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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1626994716184.jpeg ( 79.43 KB , 696x392 , indg.jpeg )

 No.395026[View All]

Is leftypol for indigenous peoples rights or is that just radlib shit? Should the socialist state give them protected land to live on or just force them to assimilate?
169 posts and 23 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.395686

>>395684
That's the post the person replied to and told me I'm poor for thinking that's rich.

Read up to the replies
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 No.395692

>>395678
Again receiving thousands of dollars every year isn't what is considered rich. If only you know the capital gains the wealthy receive every year.

>>395681
I swear poor people seem to think any assessment of them becomes sneering.

>you could try to convince them that it isn't some fifty something High School teacher who is their enemy but Jeff Bezos and the government

The person ranting about the Seminoles doesn't really care who or what the teacher or Bezos earns, what they are doing is to muddy the waters, to personify (and idpolize) the mechanics of capitalism. By getting us to single out specific groups or individuals, the criticism and solution towards capitalism becomes reforming certain elements rather than reforming the system. That's why poor people sneer at middle class lifestyle without pivoting to anti-capitalism, they are just mad that others have more than them, not the mechanics and rationalization of inequality.
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 No.395695

>>395692
This is total bullshit assumptions of me. Implying that I can't discuss the earning average of Seminoles in florida that is higher than anyone else's and at same time critique big corps not paying taxes. I am able to do both

All you've said to me is that I am poor for making 120k a year + all your extra income and you are excluded for many taxes anyone else has to pay. This is rich by any measurement
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 No.395698

>>395695
> Implying that I can't discuss the earning average of Seminoles in florida that is higher than anyone else's and at same time critique big corps not paying taxes.
I didn't say either of those things. I am saying your earnings however high, is not enough for you to actually meet and understand how the truly wealthy earn and live their life. You simply do not have the means and the imagination to understand the magnitude of capital gains and jet planes that the one conceptualization of rich to you is some native american tribe. You have more in common with them or even the homeless than the rich.

https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/
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 No.395702

>>395698
You said I'm discussing Seminoles income being high because

>poor people sneer at middle class lifestyle

>they are just mad that others have more than them,

You are building a straw man that I am a poor perspn looking at what they earn and angry. When what I've done is correct a person when they didn't believe what they earn with data to their income then state that it is rich.
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 No.395707

>>395702
You are the one building strawman. I said >>395657 'If that is your definition of wealth then you are too poor'.

I am not even saying you are a poor person having class envy (though I do suspect it), I am saying you are a poor person who cannot simply cannot imagine or understand what real wealth that you think these people are it.

What you have done is tell people that those Native Americans get 120k a year, sure that's fair play. But your mistake is thinking and labeling it as rich.
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 No.395709

>>395707
>I am not saying it (though I do suspect it)

You've said it multiple times before then say it again now. All your post passive aggressive deviating from the topic.

The topic was that 120K+ a year + your income is rich. To deflect from this you decided to just say I'm poor for thinking that. In what place in the usa is consistently people earning around 150k a year per person on average not considered rich? In Florida it is for sure.

Tbh i wouldn't be surprised if you yourself are Seminole or have family ties to it from how you are treating it
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 No.395711

>>395709
>The topic was that 120K+ a year + your income is rich.
> In what place in the usa is consistently people earning around 150k a year per person on average not considered rich? In Florida it is for sure.

Which as I said multiple times, it is not considered rich. And that you lack the means and imagination to really meet and find the real rich people.

>Tbh i wouldn't be surprised if you yourself are Seminole or have family ties to it from how you are treating it

Now who is the one making assumptions about others? LOL I am not even American lmao
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 No.395712

>>395711
Triple the average income per
Person is absolutely rich
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 No.395713

>>395712
https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/

Then that speaks more about your life experiences than the actual data.
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 No.395716

>>395713
No it doesn't. You keep trying to imply if the person isn't a billionaire they are not rich and I'm poor for thinking so.

Making 3x the average salary is rich. On top of this is per family member. A 3 per household of mom dad and son is 400k + a year.

By any classification this is rich.
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 No.395720

File: 1627013997113.png ( 9.9 KB , 334x229 , 1586077559885.png )

>>395716
>On top of this is per family member. A 3 per household of mom dad and son is 400k + a year.
Whut? How does thinking in family units make this any better or worse?
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 No.395722

>>395045
>no ethnostates = genocide
I wonder who could be behind this post
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 No.395727

File: 1627014386380.jpg ( 320.89 KB , 1080x1072 , Pine Ridge FASD.jpg )

Reminder that the poorest county in the US (not counting colonies like Puerto Rico and American Samoa) is Oglala Lakota County, which is coterminous with the Pine Ridge reservation in South Dakota. The third poorest county is Todd County, coterminous with the Rosebud reservation in the same state. These reservations, and others like them, are among the most destitute and underdeveloped parts of the country. They suffer from malnutrition, addiction, and violence. Many people do not have running water. They also lack true sovereignty, meaning they are dependent on the goodwill of the United States (which is sorely lacking in that area). Pointing to a handful of tribes which have made bank on casinos distracts from this reality.
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 No.395737

