/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>400221
I'd argue a lot of his attitudes come from the fact that he grew up in the Rust Belt and internalized those values. He assumes that a socialist America would look like the white picket fence, just under a red flag. Mom and dad happily married working in unionized workplaces where they're building up the socialist nation while their 4-7 kids (gotta get those birthrates up and make abortion much harder to obtain) go to top tier schools where they learn labor history and sing odes to the old CPUSA.

The thing about Caleb is that while many of his criticisms about the "synthetic left" are correct, he often times critiques them from the right, not from the "genuine" left as he claims. For instance, he says culture wars don't mean anything and the "genuine left" should steer clear of anything culture-related as not to upset social conservatives. Yet, if we look at how, say, LGBTQIA+ individuals, Muslims, Jews, and most lumpenproletariat are oppressed, it's not necessarily because bosses extracting their surplus value but due to *cultural* stigmas. If we ignore the oppressive results of social conservatism, we ignore some very real forms of oppression which can't be remedied by better infrastructure or state control of industry.

And let's face it: most ideology is reproduced outside the workplace. It might do Caleb a bit of good to read Althusser on the ideological state apparatus stuff.

With that said, one of the biggest things were I do agree with Caleb is him pointing out how the modern left has become obsessed with finding the "perfect" revolutionary subject, which in turn causes them to prioritize the lumpenproles over real proles. They would rather organize girls with Only Fans than the undocumented immigrants picking our corn and tomatoes, on the basis that whores are more "pure" as they are allegedly more outside the system. I just wish Caleb articulated this better rather than throwing around terns like "the synthetic left is a death cult" or "the synthetic left is brainwashed by the CIA to hate working people".

>>400240
Jews are not oppressed

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/11/how-income-varies-among-u-s-religious-groups/

>>400243
In many parts of the US Jews still aren't considered "white".

My boyfriend is Jewish and when we were driving through Kentucky he was almost attacked by two antisemites when we stopped for gas.

>>400246
People get attacked everyday everywhere. Part of life.

>>400248
How many of them are attacked for being Jewish?

Again, class isn't the end-all-be-all when it comes to oppression. Things like cultural stigmas matter. Maupin won't address this because he knows it can't be solved with more steel mills.

>>400192
Those indigenous vigilantes in Canada are right. Burn the motherfucking churches.

>>400240
>
yes
>
few lefties have figured out how to differentiate the meaningless, endless hamster wheel style of culture war from the ideology with lasting impact
>And let's face it: most ideology is reproduced outside the workplace. It might do Caleb a bit of good to read Althusser on the ideological state apparatus stuff.
good luck, he's literally 'muh cultural marxism' on theorists after Lenin, conspiracy brained because reading 2 hard
>"the synthetic left is a death cult" or "the synthetic left is brainwashed by the CIA to hate working people".
utterly embarrassing

>>400259
I've also seen Caleb deliberately misrepresent authors he claims to have read. He said Adorno was behind deconstruction. The grad student in me wanted to slam my head against a brick wall, especially since Adorno was trying to revive object-oriented ontology in his later years (which is entirely against deconstruction).

>>400263
i didn't know OOO was that old. yeah iirc on a stream he once said that Adorno was 'synthetic left' (or an op maybe??) because Adorno quoted Wilhelm Reich in a book regarding psychoanalysis, and Reich was a crackpot, therefore Adorno cancelled lol. I stopped paying attention to him then

>>400273
I doubt Caleb could understand Adorno. It bothers me greatly how eager he is to poison the well - "this academic wrote for a publication that took money from the CIA, therefore everything they've ever written is worthless and only helps the ruling class." What kind of mentality is that?

>>400279
Yeah he's treating the writing like it's impenetrable voodoo magic, like it's the NED or CIA and you have to assume evil workings behind the scenes. But it's just texts lol, it's all right there, you can read it yourself and form an argument against it, and instead he's like 'Althusser killed his wife, so the Devil has tainted his work'

>>400273
>>400279
One other thing, which I said in another thread: I feel like Caleb slut shames a hell of a lot without blatantly slut-shaming. He's constantly equating sex with degeneracy and birth control with eugenics, like instead of shaming women who have lots of sex for being "sluts" he shames them for being "Malthusians" by being on the pill or something. He's also said on livestreams multiple times he thinks abortion access should be much more restrictive and that doctors should be allowed to deny women abortion services (can't see how that would go wrong in a "socialism" where everyone is compelled to increase the birthrate, would it?).

