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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1627258362827.jpeg ( 194.41 KB , 2000x2000 , 63a5139d-e581-4d7b-a2c2-8….jpeg )

 No.402040[View All]

>Planned economies could wor- oh…

What are your thoughts? Can Walmart's model be expanded to the economy of an entire nation? And further as the global economy?
89 posts and 9 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.402375

File: 1627268357463-0.png ( 229.84 KB , 1630x591 , DOTP isn't socialism1.png )

File: 1627268357463-1.png ( 130.63 KB , 1651x489 , DOTP isn't socialism2.png )

File: 1627268357463-2.png ( 101.69 KB , 1667x264 , DOTP isn't socialism3.png )

File: 1627268357463-3.png ( 58.19 KB , 1653x144 , DOTP isn't socialism4.png )

>>402367
A DOTP isn't socialism in it of itself. The DOTP is a transition from capitalism INTO socialism. Please, read lenin.
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 No.402377

>>402364
So the profit motive is the only thing, got it. Lmao fucking hell.
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 No.402379

>>402366
Dengoids are a special branch of retards and don't really exist in real life organizations. The Chinese themselves are not Dengoids like the Western hyperonline leftists are, it's a meme ideology. Chinese are, for now, predominantly just your run of the mill left-developmentalists that have existed in many countries before. But that is a different discussion.
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 No.402380

>>402359
I don’t give a fuck. The problem isn’t China trying to do a Singapore or whatever, although, I still haven’t heard from any dengoid on how the PRC avoids the Contradictions in Capitalism, how the proletariats’ interests are being secured or how the State uses the revenue made by their enterprises to provide for the human services and welfare for the population. It’s their weak-ass support of international socialists and Anti-Imperialist forces. Because it ain’t profitable for them. Fuck, even if they tried to foster similar Socialist Market Economies around the world with a DotP in charge of their allied governments, that’d do SOMETHING to push the dialectic forward. But any of that would be bad for business.
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 No.402384

The original point of the post was that a planned economy can work and work excellently well and Walmart was proof of this and that it could be expanded to all of society. Now you have everyone disagreeing on what socialism or planned economy is, I fucking love it.
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 No.402385

File: 1627268504005-0.png ( 51.96 KB , 1692x137 , DOTP is transition from st….png )

File: 1627268504005-1.png ( 86.83 KB , 1643x216 , DOTP isn't socialism 5.png )

>>402375
To add
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 No.402386

>>402372
This I don’t dispute. But I won't begrudge fellow travelers for being wrong, provided our interests are fundamentally aligned.
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 No.402390

>>402375
A state using the DOTP is a socialist one, even if its economy hasn't reached a mature socialist mode of production yet. This is a very unnecessary definitional wordplay you are doing. Why bother right now while the lolbert is here?
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 No.402392

>>402379
You sound just as much of a terminally online idiot by saying what you just said. You probably don’t even know what left developmentalism is. It just sounds like another schizo meme shit. China is socialist, I think we can accept that at face value as well as in content.
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 No.402393

>>402047
>competition
You literally haven’t read the book OP posted which directly addressed this. There’s multiple instances of libertarians and randtards that got the reign of corporate entities. The result has always been completely disastrous for the performance of the corporation. These incompetent idealists had different departments competed against each other, the result was that it fostered a hugely hostile working environment that get nothing done other than tanking the company’s profits.

Competition in planning ruins corporation and the system in general.
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 No.402394

>>402392
China does not have a socialist economy. Why would it need to transition into socialism starting in 2050 if this was the case? It is a capitalist economy being guided by a party.
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 No.402395

>>402380
You’re talking about pure abstract concepts and not concrete stuff, and this is because your experience is only in the books and not in practice.
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 No.402397

>>402395
The Dengoid has logged on
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 No.402399

>>402394
It is a mixed economy with a socialist political head. A mixed economy with purpose.
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 No.402401

>>402373
Literally, can you not read? Particularly the part of “not having any better alternative?”

This is why I can’t take debatebro walking abortions like you seriously, because you can’t help but posturing with all of your replies. AES not immune from criticism, particularly at the internal level, but hardly anyone would suffer people who call any attempt to do anything, warts and all, “not real socialists” or “opportunists” because it didn’t live up to some archetype they had in their head.

How, pray tell, does Bordiga find a profit motive in the USSR and similar states?
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 No.402406

>>402390
Just ignore the businesscuck dipshit. We don’t even share a common language with him, or at least a common lexicon and basic understandings.
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 No.402407

>>402397
Nope. You are talking about abstractions. Go to China, join the communist party, throw your shit around and see what happens. They’ll tell you, okay how do you plan to achieve this shit without it backfiring? Have you as a single person planned for all unseen scenarios once we haphazardly just start this shit at random? You won’t be throwing around DOTP without it meaning something abstract. The question isn’t what some abstract phrase means but what it means in practice, what does a DOTP mean in practice, that’s the wall you’ll hit and have to answer for. You couldn’t because your brain lives in theory and not in practice.
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 No.402409

>>402399
China is a capitalist economy with a strong state sector (the main speciality being that finance is controlled by the state). This isn't even controversial, read any issue of Qiushi and they will say the same. The only difference to other state capitalists is that a red party is at helms, that banking is state-controlled and that the rulers make vague allusions to "transitions" in 2050/2078.
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 No.402411

