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File: 1627166150608.png ( 13.03 MB , 3270x2733 , US prison labor vs Soviet ….png )

 No.399119[Last 50 Posts]

I often see communists decry prison labor in capitalist countries, particularly in the United States, describing it as a form of modern slavery. However, I often see these same communists turn around and praise prison labor in communist countries, most notably the Soviet Union. Why is this case? Why can't I oppose prison labor under all economic systems?
>>

 No.399125

Because small business owners and porkies are the real uyghurs.
>>

 No.399137

>>399119
Because wasting bullets on counterrevolutionaries is poor logistics as you need those to quell the inevitable imperialist invasion.
Anarchists will ferment the soil of the gulags, by the way. Extremely excited to see you rats hit the ground.
>>

 No.399142

OP the prisoners in capitalism are of the proletariat and lumpens. In socialism the prisoners are bourgeois and their reactionary supporters. The use of the first labor is exploitation the use of the latter is justice no regrets.
>>

 No.399144

>>399137
>Because wasting bullets on counterrevolutionaries
Two issues here:
1. Most gulag inmates were petty criminals, not counterrevolutionaries
2. Why not treat counterrevolutionaries as normal criminals? Just lock 'em up for a few years, and then integrate them into society after that.
>you need those to quell the inevitable imperialist invasion
I can see some logic here, although the usefulness of using prisoners as labor would largely be dependent on there being a large number of them. In the United States, the country with the highest incarceration rate in the world, less than 1% of the population is incarcerated. I am not sure you'd really be that much more productive if you put all of them to work.

>>399142
See above
>>

 No.399149

Why are prisons okay to rightoids but gulags suddenly become evil death camps where 902 bazillion people died?
>>

 No.399152

>>399149
Propaganda. I am not going to pretend that it's okay when capitalist countries do it.
>>

 No.399154

>>399142
(^My post)
>>399144
Most gulag inmates were petty criminals, not counterrevolutionaries

If so petty criminals should get like those newer Norway or better prisons the harsh stuff for the bourgeois counter-revolutionaries
>>

 No.399160

>>399154
>If so petty criminals should get like those newer Norway or better prisons
I can agree with this
>the harsh stuff for the bourgeois counter-revolutionaries
Why? Is it actually necessary if you want to reform them, or is this just some revenge fantasy? At least when it comes to normal crime, harsher punishments aren't necessarily more effective. I am not sure if it would work much differently for political crimes.
>>

 No.399168

You can be against all forms of prison labor. I just make a difference between people ending up for years in prison for carrying a common drug like weed and receiving statistically higher sentences due to racial bias even when accounting for criminal history and socioeconomic status, and Nazis, class traitors, kulaks being made to work for a greater cause.
>>

 No.399181

>Pointing out that labor camps were normal for the time and place in DotP
<Lol, commies praise forced labor when it’s their guys
Concerning capitalism, people are incentivized to be imprisoned for someone’s personal enrichment and provide an incentive to throw people into jail for dubious crimes at best.
>>

 No.399215

>>399181

Thank you comrade. Indeed this is the reason.

Having criminals do work is not inherently good or bad in and of itself.
>>

 No.399217

>>399215
People require labour to support their lives. Criminals are people. If they don't work that's a drain, and also doesn't prepare them for rehabilitation. At the end of their sentence, they should be paid for all the labour they provided, minus expenses of imprisoning them.
>>

 No.399219

>>399215
I mean, if you’re gonna put someone on a work regimen in jail, at the very least make sure that they can qualify for the same jobs or jobs of a similar type when they get out. Resocializing and reintegrating the person in question to prevent recidivism.
>>

 No.399222

prison labour in socialism serves the working class. dito under capitalism serves porky
>>

 No.399225

>>399119
Prison labor treats the convict as a chattel, property of the state of which to expect the labor for profit, often private.

Gulag labor treats the traitor as a citizen whose duties are to repair the damage they have to the state.

Very fine but importance differences.
>>

 No.399226

>>399160
Revenge fantasy for the actual bourgeois reform and reeducation for the reactionary of the proletariat. <- fair compromise?
>>

 No.399228

>>399137
What is counterrevolutionary about wanting to keep the fruit of ones labour? Kulaks were 99,9% just free farmers.
>>

 No.399229

>>399226
no
>>

 No.399231

>>399229
I want the bourgeoisie to be punished quit being a moralistic faggot.
>>

 No.399235

File: 1627169390651.jpg ( 850.68 KB , 1579x1242 , DCDAPYW.jpg )

>>399228
>>

 No.399237

>>399228
Kulaks where bourgeois look at the farming thread we have that needs more bumps.
>>

 No.399239

>>399237
Link it here, fam
>>

 No.399247

>>399137
This. It’s better to do harsh labor as a rehabilitative thing rather than just execute counter revolutionaries or force them to rot in a prison doing nothing.
>>

 No.399250

>>399231
you are the one being moralistic torturing porky is inneficient and childish either you kill them or reeducate them there is no other option
>>

 No.399258

>>399250
Tell me why they can destroy our planet and never face pain for it? Maybe I am in fact the moralistic one still I want them to pay!
>>

 No.399261

>>399181
>>Pointing out that labor camps were normal for the time and place in DotP
That doesn't mean it's okay though. Slavery was normal in the 1700s, but does that mean it was okay to do it then?

