistics you shat out state and don’t state?
>>

 No.402043

File: 1627258447020.png ( 167.86 KB , 946x301 , 8e9d6128b5c035be5bf7a28e03….png )

>>401938
Yes really.
>>

 No.402055

File: 1627259059433.jpg ( 89.83 KB , 1080x806 , IMG_20210726_013024.jpg )

>>401959
>You have literally no fucking idea what you are talking about. The AES system was way more feministic than anything came or may come after it.
Indeed, haven't declared either.

>Completely besides the point. Gay Pride Budapest (our capital city) "represents" like 20% of the total gay population, whose problems are merely that they are legally not recognized. Move to the rest of the 80% of gayfags, and their no.1 problem is that they are starving.

Now that I've noticed, you haven't said shit, not even mentioned the word "prole" or worker. As said, that problem doesn't come from them being gay, but from their class, and even then, pretty much assuming every gay who lives in budapest is a managerial class porky. Also, does Hungary not have a minimun wage or something?

>Try being gay in the multinational capital, and try being the same in a fucking village. Guess which is more detrimental to your health?!

Indeed, smaller towns tend to be more conservative/reactionary, and they could always migrate to the capital and try to find a better paying job there, that's one of capitalism features, and if bankrupt farmers could do it, these people can as well. And even then, moving to the capital means that you will have a job and live in a poor neighborhood.

>You are intentionally leaving beside the point I raised, namely that capital city dwelling gay tend to be managerial stratum: >>401831

I have been searching through the data, and firstly, I would like to add that the studies were made with the presumption that were talking about couples. Of course gay (note, between a man and a man) makes more money than a heterosexual couple, as men get more money than women cause of dysparital salary or directly not working. To put an example, pic related: a gay man (all of this inside of a couple btw), on average, gets 11,70£ (per hour I suppose), a straight man, 10,70£, a lesbian woman, 10,10£, and a straight woman 7,60£ (btw the study was on britain). So this said, 11,70/10,70=1.09, (1.09-1)x100=9%. Gay men recieve 9% more than straight men. Of course, you might ass that heterosexual women get 7,60 cause they might be having a partial time job cause children and so on
But eitherway, i want to ask a question? Why is it that gays have double the degrees of heterosexual men? Well, as said on the study, gay men tend to have about the double university degrees (in fact, more than double, 36%) than straight men (16%), and of course these gives them the opportunity to access higher paying jobs.
The question here would be, how come that gay people get double the diplomas than straight people? You can't say that it is because their families have more money, cause this is a study from the UK. To put into comparison, an university dregree in the US costs about 5000 dollars at the very least amount of money (and it only goes up from there, 4x5000=20000 $), in the UK, it's 9200£ for the full package, and if you're scottish and want to study in Scotland it is about 500£ or so. And also, of note. I will add that before 1998, there was no fee to get into a british university, just your grades (pls some brit correct me if I'm wrong). Which also gets to another point, the studies which the article cites are were derive from the year 2005 which, considering that the fee came 7 years before, at that point the first ones to pay the tuition would have had to spend 4 years studying and from there try to get a high-paying job, as you may expect, these were talking about the classes of 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001 and that's about it when talking about the classes that would have had to pay for fees, everyone else having gone free, thus, less argument about gays coming from rich families, thus, these people studied university could come from any family. Of course, it might be that a family NEEDS a guy to work just as he completes highschool, but those instances are rare on the first world.
Thus, gays don't come from wealthier families, but they do study more and get more degrees than heterosexual men, why is it?
Btw, it also says on the article:
<A person who, due to choice or circumstances, has no offspring, depends for their day to day existence on the offspring of others. It may appear that by saving for their old age they have provided for themselves. But this is a monetary illusion. You do not save for your old age by putting cans of beans and sacks of flour in a cellar to sustain you; instead you rely on freshly produced food, clothes etc, produced by the labour of the generation that follows you.
<The unpaid labour of raising children, labour predominantly done by mothers, is socially essential and all the current generation, whether they have children themselves or not, benefit indirectly from it. Gay activists are wont to identify their campaigns with campaigns against women’s oppression, but the economic analysis so far shows that this concept is fallacious. Not only are gay couples financially better off, they also, in the main, often opt out of the socially necessary unpaid labour that is at the root of the disadvantaged position of women/wives (by… not being able no have children).
Don't know what to say about this one chief.

>As a communist I oppose "rights" as such. Maybe re-read Marx's critique of Gotha.

Oh ffs go suck a cock, it's a manner of spech, sorry for not making self critique about my way of speaking to always be 100% correct with marxist literature. I shall now go out to the woods with all of my marxism books as a communist monk in order to purify the capitalist-liberal tendencies and way of speech that everyone has because of living in a society. I'm truly sorry.
>>

 No.402058

>>402055
Btw gonna go to sleep, and also wrote all of this while phoneposting, I hope you're proud.
>>

 No.402075

>>402043
not really
>>

 No.402079

>>401977
bullshit, Central and Eastern Europe is so cucked to the major EU nations that they have no room to speak about being some kind of alternative to anything. they'd collapse overnight like DPRK did after 1991.
>>

 No.402086

>>402079
poland and hungry are pretty based
>>

 No.402097

>>401645
>NOT!

The early 90's called, they want their verbal tics back
>>

 No.402101

>>402086
in what way? poles especially seem pretty cucked, both their libs and nationalists
>>

 No.402139

>>402101
they're pretty anti EU anti immigration
>>

 No.402146

>>401624
In a Spenglerian dialectical analysis this will destroy socialist civilization. I’m
>>

 No.402151

>>402139
okay anti-EU is based, but please don't tell me you're about to post your epic podcast of "right wing Nietzchean Socialism"
>>

 No.402158

>>402155
Please go back
>>

 No.402159

>>402151
do you have a better response? not sure if you're coping for if that's just low effort shitpost
>>

 No.402160

>>402151
I'm kinda hoping for another Night of the Long Knives which massacres a bunch of those people and then the bloodied survivors escape in a boat which capsizes and then they wash up on our shore and look up at us, and they see us standing there looking at them and there's a blindingly bright hammer and sickle in the sky above our heads. We then clean them up, start brainwashing them into our ideology, etc.

>>402155

You need to go back.
>>

 No.402169

File: 1627263134879.png ( 159.46 KB , 680x680 , poljak-cucked.png )

>>402155
maybe you wouldn't worry about "sandn!ggers" if you weren't cucked to use your taxes to start wars in the ME
Gee, wonder who could behind this post.
>>

 No.402174

>>402169
triggered
>>

 No.402180

>>402174
You're free to start actually arguing any time
>>

 No.402182

>>402180
I have been, you seem impaired as soon as anti immigration is brought up
a typical reddit move
>>

 No.402193

>>402182
Again, feel free to present an argument whenever you wish to.
>>

 No.402197

>>402193
again i have been, you seem impaired as soon as anti immigration is brought up
a typical reddit move
>>

 No.402200

>>402197
Once again, I must remind you that you are at liberty to present a concrete argument at your choosing.
>>

 No.402203

Once again i have been, you seem impaired as soon as anti immigration is brought up
a typical reddit move
>>

 No.402204

I am brought back here to give you yet another reminder that you can start arguing any time.
>>

 No.402207

Moved to >>>/b/114509.

Unique IPs: 21

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