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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1625288111028.jpg ( 25.71 KB , 600x582 , 130719130758.jpg )

 No.353015[Last 50 Posts]

Nazis literally kept records of fucking everything that went on in those camps, it was already documented that nazis had deliberately made propaganda films of those camps portraying them as resorts for jews to hide what was actually going on in their, starvation and rampant illness was one of the leading causes of death next to gas chambers in those camps especially late in the war when the nazis were running low on funds. Yes 6 million did fucking die in their along with another 9 million non jews comprising of soviet and north western european prisoners and gypsies, you have to be a complete spergeloard schizo to miss this
>>

 No.353019

Why don't you go ask /Pol/ where you'll get evidence as to why instead of post here where people will just circle jerk about it?

Btw the numbers were clearly greatly exaggerated of deaths
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 No.353021

>>353015
because they didn't do it but also they want to do it

it's the same nazi paradox where they think the strongest deserves everything but still seethe at the soviets for winning
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 No.353023

File: 1625288396386.png ( 5.46 KB , 285x177 , download (1).png )

>>353019
>over exaggerated deaths
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 No.353025

Because of the dao, of course the most documented genocide in human history will have hundreds of deniers
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 No.353029

>>353025
What about the armenian and rwandian genocide, or what happened in Bengal and congo?
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 No.353032

>>353019
Why don't you go ask /pol/ where you'll get circlejerk """""""evidence""""""
FTFY wheraboo

Now kill yourself
>>

 No.353034

>>353023
>line go down so the holohoax was real
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 No.353035

>>353029
what are you what abouting me about?
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 No.353038

Love to argue with people on my communist imageboard about whether the mechanized Nazi death squads that rolled into the Soviet Union executing villages full of people and shipping the others off to death camps actually happened.
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 No.353039

>>353019
the evidence for the holocaust is overwhelming
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 No.353040

>>353023
>Source:
>American Jewish Year Book.
Clearly no reason for bias. So what is the Year Book basing it off of? They have a directory of every Jew in the world?
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 No.353041

>>353039
>the evidence for the holocaust is overwhelming
Your argument is underwhelming.
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 No.353042

File: 1625288971313-0.jpeg ( 8.11 KB , 248x203 , download.jpeg )

File: 1625288971313-2.jpg ( 168.99 KB , 1200x900 , holocaust-concentration-ca….jpg )

>>353034
>the holohoax was real
Yes
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 No.353044

File: 1625289002244.png ( 254.93 KB , 720x1057 , 1618455500213.png )

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 No.353046

>>353039
we know something happened, but we're not sure what
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 No.353048

the real redpill about the Holocaust is that a genocide on that scale would likely not be cared about as much as it is if it was isolated to countries colonized by the imperial powers. Look how long it took for the Germans to really acknowledge any of their genocides in Africa and compare it to how guilt over the Holocaust has paradoxically become a thing of national pride for them. I think having a large enough community to lobby to keep its memory alive, whether out of genuine care or cynical reasons, (like what Finkelstein talks about) helps too. For example im Assyrian, I had family members die thanks to turk roaches, and the massacres of us and the Greeks typically get forgotten or barely mentioned in mainstream discussion about the genocide. Is it because there is a conspiracy to obscure this info? No, it mainly comes down to the fact that there are many more Armenians both at home and in the diaspora, and they have a much more powerful lobby.
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 No.353049

File: 1625289179042-0.jpg ( 53.59 KB , 620x446 , holocaust-51400546.jpg )

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File: 1625289179042-2.jpeg ( 7.74 KB , 244x206 , images.jpeg )

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 No.353050

>>353040
Probably. Jews historically have kept very good records of their families and lineages because that kind of stuff is important to them, which is difficult to understand for some people whose departed Europe for the Americas and severed all their ties to Old World.
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 No.353052

Ask yourself this. If the holodomor was a hoax? Then the Holocaust was one too. Both false events propped up by the ruling elite.
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 No.353055

>>353019
Based. Finally someone on this board with some sense. For a board that calls itself "leftist" and not "liberal" they are pretty much undistinguishable from SJWs and all leftoids.
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 No.353057

File: 1625289588587-0.jpg ( 122.83 KB , 628x398 , boy-concrete-pile.jpg )

File: 1625289588587-1.jpeg ( 9.76 KB , 193x261 , download (1).jpeg )

>>353052
No dude the holodomor also happened and was a deliberate attempt by stalin to get rid of what he viewed as kulaks.
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 No.353060

>>353052
My grandfather was in a U.S. Army unit that came across one of those Nazi camps. It really happened. You're out to lunch, Jack.
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 No.353066

>>353052
Yeah except there's no evidence whatsoever for a Holodomor a fuckton of evidence for the Holocaust
>>353057
You glow
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 No.353067

>>353015
>Why do people still deny Holocaust?
>Why do people still deny Holodomor?
>Why do people still deny Armenian genocide
>Why do people still deny Uighur genocide?
>Why do people still deny 90s Yugo genocides?
Because it makes their team look bad. Duh.
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 No.353068

>>353055
The Nazis were fags who got their teeth kicked in by communists. But I'm optimistic, because if they ever got their act together again, I'm confident the same thing will happen.
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 No.353074

File: 1625289875616.jpg ( 414.73 KB , 1278x1012 , holocoaster.jpg )

>>353052
>>353067
Ok:
>Holocaust
Real
>Holodomor
Real
>Holocoaster
???
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 No.353075

File: 1625289883452-0.jpg ( 228.07 KB , 1200x1278 , no-nb_blds_01867-beskåret-….jpg )

File: 1625289883452-1.jpg ( 30.82 KB , 220x287 , 220px-Holodomor-Chicago.jpg )

File: 1625289883452-2.jpg ( 20.34 KB , 225x225 , Children Hungry.jpg )

File: 1625289883452-3.jpeg ( 8.2 KB , 182x276 , download (2).jpeg )

>>353066
You're retarded
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 No.353080

File: 1625290005552.jpg ( 137.57 KB , 800x445 , 6 million.jpg )

>>353075
There goes the six million again. Why do people only genocide in 6s? Satan?
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 No.353082

>>353060
Yeah people die in war, that's no surprise to anyone.
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 No.353083

>>353039
It no doubt happened. There is even an audio recording of Himmler talking about it to his subordinates.

What doesnt have "overwhelming evidence" is the 6M number. Its actually a very wild guess because nazis burnt all documentation (the little there was) and the chaos of tens of millions of refugees moving over europe makes these calculations borderline impossible.
Respected historians made estimations from 1.5M to 10M. We simply dont know.
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 No.353087

>>353057
>>353075
"Holodomor" refers to the idea that the 1932 Soviet famine was a genocide of specifically ethnic Ukrainians.
Kulaks are not an ethnicity, they were a class and their actions of burning crops and destroying livestock were one of the causes of the famine.
There is no evidence that the 1932 Soviet famine was an intentional planned genocide and even anti-communists like Robert Conquest and Solzhenitsyn admitted this.
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 No.353088

>>353075
You're the one who's retarded. The Holodomor hoax refers to how Ukraine fascists claim it was a premeditated genocide against Ukraine. It's not denying that the famine happened. Also that newspaper is literally a known falsification by a rich businessman who was friends with the nazis
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 No.353089

File: 1625290320701-0.jpg ( 505.32 KB , 1000x785 , 86061-1000x785.jpg )

File: 1625290320701-1.jpg ( 11.06 MB , 5252x3300 , 7_-FO-371-34550-Treblinka.jpg )

File: 1625290320701-2.jpg ( 83.95 KB , 1000x270 , holocaust -remembrance.jpg )

>>353083
Theres still remnants
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 No.353091

>>353088
>>353087
>You're the one who's retarded. The Holodomor hoax refers to how Ukraine fascists claim it was a premeditated genocide against Ukraine. It's not denying that the famine happened. Also that newspaper is literally a known falsification by a rich businessman who was friends with the nazis
How come he coincidentally picked the 6 million number? Also your argument about disease/famine is the same used by The Nazi apologists about The Jewish deaths.
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 No.353095

File: 1625290585637.png ( 15.65 KB , 250x204 , wat.png )

>>353088
>>353087
LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR

GENOCIDE HAS EXISTED FOR ALL OF MODERN HUMAN HISTORY

MORE PEOPLE HAVE DIED FROM GENOCIDE WITHIN THE PAST 200 YEARS THAN EVERYONE THAT HAS DIED TO EVERY WAR IN HUMAN HISTORY, WHEN SHIT LIKE THIS HAPPENS DENYING IT EXISTS FEEDS INTO THE MENTALITY THAT LEADS TO IT HAPPENING AGAIN
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 No.353098

>>353088
And the Holocaust was a conspiracy made by the western powers and communists to undermine the only nation that was actually changing things for the better.
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 No.353099

some good bait in this thread lol. wonder if op's samefagging though
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 No.353100

>>353083
>What doesnt have "overwhelming evidence" is the 6M number.
The Soviet historians arrived at virtually the same number independently from bourgeois historians, and they really didn't have any incentives to agree with bourgeois narratives about history.
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 No.353101

>>353095
Obviously must be your first day here.
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 No.353103

File: 1625290720107.jpg ( 136.22 KB , 383x500 , 0679089-World-War-II-Germa….jpg )

>>353082
>Yeah people die in war, that's no surprise to anyone.
I didn't tell the rest of the story. They gathered up the German villagers in the surrounding towns and forced marched them through the camp at gunpoint and made them clean up the mess.
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 No.353108

File: 1625290826252.jpg ( 548.9 KB , 1600x812 , baker_1-092916.jpg )

>>353100
>The Soviet historians arrived at virtually the same number independently from bourgeois historians, and they really didn't have any incentives to agree with bourgeois narratives about history.
>Justification for executing all The Nazi leadership and justifying permanent occupation of Germany in cooperation with The Americans and British
<No incentive
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 No.353116

>>353100
>Communists hate conservative values so they side with the western nations to essentially slander the Reich
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 No.353118

>>353108
Based.
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 No.353120

>>353116
I think they do worse to the Reich than slander it there chief
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 No.353125

>>353091
>How come he coincidentally picked the 6 million number?
I don't know
>Also your argument about disease/famine is the same used by The Nazi apologists about The Jewish deaths.
Oh so there wasn't a famine?
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 No.353130

File: 1625291183604.jpg ( 154.29 KB , 920x960 , winky.jpg )

>History is written by the victors
<Except for this time. One set of guys were The Fellowship of The Ring and the other guys were literally Satan
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 No.353139

>>353130
>Nazis lost therefore they were justified and heckin good boys who did nothing wrong
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 No.353145

>>353139

This is exactly what is said here about Stalin
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 No.353149

File: 1625291746967.png ( 629.38 KB , 824x744 , Are you seriously arguing ….png )

>>353130
Which is exactly how we know the Confederacy were the good guys all along! They were based and dialectical and simply fighting for the rights of the white proletariat, but because the DAMN YANKEES beat them we never got to hear there side of the story!
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 No.353154

>>353130
>he doesnt know that American/Western perceptions of the Eastern Front were largely shaped by former Nazis
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 No.353162

>>353091
>>353095
Nazi apologists are literally the same people who started this "Holodomor genocide" idea.
Are you also going to believe their claims that there is currently a "white genocide"?
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 No.353165

File: 1625292488135.jpg ( 2.66 MB , 2200x2835 , Abraham_Lincoln_O-77_matte….jpg )

>>353139
Not at all. Grain of salt for The Western version of events and the whitewashing of their own crimes.

