[ home / overboard / sfw / alt / cytube] [ leftypol / b / WRK / hobby / tech / edu / ga / ent / music / 777 / posad / i / a / lgbt / R9K / dead ] [ meta ]

/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
Name
Email
Subject
Comment
Captcha
Tor Only
Flag
File
Embed
Password (For file deletion.)
Matrix   IRC Chat   Mumble
ReturnCatalogBottom

File: 1627238300574.gif ( 1.99 MB , 330x275 , 1623839815297.gif )

 No.401291[View All]

What is the real death toll of socialism?
This post is a test to reveal that /leftypol/acks are actually existing tankies, no better than /pol/ in being honest about their idealism. I hope that some of you can prove me wrong. It should go without saying, but every civilisation and ideology has resulted in atrocities and if you're incapable of admitting those of your own (without comforting stipulations like "b-but they deserved it!!1!") then you're living in a spooked fucking fantasy world.
66 posts and 9 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
>>

 No.409411

>>401381
always cracks me up lol
>>

 No.409416

>3 millions of Ukrainians starve to death
>b-b-but some of them were kulaks! therefore it's all justified and doesn't count!
Unironically worse than liberals.

Then you've got retards like >>401356 who count births as negative deaths, which is like counting consensual sex as negative rape.
>>

 No.409423

>>409416
>Unironically worse than liberals
Liberals discount deaths from the poverty of capitalism all the time.
>>

 No.409427

>>409423
>but in america, you are lynching negroes!
Maybe, but at least they don't discount intentional starvation.
Unlike tankies in this very thread.
>>

 No.409428

>>401291
whatever Dennis says after his wife doesn't allow him to have sex with her again
>>

 No.409432

>>409427
but there wasn't any?
Why are anarchists and libs so fucking incesstant on it? Are you jealous That we actually did shit and have to smeer us? Go ahead bitch. It doesn't stop anarchism from failing to launch everytime. The only anarchists that exist in the world are all white PMCs
>>

 No.409434

File: 1627584797197.jpg ( 15.13 KB , 170x213 , tukh.JPG )

>>409416
kulak detected, and wait… look at this, a signed confession!
>>

 No.409436

>>409427
There was no intentional starvation.
>>

 No.409443

>>409432
>Why are anarchists and libs so fucking incesstant on it?
Maybe because of the orders to shoot people trying to escape famine?
It could be partly because the starvation deaths were somehow happening much more often to Ukrainians than to almost any other group.
Or maybe because of how food was being confiscated from starving Ukrainians to send it to relatively well off russians?

But no, this can't be intentional just because of that! Nope, nothing here.
>>

 No.409455

>>409443
Since you are so certain of this, I assume you have a source for these claims?
>>

 No.409471

>>409443
>famine in Ukraine disproportionately affects Ukrainians
woah
>>

 No.409478

>>409443
>Maybe because of the orders to shoot people trying to escape famine?
[citation fucking needed]
What kind of logic is this? What's the point of shooting them while starving?
>Or maybe because of how food was being confiscated from starving Ukrainians to send it to relatively well off russians?
I'm pretty sure USSR was planning to send food not only to Russia, to all others soviet countries, including Ukraine.
>But no, this can't be intentional just because of that! Nope, nothing here.
Cite ONE source where they were deliberately planing to starve SPECIFICALLY Ukraine, and for what fucking reason?
>>

 No.409483

File: 1627588206804-0.jpg ( 196.31 KB , 1200x841 , f96a173b421601b088d67c0bde….jpg )

File: 1627588206804-1.jpg ( 527.94 KB , 1050x950 , 15d2ec1ad24b822989685217f9….jpg )

>>409443
>affected disproportionately the ukrainians
Let me say that is false, Kazakhstan was more affected by the famine, also contries that depended on ukraine for food, like poland, was also affected.
>>

 No.409485

According to fake historians the "holodomor" magically ended when it crossed the soviet-poland border lmao
>>

 No.409498

>>409443
>Maybe because of the orders to shoot people trying to escape famine?

Can confirm. My father is from ukraine and he died 90000 times because Stalin killed him again and again when he tried to get food.
>>

 No.409500

>>401294
/thread
>>

 No.409506

>>403791
>no argument
>>

 No.409507

>>409443
1. Peasants fleeing the southern grain regions (not just Ukraine) were apprehended (not shot) and returned, because they were necessary to solve the famine.
2. Kazakhs suffered worse. If the famine was intentional and targeting Ukrainians, why did it affect areas outside Ukraine?
3. Food was confiscated from rural regions so that the cities with population concentrations would not starve. In doing this they saved lives.