>>399215
>Having criminals do work is not inherently good or bad in and of itself.
It's still forced labor, aka slavery. Whether or not that's okay in certain certain circumstances is up to you.

>>399225
But were gulag inmates treated any better than prison laborers in capitalist countries? The yearly mortality rate for gulags in 1933 was 5% in 1933. By comparison, the yearly mortality rate for US prisoners in 2018 was 0.344%. I don't know what percentage of prison inmates did forced labor though, much less their mortality rate.

>>399226
Maybe? I'm not sure that revenge fantasies are necessary for anyone.

>>399231
You're being moralistic by advocating punishment beyond what is necessary to reform them

>>399258
If they are not in power they cannot do that.
>>

 No.399269

>>399261
I don't want torture for the bourgeoisie I want hard physical community service (labor) it isn't to much to ask!
>>

 No.399270

>>399250
There’s not a lot of cost to torture porky or counter revolutionaries. In fact I did the calculations myself of what it would take to torture them and the cost is pretty much not much as how much it costs to maintain one prisoner per capita. In fact it would be cheaper especially when I calculated the varied amounts of time it’ll take for prisoners to die from the torture and harsh labor conditions.
>>

 No.399271

>>399270
Baser bourgeois torturist!
>>

 No.399273

>>399261
>But were gulag inmates treated any better than prison laborers in capitalist countries? The yearly mortality rate for gulags in 1933 was 5% in 1933. By comparison, the yearly mortality rate for US prisoners in 2018 was 0.344%. I don't know what percentage of prison inmates did forced labor though, much less their mortality rate.

Revolutionary citizenship is more exhausting and exerting than slavery.
>>

 No.399275

>>399269
>I want hard physical community service (labor) it isn't to much to ask!
I'm not sure that's necessary

>>399270
>In fact I did the calculations myself of what it would take to torture them and the cost is pretty much not much as how much it costs to maintain one prisoner per capita.
You actually went through the effort to calculate that? Interesting…

>>399273
Then it sounds like revolutionary citizenship is worse than slavery. You are not helping your case.
>>

 No.399276

>>399273
The fuck’s the matter with you? Russia’s always been a hard and violent place and was barely a step removed from being medieval under the Tsar. Not acknowledging this material reality and instead going all “yes, a true proletarian state makes the enemies of the revolution sweat” or some other bullshit is peak larping.
>>

 No.399277

>>399239
Thread here >>398921
>>

 No.399278

>>399277
Thanks
>>

 No.399280

>>399275
Necessary no justice HELL YES
Imagine the bourgeois doing hard labor for nothing like they made the proletariat do. They should have to suffer the class pitfalls they made. You want them the war criminals and corporate destroys of the planet to get wrist slaps shameful honestly!
>>

 No.399281

>>399275
>You actually went through the effort to calculate that? Interesting…

Yes, this is my utilitarian argument if the issue is the cost, that is my argument. If the counter argument is a question of morality then you enter into much more abstract, non-concrete speculation which is questionable to say the least. I say this because morality has never actually been the way laws are made in practice. There is a bit of morality in law making but morality is too abstract a principle and usually all the internal contradictions of a certain law becomes known in practice and so new laws are made. Laws are organic and contextual. Anyways the point I’m making is that moralism is not a good argument against torturing porky either.
>>

 No.399285

>>399280
>Necessary no justice HELL YES
Then I do not support it. I do not care for abstract notions of "justice", only results.

>>399281
>Yes, this is my utilitarian argument if the issue is the cost, that is my argument.
But does it actually accomplish much? As I have stated before, making a punishment harsher does not necessarily make it more effective. If anything, you may just harden their hatred of socialism, and thus reinforce their counterrevolutionary sentiments.
>>

 No.399288

>>399281
My ally, my Uyghur, my comrade pulling through past the weak wrist slap advocates!
>>

 No.399289

>>399285
Results? Like letting the bourgeoisie get wrist slaps for crimes against humanity? You're "results" are weak and cowardly fam!
>>

 No.399292

>>399289
>Like letting the bourgeoisie get wrist slaps for crimes against humanity?
"Wrist slaps" and full-blown torture are not the only options. I personally advocate for rehabilitation and integration into proletarian society.
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 No.399294

>>399285
Nya and not someone who’s particularly torture horny, but this is weak. The forces of reaction have no qualms doing worse stuff to us if the situation was reversed and it is furthermore in their material interests to suppress the Proletariat. I have no qualms about what happens to them inasmuch as it will blow back on me.
>>

 No.399296

>>399292
Hard physical labor like I said here>>399269
Is a fair middle ground! Torture is unnecessary but you keep saying I support it when I don't! They can be punished and rehabilitated at the same time!
>>

 No.399298

>>399285
>If anything, you may just harden their hatred of socialism, and thus reinforce their counterrevolutionary sentiments.

