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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1627138638110-0.png ( 376.58 KB , 1235x823 , Xi.png )

File: 1627138638110-1.jpeg ( 436.02 KB , 1920x1697 , China Poverty Over Time.jpeg )

File: 1627138638110-2.png ( 55.86 KB , 683x497 , China Reliance.png )

File: 1627138638110-3.png ( 39.15 KB , 938x650 , GDP 2007 vs 2050.PNG )

 No.398345[View All]

Can somebody explain me what the problem is with "revisionism"?
Marx couldn't figure out everything, we have to innovate Marxism, introduce new ideas and concepts from lived experiences, we can't follow dogmatic principles that restrain our range of action and then be surprised when innovative Marxist countries perform way better than the rest of the world, including us.
China is becoming richer and richer while still following core Marxist principles, the height of the economy is controlled by the State in strategic areas, and the private sector is going to become more and more integrated into the state sector, the difference between the two are blurring.

The Leftists screeching about "revisionism" are impotent, weak and pathetic. They will never build something as beautiful as modern China, they will always be focused on petty issues like the "revisionists inside the other party" or the cultural issue of the day.
There is no hope for Marxism-Leninism in the West unless we openly adopt Chinese-style revisionism and actually start to advocate for real material change. Being a Communist is about building the productive forces toward Socialism and Communism, the material relations of productions will automatically follow our level of development, which is why the CPC is advocating for Marxism more than ever, because they are close to building actual Socialism in China.

We should stop associating with anarchists and the other dregs of society, we need innovators, entrepreneurs, engineers and of course workers (but a big part of them - 60% in my home country for instance - have fallen for right-wing populism so most "leftists" hate them). For Leftism to rise again it must take on a new class character, we must embrace the fact that the middle-class is also the working class now and we must fight for their interest. This mean we need to take inspiration from the Three Represents of Jiang Zemin but of course this will trigger the "anti-revisionists" lefties despite them agreeing implicitly with the concept.

Leftism isn't idealism, we won't convert the working class back to Communism using old-school rhetoric, advocating for LGBTQ rights won't help us too since not only 60% of the working class is opposed to it, neoliberals and socdems parties have already appropriated this issue for themselves. We need a new platform, focused on building the productive forces and making everyone richer, strengthen the nation and promote the people's self-determination, socialize the strategic sectors of our economy while letting the entrepreneurs innovate in small-scale privates markets, encourage the rights of workers and protect their living standards against the irrationality of the market. Despite being common sense, these positions will bring the wrath of the dogmatic leftists on me.
WHAT WE NEED ISNT A WAY TO APPEAL TO THE WORKING CLASS THROUGH PETTY DISCOURSE
WE NEED TO HAVE A PLATFORM DEDICATED ENTIRELY TO THE NEEDS OF THE WORKING CLASS WITH NO IDEOLOGICAL BULLSHITTING THAT MADE MARXISM SO DIVIDED IN THE FIRST PLACE
258 posts and 28 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.403952

File: 1627341961147.jpg ( 930.24 KB , 4095x2730 , 0bf1a08d-9d67-4d50-95ba-e4….jpg )

>>403333
Im otherfag but I only care about China turning USA into a nuclear wasteland. Nothing more nothing less. This is the anti-imperialist way.
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 No.403977

>>403943
It wasn't Maoist thought. It was Mao Zedong thought. Liberalism isn't class collaboration, it is an ideology premised on the individual, and it's possible to have a democratic revolution without it, since It is uniquely European.
>>

 No.403982

>>398345
Sorry I believe in socialism not capitalism with red flags.
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 No.404141

China and the CPC aren’t revisionist
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 No.404142

Can't fool me, CAPPY.
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 No.404144

File: 1627348558714.jpeg ( 66.23 KB , 600x381 , 1622790554457.jpeg )

OP made a similar thread last week asking what revisionism was and decided he didn't like any of the usual explanations and is now making up some shitty theory to justify his capitalism
>>

 No.404283

>>403783
NEP lasted just a couple of years and was only allowed because bolsheviks needed for economy to function at least somehow while they were creating a Gosplan (state planning agency). And they knew that they should hurry otherwise they would become fully capitalist. China is fully capitalist, it's not even NEP.
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 No.405096

File: 1627402549279.mp4 ( 2.81 MB , 1920x1080 , mensheviks productive forc….mp4 )

>>403327
> You can't enter into the phase of socialism without the necessary material conditions to do so.
This has been said before in places where the material conditions were sufficient enough for socialist development.
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 No.405113

>>405096
Okay, and that was Russia.
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 No.405126

>>405113
In 1917, Russia was a feudal monarchy with agriculture as its sole relevant industry. Central planning under Lenin and Stalin turned a frozen wasteland into a global superpower.