>>353149
The Union were hecking good boys? Abraham was a racist himself. If anything you could say he just wanted the negroes gone out of the country, not that he cared about their freedom.

>I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality … I will add to this that I have never seen, to my knowledge, a man, woman, or child who was in favor of producing a perfect equality, social and political, between negroes and white men.


>My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union.
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 No.353167

>>353162
And it was the “””bourgeoise””” and the Slavs of Russia who made up the holocaust to undermine the German rebirth. The whole world was turning against Germany when Germany was saving all of Europe of the fate of the communist degenerates and the ruling class of the west.(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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 No.353168

>>353108
>No incentive
Yes after WW2 the cold war began and intellectuals having the same opinions on things as the other side was always slightly suspicious.
>>353116
Conservatives hate the third Reich, they think Hitler was only justified uniting the "Germanic peoples" with war and conquest, like invading Austria and such. This is speculation but they probably think that Hitler was beyond stupid for provoking the Soviets.
>>353145
>This is exactly what is said here about Stalin
Bullshit, Stalin won most of the time.
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 No.353181

>>353130
In this case we have the history the losers themselves wrote. For example Hitler said explicitly he wanted to colonize the slavs
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 No.353227

>>

 No.353234

>>353227
>I don’t have an argument so I’ll say bait
Lmao
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 No.353239

File: 1625295766196-0.jpg ( 2.77 MB , 2433x3733 , holocaust.jpg )

File: 1625295766196-1.png ( 3.67 MB , 3018x8180 , greatest story never told.png )

>>353019
>>353074
try reading books
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 No.353252

>>353015
>starvation and rampant illness was one of the leading causes of death
As they were for non-interned people, soldiers, nurses, doctors, literally everyone. A virus was the single biggest killer in WW1, not the actual war itself. I don't think deniers discredit the idea that people died, it's more of a backlash against the numerous behaviors exhibited by the people selling Holocaust as a cult-like religion. The USA didn't officially recognize the Armenian Genocide until THIS YEAR. And that event predates the Holocaust by 30 years. Part of the reason the US took so long in recognizing the Armenian Genocide as a genocide, is because the Israeli lobby didn't want it recognized. How heartless and hypocritical can you be to expect respect for the Holocaust, while denying others to even be recognized? Boggles the brain, and that's why people lash out.
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 No.353260

>>353067
>Holodomor
wait wasn't just made up for anti communist propaganda
>Uighur genocide
isn't that like the weapons of mass destruction thing where they manufacture consent for war

why doesn't your list include the destruction of the Palestinians and Yemenis, does you make you teem look bad ?
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 No.353267

>>353067
The Holodomor narrative is basically a hoax, in terms of wrapping all the different incidents under one umbrella, it was a multitude of occurences.
If "Holocaust denial" just amounted to saying "the Holocaust as an overarching narrative is a hoax because all the different camps were unique events occurring at different times for different particular reasons" you would have some sort of a point
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 No.353269

>>

 No.353270

>>353260
The US govt has denied the genocide in China for as long as it could. MSM are nothing but talk bots for the Pentagon, and they were largle silent about the Uighar camps until the past year. The covid pandemic motivated everyone in the govt and academia to finally look into the current state of China, and stop buying the porkies larps about Russia being #1 boogiemans threat. They just wanted Russia's oil off the market.
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 No.353273

>>353067
>Why do people still deny Armenian genocide
Because it didn't happen. İt's a lie of western-imperialists for attacking Turkey
Ottomans didn't try to kill Armenians, it was just relocation. What had happen was just ethnic-clashing
Also Kurds killed Armenians as Turks btw
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 No.353274

>>353267
Just for snits and giggles, the Holocaust fans say most of the 6 million deaths didn't occur in the camps. They blame most deaths on the Einzatsgruppen SS, which they say were carried out in villages throughout conquered territory. The story seems to change depending upon who's telling it.
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 No.353283

>>353273
>just relocation
Gee, where have we heard that before???
>We didn't exterminate Jews, we relocated them- Nuremberg trials
>We didn't exterminate Palestinians, we just relocated them- Israeli govt
> We're not exterminating Uyghurs, we're just relocating them-CPC
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 No.353284

File: 1625299394665.jpg ( 141.69 KB , 720x960 , cable sallat of nonsense.jpg )

>>353270
Do you live in a parallel dimension ? The US is the one that pushes this story the most, if you try to find anything out about the alleged genocide, you only find sources that aren't legitimate, like something the Falun Gong cult has said. Do you know what you can find, loads of governments that are majority Muslim siding with China. You haven't even established any credibility for your claims. It looks much more like manufacturing consent for war with China.
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 No.353303

>>353284
In the adult world, it's entirely plausible that the USA and China are both evil empires. That's why I'm probably not your ideal debate buddy, because I don't trust either government. China is not communist, and the USA isn't a democracy. They're both proto-fascist oligarchies.
Now-
1. The US government has shielded China from scrutiny. Do you live here? The American intel community spent 2 years disseminating propaganda that said Trump was starting a trade war, and it was going to bankrupt the USA. That's what they cared about, keeping the shekels pouring in for porky, NOT the plight of the Uyghurs. The US govts interest in the Uyghur situation can be traced back to nearly exactly a year ago, with the start of the pandemic.
2. >if you try to find anything out about the alleged genocide, you only find sources that aren't legitimate
Well that really depends on how narrow your criteria is for what's a 'legitimate source'. You can find independent human rights academics as east Asia academics stretching back for years who've tried to warn the world to no avail.
3. > the Muslim world doesn't give a shit
No, and they largely don't give a shit about the Palestinians either. ISIS was right next door to Israel for the better part of a decade, and never bothered them, & Israel supported ISIS's cause in Syria. It's a very fractured, dysfunctional situation, which is exactly what the USA wants in the Muslim world.
4.>You haven't even established any credibility for your claims. It looks much more like manufacturing consent for war with China.
Which claims would you like me to substantiate for you? War with China would be catastrophic for all parties involved, and would only serve the interests of the rich elites of both countries.
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 No.353309

Same reason British capitalists deny the starvation of millions of Indians under their colonial rule.
The holocaust was really the ultimate and logical endpoint of capitalism if it is not ended.
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 No.353316

>>353057
>kids on a pile of rocks and a random city girl are proofs
Glowing real hard there bro.
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 No.353332

>>353274
I think it was around 2 million killed by Einsatzgruppen, that's not a majority but it is quite a lot. It was in fact a series of different contributing events to the overall Holocaust but there was much more of a deliberate and top-down plan to carry this out than the Holodomor which on the other hand would have been preferably avoided.
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 No.353335

>>353303
>The US govts interest in the Uyghur situation can be traced back to nearly exactly a year ago, with the start of the pandemic.
Not true at all why are you talking out your ass? Do you not remember the Hong Kong thing? Every glowie ever was pushing on that. They didn't suddenly start ramping up aggression against China last year, this is literally bullshit
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 No.353337

>>353274
>Just for snits and giggles, the Holocaust fans say most of the 6 million deaths didn't occur in the camps. They blame most deaths on the Einzatsgruppen SS, which they say were carried out in villages throughout conquered territory. The story seems to change depending upon who's telling it.
No, even the official holocaust calculation makes it clear that the majority weren't killed in the camps, and most Jews were just executed by the Nazis on their way through Eastern Europe by rather banal methods, like execution by shooting or abandonment after seizing and deprivation of supplies and housing (which has the affect one would expect). And because the Nazis were very clear on their position regarding Jews, purposeful negligence very much counts.
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 No.353338

>>353165
>The Union were hecking good boys? Abraham was a racist himself. If anything you could say he just wanted the negroes gone out of the country, not that he cared about their freedom.
Anon, the union wasn't the "good boys" because of their personal moral propensities. They were the "good boys" because they acted as legitimate progressive force in the United States and did away with the antiquated system of plantation slavery to inevitably replace it with industrialized capitalism proper.
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 No.353342

>>353337
>
the official holocaust calculation
Please point me in the direction of this 'official' calculation. What makes it official? Was it produced by a government? Are there in fact multiple versions that explain the death toll (6 million) differently? When was the figure of 6 million decided upon; was it after the 'official' calculation took place, or prior?
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 No.353345

>>353335
>Not true at all why are you talking out your ass?
It is true. There wasn't government sanctioned interest on a national level for the Uyghur situation until the pandemic.

>Do you not remember the Hong Kong thing?

Are there Uyghurs in Hong Kong? Stay on topic.

