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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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 No.402872[View All]

This will destroy everything you thought about growth, de-growth (Malthusianism), and the "alternative economy".

Effectively BTFOs ecologists, an-prims, third worldists, market socialists, and a bunch of other losers and goons.
79 posts and 7 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.406931

>>405289
More retarded strawmanning from the ecomodernist crowd.

Most degrowth ideas revolve around a period of pruning back industrial production and complexity (NOT technology per se) after a future revolutionary transformation. It's a recognition that emissions and waste are getting out of control under contemporary capitalism, but that a future socialist society could control and guide production towards sustainability. No serious eco-socialist is in favor of primitivism or enforcing austerity under capitalism.

The ecomodernist fetishization of capitalist technology and growth is just like Trotskyists fetishizing democracy so much that they become anti-Soviet neoconservatives to own authoritarianism. And what a surprise, there's a whole network of liberal NGOs and pro-business think tanks willing to publish "ecomodernist" texts to own those anti-business commie doomer greens! I'm sure it's just a coincidence too that Leigh Phillips also wrote for Spiked Online, the Trotskyist-turned-libertarian rag beloved for its contrarian hate for the contemporary left.
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 No.407346

File: 1627493162666.png ( 454.15 KB , 1950x1482 , Screen Shot 2021-07-04 at ….png )

>>403543
Can someone please tell me why Third Worldists and indigenous anarchists are so bloody obsessed with metaphysics?

It's like they can't just talk about making conditions better for the working class but have to inject all this bullshit about spirituality, the concept of space, the concept of time, etc.

I remember talking to an anarkid (who was also a grad student) about cities after the revolution, and he started talking about how there should be 'non-Euclidian urban planning.' What the fuck does that mean?

Like, I don't get it at all.
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 No.407351

>>404800
I am shocked, SHOCKED, that a mad anti-environmentalist would intentionally misunderstand the green movement
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 No.407354

>>407346
>I remember talking to an anarkid (who was also a grad student) about cities after the revolution, and he started talking about how there should be 'non-Euclidian urban planning.'
Deleuze and Guattari were a mistake.
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 No.407369

File: 1627494090303.png ( 338.19 KB , 1100x652 , 3d-example-of-euclidean-zo….png )

>>407354
>>407346
>'non-Euclidian urban planning.' What the fuck does that mean?
Basically not like america. If ever been in an old city in europe that's basically it.
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 No.407373

>>406652
Malthusianism is one of those terms that gets turned into a buzzword because certain idiots think it's an "i win the argument" button.
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 No.407392

>>406931
>Most degrowth ideas revolve around a period of pruning back industrial production and complexity (NOT technology per se) after a future revolutionary transformation.
To be honest that is reason enough to reject it. Socialists want to change industrial production to make it compatible with the environment, but just for that change, you would need a big increase in industrial production because you need to build so many new machines to replace the old "dirty" machines. Scaling back production would mean austerity for the masses and less capacity for replacing dirty tech. That is what the neo-liberals want. Don't you find it a little sus that degrowth reaches the same conclusions as the neolibs and proposes virtually the same policies.
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 No.407393

I swear, this video belongs in the Smithsonian.
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 No.407397

>>407392
>Scaling back production would mean austerity for the masses and less capacity for replacing dirty tech

You're going to have to elaborate on this because I haven't seen any degrowers advocating austerity measures. They simply state we need to transition to a more localized and small-scale economy with things like community gardens, co-opts, credit unions and the like.
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 No.407404

>>407397
>I haven't seen any degrowers advocating austerity measures
woah woah woah buddy you actually read about the subject before commenting ??? take a look at this prick
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 No.407406

Malthusianism is just a meme by Dengist apologist and Productivists cucks
>Thought Slime argues that humans have gone too far. The problem isn’t that working people are increasingly impoverished due to capitalism’s inherent creation of poverty amidst plenty, the problem is that average working people have too much stuff. As American workers are seeing their wages go down, their homes foreclosed, and their children condemned to a life of student debt, the problem is that they are still too comfortable
This is directly from Maupin book.
Thought slime is a liberal piece of shit, but maupin here is being a retard too. He intends growth as something monolithic, a straight line, something that in a communist world and a capitalist world will look exactly the same, I understand trickle down economics and delocalization is something that should be criticized but by maupin standards even a critique of consumer society such as the ones Debord or Baudrillard made are malathusianism
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 No.407409

