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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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 No.396741[Last 50 Posts]

Elysium is looking less like fiction everyday. Private corporations are now conquering space and they will leave the poors behind. They’re already perfecting rockets and most likely will build private space stations that are too expensive for normal workers. If we don’t have a revolution soon the billionaires and millionaires and shareholders will leave us here to rot.
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 No.396743

why not just get a job that would be in demand on mars?
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 No.396746

>private corporations are conquering space

they've barely caught up with what NASA did nearly a century ago
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 No.396753

>>396746
Keep in mind NASA was always itself a big funnel of public-private partnerships and graft.
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 No.396754

>They’re already perfecting rockets and most likely will build private space stations that are too expensive for normal workers.

Look at what goes on at the ISS. Being an astronaut is a miserable experience that requires entire buildings of people working around the clock to make sure you don't die. Even if Bezos did manage to launch one of his mansions into space, without constant support from many installations here on earth it would quickly become just an expensive tomb.

There is no danger of Elysium happening.
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 No.396758

>>396743
The whole point my classcucked friend is that everything will be automated for them in space as well. They will not need workers.
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 No.396761

>>396758
doubtful full automation is a meme
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 No.396763

When everything is automated the material basis for wealth (labor) is gone. It can only be a fleeting episode in history.
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 No.396767

>>396763
>When everything is automated the material basis for wealth (labor) is gone
Only wealth in the sense of economic value. An automated system that produces food, shelter, etc is still producing actual material wealth. It just undermines the basis of monetary value.
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 No.396770

>>396763
If the bourgeois can eliminate the need for a working class they would have achieved communism
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 No.396845

>>396746
Keep underestimating accumulation of capital. Read theory because this is basic Marxism101.
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 No.396849

>>396754
Don’t be retarded. Elysium itself is al allegory for the rich sitting in their high towers, far away from the poors. How many people you see swarming mansions and gated billionaire communities demanding shit? I know that you’re on the spectrum and you can’t see subtlety in things but please my guy, try to follow the point.
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 No.396850

>>396770
>when you don’t read theory
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 No.396857

>>396849
op is literally talking about the rich escaping to space stations you fuck
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 No.396865

Watch this OP:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sP43SxagNao

There is no need to fear for Elysium. Mainly because its really fucking improbable technologically. As someone who actually went over a uni course that talked about Mars colonization, its chances are pathetic. At absolute best with bilions invested you'd get a shitty, stuffy hole im the ground onars that would have zero amenities outside basic survival. Any other planet is even more improbable.
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 No.396871

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 No.396876

>>396850
>muh theory developed before the diesel engine tells me that the bourgs can't possibly automate everything
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 No.396972

File: 1627076382926.jpg ( 429.41 KB , 1280x720 , votoms_35th.jpg )

Gundam (and other real robot stories) proposes space changes nothing as war would just follow humanity into space.
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 No.397266

>>396741
While I don't disagree
earth will sooner erupt into a million pieces than bourg gets enough tech for long term space exploitation
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 No.397419

Mars is like Earth millions of years past apocalypse. How shitty would Earth have to be for Mars to be the better option? Seems like a completely retarded idea. The first people to Mars will die in a Martian prison
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 No.397506

File: 1627091028745-0.jpg ( 288.79 KB , 1200x803 , TekhnikaMolodezh1965.jpg )

File: 1627091028745-1.jpg ( 92.27 KB , 800x535 , TekhnikaMolodezhiSep1965.jpg )

>>397419
Old school futurism figured that free from our gravity well, the vast resources of our solar system would require far less logistics to utilize then getting into Earth orbit thus we'd be able to build far grander civilization in space.
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 No.397526

>>396741
What is "a revolution"?

Alienation from society demands the regeneration of society. Consult your local community members today. Bring your work clothes.