This is speculation. Also porky already hates socialism and there’s no reason why a government should waste resources on re-education on porky specifically. Mind you, the conversation here is not on how to deal with normal petty criminals, the conservation is the porky punishment question. And torturing them would be essentially superfluous and even virtuous to the masses if presented in the correct way. The masses are more accepting of honest brutality than brutality that is made to be hidden. Anyways if you’re asking about what it would accomplish, essentially it is entertainment for the people, like how people gathered for hangings. People watching executions isn’t new and I don’t doubt there will be those who do not want to watch like how some people are accepting of the death penalty but don’t care to watch it. Society is complicated and chances are they would be very accepting of the torturing of porky, especially early on. Over time perhaps as porky becomes a thing of history and the last of the former porkies are in their 80s and 90s we could put them in a museum for children to see and learn from the greed and exploitation that once existed in the world.
>>

 No.399308

>>399270
yes but are you taking in account all the labour that porky could give if he wasn't rendered useless by torture?
>>

 No.399309

>>399298
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowe must put on our kid gloves with the bourgeoisie you wouldn't wanna be a "moralists" or do things "unnecessary"
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 No.399310

File: 1627171716475-0.png ( 9.02 MB , 3087x3087 , ClipboardImage.png )

File: 1627171716475-1.png ( 147.75 KB , 460x288 , ClipboardImage.png )

File: 1627171716475-2.png ( 361.57 KB , 611x404 , ClipboardImage.png )

>>399292
>I personally advocate for rehabilitation and integration into proletarian society.
AAAHHHH NOO you can't do that to our prisons!
>>

 No.399313

>>399285
>Then I do not support it. I do not care for abstract notions of "justice", only results.
based moralizing such important problems is peak idealism
>>399289
if you are a dangerous reactonary fuck you get a bullet and thats that
>>

 No.399316

>>399313
A bullet? You mean a instant death and no real reconcile with the crime you did?
>>

 No.399320

>>399310
honestly all but second pic are also unecessary luxorious
>>

 No.399323

>>399316
wtf do I care if they reconcile with anything they did as long as they are not threat I'm ok with it
>>

 No.399328

>Sandn!ggers in Norwegian prisons live better than me
>>

 No.399329

>>399323
Sure it probably better to "eliminate" them. Still with all they have done to the working class don't blame me for wanting this justice.
>>

 No.399334

>>399296
>Hard physical labor like I said here>>399269
I still think it's unnecessary
>Torture is unnecessary but you keep saying I support it when I don't
Well one of the anons I was talking to was supporting torture
>They can be punished and rehabilitated at the same time!
I mean, sure, you may be right here. I just don't think that forced hard physical labor is necessary for that.

>>399298
>This is speculation.
IIRC correctly John McCain was tortured by North Vietnam for awhile. I doubt that it did wonders for his opinion of them.
> Also porky already hates socialism and there’s no reason why a government should waste resources on re-education on porky specifically.
It's not like it's hardwired into their DNA to hate socialism. They can be retrained. Just teach them about the consequences of their actions, including how their actions had hurt them. Global warming will be harmful to everyone, regardless of class.
>Anyways if you’re asking about what it would accomplish, essentially it is entertainment for the people
I guess I can see that, although I am not sure we want to promote this sort of sadistic "entertainment", as it could end up promoting sadistic behavior between proles.
>like how people gathered for hangings.
Most people nowadays see those sorts of things as barbaric
>>

 No.399339

>>399308
I didn’t specifically say what kind of torture I had in mind, which mainly was endless work. Beating on porky is pointless, instead working in a factory with little to no ventilation for hours on end I think is the correct amount of torture.
>>

 No.399340

>>399334
>IIRC correctly John McCain was tortured by North Vietnam for awhile. I doubt that it did wonders for his opinion of them.

Read the rest of my post. I have your answer in there.
>>

 No.399341

>>399340
John McCain was a hell of a man unlike Chetto Hitler, watch your fucking mouth.
>>

 No.399342

>>399339
Exactly they should face the same terrible work conditions the proletariat did! Maybe not for life depending on how old they where… Still for a time!
>>

 No.399343

>>399342
We should also put all white people into slavery for 200 years.
>>

 No.399344

>>399340
>I have your answer in there.
Answer to what? I used him as evidence that socialists torturing people could make them hate them more.

>>399342
>Literally eye-for-an-eye punishment
Ok
>>

 No.399348

>>399320
It's not luxury for luxury sake. It's functional. It's about normalizing real life while still being in prison. Some bits a little unnecessary? Maybe, but overall not really.
>a music studio?
Yes, absolutely. This place is for people who want to rehabilitate and being in the more regular prisons beforehand generally ruins your life; no contacts, little work experience, fucked up social hierarchy, and when you go from that to IRL, crime seems like a preferable solution to your lack of opportunity. By showing the potential benefits of life without crime and providing opportunities to learn those skills, they motivate the inmates to hopefully choose a better life.
There's some interesting videos from ex-US long-term inmates saying they struggled re-adjusting so much they almost/did reoffend to get back in a low-security prison with that routine and certainty, somewhere secure. Imagine going to prison in 2000, and coming out in 2010 without any experience with the changes that have happened since then.