File: 1627015079832.gif ( 48.52 KB , 220x220 , thinking.gif )

>97% of of the population at Pine Ridge Reservation live below federal poverty line.
>The unemployment rate vacillates from 85% to 95% on the Reservation.
>Death due to Heart Disease: Twice the national average.
>The infant mortality rate is the highest on this continent and is about 300% higher than the U.S. national average.
>Elderly die each winter from hypothermia (freezing).
>Recent reports point out that the median income on the Pine Ridge Reservation is approximately $2,600 to $3,500 per year.
>At least 60% of the homes are severely substandard, without water, electricity, adequate insulation, and sewage systems.
>Recent reports state the average life expectancy is 45 years old while others state that it is 48 years old for men and 52 years old for women. With either set of figures, that's the shortest life expectancy for any community in the Western Hemisphere outside Haiti, according to The Wall Street Journal.
http://www.4aihf.org/id40.html
Hm, I wonder why these people might distrust the American government and want to govern themselves? I guess they're all just "ethno-nationalists."
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 No.395756

>changing the person in charge, instead of the governing economic philosophy, will fix all problems!
>it's working so well for Lesotho and Swaziland!
>not an ethno-nationalist btw
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 No.395761

>>395737
This is why any communist who isn’t a Sakaist type of communist to me is a coward, just a colonial master in red. And no this isn’t some “red fascist” bullshit, we can have different have socialists, some better than others. I would never call another red a fascist but I would call him a colonial imperialist.
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 No.395783

>>395737
>>395761
Isn't this just an argument for a future socialist government to integrate such people into larger society where they can be provided the same amenities as everyone else and the same public services? If they still want to be together, they can just live together or near each other, different cultural groups do it all the time.
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 No.395789

>>395783
This is because nationality is important, and I don’t mean the way people think nationalism to be but rather a shared culture and language of a people. This isn’t some abstract issue but a material one based on real material shit. The reservations weren’t near enough a reparation.
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 No.395790

Most of the Native Americans and similar do not literally intend to do the "primitive tribal" stuff and return to tradition. Barely any of the so called actually existent "primitivists" like the Cambodia boi planned to reject modernity and industrial systems, and, far from the stereotype, folks such as Evo and Pedro only seek to develop the productive forces of their countries unmolested, not to regress. Even the company at Black Hammer said that they could envision a future where they develop their own vaccines, unrealistic at the moment that might be to say.
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 No.396438

>>395783
If the tribes want to integrate more closely into the US that should be their right, but there's a reason that every tribe pushes for more sovereignty instead of less sovereignty. Obviously if we established a communist utopia in the US then we wouldn't need separate tribal nations anymore, but until that happens, it makes sense that tribal members want more power over their own affairs.
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 No.396466

Why don't native americans embrace Juche?

You still need the Marxism to understand the laws of social development, but learn from the DPRK about their social philosophy and Songun policy.
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 No.396473

>>396466
Juche is a meme ideology, there is nothing leftist about it unless you consider the sakoku policy under the Japanese shogunate to be leftist as well. The DPRK unironically adopted its former colonial master's culture after abandoning communism.
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 No.396476

>>396473
I bet it looks the same in appearance, but the essence would indicate otherwise.
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 No.396613

>>396466
It's hard enough to get Natives to embrace vanilla Marxism or Marxism-Leninism, let alone an obscure variant that was created specifically for a country on the other side of the world. The main problems I see with drawing Natives to Marxism are (1) a lot of them are kind of spooked by anything that originated in Europe, so they see Marxism as a thing for white people, and (2) historical Marxist and even socialist movements haven't done much to reach out to Natives, probably of their small population and because they're concentrated in geographically isolated areas without too much industry or agriculture (it's hard to say "workers of the world, unite!" to people with a 90% unemployment rate). On the plus side, a lot of the more traditional Natives hold views which are fairly compatible with Marxism (most tribes held land in common before the US forced them to allot their land to individuals in the late 19th century).

>>396473
Nice propaganda. Juche is Marxism-Leninism adapted for the conditions in Korea; the idea that it's somehow anti-communist is made up.
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 No.396649

>>396613
I agree with you, and sympathize, but one thing about Juche, I dont think the DPRK actually views that. To them it's a social philosophy that can be adopted for any society that is struggling against imperialism/colonialism.
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 No.396714

>>395026
Uncontacted tribes should be left alone. There are a few in what's left of the Amazon, the Senitel islanders, I don't know of any others but if they are discovered they should be left alone too.

The rest of Indigenous globally are part of the capitalist system. They are either an underclass like the Sami in Finland and Aino in Japan, or survivors of Genocide like in the US/Canada, in the US they are divided into dirt poor on non-arable lands and living big on casino and government payments that keep them slaves to the casino or the state.