Douglas Adams for lulz and praxis
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYsng5_5h3g
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 No.397531

>>396876
>Marx didn’t take into account automation!!!
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 No.397534

>>396865
Don’t underestimate the need of CEOs to try and dip from earth before it becomes unlivable while still appropriating it’s resources as well as getting rich off space mining.
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 No.397537

>>397531
he didn't
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 No.397598

>>397506
I guess that once interplanetary freight and construction (lol, technology overall) develop to such a point, that might help colonization. but until then, the first people to go to mars will be desperate for a new frontier, and will die in this totally unnecessary escapade, living inside until death, and many will call them heroes
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 No.397606

Oh fuck okay so worst case scenario is that the rich see that they can build shit in space now and invest all their shit into mining out asteroids or something. Would that mean we have capitalism for another thousand years? Would that not be a HUGE way to offset the falling rate of profit if they find value in going to space?
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 No.397610

File: 1627093685053.mp4 ( 4.78 MB , 480x360 , BTFO.mp4 )

>>397531
Checkmate marxs
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 No.397617

>>397606
Amazon orbital drops
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 No.397624

File: 1627094292004.jpg ( 32.23 KB , 474x266 , MSN-04Sazabi.jpg )

>>397617
So we have Universal Century Gundam to look forward to?
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 No.397625

>conquering space
Every other rocket they launch fucking explodes lmao
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 No.397814

>>396741
sounds like a win-win to me, we let Bezos colonize Mars and rot on it for our spectacle as he wastes less resources for us down here
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 No.397822

>>397606
>Oh fuck okay so worst case scenario is that the rich see that they can build shit in space now and invest all their shit into mining out asteroids or something. Would that mean we have capitalism for another thousand years? Would that not be a HUGE way to offset the falling rate of profit if they find value in going to space?
The falling rate of profit kills capitalism by 2050, so they would have 30 years left, to invent space worthy industrial production and get it up into orbit. They want to do that with rockets alone ? Rockets are 9 parts fuel and 1 part cargo, so find out how much mass needs to go up to bootstrap space industry and then multiply by nine for the fuel. If they were serious about this they would be building some kind of mass driver.
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 No.397861

File: 1627106147613.gif ( 3.53 MB , 340x192 , zach.gif )

>>397531
>Marx didn’t take into account automation!!!
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 No.397900

>>396763
The servitude industry is booming now. There will always be demand for the subjugation of others.

Why wouldn't Porky substitute "real" scarcity with harsher enforcement, licensing and other bureaucratic schemes?
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 No.398155

>>397900
there will be robot slaves. porky is not big bad "evil" that will stop at nothing to make life hard for humanity. they're just humans like the rest of us.
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 No.398303

>Capitalists leave us to rot.
Good?
Like if porky straight up abandoned the world for some self-sufficient space station which would subsequently destroy the global economy then thats a pretty good moment for a chance at revolution.

The global-USSR can just build space-flights and space-stations of our own later on if we wish
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 No.398326

Living in space would suck. I'd love it for them to go there. We can back all the land and factories while they're in their space station that will eventually get ripped to pieces by asteroids or satellite debris
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 No.398327

>>398326
>We can back
Take back
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 No.398341

File: 1627138527602.gif ( 152.55 KB , 322x394 , loling-trollface.gif )

>>398326
>Elysium as a self constructed space gulag
would be very ironic
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 No.398500

>>398155
"just humans" do incredibly horrific shit all the time, powerful leaders have long been notorious for being pointlessly cruel, shit tons of them are pedophiles who are perfectly okay with abusing the fuck out of people even personally one-on-one.
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 No.398502

>>398155
Seeing porky as human is a mistake. If Marx was wrong about something it is that should try and “liberate them too”. I say all porkies earning over billionaire should be pressed into forced labor: 14 hour days, 7 days a week, 12 months, one meal a day. And this should be the policy for decades.
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 No.398507

>>398502
>I say all porkies earning over billionaire should be pressed into forced labor: 14 hour days, 7 days a week, 12 months, one meal a day. And this should be the policy for decades.
Why? Literally wtf is the point?
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 No.398509

>>398303
Even I can think of certain simple solutions to quell the populations. They can always play the meritocracy card and make earth a truly Social Darwinian hellscape of survival of the fittest. People will sooner claw each other’s eyes out than attack billionaires.
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 No.398512

>>398502
>I say all porkies earning over billionaire should be pressed into forced labor: 14 hour days, 7 days a week, 12 months, one meal a day. And this should be the policy for decades.
Why? Literally wtf is the point?
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 No.398515

>>396746
NASA is literally completely fucked, SpaceX Falcon 9 is decades ahead of all competition.