>>407406
>He intends growth as something monolithic, a straight line, something that in a communist world and a capitalist world will look exactly the same, I understand trickle down economics and delocalization is something that should be criticized but by maupin standards even a critique of consumer society such as the ones Debord or Baudrillard made are malathusianism
There's those fucking anarkiddie metaphysics again.
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 No.407416

>>407409
Don't call metaphysics everything you don't understand.
I didn't say anything complicated
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 No.407419

>>407416
You're still invoking metaphysics. How is it useful to the working class in any way for socialists to be discussing whether or not time and human society are linear?
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 No.407422

>>407419
What are you talking about?
I'm just saying that Growth in a communist society is very different than in a capitalist society.
There's nothing metaphysical about it.
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 No.407450

File: 1627497265892.mp4 ( 8.25 MB , 1280x720 , Caleb-thought-slime.mp4 )

>>407406
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 No.407463

>>403543
Am I the only one who actually likes it when Roo makes theory videos?

He should dedicate his channel to that from now on.
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 No.407483

>>407392
>Don't you find it a little sus that degrowth reaches the same conclusions as the neolibs and proposes virtually the same policies.
Don't you find it a little sus that ecomodernists reach the same conclusions as the other neolibs pushing advanced 'green' technology and surveillance capitalism as a solution to climate change?
https://www.wrongkindofgreen.org/2019/01/17/the-manufacturing-of-greta-thunberg-for-consent-the-political-economy-of-the-non-profit-industrial-complex/
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 No.407491

>>407483
I remember going through this entire article series a while back and feeling like I learned almost nothing of substance.

Cory Morningstar needs to learn how to write with brevity and get to the fucking point.
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 No.407493

>>407483
Greta Thunberg is the Billie Eilish of ecology: she appeals to boomers who fawn over the "defiant white girl" bullshit and appears home-grown when it's so blatantly obvious there's a huge machine behind her and people with serious money "made" her.
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 No.407535

>>407483
>Don't you find it a little sus that ecomodernists reach the same conclusions as the other neolibs pushing advanced 'green' technology
The neolibs are actively obstructing "green technology" like low carbon nuclear power plants. When they don't outright block tech they often only invest small token amounts in "cleaner" alternate tech. The neoliberals want to keep their current capital stock and just scale it down enough until it only produces a decent living for a small section of society at the top.
If you peal back all the layers of de-growth rhetoric, that is more or less what they are prescribing.
>and surveillance capitalism as a solution to climate change?
what ? Nobody is suggesting …. that doesn't even make sense as a premise, surveillance doesn't help with climate change.
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 No.407564

>>407450
Autism.
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 No.407567

>>403902
Why do third worldists make it seem as if third worlders are obsessed with racial and cultural purity?
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 No.407605

>>405256
There are stories from surviving children of friends being dragged out screaming during the night, never to return.
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 No.407611

>>406643
Revolution isn't revenge and you're stupid for thinking it is.
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 No.408283

Question: are the indigenous *really* advocates of de-growth and Malthusianism, or do they just want their treaties recognized and respected?
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 No.408295

>>405180
No one sees a burning church in Canada and thinks: "Hmmm, settlerism was a mistake, better dismantle the entire Canadian state."
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 No.408970

>>407535
Suggesting that preserving elements of capitalist development is more important than economic transformation is your first step towards abandoning socialism and becoming just another liberal.
There are certainly capitalists that obstruct green tech and prop up the old ways of fossil fuel extraction. But there is also a growing consensus of capitalists and their NGO allies who are eager to invest in renewable power, electric cars, carbon tax schemes, etc. This is not "solving climate change", it's the necessary evolution of global capital to ensure profitability as resources continue to dwindle, and the climate continues to warm.
It's ridiculous that you keep clinging to this strawman that the "neolibs" are somehow against expanding industrial production, while at the same time ignoring the billions of dollars being funneled towards Fourth Industrial Revolution-type green development schemes. Ecomodernism is such a revolutionary idea that's fighting power, just like BLM is challenging the system while being funded by every large corporation in the USA.
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 No.409479

ITT: settlers

What if I told you the indigenous have a right to resist regardless?
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 No.409480

>>409479
What if I told you your mother sucks big fat fucking elephant cocks?
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 No.409846