Modern day China has more than enough industry to support their population. China is reaching agricultural self sufficiency and has a developed industrial base. There is little need for privatization other than to enrich corporate shareholders, many of whom are party members.
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 No.405150

>>405126
>reaching
okay, so they're not there yet.
>>

 No.405496

>>

 No.405508

>>405496
>(You)
Lol what, how did I do that?
>>

 No.405663

>>405126
A lot of dengoids and anti-dengoids meme about productive forces, but if you read/watch Deng's speech on why he wanted these reforms, that's just a part of it. The state of Capital is also highly relevant, and transitioning to socialism at the wrong time will likely have terrible consequences.
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 No.405669

>>405663
>transitioning to socialism at the wrong time will likely have terrible consequences.
Such as?
>>

 No.406661

>>405669
Capitalists would loose their profits. That would be terrible.
>>

 No.406716

The desperation is unreal with the wall of text and infographic spam only matched by holocaust deniers

>>398345
>Can somebody explain me what the problem is with "revisionism"?
It calls itself socialism while being lukewarm non-western left-wing populism and defending capitalist economics as 'socialist with national characteristics', essentially calling itself ML which it opposes and departs from

>Marx couldn't figure out everything, we have to innovate Marxism,
and so we must oppose Marx and depart from marxism in its entirety in the way of Bernstein's evolutionary socialism. Kinda fitting with China evolving to socialism in 2050 or was it 2078 now as revisionists have said?

>The Leftists screeching about "revisionism" are impotent, weak and pathetic.
Then why do I hear
>NOOOOOO SAVE US COMRADE XI NOOOOOOOOO
on here every time burgerland has some sort of a retard attack it needs to take out on its people?

>There is no hope for Marxism-Leninism in the West unless we openly adopt Chinese-style revisionism and actually start to advocate for real material change.
There is no hope for communism in the west when the communists would not even support communism in the first place with this fucktarded unscientific purely person-worship-based doctrine of yours, which, if you were an ML at all, you'd understand was made for the conditions of China.

>We should stop associating with anarchists and the other dregs of society, we need innovators, entrepreneurs, engineers and of course workers
<lets stop associating with the poors and lower classes and instead suck some white collar cock, mmm entrepreneurship
Faggot cuck alert.

>For Leftism to rise again it must take on a new class character, we must embrace the fact that the middle-class is also the working class now and we must fight for their interest
<We must embrace class collaboration for the left to win

>muh gay
please go outside

>we need to appeal to the working class, which is why im talking about appealing to everyone but the proletariat or the filthy stinking dregs of society
China will collapse and burn, leaving you clawing desperately at other left-leaning anti-western states. In time, I'm sure the minutest form of state intervention over economy and society will be AES for you.
>>

 No.406752

>>405669
China theoretically has all the advanced productive forces it needs to build a higher phase socialism like with labour time certificates and full cybernetic planning. However, if they do all that stuff now it would be harder for them to not get isolated. They have to weigh the costs of loosing some surplus to capitalists versus the cost of increasing isolation pressure. Eventually China will become the worlds most powerful economy that nobody can threaten with isolation and also militarily so secure that nobody can threaten them with force either. It will become easier for them to implement more aspects of higher phase socialist production, in that international environment. However they will also have right deviationists internally that will want to go into the direction of becoming a capitalist imperialist power. The external contradictions will fade away while the internal contradictions will sharpen. If they are clever they will incrementally introduce targeted socialization of the means of production, specifically of those capitalists that push for imperialism or political power. The reason why it is so opportune to do it this way because once capitalists start reaching for this kind of power, they generally have reached the end of the line as far as developing productive forces goes. The socialization of proto imperial capital will make an easy testing ground for labour vouchers and other cybernetic policy instruments.
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 No.406770

>>406752
>Eventually China will become the worlds most powerful economy that nobody can threaten with isolation and also militarily so secure that nobody can threaten them with force either.
And then they push the socialist button (no). Or they will just become the next USA, which is more likely, provided we don't all die in a nuclear holocaust.

>However they will also have right deviationists internally that will want to go into the direction of becoming a capitalist imperialist power.
They are fully on the way to this. It is not a deviation, it is a main goal already.
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 No.406803

China will probably be worthy of all the leftist anger about it in a couple decades; until then, leftists are just mad that others call it socialist. No one can deny the improvements they have made in the living conditions of its workers, nor how unlikely this is as a non western state. It is also clear that these improvements were made with a much less brutal capitalism than is currently practiced in the West. I don't think it's headed to socialism, but if one spends all their time screaming about China and not about the other much worse states out there then they probably need meds.