>They didn't suddenly start ramping up aggression against China last year, this is literally bullshit

It's nor bullshit. China has been infiltrating America's national security for 30 years, and were heavily featured as being involved in the Clinton Administration. The bribery, thievery, and manipulation has gone on to a great extent, regardless of the wavering pressure put on China the last few decades. The interest in Uyghur genocide was a dead topic in America, until last year.
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 No.353348

>>353019
>Why don’t you ask deranged antisemites?
Go back
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 No.353349

>>353348
Is now a good time to remember that the Soviet Union voted in favor of United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3379, which passed 72 to 35, and determined that Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination?
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 No.353353

>>353303
>In the adult world
we don't just default to a middle ground fallacy.
> it's entirely plausible that the USA and China are both evil empires.
I don't see an equivalence here, where are the overthrown governments, the failed states, the devastated war-zones ? China hasn't caused any of this, and it's not just the external thing, Internally china has a decided effort to build up the structure that support a advanced society, in the US these structures are left to decay.
>You can find independent human rights academics as east Asia academics stretching back for years who've tried to warn the world to no avail.
Fine give a link, just don't give me one where liberals confuse a theocracy with human rights. Communists always have ruthlessly destroyed reactionary theocratic power, that's something the liberals use to do too, but for some reason many liberals have gone backwards on secularism and are now finding "cultural value" in terrorizing people with fear and superstition. Don't send me something like that.
>War with China would be catastrophic for all parties involved, and would only serve the interests of the rich elites of both countries.
You say war would serve rich elites (that's pretty much all wars?) , so you agree with my suspicions that this is about manufacturing consent for a US-China war ?
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 No.353356

>>353349
Zionists deserve to die as well, what’s your point?
Every polfag should be murdered and every ziorat should be murdered
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 No.353361

>>353342
>Please point me in the direction of this 'official' calculation. What makes it official? Was it produced by a government? Are there in fact multiple versions that explain the death toll (6 million) differently? When was the figure of 6 million decided upon; was it after the 'official' calculation took place, or prior?
When I talk about the "official holocaust calculation", I am referring to the most commonly accepted numbers.
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/documenting-numbers-of-victims-of-the-holocaust-and-nazi-persecution
Post-war, multiple calculations of the death toll took place utilizing different methods which themselves used a comparison of census data and an analyzing of available records from both the Axis and Allies. The numbers ranged from about 4 million, to around 7 million, with most estimates falling in between. The 6 million figure, like most death figures, is a general average of most of these figures, and is the most commonly accepted for simplicity. The number also has some sticking to it, as it's the amount the Nazis themselves passed around, and while you could instead say "anywhere from 4 to 7 million Jews were killed", 6 million seems to be accepted as suitable in terms of getting the point across.
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 No.353364

>>353349
>Being anti-zionist is the same as being anti-semitic
/pol/fags and Zionists thinking in exactly the same way.
>>

 No.353367

>>353345
>It is true. There wasn't government sanctioned interest on a national level for the Uyghur situation until the pandemic.
Here's Congress pressuring China on the topic in 2018.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/11/15/china-diplomats-congress-muslim-persecution-rubio-uighur/2010636002/
>Are there Uyghurs in Hong Kong? Stay on topic.
It is on topic. The "human rights" campaign which has concrete pro-USA foreign policy interests realized against China is one overarching topic. Hong Kong protesters understand this:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/12/23/hong-kong-protest-rally-solidarity-uighur-muslims-china-xinjiang/
And yes there are Uyghurs in Hong Kong, or at least there are quite a lot of Muslims there. It's a very diverse city, what the fuck did you think?
>China has been infiltrating America's national security for 30 years, and were heavily featured as being involved in the Clinton Administration.
Substantiate this
>The interest in Uyghur genocide was a dead topic in America, until last year.
Marco Rubio, writing in the Wall Street Journal in 2018, disagrees.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-campaign-against-muslim-minorities-1533855077
You'll want to keep an eye on Rubio to understand modern US foreign policy movements. If it involves Asia or especially China, or anywhere in Latin America, he's very often the spearhead, the one initiating the whole attack.
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 No.353399

Well, everyone who's researched the topic knows that the "Holocaust", meaning "program of systematically murdering all Jews in Europe" didn't happen. Specifically there were no death camps or gas chambers which was just propaganda.

It's also true that it's completely pointless to deny the holocaust. German apologists have done a huge amount of revisionist work over the decades and it hasn't broken the Holocaust myth. Our society is too strong for that. So denying the Holocaust will ONLY result in punishment, no benefit will be gained. Just be happy you know one historic truth and leave it at that.
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 No.353402

Fun fact - and its an important one I think leftypol needs to learn - the vast majority of people aren't won over by facts and evidence. Most people are influenced by emotion and "gut feeling" - shoving facts in people's faces only works for a minority of people.
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 No.353409

File: 1625311326747.png ( 14.99 KB , 190x200 , 1625311316569.png )

>>353399
>Well, everyone who's researched the topic knows that the "Holocaust", meaning "program of systematically murdering all Jews in Europe" didn't happen. Specifically there were no death camps or gas chambers which was just propaganda.
>It's also true that it's completely pointless to deny the holocaust. German apologists have done a huge amount of revisionist work over the decades and it hasn't broken the Holocaust myth. Our society is too strong for that. So denying the Holocaust will ONLY result in punishment, no benefit will be gained. Just be happy you know one historic truth and leave it at that.
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 No.353422

File: 1625312388873.mp4 ( 1.04 MB , 640x640 , traitors.mp4 )

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 No.353429

>>353409
Do you have a reaction image for being wrong?
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 No.353485

>>353399
>Well, everyone who's researched the topic knows that the "Holocaust", meaning "program of systematically murdering all Jews in Europe" didn't happen. Specifically there were no death camps or gas chambers which was just propaganda
Proof? Because every argument I've seen made on contrary doesn't have very much of a foundation to it, and I've seen my fair share of holocaust denial arguments and infographic during my time on the right.
>It's also true that it's completely pointless to deny the holocaust. German apologists have done a huge amount of revisionist work over the decades and it hasn't broken the Holocaust myth. Our society is too strong for that. So denying the Holocaust will ONLY result in punishment, no benefit will be gained. Just be happy you know one historic truth and leave it at that.
The Holocaust happend, stop coping about it. The actual issue is how only focusing on the Holocaust neglects the other genocides perpetuated by the Nazis, as well as imperialist Europe as a whole.
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 No.353533

>>353485
This is the subject of a lot of books, but the key points:
1. There isn't a SINGLE legitimate piece of documentary evidence that supports it.
2. Trials relied on a few tortured / duress confessions, interpreting the deportation of Jews as killing them, and a few fabricated documents to provide the missing documentary evidence tying it together.
3. The complete lack of any physical evidence of mass killing operations.
4. Large amount of documentary evidence showing that the Final Solution was, in fact, deporting Jews and not killing them.
5. The logistical impossibility of the claimed killing volume at the main centers.
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 No.353538

File: 1625318948090.png ( 1.92 MB , 1242x1035 , Face the wall.png )

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 No.353543

File: 1625319102989.png ( 1.19 MB , 1010x1200 , 42BE72D2-C490-4E56-AC3E-AE….png )

>>353533
>Coming to a communist forum
<Spurting out /pol/ copes to deny the greatest crime committed by the greatest enemies of communism that were primarily perpetuated against the Soviet people
You need to leave and die
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 No.353544

>>353533
>The complete lack of any physical evidence of mass killing operations.
i literally saw it with my own eyes. go back.
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 No.353554

>>353543
What does a made-up holocaust have to do with Communism? I don't understand. Well, the Soviets literally invented mass-killing stories (ie, Babi Yar) complete with props and signs that today no serious historian believes let alone revisionists. But the Soviets under Stalin were hardly Communist.
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 No.353555

>>353544
Please identify this physical evidence this would be an enormous find.
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 No.353567

>>353335
>They didn't suddenly start ramping up aggression against China last year, this is literally bullshit
They started it WAAAAY back in 2016
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 No.353576

>>353015
It's because fascism needs liberal "discourse" and "debate" to exist. If the nazis were taken at fave value for what they are they would be exterminated. If the holocaust isn't real than nazisim is just theoretical and needs to be discussed and debated.
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 No.353577

>>353055
The most lefty-est country of all time was the one who found the camps, you fucking retard
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 No.353580

File: 1625320811527.gif ( 18.29 KB , 200x219 , c4e585501041d76b475c301fa9….gif )

>holocaust didnt happen
>subduing jews is good
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 No.353585

fine i'll say the Holocaust didn't happen WINKY WINKY NUDGE NUDGE, happy now rightoids? i hope that it happens again but to suburban rightoids instead
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 No.353586

File: 1625320978619.png ( 134.76 KB , 1183x653 , 1623295686765-0.png )

>>353533
>3. The complete lack of any physical evidence of mass killing operations.
except for that shitload of prussian blue in the walls, you absolute chemistrylet
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 No.353590

>>353029
Those have plenty of deniers, hell just look at Turkey's policy towards Armenia. To be frank tho, for the Rwandan genocide, the only denial I've heard from it comes from Living Marxism and that one anon's Welsh grandpa.
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 No.353591

>inb4 9000 polyp shills
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 No.353595

>>353048
>Yes, it would be worthwhile to study clinically, in detail, the steps taken by Hitler and Hitlerism and to reveal to the very distinguished, very humanistic, very Christian bourgeois of the twentieth century that without his being aware of it, he has a Hitler inside him, that Hitler inhabits him, that Hitler is his demon, that if he rails against him, he is being inconsistent and that, at bottom, what he cannot forgive Hitler for is not crime in itself, the crime against man, it is not the humiliation of man as such, it is the crime against the white man, the humiliation of the white man, and the fact that he applied to Europe colonialist procedures which until then had been reserved exclusively for the Arabs of Algeria, the coolies of India, and the blacks of Africa.
-Aime Cesaire, Discourse on Colonialism
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 No.353601

>>353052
Look bro, nobody denies that the events of the Holodomor, ie a famine afflicted Ukraine that killed a couple million people, happened. I mean, maybe Grover Furr denies it, but hardly anybody else. What we disagree with is the narrative that this famine was part of some uber-secret conspiracy to genocide all the Ukrainians, essentially the Eastern European fascists' narrative. For the record, outside of fringe conservative circles and Eastern European gusanos, the academic consensus seems to be solidly that the famine was not a genocide, just look at how few countries recognize it as such. Trust me, if the case for it being genocide was even slightly tenable, the United States would have jumped at the chance to recognize it as such by now. This is nowhere near comparable to the Holocaust, where once you accept the basic fact that millions of Jews died in concentration camps, there is no way to interpret it as anything less than genocide.

