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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1627138638110-0.png ( 376.58 KB , 1235x823 , Xi.png )

File: 1627138638110-1.jpeg ( 436.02 KB , 1920x1697 , China Poverty Over Time.jpeg )

File: 1627138638110-2.png ( 55.86 KB , 683x497 , China Reliance.png )

File: 1627138638110-3.png ( 39.15 KB , 938x650 , GDP 2007 vs 2050.PNG )

 No.398345[Last 50 Posts]

Can somebody explain me what the problem is with "revisionism"?
Marx couldn't figure out everything, we have to innovate Marxism, introduce new ideas and concepts from lived experiences, we can't follow dogmatic principles that restrain our range of action and then be surprised when innovative Marxist countries perform way better than the rest of the world, including us.
China is becoming richer and richer while still following core Marxist principles, the height of the economy is controlled by the State in strategic areas, and the private sector is going to become more and more integrated into the state sector, the difference between the two are blurring.

The Leftists screeching about "revisionism" are impotent, weak and pathetic. They will never build something as beautiful as modern China, they will always be focused on petty issues like the "revisionists inside the other party" or the cultural issue of the day.
There is no hope for Marxism-Leninism in the West unless we openly adopt Chinese-style revisionism and actually start to advocate for real material change. Being a Communist is about building the productive forces toward Socialism and Communism, the material relations of productions will automatically follow our level of development, which is why the CPC is advocating for Marxism more than ever, because they are close to building actual Socialism in China.

We should stop associating with anarchists and the other dregs of society, we need innovators, entrepreneurs, engineers and of course workers (but a big part of them - 60% in my home country for instance - have fallen for right-wing populism so most "leftists" hate them). For Leftism to rise again it must take on a new class character, we must embrace the fact that the middle-class is also the working class now and we must fight for their interest. This mean we need to take inspiration from the Three Represents of Jiang Zemin but of course this will trigger the "anti-revisionists" lefties despite them agreeing implicitly with the concept.

Leftism isn't idealism, we won't convert the working class back to Communism using old-school rhetoric, advocating for LGBTQ rights won't help us too since not only 60% of the working class is opposed to it, neoliberals and socdems parties have already appropriated this issue for themselves. We need a new platform, focused on building the productive forces and making everyone richer, strengthen the nation and promote the people's self-determination, socialize the strategic sectors of our economy while letting the entrepreneurs innovate in small-scale privates markets, encourage the rights of workers and protect their living standards against the irrationality of the market. Despite being common sense, these positions will bring the wrath of the dogmatic leftists on me.
WHAT WE NEED ISNT A WAY TO APPEAL TO THE WORKING CLASS THROUGH PETTY DISCOURSE
WE NEED TO HAVE A PLATFORM DEDICATED ENTIRELY TO THE NEEDS OF THE WORKING CLASS WITH NO IDEOLOGICAL BULLSHITTING THAT MADE MARXISM SO DIVIDED IN THE FIRST PLACE
>>

 No.398350

>>398345
>We should stop associating with anarchists and the other dregs of society, we need innovators, entrepreneurs, engineers
PMC Gang assemble, technocracy shall lead the working class to a better future
>>

 No.398358

>>398350
The politburos and nomenclatura of aes literally resembled PMC more than any other modern group.
>>

 No.398362

Fat redpill here be aware
>>

 No.398387

>>398358
>The politburos and nomenclatura of aes literally resembled PMC more than any other modern group.
But Anon, don't you know those were REVISIONISTS??? In fact the Soviet Union magically stopped being Socialist after Stalin's death in 1953 because while I don't believe in the Great Man Theory of History, the fact of the matter is that the Soviet Union could only be considered Socialist when HE was the leader of it. The Soviet Union after Stalin was nothing less than a HITLERITE STYLE DICTATORSHIP because it didn't respect the abstract standards I hold this country to. And no, my standards won't change, I am so smart in fact that reality MUST change to fit MY vision.
>>

 No.398391

>>398387
Shut your fucking mouth, opportunist
>>

 No.398396

File: 1627139705827.jpg ( 2.31 MB , 2880x3000 , CHAZ Mugshots 1.jpg )

>>398391
>Shut your fucking mouth, opportunist
>>

 No.398401

>>398396
These aren't nearly as bad as the other set
Still, based
>>

 No.398402

>>398345
They probably equate revisionism as bringing capitalism into a communist government (like what Deng did after visiting Singapore)? Or that revisionism corrupted traditional Marxist ideals (Marxism should be rigid, it shouldn't change).
>>

 No.398425

>>398345
>There's no hope for Marxism-Leninism
>Unless we go against Marxism-Leninism

LoL kys dengist, Mao was right, you should have been purged.
>>

 No.398440

>>398396
>Gets called out for his bullshit
<posts cope
Like pottery
>>

 No.398464

Ultimate dengoid cringe
>>

 No.398472

Most leftists misinterpret Marx in the sense that they attribute some sort of morals to categories to his system of political economy, when Marx's whole point wasn't "you know commodity production? It's bad." by itself, but rather, he tried to lay down why it leads to some inherent contradictions within the capitalist mode of production and what effects it has on what we would now call the human psyche. So when people screech "did you know China has capitalists??" The sound answer should really be "so what" because Marxism is not a religion but a science. Unless you can explain, why entertaining a private sector that is subservient to the public sector and the state is inherently bad without resorting to morals, "anti-revisionism" as a tendency is nothing more than a LARP considering it was born out of squabbles between the CPC and the CPSU to justify each of their own zigzag courses in foreign policy, nothing more.

The word "revisionism" has lost all meaning today. What is the CPC "revising" anyway? A certain policy, like inviting foreign capital investment, is not more "revisionist" than having a reactionary stance towards gay people, for example. Nobody would doubt the "anti-revisionism" of, say, Hoxha because he didn't allow the Christopher Street Day in Tirana. Marxism isn't prescriptive within the categories of policy, it's just a method of analysis.

Many leftoids also take their entire knowledge of dialectical materialism from this one meme infograph. I don't believe that people who claim just because you allow for market activity the entire state apparatus immediately turns bourgeois have ever seriously read Marx, Dietzgen or even Stalin for that matter, but got their knowledge from memes and online pamphlets of political groups mainly operating on Discord. I think what's happening in China is beautiful, and instead or being bitter and cynical all the time and LARPing I focus on my own country and sit on the sidelines happily as I observe the successes of Chinese socialism.

>>398396
What the fuck.
>>

 No.398485

>>398472
>Private sector subservient to the public sector
This is a cope that ignores how a mode of production affects political structures more than political structures affect the mode of production. Textbook base and superstructure. The idea of any real separation between “private” and “public” spheres is a liberal cope.
>>

 No.398486

Not a single person in this thread understands what revisionism means, and the fact that some think it means "when you revise or update" Marx shows how many pseuds really do lurk here.
>>

 No.398487

>>398486
/thread
>>

 No.398490

>>398486
please explain then
>>

 No.398495

>dengoids get beat out in every thread
>simply make another thread
>>

 No.398498

Oops, look like I was out of the dialectic for a moment, it seems a new innovation of Marxism has appeared, instead of calling people "revisionists", petty leftists will now call us "dengoid". My bad, I should have used that as the thread title to reflect the current evolution of Marxist thought.
>>

 No.398501

>>398440
You didn't call me out for anything, you just told me I was a "opportunist", I gave you a reply on the same level of discourse as your first post. Now start making effortpost trying to debunk my ideas or get out of OUR way.
>>

 No.398503

>>398485
>This is a cope that ignores how a mode of production affects political structures more than political structures affect the mode of production. Textbook base and superstructure. The idea of any real separation between “private” and “public” spheres is a liberal cope.
You have a caricatural understanding of Marx, your essentialisation doesn't reflect the nuance of reality. Since you are the one who is claiming that you can't have a socialist superstructure with a market-based base then you have the burden of proof on this issue. You can explain your position using your own logic but I'd like to have some empirical evidence that complete your assertion.
>>

 No.398505

>>398486
Go ahead, enlighten us
>>

 No.398511

>>398498
How’s the weather at Langley Dengbot? Which communist struggle will you crush next?
>>

 No.398514

>>398485
That's not "textbook base and superstructure", that's actually revisionism, because nowhere in Marx, Engels, Dietzgen, Lenin, etc. do you find such a mechanistic retardation. Please explain to me how relations of production are not also part of the superstructure? Are laws part of the superstructure? This vulgar materialism leads to absolute brainrot where you end up with the forces of production being the only factor that necessarily constitutes the base.
>The idea of any real separation between “private” and “public” spheres is a liberal cope.
You are right, there somewhat isn't, but nonetheless the nationalization of the commanding heights of the economy to transcend capitalism was something that Marx and Lenin, for example, advocated. Capitalism socializes the means of production, what it does not socialize is the appropriation of proceeds of production - or, how Marx defined a mode of production, as the mode in which the surplus product takes on its social form in terms of allocation. What is missing in imperialist state-monopoly capitalism, which is already socialized, which is already planned, is the subjective factor of a revolutionary break, which China achieved, to disentangle the impersonal relations of monopoly capitalism and finance capital to benefit the needs of the public. Or otherwise, as through the socialization of production, the primacy of politics is established, objectively political relations merge with economic relations (relations of production), and must - in that mechanical model - necessarily be considered a part of the superstructure.
>>

 No.398521

>>398495
What thread are you referring to? Most "anti-Dengoids" are literally grug the caveman level of dumb, at least on this board.
>>