>>406716
>Then why do I hear
>NOOOOOO SAVE US COMRADE XI NOOOOOOOOO
on here every time burgerland has some sort of a retard attack it needs to take out on its people?
This one's a meme
>>

 No.406821

File: 1627462432883.png ( 259.41 KB , 590x587 , desperate dengists.png )

>>406803
People care more about big buildings and bright lights than communes or the iron rice bowl, among others dismantled by revisionists in power. China to revisionists is a circus for them to soyface at, fawn and fetishize, instead of a country with people who got socialism taken away from them by their corrupted leaders. If you want to sing praises to the Chinese model of capitalism, you have subreddits for that.
>This one's a meme
The more days go by, the less irony this meme has
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 No.406895

Dengists are cringe, stupid and wrong
>>

 No.406897

>>406821
>China to revisionists is a circus for them to soyface at, fawn and fetishize, instead of a country with people who got socialism taken away from them by their corrupted leaders.
Being russian i defintely understand what many of them must feel. Imagine being an actual communist in China, shit.
>>

 No.407027

>>406821
ironically though the Dengoids are staunch anti-imperialists
They're so desperate to point to a working, existing example of socialism they'll defend to the hilt a country like Nicaragua
Whilst Maoists today are basically playing the trot role of cold war 1 - "neither Moscow nor Washington" has become "neither beijing or washington"
>>

 No.407029

File: 1627478731266.png ( 1.34 MB , 720x1520 , ClipboardImage.png )

>>403931
Vaush, this discussion is not for you. Please go.
>>

 No.407036

>>403931
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 No.407042

>>407029
>Child porn is ok.
>>

 No.407046

>>407029
My fucking-

no, no, no, not watching his videos anytime soon
boycott vaush
>>

 No.407047

>>407027
Everything turns into its opposite. We must understand the process by which a bad thing, such as Dengism, can turn into a good thing. And a good thing, such as Maoism, turning into its opposite and becoming a bad thing.
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 No.407048

>>407027
>dengoid defend Nicaragua
Is that why they sold weapons to the contras?
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 No.407050

>>407027
>staunch anti imperialists
>building Israel
>crushing revolutionary movements in the phillipines,
>fighting the soviets in afghansitan
>sending arms to the contras
Doubt
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 No.407051

>>407047
Are the neither Moscow nor Washington crowd all Mautists? Are leftcoms and Trots dying out?
>>

 No.407057

>>407027
I think the question should be asked whether it is socialism that people want or anti-imperialist left-wing populism. I understand that when alternatives are few, you take anything you can get, but call it for what it is, populism. Calling China socialist is the flipside of calling Northern Europe socialist with both sides having unique ways of making actual socialists cringe.

At least China has been socialist while only fingoloids of all the nordiccs even tried to revolt.
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 No.407060

>>406716
That was harsh.
Dengoids deserved it though.
>>

 No.407065

File: 1627480876884.jpg ( 30.96 KB , 669x392 , 85e79d08dec5e730644b4e3700….jpg )

>>407029
>Animals can't consent in general so we might as well rape them. It's not abuse btw
THIS is bourgeois decadence
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 No.407067

>>406821
<Tweet related
That shit is true on a deep fucking level.
>>

 No.407081

Dengist = sad American Bernie bro pinning their hopes on something else
>>

 No.407108

>>406821
I am a 12 year old boy in Alabama and my father just drank a bottle of whisky and pulled out his rotten tooth with pliers
President Xi please liberate us
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 No.407118

>>407046
T. Twitter
>>

 No.407120

File: 1627483883630.jpg ( 128.71 KB , 1288x356 , kwame nkrumah socialism qu….jpg )

>>406821
>Dogmatist unable to understand reality changes while the sentences in his holy scriptures still remain the same
Socialism is a fucking science, not a religion. Imagine still literally praising every word of Darwin in his origin of species, instead of taking that which is its essence and see what does and doesn't comply with reality and advance further.

I love it how a bunch of dudes on the internet think they are so smart after reading a few books, that they know why "China is not socialist actually". While the CCP has been building and advancing a 1,3 bilion people society attaining achievements never seen in history. Give me one single capitalist society that made 'poverty alliviation' their goal, not mere increase of dollars per capita, but actual material change like a home, food, electricity, an education. Western nations only made vague promises while doing the exact opposite, continuing to rape, pillage and destroy their neo-colonies. China is a beacon of hope to the third world of what an anti-colonial revolution could achiece.
But most "anti-revisionists" (idealist dogmatists) rather ignore reality and point to some paragraphs in their holy books.
Its no coincidence that these dudes are always sweaty white westeners.

