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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1627566096889-1.jpg ( 93.08 KB , 700x400 , a.JPG )

 No.409074[View All]

What do you guys think about censorship? Particularly those done by seemingly "authoritarian" regimes like China and North Korea and to a lesser extent Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand, Cambodia, and Russia? Are they beneficial? Does that enhance a country's online security? Or is it something that bis more like taking the bluepill by the fact that you can't access to different viewpoints, instead just seeing the same "I'M RIGHT, YOU'RE WRONG" mentality by the government?
72 posts and 4 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.409354

>>409349
They tried, and they tried hard, they have been trying hard for over 60 years.
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 No.409445

>>409349
I am almost certain that the Arab Spring, Euromaidan, Hong Kong, Iranian, and Belarusian Protests were either created or intensified by CIA botnets. As time goes on, Porky intelligence agencies get better at using social media for agitation against regimes that they don't like.
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 No.409449

File: 1627586283725.jpeg ( 204.54 KB , 1196x2764 , reddit afghanistan censor….jpeg )

>>409445
Forgot to mention that its not just intelligence agencies. Private companies work in tandem with the government to protect capital. Anti-communist Gusano groups and think-tanks likely rented out a botnet to aid their CIA friends in toppling Castro.
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 No.409493

File: 1627588943347.png ( 240.39 KB , 757x3030 , xkcd-freedom-3.png )


It ows my fucking ballls off how anyone on the left can oppose free speech when they're the ones who need it the most. Anyone who believes in censorship is insecure in their beliefs. All information should be free and should be treated as equal in just the same way that all software should be libre and all art should be considered sacred. Human expression must be limitless if weareto crwate meaning im this life and avoid the slow and bleach decay of encroaching nihilism in our societies. When you censor people on the right, all you do is make martyrs of them and create even more reactionary support from regular people who wouldn't normally support fanaticism who are now creating a coalition with the enemies of a free society, and bang, you have fascism. Fascism starts as an action for unlike leftism, fascism is a means of expression of propoganda and not necessarily a socioeconomic system in of itself. While these things exist detached in their own way like Fascist Italy and American Venturecapitalism, they are end results of a country spiraling through fascism as an act for quite some time. In order to combat this, we must weaponize our free speech in unity and stop fucking dickwagging about menial purity spirals about how "Librulz get the Bullet Too." Take advantage of this opportunity while we have it while the right is facing Whig syndrome due to the Republican party's uncertain ongoing election strategy and let them bicker and bitch amongst each other about "muh uyghurs" and "no fauchi ouchi my freedumbz." Your freedom of speech is your destiny. Words how power. Use them wisely. Show those who constantly harangue about how le ebil leftists who are destroying western civilization that you care about the most important Western value there ever was., and always remember to be a good advocate for your cause..
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 No.409496

I think censorship is a tool that should be used minimally if at all.
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 No.409503

>>409493
I don't oppose free speech, I oppose CIA conducting astroturfing operations on social media to try to topple legitimate socialist governments.
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 No.409504

>>409168
>Unity and coherence, freedom of expression divides us
Thats the fascist argument lol
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 No.409513

>>409348
>Newsflash idiots: censorship is never done in your interest
except, you know, that a /leftypol/ would have been impossible to establish but by censoring the rightoids who'd try to to crapflood it. (moreso on 8ch.)
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 No.409521

File: 1627590507908.jpeg ( 140.98 KB , 1478x1242 , covid vaccine propaganda ….jpeg )

Individual freedom of speech and the freedom of press corporations and astroturf marketing companies to do what they want are two different things.
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 No.409531

>>409513
Nice revisionism, censorship is quite literally what killed the growth of the community at a critical period on 8ch.
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 No.409539

>>409531
There's a clear difference between government's censorship (that even the US is guilty of doing) and "muh community censorship" when a bunch of power tripping jannies start deleting shit that triggers them.
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 No.409542

>>409539
Sure, and they both suck.
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 No.409545

>>409531
it's not revisionism. censorship was necessary to create the community. it damaged it greatly in the past, and it is necessary to preserve it to this day.
the question is not "censorship, yes or no" as though that's a binary question. censorship is inevitable - the question is WHO is censored.
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 No.409549

>>409545
let's be patronizing and spell it out: censoring nazis, good. censoring idpol, good. censoring leftists because you don't like them, bad.
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 No.409551