 No.398524

>>398511
Which "communist struggle" is currently going on? Go ahead, name one. And no, it's not your local "mutual aid" group that does charity or your local mentally ill anarchists squatting in some ruined building.
>>

 No.398525

>>398490
>>398505
Revisionism is when you take the actual core analysis of Marx and attempt to substitute or remove the fundamental parts of it that make it what it is with what is effectively bourgeoisie theory, while claiming to be operating as Marxists and in regards to Marx's analysis itself. For example, if one were to take Marx's analysis of commodities and money, and then make the claim that Marx's analysis is fully in line with the view that money functions as no critical part of capitalism, and that we should preserve the use of money wholesale as Marxists, then this would constitute revisionism, as it's taking a core part of Marx's analysis and fundamentally making it no longer the analysis itself.
>>

 No.398531

>>398524
>he denies the dengoid allegiance with the idf
>he denies the dengoid allegiance with the contras
>he denies the dengoid allegiance with duterte
>he denies the dengoid allegiance with unita
>he denies the dengoid allegiance with the mujihadeen
Pathetic
>>

 No.398533

>>398521
The anti Maoist thread, the Maoist thread, all the thread where Maoists reign supreme, I.e all of them
>>

 No.398536

>>398531
I deny what? Don't answer to me with memes or schizo posting, actually write out what you think.
>>

 No.398539

>>398533
I don't enter that cuckshed, but if you seriously argue that Maoism, considering its track record and its manifestation in our times, is a sound and sincere intellectual counter to modern Marxism-Leninism, you are delusional.
>>

 No.398540

So far only the dengoids have made solid posts detailing their arguments on this thread, meanwhile the Maoists can only screech and cope. Mao bros, be better
>>

 No.398551

>>398536
Dengoids are CIA allies
>>

 No.398552

AAAAHHHHH I'M GONNA PRODUCEE AAAAAA
I'M PRODUUUCIIING AAAAAAHHHH
>>

 No.398553

>>398540
>he says
>from Langley
>>

 No.398558

>>398514
What do you mean by laws? Because conversation on the position of a “law” often fails to properly break them down into their component parts. While I do affirm that laws often just codify existing practices into an explicit set of rules, “laws” also include the ability to enforce them, which falls onto the side of political superstructure, along with inculcating a specific type of social or ethical value.

TL;DR Laws are the means of reinforcing preexisting relations and sometimes adapting them in response to social and cultural contexts. However they are not the relations in themselves.
>>

 No.398559

>>398539
Modern Marxism Leninism is Maoism, every active revolution. Unless you seriously think building Israel is revolutionary
>>

 No.398560

>>398551
And you are a pedophile who beats his wife. See? I can do the same thing, faggot.
>>

 No.398562

>>398560
Except there is history and sources for china being a CIA ally, there is nothing for what you claim
>>

 No.398571

>>398559
Okay. And how does China prevent Maoists from their localized terrorism? I didn't see the Naxalites leading the farmers protests in India.

>>398562
Maoists have a long history of working with Western intelligence serivces, uygha. There were literally pamphlets produced by Maoist groups in the 70s and 80s advocating for the nuclear armament of NATO as a "defensive alliance" against "Soviet social-imperialism". Don't you fucking cop-jacket me, asshole.
>>

 No.398582

>>398558
>What do you mean by laws?
Codified laws in the way in which they exist since Napoleon's code civil.
>Laws are the means of reinforcing preexisting relations and sometimes adapting them in response to social and cultural contexts.
In other words - they function as the mirror of the relations of production. Once laws are not enforced, they simply become morals. So there is a materialist character to laws because otherwise, social relations which Marxists traditionally view as part of the base, would also just be part of the superstructure.
>>

 No.398584

>>398571
Not just Maoists, but yes dengoids armed duterte who is an anti communist who kills communists.

Dengoids also sold weapons to the contras

They are also actively building Israel

They also backed the mujihadeen

Among other things

Cope
>>

 No.398586

>>398503
I guess China’s immune to the tendency for the rate of profit to fall because they have a DotP. My mistake.
>>

 No.398587

>>398559
Also I don't know why you constantly have to mention Israel, Israel's continued existence doesn't hinge on an East Asian country but rather on the ridiculous support from North America and Europe in combination of the inability of the UN to actually enforce international law, of which China is in favor of.
>>

 No.398589

>>398525
And if anyone is wondering, the actual arguments made by the deng baiter would constitute revisionism, because the assumptions it's built on in regards to capitalism is fundamentally non-marxist. It ignore capitalisms relation to the state, how the mechanisms of production actually work, the necessity of communism operating world historically, and the inevitable trajectory of capitalism itself, a trajectory you can't avoid in the long run in regards to crisis simply because you have government intervention. China decides to play with the fire that is capitalism domestically rather then perpetuate revolution abroad, and that does have consequences in terms of actually building communism. China has the means to, as of right now, centralize production, suffocate the west, and instigate revolution abroad, but it doesn't because it is perpetually in a Catch 22 with its own bourgeoisie, one which exists only because it wishes to keep them. There is zero "extended NEP" argument to make anymore, either China can fufill it's obligations or we can throw the dice every year with the hope it doesn't fall with everyone else when capitalism hits another crisis and it's forced to make the choice between the bourgeoisie already embedded deep into the foundation of it's system or actually pursuing communism. All it takes is one capital strike and a swayed population to have the bourgeoisie seize the gun from the table.
>>

 No.398590

>>398571
>oooh some pamphlets oooh
Not really the same as being actively involved in the slaughter of communists all over the world, including the contras in Nicaragua.

It’s not copjacketing when you actively advocate for anti communist mercenaries, that’s just you advocating for the CIA openly
>>

 No.398591

>>398472
good post
>>

 No.398592

>>398587
Kek, China paying lip service at the UN doesn’t excuse the fact they are building Israeli infrastructure, neither does the fact America does it, merely shows the depth and breadth of US/Chinese allegiances
>>

 No.398597

>>398584
>Not just Maoists, but yes dengoids armed duterte who is an anti communist who kills communists.
At best you call him anti-Maoist then because the actual Communist Party in the Philippines is just fine. The NPA is in conflict with the state since decades, not with the emergence or Duterte. You know, the USSR also delivered weapons to Maoists or even fought Maoists directly, like in the war in Afghanistan where they fought Maoists aligned with the mujaheddin.
>They also backed the mujihadeen
So did the fucking Maoists, you incredible idiot!

>>398586
>le falling rate of profit
Stop believing in the "falling rate of profit" in this messianistic way (e.g. stop being informed by YouTube videos). Marx himself noted the increase of the organic composition of capital as they main contradiction of capitalism, the falling rate of profit is a consequence of it, but Marx himself already noted several counter-tendencies to it. Yes, the falling rate of profit is real, but it does not work like "oh so you have markets that must mean your profit rate is gonna fall". Actually fucking read Marx.
>>

 No.398599

>>398472
>subservient to the public sector
But dengoids said the building of Israeli infrastructure wasn’t the fault of the Chinese state? I am confused, which is it?
>>

 No.398602

>>398597
>the Maoists who fought with the mujihadeen
You mean the ones funded by dengist china ultimate kek rests
>>

 No.398604

>>398599
Okay, so you are out of arguments so you keep memeing about Israel. Stop using the suffering of Palestinians as a shield for your retarded politics.
>>

 No.398607

>>398597
Nice of you to completely ignore Nicaragua tho, guess you can’t find a smear to hit the Sandinistas with
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 No.398610

>>398602
Yeah almost as if politics is not like the fucking NFL but actually pretty complicated. In any case, you guys are incapable of responding to arguments, all you do is using excessive rhetoric to invoke appeals to emotion, like instead of responding why I think China heads towards socialism you answer me with "THEY ARE KILLING COMMUNISTS! THEY BUILD ISRAEL!" It's pretty pathetic dude.
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 No.398611

>>398582
Except that laws just don’t stop being enforced or change for no reason. Moreover, multiple types of legislation can be used to reinforce the same relation in a wide variety of contexts. Wanna get rid of labor regulations? You don’t have employees, you have “contractors”.
>>

 No.398612

>>398610
>killing communists is a purely emotional affair

>building Israeli ports is also purely emotional

Actually, both are material support of imperialism
>>

 No.398613

>>398607
Yes an Mao supported Pinochet. You can harp on the geopolitical divides of the Cold War all day long but we are living in the 21st century now.
>>

 No.398619

>>398613
Specifically what did Mao do to support Pinochet and during what era kek

This isn’t a response to the Nicaragua question, it’s a deflection
>>

 No.398621

>>398612
I deny that "China is killing communists". Having trade relations with reactionary states is a consequence of socialism not being internationally established. The USSR had trade relations with many countries which killed communists (Libya, Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Syria).
>>

 No.398623

Oh and duterte literally does drills with the US military.

Imagine not knowing the war on drugs is an imperial war kek
>>

 No.398624

>>398619
What do you fucking imply? That I cheer on China's foreign policy mistakes by not supporting Sandanistas? I'm saying your black and white view of geopolitics is nothing, it's useless, and only used to invoke emotional responses without having to answer to arguments.
>>

 No.398627

>>398621
Except the ussr also supported the communist parties of those countries, and went out of its way to stop those people killing communists. Neeext. I also don’t think USSR foreign policy was perfect
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 No.398628

>>398624
I asked you two direct questions. Answer them, and also give your opinion on Chinese support of the CIA backed contras
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 No.398630

File: 1627147329758-0.jpg ( 36.61 KB , 640x427 , e6b8981d-e522-4b77-8ec5-50….jpg )

File: 1627147329758-1.jpg ( 212.36 KB , 1148x815 , Kissinger,_Ford_and_Mao,_1….jpg )

The Maoists in here using post-Mao foreign policy as arguments against "Dengism" are retarded, because PRC foreign policy was fucking stupid long before Deng. It's a completely moot point.