Again, these are right-wing talking points dressed up in leftist language, and a testament to how ignorant Caleb is when it comes to cultural issues.

>>400284
It's so bloody frustrating to deal with those people. It gets to a point where it becomes an excuse for anti-intellectualism. "I won't read Author X because [insert problematic thing here]." Very childish.

>>400240
Caleb is a retard and so are you.
One should apply materialist analysis to culture

scromiting at this

>>400240
>*cultural* stigmas. If we ignore the oppressive results of social conservatism,
Cultural stigmas have a materialist explanation. Which you (liberal) and maupin (social conservative) don't consider when making your analysis. Both

>>400291
>One should apply materialist analysis to culture
Which Caleb doesn't do…

>>400295
My analysis isn't liberal. We can agree cultural attitudes stem from real material things, however you can't always reduce this to economic development. Caleb is naive if he assumes producing more stuff will naturally drive people's prejudices away. Just because said prejudices may have grown out of shitty economic conditions doesn't mean they'll immediately disappear when economic conditions approve.

>>400240
>Mom and dad happily married working in unionized workplaces where they're building up the socialist nation
nothing wrong with that
>he says culture wars don't mean anything and the "genuine left" should steer clear of anything culture-related
That is good advice, you have to build an inclusive economic base that creates wealth for everybody before you can fix social issues. An inclusive economic system will generate an inclusive cultural sphere.

The Caleb bashing seems to go a little overboard in this thread.

>>400303
>An inclusive economic system will generate an inclusive cultural sphere.
Your economic space won't be inclusive if you're not addressing the very real issues which queers, Muslims, etc. face that go beyond the realm of economics.

Ask how many queer comrades you know would willingly go and organize workers in "middle America" when there's a very good chance those queer comrades would be victims of homophobia.

>>400298
Yeah that's why he's a retard.
>>400300
>you can't always reduce this to economic development
And you can't reduce materialism to a scale of development which is exactly what caleb the cuck does and liberal do too.
Obviously caleb is a retard, but the solution to stigmas is in the mode of production not.

>>400315
>but the solution to stigmas is in the mode of production not.
You do realize many of the cultural stigmas we have now as they pertain to sexuality, religion, and so on PRE-DATE capitalism, right?

>>400308
>face that go beyond the realm of economics.
But the discrimination doesn't actually go beyond the realm of economics, liberal

>>400316
Yeah, and you know that some were abolished or created by capitalism?
You know that capitalism has some contradictions that come from pre capitalism?

>>400319
My analysis isn't liberal.

How many bourgeois Muslims face Islamophobia on the daily?

How many middle-class queers fear for their lives every day?

This isn't due to relations in the factory nor can it be solved by increasing industrial output like Maupin wants you to believe. I would go so far as to say Caleb's understanding of Marxism is fundamentally mechanical, not dialectical, almost in a Feuerbachian sense. He fails to realize we influence the machines just as much as the machines influence us.

>>400321
Of course. My point is, changing the mode of production isn't enough to challenge social stigmas. Racism still flourished in the USSR, for instance (just as a Muslim in the Caucus Mountains).

>>400324
>My analysis isn't liberal
<How many bourgeois Muslims face Islamophobia on the daily?
I was going to answer you seriously but between this and muh ussr racism you should go fuck yourself.
Like really you are a liberal piece of shit.

>>400308
>Your economic space won't be inclusive if you're not addressing the very real issues
capitalism has an exclusionary economic system, ( it's not running full employment), that will create reactionary exclusionary culture. Both the dominant liberal and dominant conservative social values are reactionary culture, they only differ about who is to be excluded.

The minimum viable basis for improving anything is creating a economy with full employment, and a level of wealth equality where nobody is desperate. If you do not put this first you are a reactionary.

Your appeal to identity, is in fact just saying don't sacrifice group A, sacrifice group B instead. This isn't just morally reprehensible, it's also not going to work. If you talk about social exclusion and you don't talk about that Neo-liberal policy is actively targeting a 6% unemployment rate, which is a 6% social exclusion rate, you are a fraud. If you are sincere about creating the conditions for social inclusion your top priority is to have full employment with wages that allow a live without precarity.

You will never have a good culture if people are worried about their livelyhood. You have to build the foundation of a house before you can put the roof ontop.