>>399328
Pretty much. It's fucked, and the secret is, it's not Norway's fault, and probably not yours either.
>>

 No.399350

File: 1627172882843.png ( 39.69 KB , 427x400 , 1626048627032.png )

>>399348
>prisons should exist
>>

 No.399352

>>399119
Prison labour under all systems is fine by me.Liberal soft punishment is decadent and counterproductive to the point of subversion by encouraging and emboldening the criminal element which continues to exist in all regimes.
>>

 No.399354

>>399347
A couple of things to note:
1. Socialists didn't arrest, try, or convict Chauvin
2. Chauvin hasn't been tortured (as far I know, at least)
>>

 No.399361

>>399351
Embrace socialism with chinese characteristics.Embrace Dengism.We learnt from Mao's errors.That's why we arrested his entire clique after he died and rewrote our constitution.
>>

 No.399363

>>399351
fuck off FAGGOT, everyone who isn't a proletariat goes to the fucking gulags
>>

 No.399366

File: 1627173199024.png ( 353.86 KB , 444x485 , 1605828255236.png )

>>399354
I'm pretty sure the guys threatening to riot agree with socialism, and probably communism as well.
>>

 No.399369

>>399363
We shall send you Baizuo to the gulags with the uyghers
>>

 No.399371

File: 1627173272040.jpeg ( 65.86 KB , 491x491 , pol post.jpeg )

>>399366
>>

 No.399373

I'll riot in your mom's box and there's nothing you can do to stop it
>>

 No.399375

>>399334
>Hard physical labor like I said here>>399269
I still think it's unnecessary

Killing them or doing nothing is also unnecessary.

>Torture is unnecessary but you keep saying I support it when I don't
Well one of the anons I was talking to was supporting torture

Well it's not me all I'm saying is they should go through what it's like to be a prole!

>They can be punished and rehabilitated at the same time!
I mean, sure, you may be right here. I just don't think that forced hard physical labor is necessary for that.

What would be right for doing those 2 things?

Why can't Oil Baron's pick up the liter on the side of the road, all the plastics they made?
>>

 No.399377

>>399372
You will fail Baizuo
>>

 No.399382

isn't it crazy that when you start talking about the prison industrial complex, the glowies start spamming their agitation prop they got off Twitter?
>>

 No.399383

>>399377
USA + Japan + South Korea + North Korea will all unite to fight the Chink menace.
>>

 No.399384

>>399344
>Answer to what? I used him as evidence that socialists torturing people could make them hate them more.

I just told you that we are talking about punishment against porky, not petty criminals. What makes you think that we should let porkies back out into the world? I had no intention of rehabilitation for porky. A petty criminal bring rehabilitated is all great and fine, I do not believe I’m rehabilitation or freedom or political rights for porky. Basically it’s this: revolution, revolutionary government, Elon Musk arrested no due process, Elon Musk pressed into hard labor as a life sentence until death. Understand now?

I honestly don’t know why you brought McCain into this because it has nothing to do with this conversation. McCain was a soldier captured by an enemy, porky are a class of civilians punished for their very existence.
>>

 No.399387

>>399351
You’re an idiot.
>>

 No.399388

>>399376
Most inhabitants of Taiwan are Han Chinese you braindead moron.
>>

 No.399390

>>399386
Yeah bro, we all have used 4chan before and seen these images
>>

 No.399391

>>399348
oops, didn't attach vid

>>399350
implying implication
>>

 No.399392

>>399383
USA is collapsing with divisive baizuo nonsense
NK will do as we tell them
SK and Japan are decadent shitholes of the failing US hegemony
>>

 No.399393

>>399388
Those chinks are the good chinks, I want Tsai Ing Wen to be my mommy
>>

 No.399394

>>399391
fuck just attach the vid https://youtube.com/watch?v=_aMaEH2qSrM
>>

 No.399397

>>399375
>Killing them or doing nothing is also unnecessary.
I never said to do nothing.
>Why can't Oil Baron's pick up the liter on the side of the road, all the plastics they made?
I suppose he could do so, although it would ideally be voluntarily.
>I just told you that we are talking about punishment against porky, not petty criminals. What makes you think that we should let porkies back out into the world?
What makes you think porky would be much harder to rehabilitate than normal criminals?
>Basically it’s this: revolution, revolutionary government, Elon Musk arrested no due process, Elon Musk pressed into hard labor as a life sentence until death. Understand now?
At the very least you'd want due process to make sure you aren't accidentally arresting proles.
>I honestly don’t know why you brought McCain into this because it has nothing to do with this conversation. McCain was a soldier captured by an enemy, porky are a class of civilians punished for their very existence.
I was trying to demonstrate that torture can make the people you torture think less of you.
>>

 No.399399

>>399385
Germany is libshit now but increasingly anti-US. They may be looking for closer cooperation with Russia
>>