>>398619
>This isn’t a response to the Nicaragua question, it’s a deflection
Bringing up Nicaragua, Israel, Afghanistan, etc. in the first place is a gish gallop deflection from the thread topic. Chinese foreign policy was far from perfect under Mao and it's still far from perfect. So what? Now engage with the arguments you're trying to avoid.
>>

 No.398632

>>398630
>handshake photos
Kek yes many world leaders of all stripes have these.


The point is, dengist policy remains shit, and every Maoist accepts that Mao fell off in his later years
>>

 No.398633

>>398630
I will stop bringing up dengoids foriegn policy when dengoids admit china cannot be called anti imperialist
>>

 No.398638

>>398597
Except those countertendencies are at best short term phenomena.
>>

 No.398643

>>398597
>Stop believing in the "falling rate of profit" in this messianistic way (e.g. stop being informed by YouTube videos). Marx himself noted the increase of the organic composition of capital as they main contradiction of capitalism, the falling rate of profit is a consequence of it, but Marx himself already noted several counter-tendencies to it. Yes, the falling rate of profit is real, but it does not work like "oh so you have markets that must mean your profit rate is gonna fall". Actually fucking read Marx.
There is literally zero counter tendency that can prevent the falling rate of profit in the long run,save fro if you can literally generate people out of thin air for no cost to anyone. How about you read Marx you fag? A counter tendency does not mean the ability to permanently increase the RoP, it means that such things can cause small blips back up before the whole thing falls again.
>>

 No.398647

>>398643
Goids only pretend to have read Marx literally zero of them have
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 No.398648

>>398632
>Kek
>>

 No.398656

>>398648
Problem?
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 No.398657

>>398597
>Stop believing in the "falling rate of profit" in this messianistic way
The falling rate of profit is diminishing returns on the capitalist mode of production. It's has empirical evidence, there is no more denying the FRoP.
The Chinese bourgeoisie will get reaped by the tendency of the rate of profit to fall, just like it does in capitalist countries. China as a hole will probably be fine because it's run by a Communist party that understands that modes of production are historically limited, and they will transition from pre-socialism with capitalist characteristic to a higher stage of socialism when capitalism kicks the bucket. Look how much they managed to change their system during the periods From Mao to Deng to Xi.
>>

 No.398660

>>398657
Yeh they sure privatised a lot of stuff didn’t they
>>

 No.398685

fuck off bernsteinoid
>>

 No.398707

>>398660
They got technology transfer and an epic economic rise out of this. And their poverty reduction rates are phenomenal. They didn't loose any political power and the country didn't become destabilized as a result from liberalizing markets. So they did pretty well.
As far as the privatizations go, they didn't loose control over the economy, theirs is still state directed.
>>

 No.398717

File: 1627150406809.mp4 ( 1.46 MB , 878x576 , 1626084691190.mp4 )

>>

 No.398759

Modern revisionists are the new anarchists of this community.
They too hate doing the basic reading (Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin) to illuminate to themselves the problems and complexities of our times. More specifically, these anons notably lack a basic understanding of imperialism, indeed they seem completely incapable of wrapping their heads around it whenever it becomes the subject of discussion. In reality however most MLs have a critical support for the social-imperialists for the aim of the further destabilization of the imperial core (and Gonzaloid ultras are a negligible ‰ of the anti-revisionists in total btw, they're just very loud on this site the last few months). Unlike most MLs, however, the Dengists on here (and yes that is a very apt description of their vulgar and dogmatic ideological degeneracy) display a lack of even the most simplest of critical thinking skills and just carry out blind, obsessive devotion to whatever the revisionist clique of the CPC are doing at any given time, no matter how regressive, no matter how social-imperialist (but again, this is a blindspot for them due to illiteracy). This leads them into a functional reformism in all other matters. When these same anons enter other threads they drown out any revolutionary proletarian socialist analysis with appeals to controlled opposition. They are always the loudest voices shilling for x spineless socdems and, "at best", defanged quasi-eurocommunist parties like CPUSA, PCCh. They cope with this real impotence by engaging in the most delusional of phantasmagoria from erratically; "Please Xi, liberate x place!", "just you wait until 2050!". This is among the most telling, as it highlights not only the complete ignorance of the fact of the matter, but also showcases the utter gullibility of the impressionable opportunists. Not only have they foregone the theory, but also the history.
A communist farce of a cadre.
>>

 No.398769

>>398759
albania sucks and hoxha was gay
>>

 No.398777

>>398759
Absolutely based post

>>398769
Retard and new fag detected. Only a real Jewish nigger would dare to say such things about Hoxha, Albania, or bunkers on this board.

For shame.
>>

 No.398779

File: 1627154134635-0.jpg ( 147.89 KB , 1287x724 , 73be8a484b02eb7f0eb010ec31….jpg )

File: 1627154134635-1.jpg ( 9.94 KB , 300x191 , 073a4ca90bfbbf6313d959a475….jpg )

>77 posts
>ctrl+f "Deng"
>27 results
rent free
>>

 No.398783

Hot take
State capitalism is a inevitable in the transition to Communism. Especially in a time after the fall of the socialist bloc. Any revolution to succeed will only happen at a national if not regional level. Encirclement will occur again even a pure state socialism would be hard especially when one is reliant on the market and trade in it for resources and supplies. The length of such a period idk about but I feel it is a likely occurrence in this transition. Am I wrong to think this, if so why am I wrong? I truly would like to know.
>>

 No.398785

>>398759
>When these same anons enter other threads they drown out any revolutionary proletarian socialist analysis with appeals to controlled opposition.
Example?
>>

 No.398790

>>398779
>he says, making another Maoist hate thread
>>

 No.398792

>>398785
>support duterte
>>

 No.398794

>>398792
Never seen anyone say that.
>>

 No.398795

>>398783
Why is it you think encirclement must necessarily preclude worker control and democratic rule?
>>

 No.398796

>>398790
Not my thread. I'm actually pretty pro-Maoist when it comes to countries where it's revolutionary theory is applicable, but when I hear a burger, canadian, german, etc. call himself a Maoist I just roll my eyes, because it's always LARPy as fuck.
>>

 No.398801

>>398707
>Who didn’t lose power, the party? Sure, but what about the rest of the proletariat?
>>

 No.398813

>>398795
Give an example of your worker control and democratic rule.

>>398801
I think your problem is that you don't agree with the party form itself and representative structures. I mean just come out openly with the position from where your criticism comes from.
>>

 No.398831

>>398813
I have my criticisms of vanguard parties, but the ones in the Warsaw pact at least functioned on planning and by extension the explicit provision of basic goods and human services to their respective populations. But maintaining a single party state for the purpose of trade with capitalist powers? What is that?
>>

 No.398834

>>398795
You can do those things, Cuba and the DPRK do those thinks by and large. Thing is if you do those things you get in economic wars of sanctions coup's embargo's and general isolation. This economic war and isolation leads to issues developing production, not out of socialist economics but inability to get the trade… to develop such productive capacity. Would China have what it has if it didn't open up? Probably not this isn't necessarily a issue of socialism but a issue of not getting the benefits of a globalized economy centuries and centuries in the making.
>>

 No.398840

File: 1627156904241.png ( 98.56 KB , 720x720 , dd5e5to-abbe1ac4-6cd7-43f8….png )

>>398831
>maintaining a single party state for the purpose of trade with capitalist powers
oh, look, a strawman
>>

 No.398844

File: 1627156931595.png ( 261.82 KB , 550x511 , dengpol.png )

>>398531
Don't forget the dengoid allegiance with Pol Pot
>>

 No.398851

>>398840
How does the Chinese government provide services for its domestic population or at least make sure that its revenue is expended on the welfare of society at large? What concretely differentiates it from any other mixed economy?
>>

 No.398857

File: 1627157217010.png ( 177.7 KB , 350x350 , 1627130910463.png )

DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG DENG
>>

 No.398868

>>398834
>Cuba and the DPRK do those thinks by and large.
Perhaps you and I are operating on different definitions of "democratic rule", because they sure as hell don't.
>>

 No.398872

>>398868
Is the USA more democratic than Cuba, DPRK?
>>

 No.398876

File: 1627157768155.png ( 726.99 KB , 1728x1032 , leftypol original china ge….png )

>>398851
>What concretely differentiates it from any other mixed economy?
A red flag and "communist" in the ruling party's name.
>>

 No.398888

File: 1627158051577.jpg ( 67.52 KB , 781x834 , febc9a028669d345fcafed6e4b….jpg )

>>398868
Oh yeah I for got they are evil one party despotic dictatorships I'll cool it on the authoritarianism.
>>

 No.398901

>>398589
does the argument that they still are like a decade behind technologically with the most advanced countries and entities like the US and TSMC and also still at least like 5-10 years behind the US militarily and that they are still very dependent on the global economic order that centralizing production would essentially be an incredibly large risk if done all at once or even just started right now, does this argument hold water or no
>>

 No.398903

File: 1627158552378.jpg ( 261.31 KB , 698x465 , 1589639834130.jpg )