You're a retard if you equate the space shuttle with extremely efficent F9.
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 No.398518

>>396754
The ISS was built with the hopelessly misengineered Space shuttle (Airforce had stupid demands because they hoped for a military application that would turn out to not exist).
When Starship is rolled out, Elysium will become reality
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 No.398520

>>397419
Mars is easy mode for astroid mining.
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 No.398522

>>397625
You're a decade behind, private rockets are extremely safe and reliable.
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 No.398526

>teh new private sector spess rockets are just a billion billion times better than the space shuttle!
anyone who thinks this should honestly be put in re-education camps and then physics classrooms.
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 No.398527

>>398518
>The ISS was built with the hopelessly misengineered Space shuttle
Bad point, completely irrelevant.

>>398515
Also irrelevant

You're both morons that don't know anything about how difficult it is to survive in space and that it isn't going to fucking happen in any of these retards' lifetimes, sorry to break it to you.
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 No.398529

File: 1627144239576.png ( 88.35 KB , 208x516 , soyuz-diagram-1.png )

>>398515
The Soyuz rocket is a proven work horse that latest models holds the best safety record due to it being in service so long that all the flaws have been found and fixed.
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 No.398532

>>398529
>This thing will get you to the moon on a single tank of kerosene.
>Put it in H!
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 No.398534

>>398529
It's old and can't compete anymore, it can't compete with the F9

>>398527
>it's irrelevant that technology progresses and changes the game
Do you need help, retard?
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 No.398542

>>398534
So what's the Falcon 9's Isp?
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 No.398548

>>398542
Rockets don't have ISP, engines have, current Merlin engines have around 300, depends if they are in vacuum or atmosphere.
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 No.398550

File: 1627144895207.jpg ( 6.11 MB , 3000x1832 , SaturnVScale.jpg )

>>398534
You want more thrust there is the Saturn V
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 No.398556

File: 1627145072855.png ( 43.02 KB , 960x588 , 5432546.png )

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 No.398575

>>398529
The F9 has more specific impulse, more fuel, a reuseable (not refurbishble like space shuttle) 1st stage and is much cheaper.
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 No.398596

>>398155
Humans can and do derive pleasure from subjugating others. Why would it be inhuman for capitalists to seek turning the workers into servants once their labor is no longer needed?
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 No.398674

>>398556
>spacexstaship 13 dollars per kilo
Is that real world data from actually sending stuff in space, or is that marketing hyper figures
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 No.398700

>>398674
What do you think, this is Musk we're talking about.

Maybe he means that it only costs him $13 because government subsidies pay for the rest.
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 No.398706

>>398700
This. Those big corporations are massively subsidized.
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 No.398708

>>398556
If you believe this then you have a cool new ride in Las Vegas ahead of you :)
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 No.398710

>>396761
Just needs to be enough where autogenocide of 80% of the population becomes viable
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 No.398712

File: 1627150206436.png ( 177.04 KB , 294x504 , RS25.png )

>>398548
So the rocket is outright less efficient than the Space Shuttle's?
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 No.398720

>>398155
Porky is not human. He is a vassal for capital accumulation.
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 No.398726

>>398341
Mars is the real wildcard. On one level, ruling mars would be pointless. I truly believe that Elon Musk wants to become Emperor of Mars and claim it as his planetary kingdom. Accordin to the Outer Space Treaty, which entered force in 1967, nation states are from claiming celestial bodies, but *there is no such provision forbidding private individuals from doing so.*

He would rule over barren wastelands and windstorms, an empire of dust. Mars has tremendously rich ore deposits, though transporting it back to earth to trade in the earth economy would be negated by the costs of interplanetary freight. Also, the population scalability of Mars is very limited. Surviving there would be a great challenge, worse than any sort of frontier pioneering ever undertaken on earth. Most of all, to make Mars an attractive place to settle, it would have to be terraformed, a massive and unprecedented operation which also requires finding some means to remediate its electromagnetic field, a feat which is perhaps unknown to science and which certainly outstrips any of mankind's engineering knowlege. To say nothing of the logistics of this operation.