 No.399402

>>399392
Dennis Rodman is gonna seduce Kim's sister with the BBC, while Trump distracts Kim himself with western fast food, once that happens, the CCP is done for, enjoy your gain of function research viruses being released with a proper nuking of Wuhan.
>>

 No.399404

The US prison system makes the nazi death camps look like child's play
>>

 No.399406

>>399351
Co-op farms small in scale, owned by a person worked by the person are fine! Or if it's a group of handfuls of friends still a union of the worker's should own in common small production sites.
>>

 No.399407

You know, I probably could go to China, and just tell them I'm an American citizen, and they wouldn't do a fucking thing to me.
>>

 No.399409

>>399404
Well they're bad but I wouldn't say they're that bad
>>

 No.399410

>>399402
Wuhan was CIA sponsored op and part of the davos porky depopulation plan via "vaccine"
Done in Wuhan via Fauci to implicate China.
>>

 No.399411

This thread has really shown the true intentions of people here. Great post to make op.

Appreciated
>>

 No.399414

>>399410
>>399412
>china
>large penis
>>

 No.399415

Why are people arguing about China now?
>>

 No.399418

>>399411
Some of us are more or less effected by the class war. Our passion on this, is dictated by that relation.
>>

 No.399419

>>399410
>muh four pests campaign
>muh based leader killed 100 million of us
>muh Tianamen Square no one died at all bro
China gets punched in the mouth by 2030
>>

 No.399420

>>399397
You aren’t thinking. You are thinking that just random joes would be arrested as capitalists. Now tell me how can we arrest joe working at Costco for being a capitalist? A guy earning a wage? The capitalists are easy to target because there’s countless records that shows us this shit. Once porky is abolished as a class there won’t be any capitalists afterwards and so arresting someone for being porky would be ridiculous. You’re not paying attention to what I’m telling you.
>>

 No.399422

>>399409
I would say the only thing worse than targeted ethnic cleansing in labor camps would be legal targeted ethnic cleansing in labor camps
>>

 No.399425

>>399414
Me:
small penis big brain
You:
small penis small brain unless you a
basketball american
big penis very small brain
>>

 No.399426

>>399415
Shut the fuck up FAGGOT, China is based and ZERO disrepect can be tolerated against the Xi Regime.
>>

 No.399427

>>399419
We learnt from Mao's mistakes.
>>

 No.399430

>>399415
>le go to >>>/edu/ loser, /leftypol/ is a FAGGOT colony now
>>

 No.399431

>>399408
Why you have a hard on for farmers? That seems to be a contentious thing with you. Are you illiterate because earlier I saw you saying that people here said that farmers are bourgeois which is hilarious. Small farmers are peasants, pure and simple. The small farmers aren’t in danger of socialists they’re already getting fucked by big agribusiness.
>>

 No.399432

>>399431
He's a fucking retard who thinks farmers matter when we have supermarkets.
>>

 No.399433

>>399427
Until I can piss on a portrait of Mao that I own in Tianamen Square as an American on vacation, you're a little too attached to him still.
>>

 No.399435

>>399432
>when we have supermarkets.
Food just magically appears in magic supermarket big time
>>

 No.399437

>>399433
We do not tolerate disrespect from imperialist bourgeois baizuo
>>

 No.399439

>>399420
>You are thinking that just random joes would be arrested as capitalists.
You might accidentally catch a look-a-like or something. Or perhaps the records are faulty. I don't know, no justice system is 100% fool-proof.
>Once porky is abolished as a class there won’t be any capitalists afterwards and so arresting someone for being porky would be ridiculous.
They you wouldn't have anyone to arrest, period. Elon Musk wouldn't be a porky anymore after his assets have been expropriated.

>>399422
They're not doing ethnic cleansing though.
>>

 No.399446

>>399439
>They're not doing ethnic cleansing though.
sure bro, it's not like blacks don't die everyday due to malnourishment while in private prisons
>>

 No.399449

File: 1627174475762.jpg ( 281.35 KB , 1262x1295 , b05f77eda03dd2080551c0cac2….jpg )

>>399437
I'm gonna go to China and impregnate a ton of Chink bitches summer of 2022, I'll be livestreaming it and making threads here. Enjoy your future Elliot Rodgers singlehandedly destabilizing your country.
>>399446
Don't forget that Margaret Sanger was pro abortion, THAT's what they don't teach in schools, heh heh heh.
>>

 No.399451

>>399439
Now you’re arguing semantics. Of course no justice system is perfect and it will never be, and neither are records. But 95 percent accuracy is better than no accuracy.
>>

 No.399454

>>399228
the new DDR poster is a huge retard
>>

 No.399456

>>399449
We'll be waiting for you.
>>

 No.399457

>>399446
That's not what ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing is when you expel people from a region on the basis of their ethnic or religious background.
>>

 No.399460

>>399457
How isn't it? Are you fucking blind?
>>

 No.399461

>>399119
What are prisoners gonna do, just sit around and be bums? Getting them to work gets them some discipline and prepares them for when they get out
>>