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>>409531
Censorship in general is what killed 8chan. The administration proactively censored all major boards while keeping people like Mark on PAYROLL to do censorious bull ass horseshit like Rule 8 which was made for the sole purpose of deleting anything the mods didn't like which may I remind everyone was completely asteoturfed by mods pretending to be grassroots users because they were mad about Huey shitting in the shower. It was all downhill from there. /pol/ would ban you for 1488 years for slight disagreements with the status quo and the administration went out of their way to actively forlster terror cells there so it could make Q-I-mean Watkins a lot of money. We must learn from the mistakes of the past and realize just how freaking important freedom.of speech is for the continued existence of any surviving post 8ch community, for it was the pivotal force that brought us all together all those years ago, before we turned our backs on one another and our principles after years of revisionism and decay, which is not in whole but in part the fault of the admins but also our very selves. None of us are without sin, we can be better and build something truly amazing.
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 No.409554

>>409549
But you have to ask if everyone considers the same things 'leftist' (they don't)
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 No.409556

>>409080
>>409088
depends, when i was in China it was impossible to find the tank man photo on chinese internet and if you searched for the dali lama the internet connection literally got disconnected for like 5 minutes. i bet my IP got pinged to a Public Security Bureau agent who checked that it was a foreigner who lived there so they left me alone. when i was driving in the chinese city i lived in with a friend he pointed out a giant gray unmarked building he told me that inside at 10 000 people who monitor the local internet and cellphone communications 24/7
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 No.409557

>>409551
Without 'censorship' ie. moderation though, everything is just machine spam. Everything comes to nought.
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 No.409559

>>409556
>a friend he pointed out a giant gray unmarked building he told me that inside at 10 000 people who monitor the local internet and cellphone communications 24/7
That's actually quite impressive.
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 No.409564

>>409551
it was definitely the censorship, not the murders.
the lesson of 8chan is that no imageboard should allow /pol/ on it, which by-definition entails censoring /pol/ retardation.
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 No.409576

I don't equate censorship to moderation. They are both different.

Actively blocking information is never good because it may ruin how people feel about you is absolutely garbage.

Actively blocking child porn, beastiality and things of those nature are fine because it is no one's interest to watch unconsented sexual activities.

If the state is blocking it without letting the citizens know why? That's censorship and that's not good. If they are blocking it because citizens agreed upon it being blocked? That's moderation and that's perfectly fine.
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 No.409578

>>409091
You understand that we arent liberals and we dont care about democracy, right?
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 No.409582

>>409578
>You understand we don’t care about bourgeois democracy
Ftfy
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 No.409583

>>409576
>I don't equate censorship to moderation.

Whether something is censorship, or moderation, pretty much just depends on how you feel about it.
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 No.409585

>>409578
Liberals don't actually care about democracy, perhaps you should rejoin them.
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 No.409586

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>>409564
>it was definitely the censorship, not the murders.
If you want to go all facts and logic mode, there is such thing as cause and effect. If 8ch wasn't rampant with censorship in the first place, it wouldn't have become a far right circlejerk and safe space. If the free market of ideas ahd been present, and the mod team did not evaporate dissenting opinions, /pol/ would not have become the terror cell that it was. I'm not saying that it was the only factor or even the prevailing one, however, censorship is at least partially responsible for those murders.
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 No.409598

>>409556
Weird.
To me, that’s shitty, but I also understand the pragmatic reasons behind it.
It’s not like the U.S. isn’t doing the same thing.
As much as I would like it, the open internet seems like a lost cause because there is 0 incentives for the powers that be around the world to temper their iron grip on it.
Wish it wasn’t so.
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 No.409600

>>409598
Well the US takes a different strategy to China, which is 'manufactured consent'. I generally think the American method is better. Propaganda > bludgeon.
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 No.409603

>>409586
>If the free market of ideas ahd been present
there is no such thing. you may as well say "but if god had been willing to intervene!"
even if /pol/ was incubated by moderators (and i would say that this is true, but not strictly necessary - rightism is better suited to the dynamics of imageboard contrarianism because it has no need to ever try to justify itself as being for the collective good, which even the neoliberal status quo pretends to do.), the fastest way to get rid of it after it was born was to kill it.

