/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

Based law school Marxism

>>397257
>And if you believe in natural law, you believe in spooks.
Read the Marxist analysis here.

You can do the same with "theft", it's only theft if it is legally codified as such. Every consitution enables the state to expropriate.

Stalin was a mass executioner.

Then neither was Hitler?

>>397292
Yes, the Final Solution was legal. The problem was never it's legality, but that it was xenophobic and reactionary.

>>397304
>>397292
Both you chucklefucks miss the point. It’s that Stalin, who himself and whose forces I do think committed some excesses and unforced errors, believed that the people who were killed were guilty of the crimes that they were accused of. Hitler, otoh, didn’t care and just wanted to liquidate people.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Nazism_and_Stalinism
> Australian historian and archival researcher Stephen G. Wheatcroft posits that "[t]he Stalinist regime was consequently responsible for about a million purposive killings, and through its criminal neglect and irresponsibility it was probably responsible for the premature deaths of about another two million more victims amongst the repressed population, i.e. in the camps, colonies, prisons, exile, in transit and in the POW camps for Germans. These are clearly much lower figures than those for whom Hitler's regime was responsible." Wheatcroft also says that, unlike Hitler, Stalin's "purposive killings" fit more closely into the category of "execution" than "murder", given he thought the accused were indeed guilty of crimes against the state and insisted on documentation, whereas Hitler simply wanted to kill Jews and communists because of who they were, and insisted on no documentation and was indifferent at even a pretence of legality for these actions.[158]

>>397292
There was actually an extensive debate whether the Holocaust was "legal" or not amongst German jurisprudence. The overall consensus is, no, it was not, because technically the Weimar constitution was still in effect and none of the "emergency laws" (Notstandsgesetz) that allowed Hitler to stay in power would have given cover to such a thing.

semantics autism

>>397304
Neither of which were illegal.

>>397353
Well, it's for arguing with libs. Libs love legal positivism (which not even bourgeois jurisprudence subscribes to), of course nobody who is a materialist believes that "it's in the law, so it's okay".

Big redpill incoming though: laws are not part of the superstructure as it is often proclaimed in these oversimplifying graphs about base and superstructure. Laws are part of the relations of production, or rather, their mirror (otherwise, relations of production would also be part of the superstructure and only productive forces would constitute the base).

>>397351
The official date given for the start of the Holocaust is December 8, 1941, two years after the start of WW2. I believe war time conditions would refute the idea that the holocaust would have happened had it not been for the war.

A whole lotta motherfuckas needed to get murdered back then.

>>397353
Liberal legality is exactly why law is so flawed. Laws are meant to be these perfect things and yet they are very different in practice. The reality is that all law is relative. A revolutionary government has the right to enforce its own laws according its own conditions as it sees fit and will be correct. An incorrect law is a law that is separate from its theoretical existence that it becomes simply wrong. This happens when a society is in contradiction between the masses and the laws of such a society. Only liberals think ethereal absolute rights exists. Lawyers worship the law as if it’s something separate from society that is absolute and neutral. In reality law comes into millions of contradictions. Even the Bible took a legal stance such as the cut thy hand if it offends thee.

>>397363
Yes

>>397362
But even martial law does not mean lawlessness. By standards of international law, according to the Hague Ground Warfare Convention and the Geneva Convention, pretty much all of what the Nazis did was illegal.

what is the most accurate "excess/unnecessary/avoidable death count" for Stalin's regime and for the USSR in general?
>inb4 0 :^)
>inb4 WWII German casualties
>inb4 muh holodomor
>inb4 daddy Stalin dindu nuffin

>>397381
5,999,999 making him one less bad than Adolf Hitler.

>>397381
Well, let's not forget that Stalin already killed quite a few people before becoming our glorious leader

>>397381
ussr under stalin carried out approximately 800k executions total. is that useful at all? i wouldn't think calculating "excess camp deaths" is very straightforward anyway.

>>397360
>laws are not part of the superstructure as it is often proclaimed in these oversimplifying graphs about base and superstructure. Laws are part of the relations of production, or rather, their mirror (otherwise, relations of production would also be part of the superstructure and only productive forces would constitute the base).
Not really, laws do not dictate how relations of production work. Instead they codify what is already a fact. That is why they are superstructure and not the base.

Also, even if you were correct, it would mean that only some laws would be part of the base. I don't think that prohibition of public urination has a lot to do with relations of production, for example.

>>397381
How can I know? I don't have all the Soviet files with me so I couldn't tell you who were innocent, wrongfully convicted people. So all I can give you is zero, sorry dude. Okay I'll say only the wrongfully convicted were the excess, everyone else deserved whatever brutality the Soviets inflicted on others.

Soviet socialism had such a rough start with many casualties because they had to create defenses against imperial capitalists that were about to do a WW2. The people that died during the rushed buildup for the defensive war machine the Soviets needed to survive were also casualties of WW2. Most of the more repressive elements of the Soviet state were caused by contradictions of building socialism within a world that still had a capitalist superstructure. If all the capitalist countries would have been peaceful neighbors, there never would have been a need for "stalinism"

The Soviet system has to be compared with capitalist states in the periphery, because that was the alternative for the Soviet region. They either went with Stalin to build a superpower, or they could have become capitalist vassals in the periphery. Considering that genocide was somewhat common and regular in the periphery even for liberal capitalist empires, going with Stalin was a no-brainer. Once the soviet system was fully established the repression that people faced was at least a magnitude lower than what exists in the capitalist periphery even to this day. If all countries in the periphery of capitalism would do a "stalinism", the total sum of repression that people on earth are facing would go down, that's how bad it is.

For anybody willing to contest this, stalinism for most soviet people meant that life expectancy almost doubled within one generation. You can put on ideological blenders of one kind or an other to justify or condemn the soviet system but you can't argue with those results.

>>397942
>. If all the capitalist countries would have been peaceful neighbors
Never going to happen. And regarding repression of the bourgeoisie, this was already present since 1918, it was a response to the assassination of Bolsheviks by counterrevolutionaries. At first the Bolsheviks were too lenient, they even let captured white guardists like Krasnov go free. But they soon learned their lesson. Communists shouldn't apologise for class repression, it's a necessary part.

>>397257
"The law" is a spook. Fuck off, tankie.

>>397257
the source of law is the collective will
if people decide that Stalin was a murderer, then he actually was

>>398031
Stalin has 70% or so approval rating in Russia
So…
>>398008
The point was that at least some of the deaths that occurred should be counted as caused by capitalism, because they would not have occurred if the dominant mode of production in world wasn't imperial capitalism.

The other point is that peaceful is the default position for a country and that war and aggression is a deviation.

>>397257
>murderer
>executioner
yeah, cool and what is the difference, lol