God, the fact that we even have to explain this on a communist imageboard shows how deep /pol/ infestation is, probably as a result of their raids with some poloids sticking behind to become "Nazbols" or "Strasserists" or "Jucheists". How about you all become stop-switching-reactionary-ideologies-every-week-and-go-get-laidists.
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 No.353606

>>353586
Read the book _The Chemistry of Auschwitz_ for a complete debunking. In reality the levels of gas used were only consistent with what they were used for – fumigation. The book is written by an actual chemist who conducted his own chemical analysis as well as analysis of others' works. You can't read this book and come away with any other conclusion than Zyklon was used for anything but fumigation. It's a very dense read so be prepared to dedicate a lot of time plowing through chemistry science, but if you have a triple digit IQ and a willingness to learn something it's very doable.
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 No.353620

>>353606
The Rudolf report tries to give credibility to the widely debunked pseudo-scientific Leuchter report, and Germar Rudolf is a know German neo-nazi who is currently in prison. Richard Green has meticulously debunked this "report":

https://web.archive.org/web/20080604152626/http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/not-the-science/
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 No.354229

>>353533
>1. There isn't a SINGLE legitimate piece of documentary evidence that supports it.
Garbage. There is plenty of documentary evidence which supports it. Every time such evidence is brought up though, denialist will just brush it aside by trying to claim it was either a) Fabricated or b) Unreliable.
>2. Trials relied on a few tortured / duress confessions, interpreting the deportation of Jews as killing them, and a few fabricated documents to provide the missing documentary evidence tying it together.
Called it before I even read it. The deportation also literally did kill Jews out of ethnically based negligence. Even assuming your argument, which nobody should because of the amount of assumptions needed to make it, such a thing would still be genocide, just as much as the deportation and purposeful negligence of the natives in the United States was genocide.
>3. The complete lack of any physical evidence of mass killing operations.
They've literally dug out more then half a hundred mass graves, and continue to uncover more. And again, depriving people of supplies and leaving them to the elements to die counts in the case of the Nazis, because they were clear in their position of not caring about the lives of the Jews they did it to.
>4. Large amount of documentary evidence showing that the Final Solution was, in fact, deporting Jews and not killing them.
Deporting to where? Deporting in what way? C'mon you fag, this is weak. The best evidence there is for this is that the Nazi initially carried out deportation, and then moved onto extermination. Nowhere is it just deportation, especially later on.
>5. The logistical impossibility of the claimed killing volume at the main centers
In what way is is logistically impossible?
<Inb4 "muh cookies"
Not all 4 to 7 million were killed in camps you faggot. Most were killed by rather "mundane" means as the Nazis made their way throughout Eastern Europe, and also by negligence that they were aware of but didn't care for during "processing". If we assume that many died of malnutrition and abuse in the camps, it is not at all absurd that many also died from execution by either shooting or gas chamber. A million or so is not at all ridiculous in 5+ years time.
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 No.354533

>>353620
The Leuchter report was not in any way "debunked" and certainly not widely. A judge decided that Leuchter was not qualified as an expert in the field and therefore his report was dismissed. Rudolf critiques the Leuchter report and compares its findings with his chemical analysis and finds that outside of a few errors the main findings of the Leuchter report were validated.

The Zyklon gassing story is now so untenable that it's completely impossible to support it without bald-faced dishonesty or just plain ignorance. It was literally atrocity propaganda invented by the Polish resistance for the British and then made "official" at Nuremberg. They put out a lot of ridiculous, fake atrocity stories, the gas chambers is just the one that made it into history. Someone other non-Holocaust historians will mistakenly repeat atrocity stories that have been discarded by the Holocaust mainstream such as mobile gassing vans which were vehicles with their exhaust piped into the prisoner area as the method of killing. Brain-bashing machines are another. Some atrocity stories were so ridiculous prosecutors didn't even bother trying to argue them, ie, dogs with poisoned fangs.

The point of bringing up that up is to illustrate that the Polish resistance were very prolific and creative in their attempts to propagandize the British, and the gas chambers is just the one story which made it into the official myth.
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 No.354544

>>353399
Are you denying that forced slave labor did not happen? Because the Nazis certainly utilized slave labor in the camps, and slave labor of non-Germans generally.

This is a silly argument in which the Nazis claim that all Jews had to be killed by gas and specifically gas, and that there was nothing else to the internment of political enemies in the Nazi regime. No slavery, nosiree bob! It is consciously mimicking the pretenses of "humane execution" the Nazis openly conducted upon the disabled, as early as possible in their regime. The whole narrative is structured in a way that it's hint-hinting that actually the killings were good, because it's just like disposing "useless eaters". Of course, the Nazi extermination of the disabled underclass was not so sanitary.

It's not even worth debunking these facile arguments. Every kraut knew damn well what was happening, and the Nazi faithful did not have one regret about it. Everyone else was cowed into accepting it.

Same shit is going on now with covid world and the ongoing cull. We're in the first year of the Aktion-T4 reboot. The worst is yet to come. Figures that you maggots would be carrying water for the current regime plan, and why you've suddenly gone mum about "revolution".
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 No.354549

>>354544
And just like then, capos and gutless followers know damn well what is happening, and they laugh about it, make snide remarks at anyone who isn't with the program. Europe for sure is reverting to fascist rule. UK and America are in for something much worse, eugenism like we have never seen.
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 No.354566

Nazis and other fascists know that their ideas are totally indigestible for normies, that their views are detestable, and that their ideology is entirely incompatible with so-called liberalism. So, in order to better propagate their beliefs, they invoke liberal-sounding concepts like "identity," utilize dogwhistles, etc. The holocaust and other forms of ethnic cleansing is a bit of a troubling issue for them that they haven't quite figured out how to dress up. It is inconvenient for them. But remember: they're not trying to win over rational people. They're trying to win over insane people. Insane people are much more useful to them.
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 No.354567

>>353029
For the right-wing operatives, it is a problematic situation to find themselves in. They support ethnic cleanings, but they rely on invoking liberalism in order to maintain broad support, or at the very least, to infiltrate so-called liberal institutions so that they can continue to propagate their beliefs. Of course, it is a bit of irony that liberal institutions often exist as a result of genocide. Weird, huh
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 No.354581

>>354566
It's not so much about propagating their beliefs as if the objective was to persuade people of the intellectual merits of fascism. The people who are smart enough to figure out what fascism is really about, know exactly what they are doing if they are supportive of such a regime. The objective of the memes is to terrorize and beat down everyone who is not a fascist, to perpetually press the nerve of power and utilize every torture tactic possible. The fascist system at its core is degeneracy and nothing but, and it thrives not so much when the mass of people are impassioned, but when the predatory element is emboldened and the rest of humanity is cowed. All fascist propaganda is oriented towards the beating and humiliation of the target enemies of the moment, and appeals to the basest fear.

The identity stuff is less about mainstreaming their ideas for a liberal audience, or convincing ordinary conservatives that fascism is for them. It is essential to the fascist project to pit populations against each other, and make every distinction between people into a political affair of great importance. If you understand fascism as the political system of eugenics, the reasons why this is done are not hard to see at all. The nationalism, appeals to some collectivity in the form of the nation, that is superficial and intended to persuade, but that is the feature of an earlier incarnation of fascism, one that carried the imprint of earlier political forms during a transitional period. Identity politics, though, runs to the very core of what fascism (eugenics) is. It follows along the eugenicist obsession with assigning everyone in the whole society a caste based on civic worth, and encourages the crass selfishness and cruelty at the core of eugenics as a religious creed.
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 No.354635

>>354566
The flip side if this finds communists now taking up the cause of Zionism and the virulent strain of Hasbara Zionism, by promoting all the exact same talking points that Zionists have for decades, such as;
>the Holocaust is the most unique genocide in history
>Armenians have no claim to genocide
>Ukrainians have no claim to genocide
>Uyhurs aren't being genocided, keep those mechanisms of capitalism flowing
Western socialists now find themselves in the same boat as neoconservatives, promoting the very groupthinks that capitalist institutions formulated for them to promote. Insane people indeed, who simultaneously preach Das Kapital, while also preaching the Zionist narrative for why Israel should be a monocultural ethnostate. The Holocaust narrative was and is the #1 propaganda tool for justifying the one state state solution and the expanding colonization of Palestine/Israel. Womp womp.
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 No.354640

File: 1625369304683.png ( 399.39 KB , 760x540 , when noone actually says t….png )

>>354635
>the Holocaust is the most unique genocide in history
>Armenians have no claim to genocide
>Ukrainians have no claim to genocide
>Uyhurs aren't being genocided, keep those mechanisms of capitalism flowing
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 No.354643

>>354533
How is the Leuchter report not debunked? The guy literally hacked chunks of brick from the walls and didn't even tell the lab he used to extract samples only from the interior-facing edge
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 No.354644

>>354635
>Uyghurs aren't being genocided, keep those mechanisms of capitalism flowing
So what China is saying is a Zionist talking point? Tf
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 No.354645

>>354640
Literally can't see your low effort meme reply, so more fails for you komrade.
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 No.354648

>>354635
what the fuck are you talking about you fucking schizo and how comes you just so happen to leave out british and US committed genocides you little transparent shit?
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 No.354651

>>354644
Those who identify with Zionism in the west nearly unanimously are opposed to the idea that the Uyghurs are being eradicated as a people. I've never met a capitalist shill who wasn't also a 'verrry heavy supporter of Israel', and pro-China. These are a few of the status quo requirements for the bourgeois midwits today. Libs and centrist cons both follow this platform.
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 No.354653

>>354648
Because it doesn't fit the zionist narrative. Most likely also excludes what happened to sheikh jarrah. Probably a CIA glowie agent/langleytard
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 No.354659

>>354648
They're rarely the topic of conversation amongst capitalists and their supporters. Try visiting any political forum and starting a thread to address the 2 million Iraqi deaths, the million or so killed in Syria, which are the fallout from the CIA's meddling with Middle East affairs, and watch your replies on such threads amount to 1 or 2 at the most. Porkies don't even view those victims as human, and thus don't concern themselves with the subject. Besides, we got Saddam Hussein's oil, Israel had an enemy eliminated, and we opened borders for several million migrants to become low paid wage slaves in the US and Europe. See what I mean?
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 No.354665

>>354544
I'm denying the Holocaust which is the programmatic mass extermination (killing) of Jews. It was, in fact, the policy of the Third Reich, with increasing levels of severity as time went on, to expel Jews from Germany with a long-term goal of expelling them Europe in general. The use of Jews as forced labor in support of the increasingly difficult war effort, however, did trump the expulsion policy to a large degree. This is not the Holocaust. There were a lot of deaths in the camps due to poor conditions in the early years and especially at the end of the war. These deaths were not the result of a program of extermination so it's also not the Holocaust. Records of dead in the camps are fragmentary but what has been recovered so far is not even a small fraction of the claimed several millions killed in the camps as a part of the Holocaust.

The closest thing to evidence of a Holocaust are the problematic Einsatzgruppen reports. Problematic because the numbers claimed to have been killed are not even remotely supported by physical evidence or common sense. In addition, this is ALSO not the Holocaust because the Einsatzgruppen were tasked with destroying insurgencies (including communal punishment) and the elimination of political enemies (Jewish leaders, Bolsheviks, commissars, Communists, etc). In addition to the lack of physical evidence (a "mass grave" with a few dozen bodies in a war zone does not constitute sufficient evidence of a Holocaust) the Einsatzgruppen was simply much too small of a group to have possibly have chased down, rounded up and killed that many people. So either the reports are faked or they are legitimate and the officers were simply lying to appease Hitler.