Returning land to the indigenous won't return a pre-capitalist mode of life. So no, #landback isn't really a communist slogan and even a cursory reading of Fanon would tell you that the reality of colonizer vs colonized is much more complex, and only communism and destroy that contradiction.


That said, the Bolsheviks honored (most) of the treaties of the old government, especially those with France, and treaties that protect Indigenous land should still be honored. Or actually honored for the first time since they are routinely broken in the US, in fact two days Enbridge had a major spill a t Mississippi headwaters that the media isn't covering, probably because it fucks over Injuns and the media doesn't give a shit about their water being poisoned, their delicious wild rice being poisoned, or their women being trafficked and kidnapped by the brutish "proletarian" pipe construction teams
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 No.396720

>>396613
The current constitution of DPRK doesn't mention Marxism-Leninism, socialism, or proletarian dictatorship/democracy, so pretending that it isn't a regressive reaction isn't doing you any favors. Of course, the reactions are the fault of US embargos, but it can hardly be considered an AES state at this point, other than a funhouse-mirror version of AES.
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 No.396802

File: 1627071146267.pdf ( 180.24 KB , 212x300 , Peoples_Republic_of_Korea_….pdf )

>>396720
Quit fucking lying.
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 No.396841

As far as USA goes, the Southwest was heavily Native (and Mexican) since centuries ago, before USA even existed, and now it's only becoming more Native as more immigrants and refugees come from Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Central America in general etc. (regions where the proles and peasants are heavily Native, and also regions that have been subject to US-backed capitalist coups, dictatorships, civil wars, genocides, as well as the more extreme tropical storms as the result of global warming, which is fueled especially by the global capitalist war-making/arms industry headed by the Pentagon). So the re-indigenization of USA (in particular its Southwest region) is kind of just a historical process that's happening
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 No.396855

>>396841 (me)
>>396843 (me)
Should not forget to mention the effect of the drug wars (maybe included under civil wars), the deadly Covid pandemic and the general poverty from capitalist austerity/privatization that also fuels this process.
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 No.396863

>>396841 (me)
>As far as USA goes, the Southwest was heavily Native (and Mexican) since centuries ago, before USA even existed
Of course, the entire USA used to be Native land, not just the Southwest. I wasn't implying that it wasn't, but rather just emphasizing that the Southwest is the region of USA where this re-indigenization process I'm describing is most visibly happening. And that's because, to spell out the obvious, the Southwest region of the USA shares a long border with Mexico, the northern-most country of that Central America land corridor (stretching to the Panama Canal and South America) that just happens to be a heavily Native populated region of the American continent.
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 No.396869

>>

 No.397037

>>395026
No they should continue to be poor and have dirty water and no opportunities, anything else would be idpol.
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 No.397111

File: 1627080665876.pdf ( 61.49 MB , 212x300 , The Red Nation - The Red D….pdf )

Thoughts on the Red Nation? Their Red Deal has gotten a lot of buzz, including an endorsement from the DSA, despite being a nominally Marxist (and perhaps Leninist, judging by their use of the hammer-and-sickle and their citing of State and Revolution) org.
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 No.397469

>>397111
I just skimmed it. It looks pretty good and manages to hit the main demands of indigenous peoples as well as socialist demands, though I don't think it actually used the word "communism." There was some kind of cringey radlib language like "queer bodies," but overall it's nice.
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 No.397533

What kind of rights are you talking about? The way I see it the socialist project has always been concerned with giving all working people autonomy over their own labor and consequently their own lives, and this holds true for all people including native people. So if this is what you mean by native rights then I'm absolutely for those rights.
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 No.397630

>>396720
lol the literal title of the constitution mentions socialism
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 No.397657

File: 1627095049138-0.jpeg ( 304.86 KB , 1993x1381 , russia republics.jpeg )

File: 1627095049138-1.png ( 351.42 KB , 2677x2183 , Autonomous_rule_divisions_….png )

Give them ASSRs/autonomous regions like the Soviets and Chinese did for their minorities
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 No.397679

>>396473
>unironically adopted its former colonial master's culture
horseshoe theory nonsense based on one book which is full of shit
https://www.bookforum.com/print/1805/-8881
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 No.398145

As Zapata said: "La tierra es de quien la trabaja”
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 No.398150

File: 1627129777462.jpg ( 198.44 KB , 1400x933 , Hebron-settlers.jpg )

>>398145
*works your land*
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 No.398257

>>395026
Indigenous rights only matter within the capitalistic system
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 No.398274

>>398150
surely someone was working said land before these clowns
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 No.398277

The concept of land ownership is anti-materialist, so, no.
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 No.399052

File: 1627163672230.png ( 197.89 KB , 840x564 , apu thinking.png )

>>398277
>a nation having territory over which it exerts sovereignty is anti-materialist
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 No.399065

Let them live with us. I don't see the need for "protected land"
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 No.399563

>>395109
colonist historylet logged in
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 No.399619

Worker rights are "indigenous peoples" rights.

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