to say "censorship was responsible" even in your own description of the circumstances is to step too far back from events: it's akin to saying "guns did the murders" and so swearing off guns as a tool, as though the only possible consequence of having an army would be to also invite massacres by armed criminals because both use guns. pro right censorship did the murders once /pol/ had been birthed, the fastest way to kill it would be with anti-/pol/ censorship, not with a free market of ideas opened up at a point where /pol/ was already strong.* the "market of ideas", like the real market, works best when the someone's standing at the side giving it a kick every so often.
*well, a genuine, spam included free market of ideas would certainly have gotten rid of /pol/, but it would have taken the entire site down with it all the same.
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 No.409611

File: 1627593367105.jpg ( 67.5 KB , 783x767 , 2018-03-25_20-53-29.jpg )

>Part of Reagan’s destabilization effort involved an escalation of the ideological warfare waged by Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty. Between 1982 and 1986, both stations increased the number and sophistication of their foreign-language broadcasts, as well as the number of their listeners. As glasnost reduced and then eliminated jamming in 1988, Radio Liberty reached 22 million Soviet listeners a month. Both stations fomented nationalism, stirred up outrage over the Chernobyl disaster, encouraged opposition to the Soviet war in Afghanistan, provided a platform for pro- market advocates like Yeltsin, and aired unsubstantiated corruption charges against the Party leader, Yegor Ligachev, after he opposed Gorbachev.
Nice freedom you got there.
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 No.409627

>>409600
Kind of hard to tell for me.
I don’t know if the methods of psychological manipulation via propaganda would work the same in the east.
For instance, it may be a double edge sword if it’s so open that even U.S. propaganda can leak in. Hong Kong seems to be a bitter lesson there. There would need to be huge think tanks to counter it. I know there’s a publicity department in China, but they seem more ready to ban rather than create counter propaganda.
Could be wrong though since I’m not an expert on the topic of east vs west propaganda as it relates to the susceptibility of the public.
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 No.409629

>>409582
Read Bordiga…
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 No.409634

>>409603
This.

Cant believe how many people here still believe in the anti-marxist "marketplace of ideas", as if free expression somehow on its own makes good ideas win and bad ideas lose. You always need a censor to remove the bad opinions or the bad stuff will overtake the good stuff simply on the basis of shitty content being easier to produce than quality content.

But at least it reveals all the red-painted liberals on this board.
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 No.409641

>>409634
>channeling Marx while advocating for censorship
Get the fuck out. Marx was a clear defender of freedom of the press and opponent to censorship.
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 No.409651

>>409641
Marx wasn't living in an age where a few standard home computers can flood an unmoderated board with more words than could be published by all the printing presses of the world.
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 No.409654

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File: 1627594936283-1.png ( 103.82 KB , 266x494 , mgs2.PNG )

>"The digital society furthers human flaws and selectively rewards development of convenient half-truths. Just look at the strange juxtapositions of morality around you."

Was Kojima right bruhs?
It looks like
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 No.409914

>>409307
>Can’t believe the utter retardation
Yes, it’s smart to defend the practice of freezing peaches, especially when that means you’re allowing megacorporate-backed media companies, neoliberal mainstream media, and far-right propaganda to INFILTRATE your minds without even knowing.

Censorship is beneficial.

t. OP
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 No.409959

>>409091
>"leftists" who make excuses for censorship are quite simply fascists in red garb
Well, you people always love to scream about DA GABITALIST NATZI FAGGOTS, so what you afraid about? Censorship is not always wrong, which is why sane moderates, centrists and right wingers MUST censor anyone who shows leftists behavioral problem. That is good thinking, because stripping leftists of the right to shit up places works.

Not every site is like 4chan and 8chan, which is why you people can never really take hold on most websites no matter how much you try to copy /pol/. The problem with the right is that they have an almost chronic obsession with values and principles, and when you appeal to said values and principles, you make the right feel doubt. They may feel ashamed about silencing some Chapo fag house nerd, because they feel that would be contradictory to their beliefs. But the instant the GABITALIST NATZI FAGGOT pleads to his value, the leftoid almost takes glee in his suffering.

Historically, people who support free speech have only ever gotten fucked over by people like you. The history of free speech activism is basically a continually lost battle, which conveniently seemed to only happen once leftist speech was no longer being repressed in universities back in the 1960s.