Mars therefore is really just a curiosity for the superfluously rich to prize and explore so that they can go down in history. Although I seriously do believe Musk wants to claim it as his own planet, he's that much of a prick. And he has an opening legally to do so.
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 No.398728

>>398341
>nation states are from claiming celestial bodies
are *forbidden from claiming
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 No.398750

>>398726
Musk won't be able to claim mars, if he actually does a mars thing and declares him self the emperor of mars, others will still be able to go to mars as well, and do what ever they want. He can't do anything to enforce his mars empire, anybody that can send people to mars can also send "other payloads". You can't own stuff in space, enclosure is not practical, you have to get along with the other people in space.
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 No.398802

>>398750
If he monopolizes the technology to get to mars he can control access to it.
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 No.398806

>>398802
The issue isn't getting to mars as a technological feat. We could send people there. The problem is they will die within a month.
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 No.398807

File: 1627155493465.gif ( 1.76 MB , 500x281 , CharKickOrgins.gif )

>>398802
>If he monopolizes the technology
Has never happened in human history, anything that had been militarily useful has been researched by competing militarily powers as generals don't give a shit about the intellectual property rights of the enemy
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 No.398827

>>398556
Starship will never even leave the atmosphere, let alone do anything useful.
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 No.398833

File: 1627156642568.png ( 3.51 MB , 1920x1080 , ClipboardImage.png )

>Elysium
You mean poor man's Gunnm?
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 No.398841

In contrast to what the average childless science fiction writer wants you to believe, policymakers aren't beholden to the addict and rather to the non-addicts of the city who have entrusted them with responsibility to keep order
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 No.398847

>>398827
Are you retarded? Starships development is lightning fast compared to every other rocket.
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 No.398849

>>398841
The fact of the matter is you can't policy your way out of homelessness/addicts/mental illness etc. But you can isolate it for both its own good and the city's broader health

That's why we had mental institutions, Skid Row, and medieval vagabond camps
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 No.398850

>>398674
Starship will be fully and rapidly reusable, at the end only fuel costs will matter.
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 No.398852

>>398712
Ofcource, Hydrolox is an inherently more energy rich fuel than Kerolox. On the other hand it is more difficult to work with and store it.
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 No.398854

>>398847
Starship is fundamentally flawed. https://youtu.be/cDYt-phUAxY
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 No.398859

>>398854
>youtube
Make your own argument, faggot.
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 No.398863

>>398854
Lol dude you’re not an engineer and you aren’t working on any legitimate construction of a rocket. You think some billionaires can not afford to salary some expert engineers to build some shit? You have the mind of a child which is funny as hell.
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 No.398865

>>398863
>Lol dude you’re not an engineer and you aren’t working on any legitimate construction of a rocket. You think some billionaires can not afford to salary some expert engineers to build some shit? You have the mind of a child which is funny as hell.
You spoke like redditor
>>

 No.398866

>>398859
Why would I when there's an excellent series explaining it in detail?
>>398863
This board has unironic Muskrats now? Depressing.
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 No.398867

>>398807
Were no longer in the Cold War era and while you’re right that governments help develop shit. They’re throwing money right now at private corporations that can do whatever they want with no accountability because they are “private”. They aren’t bound by bureaucracy and with massive subsidies paying for this shit, it’s still a private company with free reign to go crazy.
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 No.398871

>>398866
Who said I love Musk? All I said is that you aren’t some expert building these rockets.
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 No.398873

>>398865
Porky loving faggot.
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 No.398875

>>398871
No, but even I can see Starship has some fundamental flaws in its design, which makes me wonder why SpaceX engineers haven't. Maybe they have, but Musk is insisting on bad design anyway?
>>

 No.398877

>>398867
Again war planners don't care about the supposed rights of the enemy thus will steal enemy plans if need be. For example if the PRC goes to war against the USA, they are not going to care about the rights of US companies.
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 No.398879

>>398866
>Why would I when there's an excellent series explaining it in detail?
Because I don't discuss with some Eceleb on youtube but with (you)
>>398875
>but even I can see Starship has some fundamental flaws in its design
Name them, make your own argument.
>>

 No.398882

>>398875
Do you think engineers just build shit and don’t have alpha and beta versions of these things? This is why they plan, build, test, go back to the drawing board. This is literally basic engineering type shit whether it’s done by a private company or government project.
>>