>have to deal with mindless cheering for market reformism
>rather than analysis of Marxism-Leninism becoming a victim of its own Realpolitik
I hate this. I hate you.
>>

 No.398904

>>398876
Why are you false flagging? No Marxist-Leninist would find the modern social-imperialist powers comparable to actively genocidal Nazi Germany. Did you run out of counter-arguments so you resorted to make pop-up strawmen as a cope?
>>

 No.398909

>>398901
Absolutely. China relies heavily on food imports, for example. If they just "centralized at once" as you said, they would be embargoed to shit and millions would die from hunger. But this doesn't matter to the internet leftist.
>>

 No.398910

>>398904
<comparable
indistinguishable*.
That's an anarkiddie type simplistic strawman if I've ever seen one.
>>

 No.398915

>>398904
>>398910
The meme isn't comparing the two countries' policies. It is comparing the fact that both put "socialism" in the name but did not / do not have a socialist economy. The swastika catches the viewer's attention .
>>

 No.398918

File: 1627159128427.jpg ( 27.4 KB , 368x475 , 2b78f2e25f06ed43f7dfe89c0a….jpg )

>>398915
>defending radlib memes
>>

 No.398920

Oh no, the thread devolved into nazi comparations.
MSNBC woudl be proud.
>>

 No.398922

>>398909
Yea I mean they have been working on reducing reliance on energy imports and advancing their technology sector and if that all goes well which i think it will over the next decade then they will probably have an easier time to actually move towards socialism and also have less excuses for not doing it
>>

 No.398925

>>398922
Here's the thing you need to get. They themselves don't want to have excuses for "not doing socialism" because they are drumroll actual communists GASP! they just understand their current position in the world unlike anglo children.
>>

 No.398935

File: 1627160105357.png ( 3.94 MB , 1599x1800 , CHINESE MARINES AND USMC S….png )

>>398623
China does drills with the burger military as well.
>>

 No.398936

>>398935
Can you not quote that anti-communist unironically?
>>

 No.398937

>>398935
>That filename
Lmao, Talking like there is no itch in Nato hawks to invade China
>>

 No.398941

File: 1627160383582.jpg ( 71.6 KB , 600x400 , 1597397113-5f36587988277.jpg )

>>398876
>>

 No.398942

>>398935
>more radlib memes
>>

 No.398944

>>398624
>That I cheer on China's foreign policy mistakes by not supporting Sandanistas? I'm saying your black and white view of geopolitics is nothing, it's useless, and only used to invoke emotional responses without having to answer to arguments.

When western countries have a shitty foreign policy, it's "imperialism"
When China has shitty foreign policy, it's "a mistake".
>>

 No.398946

File: 1627160525354.png ( 195.93 KB , 470x451 , 583498590345.png )

>>398935
If you look, most of those pictures are from 15 years ago when they were doing some military-to-military cooperation. But that ship sailed a long time ago.
>>

 No.398951

File: 1627160603761.png ( 3.5 MB , 1599x1600 , deng and thatcher orwell m….png )

>>398937
why would they invade china when they could just trade with them?
>>398918
>>398942
>criticising a neoliberal country makes you a liberal
>>

 No.398953

>>398951
This also happened when Margaret Thatcher visited China.
>>

 No.398954

>>398951
>why would they invade china when they could just trade with them?
Are you actually a know-nothing retard or merely pretending?
>>

 No.398955

>>398944
China isn't imperialist! If China was imperialist the belt and road project would be an indicator that China has reached a stage of capitalism where the economy is monopolizing and needs to expand to survive, where in reality China actually does this all for charity
>>

 No.398958

>>398951
>Orwell
These soyjaks seriously make themselves
>>

 No.398962

>>398955
>China actually does this all for charity
lol
>>

 No.398965

>>398955
Belt and Road is preparation for the naval blockade US will put on them when the war will come, and if they lose the naval battle.
>>

 No.398967

>>398955
>Does it all for charity
Are you fucking kidding? This better be a shitpost. Look, no one does anything for charity. The Soviet Union was the biggest friend that postcolonial and exploited nations could have, but even they were doing it to build worldwide proletarian hegemony. If China’s not trying to do a social imperialism, then at the very least they’re building their own counterhegemony through mutual prosperity.
>>

 No.398969

>>398965
Does it make a profit though?
>>

 No.398973

>>398909
>Poor Chinese not developing their agricultural sector and establishing food security before building iPhones.
>>

 No.398974

>>398969
Nope, they haven't made their money back.
>>

 No.398976

File: 1627161236132.png ( 475.08 KB , 1852x1196 , chinese porky tencent stoc….png )

>>398941
this image is actually a perfect representation of the current Chinese system. A group of Proletarians with sunken eyes hold up a red banner with the logo of a private stock company behind them. They work 12 hours days, six days a week slaving away at their keyboards producing digital commodities for a billion-man strong placated mass of consumers. The CEOs are all party members, of course and fatten their stocks with the tears of the workers.
>>

 No.398977

File: 1627161302048.jpg ( 72.44 KB , 500x500 , corporatism.jpg )

>>398941
>>

 No.398978

>>398967
>Are you fucking kidding? This better be a shitpost.
It so obviously is a shitpost. Are you guys all autistic or something?

This is what he actually was saying if you remove the sarcasm
<the belt and road project is an indicator that China has reached a stage of capitalism where the economy is monopolizing and needs to expand to survive => imperialism
>>

 No.398979

File: 1627161315632.png ( 89.65 KB , 491x898 , 6948568456905.png )

>>398955
>China has reached a stage of capitalism where the economy is monopolizing
Can you name me some of these Chinese monopoly companies and how they compare in the world in terms of geographic spread to western multinationals?
>>

 No.398981

>>398973
borderline racist
>>

 No.398983

>>398977
facebook boomer tier meme
>>

 No.398986

>>398981
>Pointing out economic policy mistakes is racism
>>

 No.398988

>>398986
look at a Chinese geographical map for 5 seconds to understand your ignorance
>>

 No.398993

>>398977
I’m anti China and this is a boomer meme
>>

 No.398995

>>398988
>Rice in the southeast
<wheat in the northeast
What’s so difficult?
>>

 No.398996

>>398974

So, these other places are going to pay them later?
>>

 No.398999

>>398996
Maybe. Eventually. Can never tell with the rate of profit. Shit's hitting the fan by the end of this year, though, so, in reality, "No, never".
>>

 No.399001

>>398999
But they have some kind of agreement to pay them?
>>

 No.399003

>>398999
What's happening at the end of the year?
>>

 No.399006

>>398993
You just sound like a 12 year old 4channer.
>>

 No.399009

>>399006
It’s still a boomer meme and I’m probably older than you. I am by the way probably the person who has posted anti China most in this thread ask mods
>>

 No.399013

>>399009
The fact that you call it "anti-China" just shows how intellectually bankrupt you are. I hope that it's due to your wee age, for your own sake.
>>

 No.399015

>>399009
>>399013
The antichina front has collapsed under the force of their own memes.
What a ride
>>

 No.399017

>>399001
Yes, they are loans, not gifts.

>>399003
Collapse of global trade and cascading economic collapse, as the global shipping crisis finally murders the supply lines.
>>

 No.399019

>>399015
Anti China Are Bastards
>>

 No.399030

>Be OP
>60 years ago in Britain
>Bro why you against revisonism bro, look at labour party bro, we got direct provision from NHS, we got state controlled factories dawg, economy so good, and look, we even got amazing social safety nets in place
>Revisionism is the future dawg, no blood, no poverty, just vote labour bruv, socialism through ballot box!
>>

 No.399050

>>399030
>Be (You)
>150 years ago in Britain
>Marx, Engels, why do you need to be revisionists, bros?
>We got perfectly good French socialism à la Fourier and Saint-Simon, and perfectly good Owenite communities.
>Why do you need to stir shit and revise these thinkers?
>>

 No.399051

>>398953
Leftypol mever told me that gravity was this based!
>>

 No.399058

>>399050
>Socialism is when you run out of arguments while supporting social democract so you just instead argue socialism is when you shit on older ideas
>>

 No.399063

>>399058
please write intelligible sentences, otherwise I might not be able to further mock you
>>

 No.399069

>>398345
China isn't revisionist. Its capitalist. I don't mind revisionism that much.
>>

 No.399082

>>398901
>does the argument that they still are like a decade behind technologically with the most advanced countries and entities like the US and TSMC and also still at least like 5-10 years behind the US militarily and that they are still very dependent on the global economic order that centralizing production would essentially be an incredibly large risk if done all at once or even just started right now, does this argument hold water or no
The anon that responded to you wasn't me btw. This argument hopds no water to it because this is a risk every socialist government has to surmount when undertaking revolutionary progress. There is no way to avoid embargo or war perpetuated by the capitalists against you, they have zero interest in actually permitting a socialist state to move forward wholesale. That's why facilitating revolution abroad is of critical importance, because otherwise you will be condemned to isolation and suffocation by the capitalist powers that be. Revolutionary governments will always find themselves margianlly behind the dominant system, because that system has access to established resources and influence that they do not and have the advantage of being a "first mover" of sorts. But we would not then say revolution is a folly, or that we should not pursue it, not would we?
>>398909
>>398925
None of this is an argument. I want you to think about this carefully and not blind contrarianism. If your economy is already connected and constructed on the basis of the world economy, will there ever exist a time in which disconnecting and waging revolution won't be detrimental? The answer is no, there will never be such a time. That is why creating and fostering the future socialist economic nodes that you must connect to when waging revolution is of utmost importance. China has failed to do this, and to this day fails to foster those revolutions that could create the nodes it needs to progress.
>>

 No.399088

>>399082
>If your economy is already connected and constructed on the basis of the world economy, will there ever exist a time in which disconnecting and waging revolution won't be detrimental?
It's called autarky, towards which China is moving.