There is no evidence whatsoever of it being planned or otherwise intentional. Extensive relief in the form of food, seeds, and forage was sent, and tens of thousands of workers were dispatched to aid in the collectivization process. This lead to a successful harvest which ended the famine. Collectivization in general ended the cyclical famines Russia had suffered from since time immemorial.
>>

 No.410654

>>409507
>were apprehended (not shot)
Revisionism
>Kazakhs suffered worse
Somehow it's only nations that weren't subservient to the overlord. Curious that.
>Food was confiscated from rural regions so that the cities with population concentrations would not starve.
So they ended up killing much more in the end.
>>

 No.410657

>>409507
>Extensive relief in the form of food, seeds, and forage was sent
Intentionally way too late.
>>

 No.410659

>>409498
Stalin ate all the fathers.
>>

 No.410661

>>410657
Do you have a single fact to back that up ?
>>

 No.410711

>>401291
>It should go without saying, but every civilisation and ideology has resulted in atrocities
False.
>if you're incapable of admitting those of your own
I am but they seriously didnt happen.
>>

 No.410741

>>409416
>3 millions of Ukrainians starve to death
Because of communism?
Think how capitalism would deal with famine for more than a second.
>>

 No.410744

>>410741
In 1983, Here in BR HUE zone at least 3,5 million died in the northern part from a famine, the BR gov barelly helped, and no entity cared about these deaths and is hardly recorded in any media.
>>

 No.410760

>>409443
>orders to shoot people trying to escape famine?
Show me the order
>food was being confiscated from starving Ukrainians
Likewise, proof
>>

 No.410795

>>410661
Try google
>>

 No.410808

>>410795
Google will tell me anything I want it to tell me.
>>

 No.410813

>>401291
Way below what western media gleefully reports. Also, waaaaaaaaaaaay below Victims of Communism's numbers, and like 99% of death toll of socialism comes from fascists killed in WW2.
>>

 No.410814

>>409416
>3 millions of Ukrainians starve to death

According to fucking who, Conquest? There wasn't even a million dead due to that famine for ENTIRE USSR, and Poland across the border had bigger death rates due to famine in their part of Ukraine.
>>

 No.410819

What's so bad about killing people?
>>

 No.410820

>>410744
what's this?
>>

 No.410824

>>410819
It's unhygienic.
>>

 No.410826

>>410824
Not if you recycle properly
>>

 No.410828

File: 1627644939652.webm ( 42.36 MB , 960x720 , march of soviet tankists.webm )

>>401291
Politics is violence. The "death toll" doesn't matters, all that matters is that the hyperbole surrounding the narrative that communism is especially violent or murderous is bullshit.
>>

 No.410830

>>410814
>There wasn't even a million dead due to that famine for ENTIRE USSR
lmao
>>

 No.410925

>>410920
>Holodomor and gulag deaths are fake, if you guys admit the Holocaust didn't happen. Deal?
No because both were real the only difference is that the Holodomor wasn't
intentional.
>>

 No.410927

>>410920
No. The white genocide commited by the prefidious German shall never be forgiven. Go suck on Prescott Bush's cock, maybe he will give more investies into your conslager slave-labour companies.
>>

 No.410928

A couple million nazis at least
>>

 No.410932

>death toll of socialism
this is a concept that makes no fucking sense
>>

 No.411134

File: 1627660757632.jpg ( 274.24 KB , 732x1024 , ppmc7w.JPG )

>>410654
>revisionism
The only revisionist here is you, claiming that the famine was intentional in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, because of your rabid anti-communist ideological persuasions.
>Somehow it's only nations that weren't subservient
Huh? The famine affected a large geographic area beyond Ukraine and Kazakhstan. It also affected the southern Volga regions, Russia proper, the Ural region, and Siberia. In the west the weather also had effects on crops outside of Soviet borders, in Poland and Turkey.
>So they ended up killing much more in the end.
No, it saved lives. Cities had population concentrations and economic concentrations. No doubt if the Soviets had sent no aid to the cities we’d be hearing your crocodile tears about those deaths instead.

Soviet collectivization ended the archaic feudal agricultural system and by doing so ended famine forever in Russia.

>>410657
>Intentionally way too late.
It was delayed due to administrative incompetence and bungling on the local levels. There is zero evidence it was intentionally late.
>>

 No.411146

>>410830
It's true, though. You get 3 million with DEMOGRAPHIC BALANCING. You know, the same method that gives USA 10 millions dead during the same years - Dustbowl Famine, ever heard of it? So, choose wisely - either both USSR and USA lost millions due to famine, and USA was worse off even, or USSR didn't lose even a million dead due to famine.
>>

 No.411152

>>411134
>It was delayed due to administrative incompetence and bungling on the local levels. There is zero evidence it was intentionally late.