If I have to live in a world with censorship and no free speech. Then yeah, I want to live in the world that censors and restricts free speech on the basis of sanity and civilization, so enemies of civilization, like you, deserve to be censored.
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 No.409978

>>409959
>If I have to live in a world with censorship and no free speech. Then yeah, I want to live in the world that censors and restricts free speech on the basis of sanity and civilization, so enemies of civilization, like you, deserve to be censored.
Thanks for proving:
<"leftists" who make excuses for censorship are quite simply fascists in red garb
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 No.410085

b u m p
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 No.410097

>>409504
>all 'totalitarianism' is fascism
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 No.410101

>>410097
>I cant read
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 No.410121

>>409074
>What do you guys think about censorship?
In theory it works. In practice, you are drawn to the belief that one of the strengths of the Eternal Anglo is that generally they do not censor like others.

>>409074
>Particularly those done by seemingly "authoritarian" regimes like China and North Korea and to a lesser extent Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand, Cambodia, and Russia?

Aside from Indonesia, Thailand, Cambodia, arguably epistemological anti-imperialism.

>>409074

>Are they beneficial?
Never in themselves. They merely remove drawbacks. Censorship is a negative action, not a positive good to be used against rightist propaganda.

>>409074
>Does that enhance a country's online security?
I don't know.

>>409074

>Or is it something that bis more like taking the bluepill by the fact that you can't access to different viewpoints, instead just seeing the same "I'M RIGHT, YOU'RE WRONG" mentality by the government?

At a certain point, you just get tired of having to refute each and every defamation and falsehood peddled by creationists, anti-vaxxers, holocaust-deniers, natural cure quacks that censorship is the more useful option.

<So my response is that censorship, if implemented, should be done with due process and openness. A system of revolutionary courts should investigate each and every particular claim by those accused of peddling lies. These trials would need to be open. Climate change denial, anti-vaxxer idealism, creationism need to be especially scrutinised. Take their fucking servers if they're guilty of defamation of science.
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 No.410600

>>409349
THE CUBAN GOVWRMENT CENCSORA THHIWE FIXKING INTERNET YOU MONGOLOID
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 No.410629

>>409074
Free speech is an absolute necessity and attempts to curtail it should be opposed at all times.That said, (dis)information warfare is very much a real thing and should also be fought against. The two don't conflict unless one is arguing in bad faith trying to conflate them.


I don't see the problem.

ie.
You can ban all gusanos and prohibit US/Porky propaganda without it being a curtailment of free speech.
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 No.411426

You fight disinformation with information. By banning it you simply legitimize it among rebellious people.
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 No.411431

>>411426
That assumes information negates disinformation. It doesn't.

All you are doing is letting the information war be decided by whoever has the most resources and willingness to subvert the other.
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 No.411447

File: 1627672001082.jpg ( 93.46 KB , 526x732 , 5171b220ecad04c044000019.jpg )

"Censorship" and "freedom of speech" exist within a dialectical unity of opposites. Socialist countries wouldn't have censorship if there wasn't a global liberal media hegemony that advocated for western capitalism, western ideology, western imperialism, separatism in various countries, bourgeois compradorism, fake news, etc. etc. etc.

Likewise, to say that "anything goes" on a board full of people talking about communism is a recipe for doom because of right-wing provocateurs who will raid us to disrupt the occasionally semi-productive conversations that we have from time to time in the name of "freedom of speech." Or glowfarms and other bad actors who will spread propaganda which we've seen happen during wider organized political operations.

Censorship should have specific objectives to accomplish, such as eliminating raids and glowfarm disinfo and lurid racist propaganda that you see on /pol/ and so forth. And otherwise protecting the safety of other users by censoring CP and obscene material like that, rather than censoring something that does no harm to our mini lefty posting society that should be encouraged to post content that is (a) fun and (b) mildly informative.
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 No.411448

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>>409504
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 No.411454

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>>411447
Censorship doesn't exist "because right-wingers made me", it exists and will continue to exist, because it is necessary. "Freedom of speech" exists for a reason, (like all freedoms liberals advocate for), that reason being the hypothesis that in a free exchange of ideas, the better and true ones will prevail. This is objectively not true, hence censorship will be necessary. This is even ignoring that "freedom of speech" is merely a guarantee of lack of censorship from the government alone. Which is itself, historically, a lie, on top of sources of censorship coming from other places, like corporations, or literally anyone with more money than you. Stop confusing what is the default and what is the aberration, and accept the Office of the Censor, something you might actually have a say in.

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