Somebody needs to create some nodes in your head.
>>

 No.399099

>>399063
Xi = Harold Wilson
CCP = Labour Party
Socialism with Chinese Characteristics = Post-war consensus
China after 20 years = Neoliberalism
Simple as
>>

 No.399101

>>398525
based and leftcompilled
>>

 No.399117

>>399088
>It's called autarky, towards which China is moving.
Autarky is largely a myth. Nazi Germany inherited relative autarky from Weimar Government reforms in the agriculture sector. And yet despite that, it's grain reserves became so crippled (partly because of their own policies, partly because of their geopolitical context) that they needed to import from the USSR. There is not a single country that has achieved dominance while having autarky, the economies and populations that you understand today are the result of existing in an interconnected economy. When the tap is cut off, there is no amount of autarky that can keep such things propped up sustainably. We live in an age of global power, the age of petty nations dominating singularly is dead. We are all economic nodes now, the question is what kinds they will be.
>Somebody needs to create some nodes in your head.
No, somebody to create some socialist nodes today, or else we're all dead.
>>399101
Not even a leftcom (at least, they'd never take me as one). More like ML aligned, leftcom "inspired".
>>

 No.399120

File: 1627166209182.mp4 ( 16.12 MB , 640x360 , kotkin.mp4 )

>>398977
Do you even know anything about communism
>>

 No.399177

File: 1627168285112.jpg ( 141.14 KB , 980x1274 , 1626472182057.jpg )

>>398391
>>398425
>>398464
>>398495
>>398551
>>398559
>>398584
ITT brainlet theorylet basement dwelling cracker larpers

Mega cringe.

Mega cringe.
>>

 No.399189

>>399120
What a dweeb. Not arguing against anything, just point it out.
>>

 No.399264

>>398925
I definitely think there are actual communists in the CPC there are many factions in it, but whether or not they are actually going to ever become socialist, personally I don't fucking know, they have done things that make me have optimism in it and things that make me pessimistic of it, I guess we'll see what's happening 5, 10, 20, 30 years from now
>>

 No.399266

>>398590
This uygha is too stupid to think even a bit critically meaning that if the pamphlets are being printed to arm NATO against AES, this means that the anti-AES orgs in 1st world countries are completely fedded
>>

 No.399274

>>398632
>every Maoist accepts that Mao fell off in his later years
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
no
>>

 No.400062

>>399099
>Comparing China to the UK
You've got to be shitting me
>>

 No.400235

>>398592
Kek. China does 100x that trade with the Great Satan, the USA. Sope and ceethe
>>

 No.400241

>>399013
No I just have the ability to be objective unlike you goid cultists Xionists
>>

 No.400242

>>399177
> a bunch of ad hominems
>>

 No.400245

>ooga booga china good/bad
this board only cares because it's fun to pick sides like a sports team
>>

 No.400255

>>399017
Oh, right. Are they paying some kind of interest on those loans?
>>

 No.400257

>>400235
>it is not necessary to trade with the US
>it is necessary to trade with Israel
Was it necessary to sell arms to the contras or was it just sterile and tasty?
>>

 No.400297

>>400245
True
>>

 No.400304

sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage sage
>>

 No.400305

>>400245
right
>>

 No.400306

>>399266
This uygha think some nobody group releasing a pamphlet can be compared to the Chinese actively taking part in the slaughter of communists lmao
>>

 No.400311

>>400257
None of this is 'necessary.' It is also not necessary for China to support Israel for Israel to thrive. China wants a port in the Mediterranean, why do they have to perfect? They have their own problems with lifting so many out of poverty, yes, even through imperialism. If you are such a communist that you 'support' only socialism, then you 'support' like three countries, the DPRK, Vietnam and Laos who all have China to thank in varying degrees for their socialism.
>>

 No.400343

>>400311
It is for this reason that Norway is actually based and communist, lifting so many out of poverty, even with imperialism, why does Norway have to be perfect?
>>

 No.400363

>>400343
Norway is not controlled by a communist party with the stated goal of transitioning away from the current system and towards communism. In face our current government would be more than happy to keep moving the other way.
>>

 No.400367

>>400311
Agreed, Anon. Avoiding any interaction with Israel on a matter of principle would only be symbolic act. Symbolic acts can be important sometimes… but only when you have nothing much else to do lol.

Why would China be pointlessly confrontational and overly honorific when they could just win, instead?
>>

 No.400401

File: 1627210154075.png ( 133.64 KB , 829x601 , 1.png )

Mao was a vicious anti-semite. Fortunately, Chinese leadership has recognized this error and corrected it. Thank you China for supporting the only democracy in the middle east.
>>

 No.400410

>>400401
Probably because of the modern Chinese leadership's support of the two state solution held by the UN.
>>

 No.400428

>>400401
>Mao was a vicious anti-semite.
he wasn't, your picture says nothing of this sort.
>the only democracy in the middle east.
which country do you mean ?
It can't be Isreal they have an apartheid regime.
Do you mean Iran ? Aren't you stretching the definition a bit.
>>

 No.400439

>>400410
The "two state solution" is fake, as is the "peace process." They're only there so that Zionists can point to something and say "see, we just want peace" while they continue to expand settlements in the West Bank, evict Palestinians from East Jerusalem and bomb and starve Gaza.
>>

 No.400441

>>400439
Oh. I see.

CGTN said that, regarding China's position on the conflict.
https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-07-19/China-pushes-for-two-state-solution-to-Palestinian-Israeli-conflict-1212JGSPxzW/index.html
>>

 No.400459

>>400441
I mean, their official statements on Israel-Palestine are certainly better than the US and many US allies. But they have moved from actively supporting Palestinian guerilla groups to doing business with Israel while talking about an imaginary two-state solution*. What this tells me is that Palestinian liberation is not a high priority for the Chinese government. They don't seem to be actively hostile to Palestinian resistance groups, but they're no Iran.
>>

 No.400558

Dengoids produce all these walls of text just to essentially do keynesianism or some shit and paint it with red color. They are too far gone at this point.
>>

 No.400576

>>398759
Excellent post.
>>

 No.400661

>>398759
Word for word.
>>

 No.400865

>>398759
Deng beetles lost again!
>>

 No.400887

>>400343
>Population: 5.4 million
Lmao
>>400367
Yes the reason their position is so much stronger than the USSR's was is because they are the most essential part of the capitalist world order. They must participate in it to take from the West (and also will become the West 2.0, I don't deny it). This whole idea of a 1.4 billion-strong nation only doing trade with moral partners is impossible with globalized, interconnected capital, and is only talked about because of the strain of religious moralism in Western discourse. Atheist leftists are hardly immune to this moralism.
>>

 No.400919

>>398345
>Can somebody explain me what the problem is with "revisionism"?

You are mostly correct in your assessment of things but it is worth understanding that criticizing revisionism isn't always a lazy cop-out.

Communist parties and states must innovate and adapt to modern conditions but they must do so without betraying their foundational principles. It is a delicate balance. There is much room for debate as to what is innovative and what is revisionist. It is easy to look upon the Chinese example today and think it is infallible. This is an error though. As we speak factions in the CPC are battling to determine the future of the country. To blindly trust that the correct decision is always being made is the first step down the road to ruin.

Vigilance is always necessary.
>>

 No.401012

>>398759
Dude I just want the US to lose already, the US has fucked up the entire world for more than a century and it's time for them to collapse.

If china is gonna accelerate that collapse they have my support even if they're not real communists.

Also with their love for red propaganda they would put a hammer and sickle on the WH and that would be based as fuck.
>>

 No.401028

>>401012
Yeah! Just let them collapse from superpower status. Or nullify them. Or change them. That way the US can guarantee true world peace with the help of China.
>>

 No.401031

>>400367
It isn’t symbolic lmao if they have to get a worse deal off the yanks they lose out. Stop sucking each other off it’s complete shit
>>

 No.401035

>>400887
> the population size changes what the economy is qualitively

Dengists are literally shit tier retards
>>

 No.401038

>>400558
It’s mostly Reddit copypasta they are pretending they wrote or cross posting
>>

 No.401056

>>398425
fetishing immediate post-revolution society moment. Deng is a Marxist-Leninist, like Mao before him. Sorry lad.
>>

 No.401061

>>401035
>a specific mode of production matters more than lifting more people than the population of Europe out of extreme poverty
>hurr durr immoral Zionism
Western leftists, from the comfort of their Western homes, would rather have Chinese peasants continue to live in dirt and be labeled 'real communism' than have China end extreme poverty.
>>

 No.401067

>people crying about "Dengism"

Just admit you are left anti-communists and are irrelevant. SWCC is meant for CHINESE conditions, and is not a static state of affairs but a developmental stage. Jesus Christ.
>>

 No.401068

>>398857
Are you sellingus bee cheng hiang? Or some other brand dendeng? Would like to buy 1 pack of the beef one!
>>

 No.401079

>>401061
What can I say except “sounds like revisionism”. And it ain’t like Mao wasn’t doing anything.
>>

 No.401086

>>401079
Dogmatic retard
>>

 No.401097

>>401086
>The Mode of Production doesn’t matter
<What do you mean that The Rate of Profit tends to fall?
>>

 No.401111

>>401061
You are probably posting from some oregon suburbs
>>

 No.401123

>>401097
Hasn't yet stopped the Global South from improving under Chinese leadership. We are not yet in the phase of decadence
>>401111
Yes, and I have the proper stance on poverty and the West's role
>>

 No.401126

>>401061
Yup, this is why I am a firm believer in Norwegian social democracy, getting rid of extreme poverty, the imperialism is only the concern of moralists.