The solution to the "Jewish Question" was stated over and over again: the expulsion of Jews. This was affirmed many times in speeches and in the private diaries of leading Nazis. Nowhere, not even in the diaries, was there mention of exterminating Jews. Mainstream Holocaust historians claim that the extermination program was so secret that Nazis would only refer to it indirectly, ie, expulsion actually means killing them by those in the know. They also rely on certain German words that sound bad in direct translation to English (ie, "liquidation") but in the original textual interpretation don't mean killing.

Of course, the idea that this massive industrial killing operation could be conducted successfully only via nuges and winks without any bureaucratic control, without any records, orders, manifests, invoices, etc and so on, is completely absurd. But when you have to support a social requirement you just swallow the absurdity and go along with it.
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 No.354677

Read lying about Hitler, it deals with the libel lawsuit filed by David Irving. It breaks down the methods and practices of holocaust denial.

Simply put the reason for most people is ignorance of history and how history is created - all of which is easier because its in a foreign language to most people and there are people who put extraordinary efforts into lying about it and creating miss information due to their antisemitism or love of Hitler and the Nazis.



>Yes 6 million did fucking die…. you have to be a complete spergeloard schizo to miss this


Raul Hilberg who wrote the most important work on the Holocaust disagrees and provides a different figure of 5.1 million.
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 No.354685

>>354659
They will do their best to portray themselves as the only good guys in any given conflict or even at peacetime.
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 No.354688

>>354644
Zionism is the foundation from which all of modern libs and cons cannot deviate from. It is THE one issue you must acquiesce to, or you will called an extremist. Everything else falls under 'individualism'. You can be a lib and a gun owner. You can be a con and a LGBT supporter. But you cannot be either if you support BDS, or you think something is fishy about AIPAC. Zionism and centrism go hand in hand, and the their adherents do not want to rock the boat when it comes to China, especially over some Muslim minority.
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 No.354690

>>354688
So with that in mind China is a fervent supporter of zionism?
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 No.354700

>>354665
> Nowhere, not even in the diaries, was there mention of exterminating Jews.

Here is a diary entry from Goebbels, when he talks of liquidation what do you think he means?

>The Jews are now being pushed out of the General Government, beginning near Lublin, to the East. A pretty barbaric procedure is being applied here, and it is not to be described in any more detail, and not much is left of the Jews themselves. In general one may conclude that 60% of them must be liquidated, while only 40% can be put to work. The former Gauleiter of Vienna [Globocnik], who is carrying out this action, is doing it pretty prudently and with a procedure that doesn’t work too conspicuously. The Jews are being punished barbarically, to be sure, but they have fully deserved it. The prophecy that the Führer issued to them on the way, for the eventuality that they started a new world war, is beginning to realise itself in the most terrible manner. One must not allow any sentimentalities to rule in these matters. If we did not defend ourselves against them, the Jews would annihilate us. It is a struggle for life and death between the Aryan race and the Jewish bacillus. No other government and no other regime could muster the strength for a general solution of the question. Here too, the Führer is the persistent pioneer and spokesman of a radical solution, which is demanded by the way things are and thus appears to be unavoidable. Thank God, during the war we now have a whole series of possibilities which were barred to us in peacetime. We must exploit them. The ghettos which are becoming available in the General Government are now being filled with the Jews who are being pushed out of the Reich, and after a certain time the process is then to renew itself here. Jewry has nothing to laugh about


For reference the "prophecy of Hitler refers to:

>Thus after a meeting with Hitler, Goebbels noted in his diary on 19 August 1941:


>We speak about the Jewish problem. The Führer is convinced that his former prophecy in the Reichstag, that if Jewry succeeded once more in provoking a world war, it would end with the annihilation of the Jews, is being confirmed. It is being confirmed in these weeks and months with a certainty that seems almost uncanny
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 No.354701

>>354677
>Raul Hilberg
When testifying in a criminal trial of a holocaust denier, Hilberg said there is no scientific evidence which proves the Holocaust took place. Hilberg is widely regarded as the world's foremost Holocaust historian. The figure of 6 million was arrived at in 1943, and was bandied about by Russian propagandists and American Zionists. It's been a case of trying to prove a hypothesis ever since, one that was based on an arbitrary number that men from unscientific backgrounds settled upon. Russia's holocaust propagandists were fiction writers Illya Ehrenberg and Vasily Grossman, both who Stalin would later disown as saboteurs against Russia. Many of Ehrenberg and Grossman's contemporaries in the holocaust industry were executed by Stalin for treason against the state. Modern communists who serve as lapdogs for Zionism are particularly peculiar, and not at all in step with the Soviet Union's analysis of the event.
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 No.354707

>>354690
Yes, I would say so. Communist China opposed Zionism & Israel from 1948-1992. The modern Capitalist China partners with them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Jewish_Refugees_Museum

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Holocaust_and_Tolerance_Centre
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 No.354718

>>354707
Oh I thought China as someone opposed to anything West opposed Israel too. And what communist supports a settler colonial state?
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 No.354720

File: 1625373551511.png ( 159.75 KB , 334x500 , x2pc326qow901.png )

The victims of the Holocaust aren't any different from other victims of capitalism

Read Bordiga
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 No.354721

The whole thing behind the holocaust is that it's actually a very big trope in order to initiate the creation of the State of Israel. So the Jewish lobby and its allies (including America) helped Nazi Germany in its Final Solution efforts only to garner sympathy
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 No.354743

>>354701
> Hilberg said there is no scientific evidence which proves the Holocaust took place.

Are you sure you read his testimony correctly? The closest Ive seen to that was Hilberg stating that he did not know of any scientific report conducted on the walls of gas chambers for zyklon B.
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 No.354759

>>354533
>The Zyklon gassing story is now so untenable that it's completely impossible to support it without bald-faced dishonesty or just plain ignorance. It was literally atrocity propaganda invented by the Polish resistance for the British and then made "official" at Nuremberg. They put out a lot of ridiculous, fake atrocity stories, the gas chambers is just the one that made it into history. Someone other non-Holocaust historians will mistakenly repeat atrocity stories that have been discarded by the Holocaust mainstream such as mobile gassing vans which were vehicles with their exhaust piped into the prisoner area as the method of killing. Brain-bashing machines are another. Some atrocity stories were so ridiculous prosecutors didn't even bother trying to argue them, ie, dogs with poisoned fangs.
This isn't evidence that gassing didn't happen, this is a fallicious argument predicated on the idea that because some sensationalized atrocity stories are untrue (which is a rather common occurance for many major traumatic events in the years following i), that all said atrocities are untrue, even the ones with actual foundation to them.
>The point of bringing up that up is to illustrate that the Polish resistance were very prolific and creative in their attempts to propagandize the British, and the gas chambers is just the one story which made it into the official myth
The gas chambers are quite possibly one of the execution methods which has the most backing to it outside of direct shooting operations. All of the arguments trying to debunk the gassing ends up collapsing when placed under scrutiny, with Rudolf himself, the one who allegedly has the most "sufficient" background out of any denier in terms of the subject, being forced to back track his claims regarding the weight of the "chemical evidence".
>>354635
>The flip side if this finds communists now taking up the cause of Zionism and the virulent strain of Hasbara Zionism, by promoting all the exact same talking points that Zionists have for decades, such as;
Where are communists taking the side of Zionism? In what way is acknowledging the Holocaust somehow upholding the Zionist cause? Are you implying that all go those non-zionist Jews who suffered under the Nazis or lost family to them are merely "playing along"? Is Finkelstein, one the major advocates in support of Palestinian rights and who calls out Israel for actions that not even many alleged "anti-zionists" would have the balls to, secretly a Zionist co-conspirator because he states he lost family in the Holocaust? Fuck off, anti-zionism is not the same as denying such events simply because Zionists might misuse them. Zionists happily parade in the blood of those Jews who died in Europe, as those Jews died to give their existence "legitimacy". To deny the Holocaust simply because they would do so is to spit in the face of the bodies they defile.
>the Holocaust is the most unique genocide in history
No one states this.
>Armenians have no claim to genocide
No one states this.
>Ukrainians have no claim to genocide
Never happend.
>Uyhurs aren't being genocided, keep those mechanisms of capitalism flowing
Also never happend.
>Western socialists now find themselves in the same boat as neoconservatives, promoting the very groupthinks that capitalist institutions formulated for them to promote. Insane people indeed, who simultaneously preach Das Kapital, while also preaching the Zionist narrative for why Israel should be a monocultural ethnostate. The Holocaust narrative was and is the #1 propaganda tool for justifying the one state state solution and the expanding colonization of Palestine/Israel. Womp womp.
Give me a single example of communists, outside of literal memes that most communists find themselves repulsed by, that uses the Holocaust as a reason justifying Israel's existence? Communists are against Israel regardless of such. The Holocaust is only a "justification" if you let it be one. Communists recognize that it is no such thing, that one genocide does not justify another, and hold up the banner of anti-zionism despite the kvetching of Israel. And Israel could care less for whether 6 million were killed by extermination or by "accident", their arguments would be exactly the same and their leverage no different, as it's not the actual event that matters, it's how it's used. Do you honestly actually fucking think that things would be different if Israel was cudgeling people over the head with a story of mass abuse and death rather then extermination outright? 6 million, 1 million, it doesn't matter to zionists, and your retarded focus on trying to "debunk" the Holocaust to "own" them is so completely misguided it borders on idealism, because it assumes that their arguments are actually founded on the event itself and that if the event were simply "disproven", they would lose their "justification". Here some news faggot, Zionists aren't in the position they are in because they pulled off a really good PR stunt. They are where they are because Israel benefits western Imperialism, and regardless of how severe the actual treatment of Jews during WW2 was, Zionists would still be exactly where they are, working side by side with the west and using whatever story they needed to in order to maintain the symbiotic relationship Israel has with it. The only people who suffer in your mindless diatribe are those who actually suffered, those who actually were carted off by the Nazis to die in train cars and shooting operations and camps, who's lives were later abused by the Zionists who took their suffering and assembled it into a weapon to cause suffering no different then that those innocents experienced, all to satiate their imperialists and ethnonationalist ambitions. It does nothing to the Zionists themselves.
>>

 No.354791

>>354718
>China is opposed to anything from the west.
What in the golems are you talking about? They haven't opposed westernism since the 1980s. You must ignore giving credence to rhetoric if policy doesn't support it.

>And what communist supports a settler colonial state?