>>400240
>Jews […] are oppressed

Are you being serious?

>>400192
>they do not accept the idea that they the working people are merely evil privileged Eurosettlers who deserve to be poorer as retribution for historical and ongoing injustices.
So, what does Maupin plan about doing with the indigenous?

Why should the indigenous accept Bantustans while 99% of their historical sacred territories are illegally occupied and exploited by settlers?

>>359254
hbomb is an insufferably smug, obnoxiously moralistic, and confidently wrong liberal.
I hated him before I was left-wing and I especially hate him now that I'm much further to the left than he is.

breadtube is just radlib tho

>>400326
Pointing out there's more oppressions than class isn't liberal. If you can't see the system in a holistic manner don't even bother calling yourself a leftist.

>>400353
>The minimum viable basis for improving anything is creating a economy with full employment, and a level of wealth equality where nobody is desperate. If you do not put this first you are a reactionary.
The labor movement failed because of racism. Why do you think that was?

>>400375
Why are you denying this? Antisemitism is still very prevalent in the West. Look at France for example. There are parts of the US were even European Jews aren't seen as "white".

>>400246
fake story
t. i lived in kentucky for 14 years

>>401989
Why are you so quick to claim it's fake?

>>402005
There are only fourteen Kentuckians and they're all married cousins

>>402005
because it didn't happen. if ur bf did get harassed in kentucky it wasn't because they knew he was a jew, it was because they recognized he's gay

>>400249
Social oppression can also be used to bolster the reserve army of labor by driving people out of the workforce. There's a capitalist dynamic behind it, but the "form" it takes in the superstructure is racism which then reinforces the base. Just a thought.

>>402022
Correct, but again the solution isn't more industrial output.

>>401989
I was accosted by some guys yelling anti-Semitic slurs once in Texas and I'm not even Jewish. It was weird. I was just confused.

>>401980
Pretty much. If there's racism, then we can't have socialism, because you have to unite people across racial lines to have socialism. So, the existence of racism is an obstacle and must be crushed. Until it is, I think we'll continue to live in a dystopic capitalist society. If western "leftists" cannot bother to fight racism, then they stand no chance against capital.

>>402028
Ok then it's safe to say your interaction with those men is proof of people shouting random slurs at random people and proof AGAINST the notion that Jews are singled out in any significant way for abuse in the West.
>>401980
>Antisemitism is still very prevalent in the West. Look at France for example.
No it isn't. Holocaust denial conspiracies are literally a crime in France and the most popular right wing party defends the right of the Jews to be in France. LePen disowned the anti semitic statements of her own father. I say none of this as a defense of France or the Front National, but I say it so that false criticisms of neither are allowed to take root on this board.

>>402044
>Holocaust denial conspiracies are literally a crime in France and the most popular right wing party defends the right of the Jews to be in France.
NTA, but that isn't the same thing. If anything, Zionists are some of the most antisemitic people alive.

>>402052
Non sequitur. Greentext where I mentioned Zionism or the state of Israel in the post you replied to.

>>402044
I think they confused me for being Jewish. I look kinda nerdy. Maybe that's why. But I doubt that Jews are particularly oppressed in the United States overall.

Either way, though, I doubt you're going to find unity with hardcore racists like you see on /pol/ who think blacks are going to eat their children or whatever. That's not just rational. It's like lunatic, Ku Klux Klan ideology. Total waste of time.

>>402060
/pol/ is full of degenerates that very few decent people would have anything to do with in real life. I have no interest appealing to them or the mentally ill boomers that swallow up the narratives they create. I'm only saying that Jews do not face any special abuse in the united states of america. If you want my opinion on Maupin's criticism of breadtube, I think it's a facile critique but nonetheless it is almost surely true ur avg left wing media figure has a low opinion of christianity. Now having said that Maupin's critique on that ground is facile I will also add that I believe he's coming from the right place. It is foolish to alienate people simply because they are religious. Saying that communists should not actively antagonize religious people is not the same as saying we should appeal to neo nazi teens who socialize primarily online.

>>401980
>Pointing out there's more oppressions than class isn't liberal
It is if you don't understand that other kinds of oppresions have their origin in class.

>>400293
Can someone explain to me how Big Joel is associated with the left in any way? Has he ever said anything even remotely leftist?

>>400293
Based

Caleb Maupin is retarded

>>359201
post of the year