 No.399464

>>399448
Lmao you really are a dumbass. The people who be hurting the small guy are the big guy, why is that so hard for your brain to understand? Are you a libertarian? What Nazi is legit a libertarian? That’s a contradiction right there. By the way, most farmers that are small farmers are usufruct “owners” renters essentially and so usufructuary shit is essentially part of socialism. Nothing wrong with a small farmer of a usufruct contributing his labor to the greater whole of the socialist society.
>>

 No.399465

>>399462
Stop replying to me you shitty false flag
>>

 No.399470


>>399467
There is no secret illuminati controlling the world, it's all in the open. Will you turn your head just enough to see it, or will you keep burying your head into infographics?
>>

 No.399473

>>399351
>Not muh heckin’ small bizerinooos!
Most American Farmers are fundamentally petty booj. So were the historical Kulaks.
>>

 No.399477

>>399460
They're aren't trying to expel blacks, or any other ethnic group, from an area
>>

 No.399479

>>399470
>There is no secret illuminati controlling the world
Who said that?Elitist bourgeois porky technocrats control the West and much of the world - but not for long.We Chinese will liberate the world with superior Dengist ideology and economy.
>>

 No.399480

File: 1627175165333.jpg ( 131.1 KB , 616x900 , нет.jpg )

>>

 No.399481

>>399479
Stop, you're not funny
>>

 No.399482

>>399477
Oh yeah? Where do you think they go? Back to their house? Again, I ask you, are you blind?
>>

 No.399483

>>399477
But they sure are doing a lot to make that makes it harder for them to live both within prison and without.
>>

 No.399489

>>399482
After they're released that's where they usually go, or at least their old neighborhoods. I am not aware of incarceration causing black populations to fall anywhere.

>>399483
Still not expulsion. Expulsion is when you force a bunch of people out of an area and don't let them come back.
>>

 No.399490

>>399448
>Laughs in India
>>

 No.399493

>>399489
>Ethnic cleansing is only when expulsion
As an aside, I love your angloid brainrot.
>>

 No.399496

>>399489
>profiling and enslaving african americans is working as intended
kys lib
>>

 No.399498

>>399494
>>399497
You're not funny either
>>

 No.399500

>>399494
Your seething, it makes me come hard.
>>

 No.399501

>>399494
No but we will force you to work in such a garden till your hands bleed.
>>

 No.399508

>>399493
That's literally what it is…
>The Final Report of the Commission of Experts established pursuant to Security Council Resolution 780 defined ethnic cleansing as "a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas".[18]

Killing people of a certain group en masse with the goal of destroying them in whole or in part is genocide. Blacks aren't being subject to genocide either.

>>399496
That's still not ethnic cleansing
>>

 No.399510

>>399119
I mean that’s literally cherry picking you’re doing there. Prison labor in the US and community work are two entirely different thing. Prison labor recently had to risk their lives quelling fires for free in LA. Prison labor also brings huge profits to private hands that in turn use that money to lobby for the police and hostile policies in arresting minor offenses to create a never ending free labor force.

On the other hand, Soviet gulags had 80% of people there for high offenses like rape and murder. Only the other 20% were political crimes. While the rest like theft or robbery got put into regular prisons. Gay bait thread.
>>

 No.399514

File: 1627175913133.jpg ( 850.68 KB , 1579x1242 , DCDAPYW.jpg )

>>399507
>>

 No.399524

>>399504
Again,
>Indian Farmers: Working for subsistence wages, can’t afford to eat the crops they grow, forced to sell to agribusinesses
<Burgershart Farmers: Subsidized by the government, highly mechanized, has central american farmhands
These are the exact same to you
>>

 No.399532

>>399514
More baizuo fetishisation of negroes
>>

 No.399533

>>399510
>Prison labor recently had to risk their lives quelling fires for free in LA.
Gulags were pretty dangerous too:
>According to Nicolas Werth, the yearly mortality rate in the Soviet concentration camps strongly varied, reaching 5% (1933) and 20% (1942–1943) but dropping considerably in the post-war years (about 1 to 3% per year at the beginning of the 1950s).[16][17] In 1956 the mortality rate dropped to 0.4%.[18]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag
In fact, US inmates, as of 2018, had lower mortality rates (0.344% per year)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/220987/mortality-rate-of-state-prisoners-in-the-us/
>Soviet gulags had 80% of people there for high offenses like rape and murder. Only the other 20% were political crimes. While the rest like theft or robbery got put into regular prisons. Gay bait thread.
Can you provide a source for this? I have heard that most of the prisoners were petty criminals, but I have not heard it was mostly people who committed high offenses.
>>

 No.399536

>>399524
><Burgershart Farmers: Subsidized by the government, highly mechanized, has central american farmhands
Tbf, most of the subsidies go to agribusiness, not your small family farms
>>

 No.399541

>>399536
> Subsidized by the government, highly mechanized
Imagine being against technological progress
>>

 No.399542

>>399533
Pretty hard conditions when you have a famine and a war.