What communist worships western capitalism? China aren't communists. It's almost as if you guys live in bubble circa 1980, and aren't able to view Chinese culture for yourselves. Or perhaps when you see a commerce district in China loaded with Nike, Apple, and KFC oulets, you think its a CIA deepfake. Idk. You all are a bit of a mystery to me.
>>

 No.354821

>>354743
No, the question posed to Hilberg was, "to your knowledge, is there any scientific proof for the mass extermination of the Jews during World War Two", to which he replied "No."
>>

 No.354833

>>354759
>In what way is acknowledging the Holocaust somehow upholding the Zionist cause?
It's not. Everyone acknowledges that Jews died in this period of European history from 1941-1945. Leftists go a great deal beyond that however, and blankly adopt all of the talking points that Zionists do, by portraying the Holocaust as;
- the centerpiece of 20th century history
- the most unique genocide in the history of mankind
- totally deserving of 200+ Holocaust museums and memorials worldwide, many of which charge a hefty fee for entry
- the event that shields Jewish people from being judged negatively when they colonize and genocide a people

You lot are just as complicit in the spread of Zionist goals as the bumbling, fumbling Neoconservatives are. Still worse, you won't admit to others or yourselves that you're playing a part in the barbarism against Palestinians, which has always been justified by the idea that the Jews are owed a religious ethnostate because of the Holocaust.
Exploiting tragedy for geopolitical gains is what's going on here, and its why the Soviet Union opposed both the Holocaust narrative, and Israel for 50 years.
>>

 No.354846

>>354821
Can you post a reference for that then?
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 No.354854

File: 1625381811159.jpg ( 2.57 MB , 1500x2406 , aff79e88c826e3cb7623d042c9….jpg )

>>354665
>I'm denying the Holocaust which is the programmatic mass extermination (killing) of Jews. It was, in fact, the policy of the Third Reich, with increasing levels of severity as time went on, to expel Jews from Germany with a long-term goal of expelling them Europe in general. The use of Jews as forced labor in support of the increasingly difficult war effort, however, did trump the expulsion policy to a large degree. This is not the Holocaust. There were a lot of deaths in the camps due to poor conditions in the early years and especially at the end of the war. These deaths were not the result of a program of extermination so it's also not the Holocaust. Records of dead in the camps are fragmentary but what has been recovered so far is not even a small fraction of the claimed several millions killed in the camps as a part of the Holocaust.
There are multiple recorded statement from the Nazis themselves making it clear their transition from deportation to extermination, and the records that can be assembled from the camp points towards at the very least a million perishing given the total amount being transported through them and collected census data comparisons. Your argument doesn't even hold up in regards to even the most generous view of your extermination vs expulsion dichotomy, as the Nazi's policy in terms of the treatment Jews functioned as extermination regardless given their position on their very existence, which was that of any Jewish death was one that was inevitably deserved. The Nazi's could have cared less that Jews perished in either their deprivation or transportation, and showed little concern for any abuses which resulted in their deaths while living under their regime, which was again very clear on its position regarding Jews. The only degree of "care" which existed was extremely late into the war and was only in regards to forced labour. Of this, the only concern was to keep the labour going. Those who could not labour, or were not needed as such to fill the quota, could be simply directly disposed of or left to perish. The Nazis both practiced and permitted extermination, and were knowledgeable of both. If a US official, when asked in regards to the "Native issue", responds that he wishes that they perish from the earth, and then lays out a policy of both direct disposal and "less then direct" deprivation (of which he is aware will result in their perishing, but of course cares little as such a thing fulfills his desires regardless). then he is calling for a program of extermination. Nothing more, and nothing less. This isn't a case of a non-antisemitic regime "accidentally" killing off the Jews it comes across because it "accidentally" inadvertently took unrelated actions that resulted in their deaths, with no malice or consideration over what may occur. The Nazi's knew full well what would occur when they packed the Jews into ghettos. They knew full well what would happen when they took food and supplies from them, packed them into train cars, and shipped them out to be "processed" and placed in camps. And they knew what giving a blank check for soldiers on the front line to do what "needed to done", soldiers having been fed an ideology which made it clear the "nature" of the Jew and other subhuman ethnicities, meant. They weren't stupid in this regard, they knew the consequences of such. And they did not care for such, because in the end it satisfied their ideological goals. A program of extermination occurred whichever way you slice it, and the Nazis lie at the center. The only real thing to lament in that regard is that not enough focus is given to the other groups and peoples they afflicted this upon.
>The closest thing to evidence of a Holocaust are the problematic Einsatzgruppen reports. Problematic because the numbers claimed to have been killed are not even remotely supported by physical evidence or common sense. In addition, this is ALSO not the Holocaust because the Einsatzgruppen were tasked with destroying insurgencies (including communal punishment) and the elimination of political enemies (Jewish leaders, Bolsheviks, commissars, Communists, etc). In addition to the lack of physical evidence (a "mass grave" with a few dozen bodies in a war zone does not constitute sufficient evidence of a Holocaust) the Einsatzgruppen was simply much too small of a group to have possibly have chased down, rounded up and killed that many people. So either the reports are faked or they are legitimate and the officers were simply lying to appease Hitler.
Explain in what way the Einsatzgruppen reports are not supported. And if you remember, Jews themselves were treated as being a subversive and destructive element simply by being Jews. Jews were to be treated with suspicion of "insurgency" first and foremost, and any death of a Jew was inherently a death of the most deleterious and pernicious "vermin" to plague society. There was no such thing as a truly "innocent" jew and thus Jews were always suspect first. With such a logic, the most efficient way to kill probable insurgents and politcal enemies is to kill the Jews or at the very least expel them from the area to then perish to the elements. The Einsatzgruppen were also not "small", because they did not operate in isolation. Most of the time they operated with the assistance of Order Police battalions, and could call on the Wehrmacht if need be. They had whatever means they required for an operation, and massacres like Babi Yar and Rumbula prove their efficiency. The Einsatzgruppen rarely acted alone, and mainly commanded operations, Babi Yar having them utilize the Sonderkommandos, the SD, the Order Police Battalions, the Ukrainian Auxiliary Police, and the Wehrmacht to carry it out. This repeated elsewhere with what resources they had available to them.
>The solution to the "Jewish Question" was stated over and over again: the expulsion of Jews. This was affirmed many times in speeches and in the private diaries of leading Nazis. Nowhere, not even in the diaries, was there mention of exterminating Jews. Mainstream Holocaust historians claim that the extermination program was so secret that Nazis would only refer to it indirectly, ie, expulsion actually means killing them by those in the know. They also rely on certain German words that sound bad in direct translation to English (ie, "liquidation") but in the original textual interpretation don't mean killing.
This is just a flat out lie. Extermination, and to even clarify annihilation, were words explicitly referenced by Goebbels and others. If you're going to lie, at least lie better.
>Of course, the idea that this massive industrial killing operation could be conducted successfully only via nuges and winks without any bureaucratic control, without any records, orders, manifests, invoices, etc and so on, is completely absurd. But when you have to support a social requirement you just swallow the absurdity and go along with it.
Except it wasn't conducted only via "nudges and winks" you fag.
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 No.354867

>>

 No.354871

>>354846
I have an article about it saved to another device. I'll upload it when I can. In spite of it being covered by MSM in 1986, its almost impossible to find any mention of on the internet. It's definitely not mentioned on Hilburgs wiki page.
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 No.354893

>>354871
Fair enough, this board is fairly slow so there is no rush.

The source of information I was relying on due to not having the actual court transcript on hand was "Report of the Evidence in the Canadian 'False News' Trial of Ernst Zündel – 1988' By Barbara Kulaszka which contains a series of excerpts by it. Given her other work I assumed if there was something that direct and hostile to the orthodox narrative she would have included it.
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 No.354898

>>354701
what scientific proof, might i ask, could you offer that the russian revolution took place?
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 No.354933

File: 1625385436162.jpg ( 171.7 KB , 640x360 , 82544074960100640360no.jpg )

>>354701
>Russia's holocaust propagandists were fiction writers Illya Ehrenberg and Vasily Grossman, both who Stalin would later disown as saboteurs against Russia. Many of Ehrenberg and Grossman's contemporaries in the holocaust industry were executed by Stalin for treason against the state. Modern communists who serve as lapdogs for Zionism are particularly peculiar, and not at all in step with the Soviet Union's analysis of the event.
Yet none of those were disowned for their writings on the holocaust you faggot. Neither were those in the USSR which stated the severity of the holocaust. If anything, the primary analysis and statement made by the Soviet Union was that of the holocaust most assuredly having happened, and the Soviets being the liberators who stopped it. The only difference in its analysis overall is that it treated the holocaust as one part of a larger campaign of extermination and subjugation carried out by the Nazis. Not once to my knowledge did the Politburo or the Supreme Soviet state that the holocaust did not occur.
>>354833
>Leftists go a great deal beyond that however, and blankly adopt all of the talking points that Zionists do
No, they do not, and what a completely absurd statement to make. The PFLP doesn't deny the holocaust. It states the state of Israel abuses it and uses its victims as an excuse to carry out similar crimes of its own, but it doesn't deny it. Is the PFLP adopting "all the taking points Zionists do", despite literally fighting Israel?
>the centerpiece of 20th century history
Nobody does this.
>the most unique genocide in the history of mankind
Nobody does this as well. If anything, multiple anons have mentioned it as simply one part in a long legacy of genocide perpetuated by the western powers, and see the overly narrow focus on it as misguided. It was not some "freak event" which emerged from nowhere, and it was far from the only of its kind.
>totally deserving of 200+ Holocaust museums and memorials worldwide, many of which charge a hefty fee for entry
Nobody states this as well. Its purely eurocentric in its focus, and study of genocide should be far more broad.
>the event that shields Jewish people from being judged negatively when they colonize and genocide a people
No one denied that Zionists utilize the holocaust to their advantage while gleefully prancing in their blood of victims, victims subjected to a state espousing an ideology not so different from the Nazis themselves. What we disagreed with was if it actually occurred, or rather didn't occur in your view. Shockingly anon, you can concede the holocaust occurred, while also being completely opposed to Israel outright. If anything, the holocaust having occurred makes Israel's actions twice more deplorable, as the perversity of its reasoning is laid out for all who can see it. If a person on the subject wishes to be consistent, they must oppose Israel just as much as they would oppose the Nazis themselves.
>You lot are just as complicit in the spread of Zionist goals as the bumbling, fumbling Neoconservatives are.
No, we are not. If anything, it is those denialists and rabid antisemites who feed into Israel, as they foment the conditions which Israel uses to legitimatize itself and increase the dysphoria leaping into its arms. No Zionist benefited from a communist stating its opposition to them and comparing them to the Nazis in their ideology and actions.
>Still worse, you won't admit to others or yourselves that you're playing a part in the barbarism against Palestinians, which has always been justified by the idea that the Jews are owed a religious ethnostate because of the Holocaust.
The Jews aren't owed a religious ethnostate because of the holocaust. You don't get it do you? For all your ranting and raving about the holocaust and Zionists, you still play by their logic. That is to say if the holocaust happened, then Israel is justified in its creation. That why you so desperately wish to disprove it, because to you it would otherwise be entirely justified. But for communists, this is a non-issue, because we don't play by such false logic. Jews, just as with any other ethnic or religious group, are not owed their own state because of the crimes perpetuated on them in the past. Rather, such a state only perpetuates crimes itself. Regardless of such things, of what events may have occurred, we must reject entirely such reactionary creations. I am consistent in this, as should anyone who claims to be opposed to such things. One can not be opposed to the Nazis and their actions, and yet support Israel. No matter what Israel states on the contrary, that is the consistent position.
>Exploiting tragedy for geopolitical gains is what's going on here
No doubt
>and its why the Soviet Union opposed both the Holocaust narrative, and Israel for 50 years.
The USSR opposed Israel, but it did not reject the holocaust having occurred. Now did it reject its use by Israel? Absolutely, but it is critical for us not to get the two confused with each other, and conflating the two plays right into the hands of Zionists. The USSR ended the holocaust. Israel is trying to create its own.
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 No.354977