Literally not wanting Israel to build a US military outpost in the Middle East is just moralism, has Nothing to do with international anti imperial strategy
>>

 No.401130

>not one dengist has even attempted to answer the Nicaragua question

Lmao, they literally cannot, it’s been months now and not one reasonable response
>>

 No.401133

>>401123
>Yes, and I have the proper stance on poverty and the West's role
No you are a theorylet and useful idiot of social imperialist. Also a virtue signaling faggot.
>>

 No.401136

>>401130
they will answer that it was long time ago. I'm more curious about their stance on the chinese made and sold drones that bomb yemen
>>

 No.401149

>>401067
>you’re all anti communists
>he says
>hand waving the slaughter of communists
Big think time
>>

 No.401151

>>401130
>the Nicaragua question
It was retarded. Next.

>>401136
>I'm more curious about their stance on the chinese made and sold drones that bomb yemen
Completely indefensible.

I guess the one good thing you could say about Chinese foreign policy is that they trade with governments under US/EU sanctions (including but not limited to socialist governments). Aside from that it seems like they have abandoned internationalism for "pragmatism" and "non-interference."
>>

 No.401152

>>401133
Virgin anti imperialists would rather they be sold dirt as food by the World Bank. Chad multipolarists don't moralize about imperfect development and Zionism
>>401126
>5 million people who ended poverty a long time ago
You need a more nuanced view. Two distinct poles that have nothing to do with each other will never last long. But two poles that depend on each other is a much more resilient situation. China will one day have enough influence to make these decisions but right now Palestinian babies will be bombed either way.
>>

 No.401153

>>401151
Pragamatism and non interference would be fine. What they do is interfere on the wrong side
>>

 No.401156

>>401152
It’s not multipolar if it’s just two capitalist empires lmao
>>

 No.401160

>>401152
You need a more nuanced view retard

>China cool no matter what
>to the point where zionism is fine
Isn’t a nuance view, it’s a cult view. You are a supporter of the mass rape of Nicaraguan leftists fighting for national liberation. You’re not just wrong, you’re scum
>>

 No.401162

>>401160
Wow China did all these bad things. Mao also did bad things. Does that mean China is #cancelled? Which binary are you putting the entire conversation about China into? "China good/bad" is all we are allowed to say about China anymore? We both know that this is a caricature of each of our opinions, and the facts about China
>>401156
The hundreds of millions of poor that you claim to care so much about would disagree
>>

 No.401218

File: 1627236085035.png ( 507.22 KB , 1070x601 , 33481015d04b3974f9ed7acf61….png )

>>401152
>Chad multipolarists don't moralize about imperfect development and Zionism
This is what passes as leftism in the West?
>>

 No.401227

>>401162
My view is nuanced though. I don’t think there is a genocide of uyhhurs, I think the US is ramping up anti China rhetoric and so on, I know Mao did some retarded shit.

It is you that refuses to admit the bad things that current day China does and Deng period China did.
>>

 No.401286

The thing that I think we know with certainty about China is that whether or not they become the USA of the future, they did it by raising up a huge number of people who the West would only offer a debt trap to while flying war planes too close to their airspace. This weighs heavily on my utilitarian Angloid moral scale. If your moral scale is "communism or nothing" then you are irrelevant and don't get it
>>401218
Unfortunately, to be leftist doesn't require one to have any detailed understanding of history, only a communism-detecting apparatus. A communism dowsing rod.
>>401227
I said that they've done bad things, like all countries. I'm asking if that means the good things they did don't mean anything. In the totalizing view of communism-or-nothing, I imagine you would say that yes those things mean nothing and they are as bad as the USA.
>>

 No.401290

>>401286
Okay then. What bad I.e anti communist things has dengoid china done, admit them
>>

 No.401316

>stop doing any business with Israel
>the propaganda machine labels you anti-semitic and solidify the image of the fourth reich in the eyes of normies
>lose any kind of moral footwork
>actually give the USA a reason more to go to war with you and properly justify it
antidengoids are literal children
>>

 No.401325

>>401316
>you can’t be anti Israel because libs will call you anti Semitic

Kek, they will do this anyway. Look at Corbyn, they even called sanders anti Semitic. Stop victim blaming
>>

 No.401328

>>401290
What is this, a moral purge? A struggle session? They were just listed. It would be better if they did not do trade with Israel (though Palestinians would get fucked either way.) It would be better if they did not sell drones to Saudi (though they have many drone suppliers to buy from, and Yemen gets fucked either way (but actually based Yemen is winning rn)). There is no utopian communism, no divine Providence just around the corner. For China to be strong they must participate with, and take from the West, not avoid it.
>>

 No.401339

>>401290
Allying with the US and actively dismantling the Soviet Union for example…
>>

 No.401341

>>401339
The Soviet Union wasn't socialist, and China destroyed a social-imperialist empire.
>>

 No.401447

>>401339
>>401341
>/leftypol/ discourse
>>

 No.401564

>>401316
>It's either working with zionists or nuclear war, nothing in between
>China has nuclear weapons yet will be attacked for not trading with a tiny country
Dengoid delusions
>>

 No.401570

>>401341
>Dengoid earnestly and without a hint of irony calls the USSR social-imperialist
>Doesn't release Mao would be rolling over in his grave the way his party turned out, with 100+ billionaires being part of it
>>

 No.403062

File: 1627295588809.gif ( 1.51 MB , 425x481 , pepe-devious.gif )

Someone should do a parody of China opening up by superimposing Xi's face on pictures of gay porn performers spreading their ass apart / gaping (or just goatse).
>>

 No.403066

File: 1627295891188.png ( 147.99 KB , 499x468 , ClipboardImage.png )

>>398345
Do you not know what revisionism means? It doesn't refer to revising literally anything at all, it refers to revising core tenets of Marxism that are non-negotiable and central to the understanding.
We can probably revise that Marx supported free trade. Or we can adopt it like he did. Depending on circumstances. That's not a central part of Marxism.

We can't revise that class war exists. If we try to revise the fact that class war is occurring, we've gone into revisionist territory, to the point it's something other than Marxism masquerading as Marxism.
>>

 No.403072

>>403066
The Three Represents theory claims that class struggle has ended in China and all classes collaborate for the good of the nation
>>

 No.403093

Marxism is not a sacred text that one tries to jam vulgarly on top of every situation. It is not a work of genius because Marx has made trenchant critiques of the mechanism of capitalism, but because it foremost is a brilliant method which can be wielded to analyze situations. This is why people all over the world can use it, be they the revolutionary of the third world or the feminist or the historian. The obsession over antirevisionism is stupid. No revolution has come about because of a pure fidelity to the holy books, but because the technique of Marxism is applied to the particulars of a certain place and time. There must be a perversion of Marx's original words, yet that is the genius of Marxism simultaneously, of which the antirevisionist, stuck in the 1800s, is the true corrupter of.
>>

 No.403094

>>403093
Are you crying right now?
>>

 No.403096

File: 1627298660374.jpeg ( 105.58 KB , 634x500 , shut-up-revisionist-speak….jpeg )

>>403093
>>

 No.403098

>>403072
>all classes collaborate for the good of the nation
I thought that was fascism?
>>

 No.403102

>>403072
>The Three Represents theory
reigns in the capitalists class more than anybody else
>>403098
>chinazi
No fascism is when the corporations replace the state and the imperial finance bourgeois does an open dictatorship.
When the communist party bullies the capitalists to develop the means of production that's definitely something else.
>>

 No.403103

>>403102
>corporations replace the state
This sounds more like ancapistan than fascism
>>

 No.403115

>>403103
and the imperial finance bourgeois does an open dictatorship.

don't forget the and-operator
>>

 No.403117

>>403072
>The Three Represents theory claims that class struggle has ended in China and all classes collaborate for the good of the nation
Then it isn't Marxism.
>>

 No.403145

>>403117
Three Represents is literally corporatism.
>>

 No.403177

>>403098
Basically, yes. It is nothing but turd positionism repainted in red colors.
>>

 No.403189

>>403098
>>403145
>>403177
Well china isn't a fascist state, so something must be wrong with your theorizing
>>

 No.403203

>>403072
>class struggle has ended in China
Is this actually the party line of the CPC? If it is there's no hope. That's completely and transparently anti-Marxist.