>>407346
Maoists are too. If you read On Contradiction you'll notice it's 90% metaphysics, despite Mao claiming to be against metaphysics.
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 No.410193

>>402872
Remember back in the early 2010s post-Occupy when libertarians were the ones pushing the degrowth bullshit?
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 No.410473

>>409479
Of course Year Zero is a decolonization bot.
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 No.411684

File: 1627683336672.png ( 41.98 KB , 612x792 , settler-trauma-pic.png )

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 No.411752

>>407369
Why do anarchists think spontaneity is something worth striving for? Usually, spontaneously-planned anything ends up a mess.
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 No.411795

How does everyone feel about paying land taxes to indigenous tribes as a way of recognizing whose land you’re on and bettering the lives of tribal peoples?
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 No.411872

File: 1627690148547.png ( 1.77 MB , 5100x2000 , 1626979563916-0.png )

The earth has existed for millions of years and has destroyed and repaired its environment millions of times over, extinction events are natural and have been occurring since life began on earth with famous ones being the extinctions that took place during the ice age and the ones after the meteor strike, its climate has been rising and dropping repeatedly for billions of years naturally, the deepest most destructive mine is in south africa and hasn't even crossed 0.1% of the earth's total depth, it's been documented that every single predictor for when the earth runs out of precious metals and oil has been proven wrong because more deposits keep being discovered because much of the planets resources are unused, to put it simply human effects on the environment simply are insignificant and dont matter in the short and long term, humanity can and should take over as many resources as they can along with having as many children as possible to outlive the natural dangers of the environment like droughts, diseases and natural disasters like earthquakes volcano eruptions tornadoes tsunamis etc. People that are environmentalists dont realize this and their anti human and industrial sentiment would make them eugenicists that dont understand how the natural world works on an empirically scientific level
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 No.411876

What if this time only bacteria survives?
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 No.411878

>>411876
Context on what your trying to ask first please
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 No.411909

For starters,what do you mean by
>human effects on the environment simply are insignificant and dont matter in the short and long term
insignificant for what,for who,and how ?
Also,while having a lot of children was the norm to deal with terrible situations for most species on earth,it didn't result in them surviving til now,so what makes you sure it will work out that way now ? or maybe you even mean something else by having a lot of children,like engineering some special survival oriented evolution ?
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 No.411912

>>411872
>humanity can and should take over as many resources as they can along with having as many children as possible to outlive the natural dangers of the environment

that's not how it works you absolute retard
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 No.411914

>>405106
>>405180
>>408295
My takeaway from this is, leftists need to stop LARPing like we're still in the 20th century. What worked to get the French out of Algeria in 1962 isn't going to work to win Native Americans their self-determination in 2021 because the conditions are entirely different.
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 No.411929

>>411872
Thanks for writing an indefinsible parody strawman of cornucopian ideology so I don't have to.
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 No.412688

>>405106
>So the biggest argument against the ultra-left MTWists and the "DECOLONIZE!" crowd is that they actually view the white working-class as colonizers who have a home to return to, and believe that with enough resistance and terror they can eventually drive them out.
No, you misunderstand. They don't believe the "colonizers" have anywhere else to go. MTW is a genocidal ideology.
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 No.412699

>>407369
Unless you're planning on warping the fabric of space time, the term you're probably thinking of is "non-rectilinear".
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 No.412708

Malthusianism, environmentalism has always been a bourgeois weapon against the attempts of the working class to improve its situation.
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 No.412721

>>412708
>Malthusianism, environmentalism has always been a bourgeois weapon against the attempts of the working class to improve its situation.
Based. SUPPORT COMRADE CHEVRON AGAINST STEVEN DONZIGER IMPERIALISM!
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 No.412741

>>408970
This. Capitalists are just fighting each other over new markets, taking sides is irrelevant if not counterproductive. Also, economic growth (as GDP growth) is an imperative of the capitalist economy, which can't sustain itself without. It's thereby a dogma among the ruling class, who tries to paint it green or sustainable or whatever to deal with the malcontents. Questioning a capitalist tenet such as growth can be a doorway toward a more materialist understanding of the world.
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 No.412866

>>412699
Rectilinear is architecture, i'm talking about urban planning and not aethetics
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 No.413243

>>412688
Exactly, which is why MTW is effectively useless and worthless.

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