>>353015
Because (according to nazoids) if they killed the jews, why is the world still shit?
>>353052
I dont think anyone here doubts the holodomor happened. Most just disagree it was a genocide
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 No.354979

>>354688
You'd be surprised how many libs will straight up say they don't like Jews, and it's not at all a forbidden opinion to think Israel is shit. Pro-Palestinian sentiment in the US is hardly uncommon. It's not even politically so toxic to be unthinkable. Politicians know what people would say about "those people" at the dinner table. Support for Israel has usually been muted, justified with "two-state solution" instead of outright upholding Zionist supremacy, and they really have to force the idea that ordinary Americans are supposed to care about Shitrael.
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 No.354993

File: 1625391202374-0.jpg ( 2.57 MB , 1500x2406 , holohaux 1.jpg )

File: 1625391202374-1.jpg ( 5.22 MB , 1500x3444 , holohaux 2.jpg )

File: 1625391202374-2.jpg ( 3.73 MB , 1500x2702 , holohaux 3.jpg )

File: 1625391202374-3.jpg ( 3.89 MB , 1500x4092 , holohaux 4.jpg )

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 No.355012

>>353239
That second pic screams liberal, it's not immediately obvious but there's a clear anti-communist bias between the lines.
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 No.355022

>>353554
>that today no serious historian believes
Source?
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 No.355025

>>353601
>maybe Grover Furr denies it
Grover Furr does not deny it. https://youtu.be/u3-uh_idO_0

He has a reputation for denying everything but if you read/listen to him, his actual positions are a lot more reasonable.
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 No.355027

>>353543
> inflated 6 million number = greatest crime
>27 million dead in USSR = 2nd greatest crime
Stalin would of had you face the wall traitor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Murdered_Poets
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 No.355029

>>355027
>27 million dead
Stalin claimed 8 million and I believe him.
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 No.355032

>>353364
How can you so badly interpret what was written? And then further be so retarded as to think poltards believe Zionism is antisemitism? Come on fucker, you're glowing hard right now. Soon you'll be posting tits n ass pics of IDF "soldiers".
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 No.355033

>>355029
8 million of whom?
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 No.355035

>>355029
>“In fact, Stalin had knowledge of the other statistical data: 15 million casualties. This number was contained in a report delivered to him in early 1946, by the commission led by The State Planning Committee’s president Nikolai Voznesensky,”Professor Viktor Zemskov of the Institute of Russian History notes. Zemskov supposes that Stalin was eager to hide the real scale of losses from both the Soviet citizens and the world – in order not to show the USSR as a state weakened by the war.

>Nevertheless, the official 7-million estimate of casualties didn’t last long, as most Soviet people believed that number to be too low. In 1965, Nikita Khrushchev, who succeeded Stalin as USSR’s leader, mentioned a higher number: 20 million. Essentially, this is the number that became the official evaluation for the rest of the Soviet era – Leonid Brezhnev adhered to it too, but added “more than” to the 20 million casualties.


https://www.rbth.com/history/330625-soviet-citizens-died-world-war-statistics
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 No.355038

>>355033
8 million Soviet victims of Nazi aggression.
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 No.355040

>>355033
>- Around 12 million soldiers were killed in the battlefield, captured (not having returned) or gone missing.

>- The rest (approximately 14,6 million people) were civilians who died in the occupation zones, were forcefully moved to Germany (and did not come back) or lost their lives to starvation, illnesses and so on.
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 No.355042

>>355038
The war cost the USSR 27 million lives. Idk wtf you're reading.
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 No.355043

>>355040
You're forgetting the 666 billion Jews that were lost.
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 No.355044

>>355035
>article claims the Soviets invaded Poland
Revisionist garbage, Poland didn't exist when the Soviets reclaimed Western Belarus and Western Ukraine.
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 No.355049

>>355044
Ok? What does that have to do with the rest of the information presented? You get triggered by 3 words and then your brain shuts off?

>Nevertheless, the official 7-million estimate of casualties didn’t last long, as most Soviet people believed that number to be too low. In 1965, Nikita Khrushchev, who succeeded Stalin as USSR’s leader, mentioned a higher number: 20 million. Essentially, this is the number that became the official evaluation for the rest of the Soviet era – Leonid Brezhnev adhered to it too, but added “more than” to the 20 million casualties.


The Soviets themselves claimed more than 20 million.
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 No.355051

>>355049
>What does that have to do with the rest of the information presented?
It puts the credibility of the article into question.
>The Soviets themselves claimed more than 20 million.
Khrushchev lied about a lot of things, why should I believe him on this?
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 No.355063

>>355027
>Stalin would of had you face the wall traitor.
No, he wouldn't. No amount of purposefully misconstrued propaganda which you wholly injest regarding the actual reasoning for the arrests you mention will change the fact that Stalin himself acknowledged the Holocaust, particualrly in the larger context of the genocide the Nazis perpetuated throughout Eastern Europe. Stalin would likely have you shot instead.
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 No.355066

>>354720
This is actually unironically the correct take.
The holocaust happened but reifying the victims and this singular genocide to the extent it is is purely Liberal / Zionist propaganda.
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 No.355067

>>355033
>>355035
>>355040
>>355042
>>355043
>>355049
FYI, the anon you're arguing with is one that believes that Khrushchev collaborated with the west to inflate the numbers in order to make the USSR under Stalin look worse. There was a thread a while back in which he debated this, perhaps he can link it himself.
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 No.355069

>>355063
It's Stalin we're talking about kid, he would of had us both shot.
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 No.355075

>>355066
>The holocaust happened but reifying the victims and this singular genocide to the extent it is is purely Liberal / Zionist propaganda.
Practically everyone here already agrees with this take. The discussion going on now is if the Holocaust actually happend at all.
Also, not to nitpick, but you're using "reifying" incorrectly here. To "accentuate" or "magnify" to an extreme extent is what I'm going to guess you were going for
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 No.355084

>>355075
Why does it have to be any more complex than Jewish people died during the war? Why does it have to be MUH 6 McMillion? Because you can't justify racism and colonization in Israel without it. So you guys who think you're Palestinian supporters who keep propping up this relic notion of LE GRANDEST GENOCIDE IN HISTORY are sabotaging yourselves and the Palestinians. I think Stalin's interpretation is correct; acknowledge that Jews died and may have been targeted, but stay away from esoteric idpol designed to serve as justification for anti-communist Zionist objectives.
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 No.355088

>>355069
In all seriousness, most of the shootings weren't actually ordered by Stalin himself. It's not like he was at his desk, individually reviewing every single arrest and execution performed in the entirety of the USSR. But despite that, I don't think he would still take kindly to the idea of outright denial of the Holocaust.
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 No.355101

>>355075
The Holocaust may happen, but if the numbers are exaggerated then it's for Zionist purposes. Why can Israel be born? Out of those rigged statistics, ofc!
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 No.355108

File: 1625399620090.png ( 127.3 KB , 1200x757 , USSRHungerComparedToTsar.png )

>>353075
Unlike Holocaust, Holodomor doesn't have many photos or first-hand witness accounts about it. And no, ZERO, documents about deliberate starvation. Heck, ukrainians for Holodomor museum used photos from the american Great Depression as a proof, and a lot of photos circulating on the web are all kinds of random photos from: 1922 famine; Austria-Hungary; Great Depression; Poland; South Africa's concentration camps, and shit like this. No fucking photos, basically.

Furthermore, statistics show that USSR's 1932 famine was less devastating than Czar's famines. Green is USSR, red is Empire. Also, Holodomor actually happened in Poland, with ukrainian farmers as a result of 1932-33 drought getting straight up replaced by settler poles due to ukrainians either dying off or getting thrown out from their homes due to unpaid rents. Also, happened in Belarus, with USSR supporting belarusians with weapons, who started killing polish policemen as a result.
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 No.355109

>>355084
>He thinks the problem is the notion that 6 million jews died
<That’s what he takes issue with
<Not the fact that they never mention that 11-20 million other people died
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 No.355118

>>355088
I don't deny that Jews died. I do however refuse to accept that we know how many died, or even a figure that would have the slightest legitimacy, considering we don't know how many people died in any other mass casualty of the war, such as Dresden for example. The death count at Dresden has ranged as low as 25,000, and as high as 750,000. You see there's a massive tug-of-war that ensues after a mass casualty event, where the offending party claims the lowest number plausible, and the victimized party claims the highest number. To assume this hasn't also occurred with the Holocaust would be gross stupidity on someone's behalf.

Anyway, blah blah Stalin dindu nuffin. We know. He was a chubby angelic cherub shooting arrows of love in people's butts.
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 No.355136

File: 1625400607080-0.png ( 238.98 KB , 1024x763 , 1024px-Expulsion_judios-en….png )

File: 1625400607080-1.png ( 25.89 KB , 627x458 , jewishexpulsions.png )

>>355075
>Practically everyone here already agrees with this take. The discussion going on now is if the Holocaust actually happend at all.
Not really. Even 4chan/pol/ doesn't claim no Jews died. The arguments I see is that Jews were simply interned like Japanese were interned and then they died because of hunger and disease as many non-Jew Germans were dying of hunger and disease towards the end of the war as The Allies bombed supply chains.

What would've happened to The Japanese interned if America started to be bombed and invaded?

The Nazis at first wanted to simply expel the Jews which is what almost every European country had done at some point in there history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

>The Madagascar Plan was a proposal by the Nazi German government to forcibly relocate the Jewish population of Europe to the island of Madagascar. Franz Rademacher, head of the Jewish Department of the German Foreign Office, proposed the idea in June 1940, shortly before the Fall of France. The proposal called for the handing over of control of Madagascar, then a French colony, to Germany as part of the eventual peace terms.