 No.398883

>>398854
>1. He assumes that each passenger requires 5.5lb of food a day based on a NASA news article for the ISS. This far more than would be needed, and to verify this claim all he would have needed to do is check the caloric density of preserved food. For example, 1900 kcal of commercially available freeze-dried meals is only 0.8lb (85% less than claimed!).
>2. The next screen he goes on to examine the water usage for a hypothetical trip to mars. He assumes the current 93% water recycling efficiency on a 4-person ISS mission will also be the case for a 100-person Starship cruise. This he calculates out to 2250lbs of water loss per day. I'm really not sure where over a ton of water is going to waste since a spaceship is a completely sealed system. The water loss on the ISS is mainly due to EVAs and other openings of airlocks as well as waste from scientific experiments, none of which will be present on a trip to Mars.
>3. The transit time he uses for all of his calculations is wrong. 9 months is close to what you need for a minimum energy Hohmann transfer, but a more realistic cruise phase is 5-6 months. Perseverance launched on July 30 and it's already on the surface, and that was just an unmanned rover.
>4. Finally, and probably most importantly, all the calculations are based off of a figure of 100 people to Mars. SpaceX's chief Mars development engineer has flatly stated that this is not realistic and that they are targeting "much smaller crews" for initial missions.
>>

 No.398886

>>398877
I dont see how this is against my point.
>>

 No.398889

>>398534
>it's irrelevant that technology progresses and changes the game

It doesn't change the fact that any kind of human life in space requires massive amounts of support from the earth, around the clock support, from hundreds or thousands of people, and the slightest thing wrong means everyone on your space station dies regardless of whether you got there in spacex or the spruce goose, you dumb fucking asshole
>>

 No.398891

>>398883
>4. Finally, and probably most importantly, all the calculations are based off of a figure of 100 people to Mars.
Because that's what Musk keeps claiming. This video is the first in a series going over Starship's many flaws.
>>

 No.398893

>>398886
This means they can't have a monopoly as their supposed rights to the technology will be ignored by competing nations.
>>

 No.398896

>>398889
>It doesn't change the fact that any kind of human life in space requires massive amounts of support from the earth
*currently
There is potentially infinite energy because of the 100% predictible sun exposure and large amounts of material from the various Near Earth Asteroids.
>>

 No.398900

>>398891
Not achieving hyperspecific goals doesn't mean that it's an inherent design flaw, lmao.
Besides ITT we speak about starships ability to get cheaply large amounts of material into LEO to build a Huge space station.
>>

 No.398902

>>398891
>This video is the first in a series going over Starship's many flaws.
If it starts off so retarded and ignorant, why should I take your word that it is legit scientific work from here on?
>>

 No.398905

>>398891
>Because that's what Musk keeps claiming.
He didn't "claim" shit but states goals, learn the diffrence.
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 No.398906

>>398896
Assuming unlimited energy doesn't solve your issues. "currently" here effectively comes down to "and then we dump all our trash in the matter recycler and the star trek grade replicator does molecular 3d printing of literally anything we need" in order to work within the constraints of rocketry.
>>

 No.398919

>>398896
>*currently
Unless those near earth asteroids have petroleum in them or any of the billion other things a space station needs to support human life then it still means fuck all dumb dumb
>>

 No.398923

>>398919
Ok, this post is extremely retarded. Why does a space station need fucking petroleum? Lmao, asteroids are full of water and other shit, you need only water and electricity to create fuel and oxygen. You can even use the sabatier reaction to filter out CO2 from the air and produce Methane.
>>

 No.398947

>>398923
>space stations have no need for plastics, lubricants, fertilizers or other vital petroleum products

You're a fucking dipshit and have no idea what is required for a self sustaining community in space
>>

 No.398959

>>398947
You don't need plastics and the rest you can get without petroleum
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 No.399008

>>398959
yeah whatever retard
>>

 No.399014

>>399008
>no argument
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 No.399692

>>399008
In space, metal is literally bumping into you in the form of micro asteroids and human scale of mass doesn't matter in space thus what is the point of plastic when in space even tungsten would be far cheaper the plastic on Earth?
>>

 No.400050

>>399692
The real prize of space is landing on specific larger asteroids to mine them properly, not through catching micro asteroids. Micro asteroids are more likely to cause structural damage than be something that can be harvested to form said structures.
>>

 No.400063

>>398807
Problem is all the world's governments are putting their money into preparing to destroy each other. Not going to space. The Space Race was a quirk.
>>

 No.400068

>>400063
that the space race was the closest thing to "Real Capitalism" the world has seen yet and yet was entirely conducted between two governments remains highly amusing to me.
>>

 No.400069

>>400068
And one of them was communist! First as tragedy then as farce I suppose.
>>

 No.400089

>>399692
>In space, metal is literally bumping into you in the form of micro asteroids
At incredibly high speeds, causing damage that requires constant repair.

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