And again, the United States and Russia at the time did not have a comparable level of development. You might as well compare it to Latin America.
>>

 No.399543

>>399541
Get in the John Deere reaper box, wagie
>>

 No.399544

>>399541
>Imagine being this illiterate
>>

 No.399545

>>399542
>but muh special pleading
Pretty weak comrade
>>

 No.399548

>>399544
>Imagine being this willfully obtuse
>>

 No.399549

>>399543
The reaper box is ultima efficient comrade
Ultima productive forces
>>

 No.399550

>>399542
Regardless of the exact reasons for their harshness, my point is that gulags were not a walk in the park in comparison to American prisons. Also bear in mind that the gulag mortality rates were much higher than modern US prison mortality rates even during years without wars or famines. They only got close to modern American prison mortality rates in 1956, their last year of operation.
>>

 No.399553

>>399545
>Telling the truth is special pleading
Okay, brainlet
>>

 No.399555

>>399553
The poster you are replying to has changed his flag about 3 times this thread
>>

 No.399556

>>399550
And?
>>

 No.399557

>>399555
I’m not surprised.
>>

 No.399558

>>399511
YWNBAW
>>

 No.399560

American chain gangs were just as brutal as anything ever dished out in the Soviet gulag system.
>>

 No.399562

>>399553
>but muh special pleading is the truth
>doesn't know what the special pleading fallacy is
Sad
>>

 No.399565

File: 1627177074514.jpg ( 4.13 KB , 255x255 , Analytical Philosophy Box.JPG )

>>399562
>Muh fallacies
Into the box you go
>>

 No.399566

>>399562
lmao we have a stalin debate bro arguing against gulags
>>

 No.399567

>>399565
>hurr durr logic is by-passable by my dogma
Weak
>>

 No.399570

>>399556
People here are claiming that gulag workers had it better than American prison workers. I am providing evidence that is not the case.
>>

 No.399572

>>399351
>wtf is a kulak?
>>

 No.399573

>>399566
I'm all for gulags but against weak arguments from effete liberals larping as marxists
>>

 No.399576

There is nothing wrong with it.
The problem with US prison Labour is that their renting out peoples labour to make fucking hand soap to a friend of Chris Cuomo, While prison Labour in socialist republics was harnessed to build fucking canals and terraform marshlands and swamps
>>

 No.399581

>>399576
is the correct answer
>>

 No.399587

>>399567
>Facts and Logic!
Like Pottery
>>

 No.399590

>>399587
>passive aggressive feminine snark
Right on cue
>>

 No.399594

>>399570
Has anyone been doing that in this thread? And not arguing that more people are imprisoned in the US as a fraction of the world population for far more asinine reasons?
>>

 No.399595

File: 1627177657323.jpg ( 119.7 KB , 702x871 , Keep Coping.jpg )

>>399590
This you?
>>

 No.399598

>>399181
Does it not incentivize the same under socialism? Sure it's kot for personal profit, but Siberia could really use a new railroad, and we need a new bridge into Afghanistan, and Stalin might get mad if we go over budget again…
>>

 No.399601

>>399594
>But muh poor thieves,rapists and murderers
Liberals make me sick.This is why liberals get the bullet too - especially american liberals.And anarkiddies too.
>>

 No.399604

>>399595
>everyone who I dislike is a trans nazi
Kek. Retard.
>>

 No.399611

>>399601
What are you even talking about?
>>

 No.399617

>>399611
>What are you even talking about?
The weak,effete,liberal brainrot you're all swimming in and can't see.
>but muh poor criminals
Fuck criminal vermin and lumpenprole scum. Prison and gulags are the correct places for such people.Punishment and rehabilitation where possible.
>>

 No.399625

>>399576
Prison labor in the United States has been used to build roads and shit, so I am not sure that it is any less productive than Soviet prison labor. Besides, free labor can be used to build all of those things, so you still don't need prison labor to begin with.

>>399594
Yes. See >>399225 and >>399510
>>

 No.399626

>>399598
Except the numbers don’t pan out for that and stalin literally deposed one of his heads of NKVD for having too many people arrested
>>

 No.399628

much funnier
>>

 No.399629

>>399626
No.For having the wrong people arrested.
>>

 No.399630

>>399334
>IIRC correctly John McCain was tortured by North Vietnam for awhile.
His prison guards and several fellow inmates deny this.
>>

 No.399631

>>399630
Source?
>>

 No.399632

>>399626
It's a hypothetical example of how prison labour can be incentivized despite no personal profit.
>>

 No.399687

>>399446
>implying whites don't die in prison too
>>

 No.399691

>>399687
if your policies target 10 blacks for every 2 whites that's still ethnic cleansing
>>

 No.399700

>>399617
Weed smokers should be shot by a firing squad
>>

 No.399704

>>399700
Meant to greentext
>>

 No.399709

>>399632
And I can make hypotheticals about the moon being made of cheese
>>

 No.399715

>>399625
>Saying that in gulags the purpose was to detain and possibly reform criminals and dangerous elements
>Saying that most people in gulags were rotten bastards and not politicals
I shiggy diggy
>>

 No.399780

This thread is a shit show.
>>

 No.399926

>>399137
nice LARP kid
>>

 No.399951

>"You hate this thing as it exists under these regulations, yet you won't hate another thing that would exist under completely different regulations and that I make equal rhetorically by referring to it with the same words. Curious."
>3248247283 replies

You all need to go hang yourselves.
>>

 No.399984

>>399701
Looks like the only who denies McCain specifically being tortured was one of his prison guards. I would have to investigate this further if I want to know what really happened.