It wasn't delayed at all. It's just like with China's super-corruption or whatever - their state works so well that there's a lot of reporting and self-criticism, resulting in westerners having too many "proofs" of gazillions dead. Good accounting and no hiding of mistakes results in gazillions dead in western media.
>>

 No.411183

>>411146
>Dustbowl Famine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl
You know what's so fucking funny to me? No mention on wiki about death of this famine AT ALL. Only about "economic impact". If this was about USSR or any other even vaguely socialist country, half of the page would be about how many people died horrible in this famine.
>>

 No.411467

File: 1627673067377.png ( 635.7 KB , 2420x1507 , WikiReliableSources.png )

>>411183
Yeah, wiki is shit. The very fact that info on wiki changes depending on language is proof enough that wiki isn't reliable at all, and their guidelines are just fun all around. The most brazen example is wehraboo mythology pages, any mention that nazis lied and both lessened their losses and hugely overblew enemy losses, and thus any data based off nazi official propaganda cannot be used, is met with huge outrage.
>>

 No.411546

>>409356 (me)
here are the numbers of the victims of communism from european countries:
>USSR
executed: ~800 thousand
died in GULag: ~1,2 million (including "spetsposelenie" and deported nations)
1932-33 famine: ~3 million
(source: ZEMSKOV, Politicheskie repressii v SSSR: realnyje masshtaby i spekulyativnye postroeniya, 2013 - cyrillic: Политические репрессии в СССР: реальные масштабы и спекулятивные построения.)
>Czechoslovakia
executed: 248
died in camps: ~4500
while crossing the border: ~282
died during the Warsaw pact invasion: 137
(sources: TOMEK, Oběti komunistického režimu, 2010 https://archive.fo/l3LAh , TOMEK, PEJČOCH, Černá kniha sovětské okupace, 2018, Svět křídel)
>GDR
executed: 52 (by soviet military tribunals: 1 200)
"political murders": 50
while crossing the border: 270 - 4 444
(source: BORBE, Die Zahl der Opfer des SED-Regimes, 2010 https://d-nb.info/117824721X/34 )
>Poland
50 000 (from this 3 000 were executed)
(IPN wydał album o zbrodniach komunizmu z lat 1944-56, https://naukawpolsce.pap.pl/aktualnosci/news%2C393765%2Cipn-wydal-album-o-zbrodniach-komunizmu-z-lat-1944-56.html )
>Romania
500 000 - 2 million
(Romania exposes communist crimes, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6190931.stm )
>Bulgaria
killed by partisans september - october 1944: 26 850
died in camps: 640
death senteces: 1050 (January - May 1945), 680 (1946-1975)
died during the turkish demonstrations 1984-89: 160
(Crimes Committed by the Communist Regime in Bulgaria, https://www.ustrcr.cz/data/pdf/konference/zlociny-komunismu/COUNTRY%20REPORT%20BULGARIA.pdf )
>Hungary
Sentenced to death by criminal courts and executed (1946–56)- 338
Sentenced to death by military courts and executed (1946–56)- 147
Sentenced to death and executed for part in ’56 Revolution (1956–61)- 228
died in the Hungarian uprising 1956 - 2652
died in camps/ prisons - 300
(THE CRIMES OF THE COMMUNIST REGIME IN HUNGARY NATIONAL REPORT, https://www.ustrcr.cz/data/pdf/konference/zlociny-komunismu/COUNTRY REPORT HUNGARY.pdf )
>Albania
~6000 people executed / died in prisons/camps
(Communist-Era Disappearances Still Haunt Albania, https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/03/17/communist-era-disappearances-still-haunt-albania )
>Yugoslavia
5 000 - 20 died in the camps
( https://munkataborok.hu/en/other_countries/yugoslavia )

P.S. most of this is just me using google. if you have better sources, post them.
>>

 No.411549

>>411546
*5 000 - 20 000 died in the camps (yugoslavia)
>>

 No.411552

File: 1627678044664.jpg ( 101.42 KB , 746x566 , Aloysius_O'Hare.jpg )

low quality bait thread
>>

 No.411583

File: 1627679605644.jpg ( 127.23 KB , 1360x765 , 9505d3424f3272f36bfdcdab83….jpg )

>>

 No.411590

>>409416
These weren't regular births. They were excess births brought about by communism.

Unique IPs: 33
[Return][Catalog][Top][Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / overboard / sfw / alt / cytube] [ leftypol / b / WRK / hobby / tech / edu / ga / ent / music / 777 / posad / i / a / lgbt / R9K / dead ] [ meta ]
ReturnCatalogTopBottomHome