Reminds me of the quote of Malcolm X:
>Why do I say this? Because all this has steadily helped this American white man to build up, deep in his psyche, absolute conviction that he _is_ "superior." In how many, many communities have, thus, white men who didn't finish high school regarded condescendingly university-educated local Negro "leaders," principals of schools, teachers, doctors, other professionals?
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 No.407122

>REVISIONISM IS BASED
maybe it is, but it's not happening in China
>>

 No.407166

>>398345
>There's no hope for Marxism-Leninism in the west unless we become social democrats and Keynesians
We already have those parties though.
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 No.407169

File: 1627486417073.jpg ( 371.84 KB , 2477x1849 , we no longer know what soc….jpg )

>>407120
>Socialism is a fucking science, not a religion.
And science has standards while pseudoscience has the appearance of standards which has dazzled you and many on the far left.
>Imagine still literally praising every word of Darwin in his origin of species, instead of taking that which is its essence and see what does and doesn't comply with reality and advance further.
There is no essence of socialism embraced by the CCP which would differentiate it from capitalist nations with regulated markets, public services, safety nets, state ownership and progressive taxation. It has been discarded.

>I love it how a bunch of dudes on the internet think they are so smart after reading a few books, that they know why "China is not socialist actually". While the CCP has been building and advancing a 1,3 bilion people society attaining achievements never seen in history.
Achievements and advancements riding on the successes of Mao's socialist policies, much like the prosperity of Khrushchev to early Brezhnev era USSR rode on Stalin's socialist policies. This doesn't make China any more communist than

>Give me one single capitalist society that made 'poverty alliviation' their goal, not mere increase of dollars per capita, but actual material change like a home, food, electricity, an education.
Finland. You know why? Because they had to, so that the Finnish working class didn't defect to the soviets and to keep communism at bay, because Finland had lost WW2. It was in ruins after the war.
>Western nations only made vague promises while doing the exact opposite, continuing to rape, pillage and destroy their neo-colonies.
No shit? How the fuck else do you think welfare states can be funded, genius?

>But most "anti-revisionists" (idealist dogmatists) rather ignore reality and point to some paragraphs in their holy books.
Revisionists love to point at an appearance of socialism in form of poverty reduction, socdem reforms and other gibs much like their European counterparts. They love to point at an appearance of science in the form of spamming statistics and studies to prove themselves scientific socialists. Finally, they point at the appearance of innovation or newness in order to allow departure from socialism and introducing capitalism in lieu of 'innovating'.

>Its no coincidence that these dudes are always sweaty white westeners.
They also like to substitute socialism with idpol-fueled populism and fan the flames of ethnic conflict in the east for possibly based geopol 69D chess reasons. I still wouldn't.
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 No.407173

>>407169
>This doesn't make China any more communist than
was supposed to end with
>capitalist nations with regulated markets, public services, safety nets, state ownership and progressive taxation
but I fucked up. Disregard it
>>

 No.407193

>>407169
I will just add that in most cases, the "poverty reduction" is nothing more than a statistical trick that shows not the improving standards but change from subsistence farming to wage labor. Neolibs actually like to show off how the alleviate poverty too, with same way the China does it.
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 No.407199

>>407193
>change from subsistence farming to wage labor is a statistical trick
interdasting
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 No.407201

>>398358
Close, but not exactly. PMCs arose between politburos and workers - they were literally managers, the "technocrats". This class had its own interests and slowly gained representatives in politburo itself - "liberals". It was usually these people that pushed for various reforms and liberalizations which lead to crippled frankenstein systems and ultimately to full transitions to capitalism.
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 No.407205

File: 1627487600059.jpg ( 29.06 KB , 588x255 , extreme_poverty.jpg )

>>407199
Because most of the time it is measured in wages and when it goes above some arbitrary line (usually quite low), voila, we have reduced poverty. The thing is, subsitence farming does not necessarily means lower living standards than being a wageslave, especially if you stop thinking about cushy office jobs. Imagine you being a farmer who grew enough produce to sustain your family and live realtively well, then you are working in a mine for a wage just large enough to cross some arbitrary line, your living conditions are worsened, perhaps you can't even sustain your own faily anymore and your children and wife have to work in the mine too, but at least you are no longer poor. In the statistics, at least.
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 No.407213

>>407169
>successes of Mao's socialist policies
Don’t make me laugh
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 No.407240

>>407213
Please, laugh as much as you like to get it out of your system. Then take a look at what's left: sadness, depression, doom and gloom with copious amounts of copium in order to survive cognitive dissonance.

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