>>403145
>>403177
Basically all bourgeois-nationalists, social democrats, liberals of various kinds preach some form of class collaborationism. I don't get the meme that class collaborationist ideology equals fascism. It's a necessary but not sufficient criterion for it, sure. But class collaborationism is at the heart of the Nordic social-democratic model as well. Dumbing down the definition of fascism this much just leads to the conclusion that everything that's not explicitly Marxist is fascist (which might sound very radical but is actually a totally useless analytical framework).
>>

 No.403223

>>403203
>Is this actually the party line of the CPC? If it is there's no hope.
They maintain that China is dictatorship of the proletariat and that because the Chinese capitalists can't form a bourgeois state, they aren't a real class, and therefore it's not a real contradiction anymore. If you read between the lines, they don't want another leap forward or cultural revolution.
>>

 No.403224

>>403189
Cope

>>403203
>Basically all bourgeois-nationalists, social democrats, liberals of various kinds preach some form of class collaborationism. I don't get the meme that class collaborationist ideology equals fascism.
It's not just collaborationism. It is the idea of a state being some kind of neutral arbiter (the idea you very often hear from dengoids) that can remove or reduce the contradiction withing the system and allow for workers and capitalists to drop the class struggle and work on the behest of the nations as a whole. This is what "third position" is. Neither workers or capitalists but a state uniting them all. Compare this to rethoric dengoids usually use in explanation why China is not just another prokie country and you will find a lot fo similarities
>>

 No.403225

>>403223
>China has a dictatorship of the proletariat
>also it has a government that represents all classes
what did they mean by this?
>>

 No.403226

File: 1627310852613.png ( 61.4 KB , 578x547 , 1615739561164.png )

Don't mind me, just waiting for Xi to push the Communism button
>>

 No.403234

>>403224
>material reality is a cope
The absolute state of china bashing
>>403224
>It is the idea of a state being some kind of neutral arbiter
The official position is that china had a proletarian revolution so the state is proletarian, and because there was no rupture like in the soviet union this cannot be changed.
>>403225
>what did they mean by this?
there are multiple classes and the proletariat is the dominant one.
>>

 No.403243

>>403234
>The absolute state of china bashing
Your "material reality" lacks even basic understanding of what state is. Given that you need to "replace it" for fascism to exist. Did Krupp or Siemens replaced the state of Weimar Germany? Nope, they used Hitler and the likes.
>The official position is that china had a proletarian revolution so the state is proletarian,
Yes, when you think that you can have a proletarian state at the same time as capitalism for any significant period of time is basically repainted thirdpositionism. You reject any materialistic analysis of society and replace it with nationalistic idealism.
>>

 No.403327

>>403223
Inaccurate. The people's republic of China has been a people's democratic dictatorship lead by the working class and communist party. Class collaboration is better than bourgeois dictatorship when completing the democratic revolution. The CPC acknowledges that China is still in the lowest stage of socialism, where a mixed economy is needed to advance the productive forces to the point where implementing the dictatorship of the proletariat makes sense. You can't enter into the phase of socialism without the necessary material conditions to do so.
>>

 No.403333

>>403226
And if he did, it will only build socialism in China. Go fight your own revolution and stop worrying about China.
>>

 No.403337

>>398472
Based.
>>

 No.403344

>>403189
People forget that fascism must take place in an environment of capitalist crisis. If you're advocating for class collaboration in Europe or america, then yes, you're likely a fascist. If you're advocating for class collaboration to complete the democratic revolution, then likely not. Appearances are one thing, essence and context is another.
>>

 No.403387

>>403344
This. Without large worker movement there is no need to have open state terror to supress it.
>>

 No.403783

>>403243
>Yes, when you think that you can have a proletarian state at the same time as capitalism for any significant period of time is basically repainted thirdpositionism. You reject any materialistic analysis of society and replace it with nationalistic idealism.
<what is the NEP
>>

 No.403931

>>401328
should china sell child porn because if not the us would just do it anyway? Maybe they could make it in factories?
>>

 No.403937

>>403783
NEP had:
>Never less than 75% State owned industry in total Gdp
>100% control of foreign trade
>Heavily progressive taxation

This is not the case of modern China.
>>

 No.403943

>>403344
It is true that part of Maoist thought is the idea of New Democracy, but that is purely the establishment of a liberal democracy as part of a broad front against colonial forces.
>>

 No.403952

File: 1627341961147.jpg ( 930.24 KB , 4095x2730 , 0bf1a08d-9d67-4d50-95ba-e4….jpg )

>>403333
Im otherfag but I only care about China turning USA into a nuclear wasteland. Nothing more nothing less. This is the anti-imperialist way.
>>

 No.403977

>>403943
It wasn't Maoist thought. It was Mao Zedong thought. Liberalism isn't class collaboration, it is an ideology premised on the individual, and it's possible to have a democratic revolution without it, since It is uniquely European.
>>

 No.403982

>>398345
Sorry I believe in socialism not capitalism with red flags.
>>

 No.404141

China and the CPC aren’t revisionist
>>

 No.404142

Can't fool me, CAPPY.
>>

 No.404144

File: 1627348558714.jpeg ( 66.23 KB , 600x381 , 1622790554457.jpeg )

OP made a similar thread last week asking what revisionism was and decided he didn't like any of the usual explanations and is now making up some shitty theory to justify his capitalism
>>

 No.404283

>>403783
NEP lasted just a couple of years and was only allowed because bolsheviks needed for economy to function at least somehow while they were creating a Gosplan (state planning agency). And they knew that they should hurry otherwise they would become fully capitalist. China is fully capitalist, it's not even NEP.
>>

 No.405096

File: 1627402549279.mp4 ( 2.81 MB , 1920x1080 , mensheviks productive forc….mp4 )

>>403327
> You can't enter into the phase of socialism without the necessary material conditions to do so.
This has been said before in places where the material conditions were sufficient enough for socialist development.
>>

 No.405113

>>405096
Okay, and that was Russia.
>>

 No.405126

>>405113
In 1917, Russia was a feudal monarchy with agriculture as its sole relevant industry. Central planning under Lenin and Stalin turned a frozen wasteland into a global superpower.

Modern day China has more than enough industry to support their population. China is reaching agricultural self sufficiency and has a developed industrial base. There is little need for privatization other than to enrich corporate shareholders, many of whom are party members.
>>

 No.405150

>>405126
>reaching
okay, so they're not there yet.
>>

 No.405496

>>

 No.405508

>>405496
>(You)
Lol what, how did I do that?
>>

 No.405663

>>405126
A lot of dengoids and anti-dengoids meme about productive forces, but if you read/watch Deng's speech on why he wanted these reforms, that's just a part of it. The state of Capital is also highly relevant, and transitioning to socialism at the wrong time will likely have terrible consequences.
>>

 No.405669

>>405663
>transitioning to socialism at the wrong time will likely have terrible consequences.
Such as?
>>

 No.406661

>>405669
Capitalists would loose their profits. That would be terrible.
>>

 No.406716

The desperation is unreal with the wall of text and infographic spam only matched by holocaust deniers

>>398345
>Can somebody explain me what the problem is with "revisionism"?
It calls itself socialism while being lukewarm non-western left-wing populism and defending capitalist economics as 'socialist with national characteristics', essentially calling itself ML which it opposes and departs from

>Marx couldn't figure out everything, we have to innovate Marxism,
and so we must oppose Marx and depart from marxism in its entirety in the way of Bernstein's evolutionary socialism. Kinda fitting with China evolving to socialism in 2050 or was it 2078 now as revisionists have said?

>The Leftists screeching about "revisionism" are impotent, weak and pathetic.
Then why do I hear
>NOOOOOO SAVE US COMRADE XI NOOOOOOOOO
on here every time burgerland has some sort of a retard attack it needs to take out on its people?

>There is no hope for Marxism-Leninism in the West unless we openly adopt Chinese-style revisionism and actually start to advocate for real material change.
There is no hope for communism in the west when the communists would not even support communism in the first place with this fucktarded unscientific purely person-worship-based doctrine of yours, which, if you were an ML at all, you'd understand was made for the conditions of China.

>We should stop associating with anarchists and the other dregs of society, we need innovators, entrepreneurs, engineers and of course workers
<lets stop associating with the poors and lower classes and instead suck some white collar cock, mmm entrepreneurship
Faggot cuck alert.

>For Leftism to rise again it must take on a new class character, we must embrace the fact that the middle-class is also the working class now and we must fight for their interest
<We must embrace class collaboration for the left to win

>muh gay
please go outside

>we need to appeal to the working class, which is why im talking about appealing to everyone but the proletariat or the filthy stinking dregs of society
China will collapse and burn, leaving you clawing desperately at other left-leaning anti-western states. In time, I'm sure the minutest form of state intervention over economy and society will be AES for you.
>>

 No.406752

>>405669
China theoretically has all the advanced productive forces it needs to build a higher phase socialism like with labour time certificates and full cybernetic planning. However, if they do all that stuff now it would be harder for them to not get isolated. They have to weigh the costs of loosing some surplus to capitalists versus the cost of increasing isolation pressure. Eventually China will become the worlds most powerful economy that nobody can threaten with isolation and also militarily so secure that nobody can threaten them with force either. It will become easier for them to implement more aspects of higher phase socialist production, in that international environment. However they will also have right deviationists internally that will want to go into the direction of becoming a capitalist imperialist power. The external contradictions will fade away while the internal contradictions will sharpen. If they are clever they will incrementally introduce targeted socialization of the means of production, specifically of those capitalists that push for imperialism or political power. The reason why it is so opportune to do it this way because once capitalists start reaching for this kind of power, they generally have reached the end of the line as far as developing productive forces goes. The socialization of proto imperial capital will make an easy testing ground for labour vouchers and other cybernetic policy instruments.
>>

 No.406770

>>406752
>Eventually China will become the worlds most powerful economy that nobody can threaten with isolation and also militarily so secure that nobody can threaten them with force either.
And then they push the socialist button (no). Or they will just become the next USA, which is more likely, provided we don't all die in a nuclear holocaust.