Also not sure what I think if this website when it has headlines like "U.S. Intelligence Coverup? Newly Declassified FBI File on Nirvana’s Kurt Cobain Compounds Evidence Implicating his Wife’s Role in his Murder"
>>

 No.399996

>>399261
>But were gulag inmates treated any better than prison laborers in capitalist countries? The yearly mortality rate for gulags in 1933 was 5% in 1933.
Anon, you do know what happened in 1933, right?
>>

 No.400006

>>399453
>>399462
>>399467
>>399479
Laziest flaseflag in a while.
>>

 No.400014

File: 1627187677571-0.png ( 184.91 KB , 942x567 , f89b1a547fa497d1f2658edfb0….png )

File: 1627187677571-1.png ( 259.3 KB , 942x609 , a0695f08fcd38da5b963cf2944….png )

>>399533
>(about 1 to 3% per year at the beginning of the 1950s).[16][17] In 1956 the mortality rate dropped to 0.4%.[18]
>In fact, US inmates, as of 2018, had lower mortality rates (0.344% per year)
The difference between 0.4% and 0.344% is rather negligible.
>>

 No.400147

>>400136
>It wasn't just 1933. Here's a chart showing every year (Note: exact numbers vary by source)
This just shows fluctuations that do coincide with major events occurring which would cause what you would expect, that is to say mortality jumping in 1933 during the famine and mortality jumping again during onset of the war and after, with in heavily declining post 1950. I'm also going to have to question some of these morality rates, because it doesn't match up with the rates from Getty.
>>

 No.400991

>>399137
>Anarchists will ferment the soil of the gulags, by the way. Extremely excited to see you rats hit the ground.
>excited from death
You sure you arent a fascist?
>>

 No.402711

>>399119
Because the Gulags had limited sentences and were using people whose criminal actions made them endebted to society, to do dangerous and harder work than ordinary, law-abiding people, thus getting economic goals constructed and not risking more merited people's lives.
>inb4 political repression
Over 75% of prisoners in the Gulag were there for criminal charges, not political treason, and to assume all political charges were false is to assume that dissidents did not exist in the USSR and that said dissidents were so unaffected by the Soviet government that they wouldn't resort to terrorism, conspiracies or treason, which in a population of over 100 million people is a statistical impossibility.
>>

 No.406375

Fun read
>>

 No.406546

>>402711

over 75% of prisoners in the US are there for criminal charges and are actually guilty. You cry boohoo for them getting paid nothing to pick cotton or pave roads with minimal deaths/injuries but cheer for the criminals of the soviets building roads and railroad tracks while dying like flies.
>>

 No.406558

>>399119
Its A-OK under both because lumpen criminals are leeches but Americans are hypocrites because they have their own gulag system.
>>

 No.406590

File: 1627448857144-0.png ( 184.91 KB , 942x567 , custodial population 34 to….png )

File: 1627448857144-1.png ( 259.3 KB , 942x609 , custodial population 45 to….png )

File: 1627448857144-2.jpg ( 76.46 KB , 658x580 , GULAG Colony Kulak.JPG )

File: 1627448857144-3.jpg ( 76.57 KB , 610x538 , Gulag Colony Population.JPG )

File: 1627448857144-4.jpg ( 43.14 KB , 606x339 , Sentence Length.JPG )

>>406546
not true
labour camp inmates further received pay and rehabilitation and a job after release
>>

 No.406799

I often see capitalists decry prison labor in socialist countries, particularly in the Soviet Union, describing it as a form of modern slavery. However, I often see these same capitalists turn around and praise prison labor in capitalist countries, most notably the United States. Why is this case? Why can't I oppose prison labor under all economic systems?
>>

 No.407425

Quite simple, it's targeted at different classes. Capitalist prisons ensure the continued slavery of the working class, production for profit of the capitalists who own the means of production. Socialist reformist labour has a different content. It ensured the moral, ideological and physical re-education of counterrevolutionaries, exploiters, former bourgeoisie who do not accept proletarian power. Their labour is used for the benefit of the working class, by building canals for example.
>>

 No.407479

its very different and the fact you dont understand says more about you
>>

 No.413332

>>399310
muslim law is more based about punishment,beating, or execution is better than wasting taxpayer money into this, most prisioners come out as even worse human beings and lets not talk about inocents that bacome criminals after they go into prision for several years
>>

 No.413495

some criminals deserve slavery to help pay off their debts to their victims
>>

 No.413504

>>399348
>It's about normalizing real life while still being in prison
Is this always something you should do? Some people deserve only a lifetime of forced labour, just never let them out, or alternatively kill them. A lot of criminals are simply cold and calculating predators that will do whatever they want when no one is looking, they will never change, only convince you they have

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