>>402384
This is a given assumption we all share. But raider fuckery and shitflinging is pretty entertaininf, so let us have our fun. Hell, we might even learn something from this target dummy, or at least get good rhetorical practice.
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 No.402413

>>402407
Stop this embarrassing and hysteric LARP.
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 No.402420

>>402401
Empirical evidence. You think he just didn’t try to gather information? Also Bordiga didn’t actively try to CIA Stalin or the Soviets. He was only a socialist looking to critique the Soviets. And he wasn’t the only one who did so from a real educational reason. You practice self censor which is funny, I try to read as much shit as possible, including internal sources.
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 No.402422

>>402409
That being said China has politicians who overrule the bourgeois and not vice versa as most other capitalist economies do, although Putin for example also overrules his oligarchs, so this alone doesn't show us socialism, even if it is useful for the commoner to have politicians on your side doing long-term thinking rather than the short-term lizard brain thinking that capitalists prefer (see: coronavirus response in China and in the West)
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 No.402425

>>402413
How is it a LARP that China is here and the Soviet Union isn’t?
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 No.402427

>>402409
In China socialism just means state ownership. This means that fucking China went from socialist country to capitalist one then it’s going back to socialist country in 2050. So socialism is just state ownership and that’s it.
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 No.402429

>>402407
Lemme go back to my post >>402380
>Securing Proletarian Interests (Worker Protections, Arbitration, participation in decision-making/management, etc.)
>Providing Basic Human Services (Healthcare, Education, Housing, Infrastructure, Cost of Living, Development etc.) using its economic system and policy
The above existed in the Warsaw Pact AFAIK. I see no reason why China can’t do the same
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 No.402436

>>402420
>Empirical Evidence
Well, we’re waiting.
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 No.402447

Anyways Walmart is proof that communism can work and planned economies can work, no need for price indicators like Hayek said. Walmart even tried to switch out of economic planning and led to massive problems, so planning is here to stay. Preferably Walmart becomes the model for all business firms and can provide us with the full transition to a fully rationally planned economy. Walmart and Amazon are planned economy bulwarks. Our job now is to politically push for a making Walmart and Amazon public firms for all of our society to transition to a self managed planned economy. That’s my closing statement for the thread. Anyone who has something to say about my conclusions are most likely porkies or libertarians.
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 No.402451

>>402425
Russia still exists, the China of now isn't the China of old. This doesn't matter. Both the Soviet and the Chinese projects have failed. The Russians stopped trying, the Chinese took a conscious step back to develop their capitalist base first before, allegedly, trying another attempt by 2050.
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 No.402452

>>402436
I don’t have all the Soviet files to go through, Bordiga did. Are you insane?
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 No.402455

>>402451
Okay ultra.
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 No.402458

>>402447
You were doing well until that last sentence. What kind of brainworms is that? Of course they provide us a toy model or a conception of how we can make a planned economy, but saying to “nationalize walmart/amazon” is how you get westerners sucking Deng’s dead cock.
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 No.402459

>>402455
What's ultra about it you insane Dengoid? It's the CPC line that they did a tactical retreat so they can first build "productive forces". What the fuck is wrong with you? Lmfao
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 No.402461

>>402452
You don’t remember a single thing Bordiga said or a single statistic, however anecdotal, that the armchair asshole brought up? Come on, this is weak.
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 No.402474

>>402458
If you’re this obsessed with Deng you must want to suck his cock if he’s living in your head rent free.
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 No.402477

>>402459
Because everything you don’t like is Deng so yeah you’re an ultra.
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 No.402483

>>402474
If I let Deng live rent free in my head, it’d do a hell of a lot more for the decommodification of housing than the PRC has ever done.
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 No.402484

>>402461
Like I said Bordiga is only 1 among multiple things I’ve read on the economy of the Soviet Union.
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 No.402488

>>402477
The Deng position is that China wasn't ready for a socialist mode of production yet so they must engage in capitalism in order to build the productive forces necessary to later implement socialism. This is NOT up to discussion, this is quite literally what Deng and the subsequent leaders have said.
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 No.402497

>>402488
But China was already full communism during the cultural revolution.
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 No.402499

>>402497
1. No it wasn't, not even Mao claimed that.
2. China moved past the Mao system many decades ago.
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 No.402506

>>402484
But you can’t produce a single detail about what was said? Are you brain damaged, do you have memory problems?
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 No.402514

>>402349
>lolbert defending Richard Wolff
You're in the right path, come back in a few years and we'll have a proper debate.
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 No.402521

>>402499
Nah it was definitely full communism
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 No.402523

>>402506
Profits existed in the USSR.
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 No.402525

>>402521
No it wasn't. You're just baiting now.
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 No.402532

>>402523
Can you prove it?
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 No.402543

File: 1627271549398.jpg ( 56.8 KB , 590x587 , a2c57f2538c1f1b5e2342f92c7….jpg )

>>402514
I learned about him through this meme I found on the booru. He doesn't seem that bad actually
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 No.402685

>>402287
>>402294
>>402312
The USSR up until the Kosgyin reform easily passed the Anti-duhring test definition of a socialist economy as proposed by engels.

The USSR's economy on account of being 99.9% composed of state owned enterprises and workers cooperatives that were taxed at 100% (soviet turnover tax) with material excess from the enterprises being reinvested into the economy and nil capital accumulation.
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 No.403114

>>402166
sauce for graph?
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 No.403217

File: 1627310344074.gif ( 129.39 KB , 680x315 , 070.gif )

>>402098
>tankieism
>texture pack

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