>However they will also have right deviationists internally that will want to go into the direction of becoming a capitalist imperialist power.
They are fully on the way to this. It is not a deviation, it is a main goal already.
>>

 No.406803

China will probably be worthy of all the leftist anger about it in a couple decades; until then, leftists are just mad that others call it socialist. No one can deny the improvements they have made in the living conditions of its workers, nor how unlikely this is as a non western state. It is also clear that these improvements were made with a much less brutal capitalism than is currently practiced in the West. I don't think it's headed to socialism, but if one spends all their time screaming about China and not about the other much worse states out there then they probably need meds.

>>406716
>Then why do I hear
>NOOOOOO SAVE US COMRADE XI NOOOOOOOOO
on here every time burgerland has some sort of a retard attack it needs to take out on its people?
This one's a meme
>>

 No.406821

File: 1627462432883.png ( 259.41 KB , 590x587 , desperate dengists.png )

>>406803
People care more about big buildings and bright lights than communes or the iron rice bowl, among others dismantled by revisionists in power. China to revisionists is a circus for them to soyface at, fawn and fetishize, instead of a country with people who got socialism taken away from them by their corrupted leaders. If you want to sing praises to the Chinese model of capitalism, you have subreddits for that.
>This one's a meme
The more days go by, the less irony this meme has
>>

 No.406895

Dengists are cringe, stupid and wrong
>>

 No.406897

>>406821
>China to revisionists is a circus for them to soyface at, fawn and fetishize, instead of a country with people who got socialism taken away from them by their corrupted leaders.
Being russian i defintely understand what many of them must feel. Imagine being an actual communist in China, shit.
>>

 No.407027

>>406821
ironically though the Dengoids are staunch anti-imperialists
They're so desperate to point to a working, existing example of socialism they'll defend to the hilt a country like Nicaragua
Whilst Maoists today are basically playing the trot role of cold war 1 - "neither Moscow nor Washington" has become "neither beijing or washington"
>>

 No.407029

File: 1627478731266.png ( 1.34 MB , 720x1520 , ClipboardImage.png )

>>403931
Vaush, this discussion is not for you. Please go.
>>

 No.407036

>>403931
>>

 No.407042

>>407029
>Child porn is ok.
>>

 No.407046

>>407029
My fucking-

no, no, no, not watching his videos anytime soon
boycott vaush
>>

 No.407047

>>407027
Everything turns into its opposite. We must understand the process by which a bad thing, such as Dengism, can turn into a good thing. And a good thing, such as Maoism, turning into its opposite and becoming a bad thing.
>>

 No.407048

>>407027
>dengoid defend Nicaragua
Is that why they sold weapons to the contras?
>>

 No.407050

>>407027
>staunch anti imperialists
>building Israel
>crushing revolutionary movements in the phillipines,
>fighting the soviets in afghansitan
>sending arms to the contras
Doubt
>>

 No.407051

>>407047
Are the neither Moscow nor Washington crowd all Mautists? Are leftcoms and Trots dying out?
>>

 No.407057

>>407027
I think the question should be asked whether it is socialism that people want or anti-imperialist left-wing populism. I understand that when alternatives are few, you take anything you can get, but call it for what it is, populism. Calling China socialist is the flipside of calling Northern Europe socialist with both sides having unique ways of making actual socialists cringe.

At least China has been socialist while only fingoloids of all the nordiccs even tried to revolt.
>>

 No.407060

>>406716
That was harsh.
Dengoids deserved it though.
>>

 No.407065

File: 1627480876884.jpg ( 30.96 KB , 669x392 , 85e79d08dec5e730644b4e3700….jpg )

>>407029
>Animals can't consent in general so we might as well rape them. It's not abuse btw
THIS is bourgeois decadence
>>

 No.407067

>>406821
<Tweet related
That shit is true on a deep fucking level.
>>

 No.407081

Dengist = sad American Bernie bro pinning their hopes on something else
>>

 No.407108

>>406821
I am a 12 year old boy in Alabama and my father just drank a bottle of whisky and pulled out his rotten tooth with pliers
President Xi please liberate us
>>

 No.407118

>>407046
T. Twitter
>>

 No.407120

File: 1627483883630.jpg ( 128.71 KB , 1288x356 , kwame nkrumah socialism qu….jpg )

>>406821
>Dogmatist unable to understand reality changes while the sentences in his holy scriptures still remain the same
Socialism is a fucking science, not a religion. Imagine still literally praising every word of Darwin in his origin of species, instead of taking that which is its essence and see what does and doesn't comply with reality and advance further.

I love it how a bunch of dudes on the internet think they are so smart after reading a few books, that they know why "China is not socialist actually". While the CCP has been building and advancing a 1,3 bilion people society attaining achievements never seen in history. Give me one single capitalist society that made 'poverty alliviation' their goal, not mere increase of dollars per capita, but actual material change like a home, food, electricity, an education. Western nations only made vague promises while doing the exact opposite, continuing to rape, pillage and destroy their neo-colonies. China is a beacon of hope to the third world of what an anti-colonial revolution could achiece.
But most "anti-revisionists" (idealist dogmatists) rather ignore reality and point to some paragraphs in their holy books.
Its no coincidence that these dudes are always sweaty white westeners.

Reminds me of the quote of Malcolm X:
>Why do I say this? Because all this has steadily helped this American white man to build up, deep in his psyche, absolute conviction that he _is_ "superior." In how many, many communities have, thus, white men who didn't finish high school regarded condescendingly university-educated local Negro "leaders," principals of schools, teachers, doctors, other professionals?
>>

 No.407122

>REVISIONISM IS BASED
maybe it is, but it's not happening in China
>>

 No.407166

>>398345
>There's no hope for Marxism-Leninism in the west unless we become social democrats and Keynesians
We already have those parties though.
>>

 No.407169

File: 1627486417073.jpg ( 371.84 KB , 2477x1849 , we no longer know what soc….jpg )

>>407120
>Socialism is a fucking science, not a religion.
And science has standards while pseudoscience has the appearance of standards which has dazzled you and many on the far left.
>Imagine still literally praising every word of Darwin in his origin of species, instead of taking that which is its essence and see what does and doesn't comply with reality and advance further.
There is no essence of socialism embraced by the CCP which would differentiate it from capitalist nations with regulated markets, public services, safety nets, state ownership and progressive taxation. It has been discarded.

>I love it how a bunch of dudes on the internet think they are so smart after reading a few books, that they know why "China is not socialist actually". While the CCP has been building and advancing a 1,3 bilion people society attaining achievements never seen in history.
Achievements and advancements riding on the successes of Mao's socialist policies, much like the prosperity of Khrushchev to early Brezhnev era USSR rode on Stalin's socialist policies. This doesn't make China any more communist than

>Give me one single capitalist society that made 'poverty alliviation' their goal, not mere increase of dollars per capita, but actual material change like a home, food, electricity, an education.
Finland. You know why? Because they had to, so that the Finnish working class didn't defect to the soviets and to keep communism at bay, because Finland had lost WW2. It was in ruins after the war.
>Western nations only made vague promises while doing the exact opposite, continuing to rape, pillage and destroy their neo-colonies.
No shit? How the fuck else do you think welfare states can be funded, genius?

>But most "anti-revisionists" (idealist dogmatists) rather ignore reality and point to some paragraphs in their holy books.
Revisionists love to point at an appearance of socialism in form of poverty reduction, socdem reforms and other gibs much like their European counterparts. They love to point at an appearance of science in the form of spamming statistics and studies to prove themselves scientific socialists. Finally, they point at the appearance of innovation or newness in order to allow departure from socialism and introducing capitalism in lieu of 'innovating'.

>Its no coincidence that these dudes are always sweaty white westeners.
They also like to substitute socialism with idpol-fueled populism and fan the flames of ethnic conflict in the east for possibly based geopol 69D chess reasons. I still wouldn't.
>>

 No.407173

>>407169
>This doesn't make China any more communist than
was supposed to end with
>capitalist nations with regulated markets, public services, safety nets, state ownership and progressive taxation
but I fucked up. Disregard it
>>

 No.407193

>>407169
I will just add that in most cases, the "poverty reduction" is nothing more than a statistical trick that shows not the improving standards but change from subsistence farming to wage labor. Neolibs actually like to show off how the alleviate poverty too, with same way the China does it.
>>

 No.407199

>>407193
>change from subsistence farming to wage labor is a statistical trick
interdasting
>>

 No.407201

>>398358
Close, but not exactly. PMCs arose between politburos and workers - they were literally managers, the "technocrats". This class had its own interests and slowly gained representatives in politburo itself - "liberals". It was usually these people that pushed for various reforms and liberalizations which lead to crippled frankenstein systems and ultimately to full transitions to capitalism.
>>

 No.407205

File: 1627487600059.jpg ( 29.06 KB , 588x255 , extreme_poverty.jpg )

>>407199
Because most of the time it is measured in wages and when it goes above some arbitrary line (usually quite low), voila, we have reduced poverty. The thing is, subsitence farming does not necessarily means lower living standards than being a wageslave, especially if you stop thinking about cushy office jobs. Imagine you being a farmer who grew enough produce to sustain your family and live realtively well, then you are working in a mine for a wage just large enough to cross some arbitrary line, your living conditions are worsened, perhaps you can't even sustain your own faily anymore and your children and wife have to work in the mine too, but at least you are no longer poor. In the statistics, at least.
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 No.407213

>>407169
>successes of Mao's socialist policies
Don’t make me laugh
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 No.407240

>>407213
Please, laugh as much as you like to get it out of your system. Then take a look at what's left: sadness, depression, doom and gloom with copious amounts of copium in order to survive cognitive dissonance.

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