>The idea of re-settling Polish Jews in Madagascar, then part of the French Empire, was investigated by the Polish government in 1937,[1][2] but the task force sent to evaluate the island's potential determined that only 5,000 to 7,000 families could be accommodated, or even as few as 500 families by some estimates.[a] Because efforts by the Nazis to encourage the emigration of the Jewish population of Germany before World War II were only partially successful, the idea of deporting Jews to Madagascar was revived by the Nazi government in 1940.
>>

 No.355139

>>355084
>Why does it have to be any more complex than Jewish people died during the war? Why does it have to be MUH 6 McMillion?
Because around six million did? "Muh six million" doesn't give Zionists any "power" unless you let it give them power. It's not an actual argument for their actions. It could one million or a hundred million, and it still wouldn't be an argument. The number isn't the actual issue.
>Because you can't justify racism and colonization in Israel without it.
Lol, you want to fucking bet? Again, as I stated here >>354933, you implicitly play by Zionist logic. To you and your criteria, six million would justify racism and colonization. The point though is that it doesn't. No fucking amount would justify it, just as no amount would be too little or too much for Zionists to use it. Israel would be justifying it's actions by whatever manner it could regardless of the Holocaust. Fuck, it doesn't even have to do that, it can just play up "Based Western Chosen of God fighting against the unwashed Islamic hordes of the east" and evangelicals will eat it up. Even fascists and neo-nazis eat it up if Breivik it to be taken as an example.
>So you guys who think you're Palestinian supporters who keep propping up this relic notion of LE GRANDEST GENOCIDE IN HISTORY
Nobody says this. Doesn't make the genocide not real though, or that it shouldn't be treated like other genocides.
>are sabotaging yourselves and the Palestinians.
In what way. I don't think the PFLP is sabotaging itself when it calls out Israel hypocrisy and duplicity in it's use of the Holocaust, while also stating it occured.
>I think Stalin's interpretation is correct; acknowledge that Jews died and may have been targeted, but stay away from esoteric idpol designed to serve as justification for anti-communist Zionist objectives.
What do you think this thread was about? Did you actually fucking think the anons arguing against Holocaust denial were stating that people should take up Zionist idpol? Again, the fucking point is that it's not a justification in the first place. If a genocide occured tomorrow with Azerbaijan exterminating Armenians, would it then "justfy" Armenians exterminating non-Armenian ethnic groups and trying to found a purely Armenian ethnostate? No you faggot, literally nothing would "legitimize" such a thing, not even if millions upon millions perished in the genocide prior. The whole argument is built on a fallacy to begin with, and we should expose it as such rather then try and play this game of "genocide justifies this, genocide justifies that".
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 No.355158

>>355049
>as most Soviet people believed that number to be too low

Bullshit. 7 million is a huge number already. You don't need to inflate it to 1/4 of working age population, 7 million is already large enough.

Did USSR's production dropped after the war to correspond to this loss? Has USSR lost this many jobs? Did anyone official in the West dispute Stalin's claim of 7 million dead, including during Nuremberg trials, when this number was used against nazi defendants, or when USSR reported this number to UN throught 1946-1965? The answer is "no", nobody had any doubts.

20 million figure the Khruschev reported was demographic balance thingie - we take 1941 population and birth and death rates and project them to 1945, resulting in 7 million actual dead + 13 million unborn children (USSR grew ~3 million each year before 1941).

Official khruschevite data of 170 million population in 1946 was a result of 1959 population census, which was done by those same people whom Stalin gulagged for faking data in the first USSR population census of 1937. Those fakers were restored to their statistician jobs in 1953+, so 1956 population census is totally suspect. There's indirect evidence that they lowered actual USSR population by at least ten millions in 1959 - projected birth rates from 1946' 170 million to 1959' 208 million led Soviet planners to believe that USSR would have had 280 millions by 1980, and that obviously didn't happen because fake inflated birthrates (fake 170 to 208 instead of real ~200 to ~220). Just look at this https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/%D0%9D%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%A0.png/1024px-%D0%9D%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%A0.png and project pre-war line to post-war for real pop numbers, and project 1946-1955 up till 1980 for what Soviet planners were led to believe due to fake population statistics.

You'd get better estimations if you could easily access actual numbers of people in employment and in education, but censorship guide for TV and newspapers outright forbade showing it anywhere.
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 No.355166

File: 1625401531797.png ( 311.19 KB , 600x450 , USSRSavingJews.png )

>>355139
It's not 6 million, it's 4.25 million at most simply because of picrelated. Present-day historiography likes to portray Soviet evacuations, that started even before the war, as inefficient and as saving only factories, but not people. Say, Leningrad blockade is portrayed as millions of people starving to death, while in reality those people historians starved to death were mostly relocated somewhere behind the Urals - just like the British were relocating their civilians further north.
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 No.355177

>>355136
>The arguments I see is that Jews were simply interned like Japanese were interned and then they died because of hunger and disease as many non-Jew Germans were dying of hunger and disease towards the end of the war as The Allies bombed supply chains
So pol does agree that the cc survivors exist?
Then its easy just listen to their experiances and then compare them with the average german ,according to pol there were similar right?
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 No.355192

>>355177
Similar to what? Germany as a whole suffered. Obviously being in an internment camp is worse than being a free citizen. The question is about internment vs extermination. Also even if Germany did put into motion an extermination plan for the camps, was it more necessity of circumstance? Taking pictures of starving camp internees, obviously they were being fed before being starved otherwise they would've died long before. How come you didn't touch the Japanese internment part of that post? Again, what do you think would've happened if the war had gone south for America? Would they share limited provision with people they had put into camps and confiscated the property of just as The Germans had done with the Jews?
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 No.355206

>>355192
first of all nice joke ,germans literally suffered zero% of what their victims did(in fact if you actually listen to any of the german survivors you will see how muh rapes were more common among germans than among troops/germans)
As for your second partg of the post there are literally reports of mass exterminations by the survivors ,is pol completely denying that?i thought the survivors were real
my questions for you are simple?
Is pol intrested in changing the definition of genocide?
Is pol claiming there were no antisemites intrested in eliminating the jews running the camps?
Is pol denying that germans were treated like bad children after the war rather than war criminals?
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 No.355210

>>355192
Sorry fam, I will never pity the Krauts between the years 1939 and 1945, simple as
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 No.355212

>>355206
I dunno. I'm not a pol expert. How come you can't answer one point in the first post you replied to and reiterated in the second?

>What would've happened to The Japanese interned if America started to be bombed and invaded?


>How come you didn't touch the Japanese internment part of that post? Again, what do you think would've happened if the war had gone south for America? Would they share limited provision with people they had put into camps and confiscated the property of just as The Germans had done with the Jews?
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 No.355217

>>355212
>whatabout
>whatabout
Lol what if albanians genocided the khmer tier question
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 No.355219

>>355217
So you have no answer to the question?
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 No.355224

>>355219
i am not an american but if the americans did the holocaust then it whould be a genocide
Although how is this shit even similar
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 No.355225

>>355224
>Although how is this shit even similar
They did the exact same as The Germans. They confiscated the property of The Japanese and then put them in camps. The only difference is they were never invaded.
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 No.355226

>>355118
>I do however refuse to accept that we know how many died, or even a figure that would have the slightest legitimacy, considering we don't know how many people died in any other mass casualty of the war, such as Dresden for example.
It's an approximation based on the best information we have, which is how most numbers are tallied. Dresden casualties also gave approximations that are at this point rather reliable, or as reliable as they're going to be.
>The death count at Dresden has ranged as low as 25,000, and as high as 750,000.
No, the actual death count was always near 25,000. The figures which go all the way up to 500,000 (I've never heard 750,000) are actually inflated with no actual foundation to them in terms of any kind of record study or population data comparison which even the Holocaust and other mass casualty every have at a minimum.
>You see there's a massive tug-of-war that ensues after a mass casualty event, where the offending party claims the lowest number plausible, and the victimized party claims the highest number. To assume this hasn't also occurred with the Holocaust would be gross stupidity on someone's behalf.
No doubt, but that's mainly an issue in the early days (or rather years) after such event. We've gotten to the point however where we have an array of numbers based on the data thats actually available and collected that we can make an approximation on the actual amount dead, and it's about six million. You could say somewhere between five million and seven million, but it's functionally the same thing.
>Anyway, blah blah Stalin dindu nuffin. We know. He was a chubby angelic cherub shooting arrows of love in people's butts.
How did you go from "Stalin would have agreed with me, anyone who doesn't deny the Holocaust is a traitor to the USSR" to "Well, Stalin's not perfect guys, stop treating him as like he dindu nuffin".
>>355136
>Not really. Even 4chan/pol/ doesn't claim no Jews died. The arguments I see is that Jews were simply interned like Japanese were interned and then they died because of hunger and disease as many non-Jew Germans were dying of hunger and disease towards the end of the war as The Allies bombed supply chains.
This is not what only occured, thats not what only happend in the camps, and such treatment like you are stating occured even prior to the allies bombing supply chains. And as stated earlier, the Nazis were very much aware of what they were doing when they deprived the Jews of their basic needs to survive. Those who weren't simply killed directly once deportation was off the table were entirely expendable nuisances that were at best good for labour, with those who were "excess" towards that need being entirely unneeded parasites which only took up space, paper work, and supplies, and so subject to disposal. It's just extermination by extra steps, and better they die then the logistics of deportation at that point.
>What would've happened to The Japanese interned if America started to be bombed and invaded?
If the Americans decided that the Japanese-Americans should starve to death in those camps because they were expendable vermin that they could care less about if they disappeared off of the face of the earth, and continued to keep them there while placing their lives above them, then that would be extermination.
>The Nazis at first wanted to simply expel the Jews which is what almost every European country had done at some point in there history.
At first, and by literally collaborating with Zionists.
>Muh Madagascar Plan
Do you think I'm fucking new you idiot? I know what the Madagascar Plan is. I also know Nazi Germany collaborated with domestic Zionsits to send many to Israel. But this doesn't change the fact that both inevitably became untenable, and extermination began seeming more and more like a sufficient option.
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 No.355231

File: 1625403578485-0.jpg ( 1.26 MB , 2560x1707 , 160409-kutsukake-canada-ja….jpg )

File: 1625403578486-2.jpg ( 136.16 KB , 1920x1080 , Japanese-Internment.jpg )

File: 1625403578486-3.jpg ( 131.33 KB , 950x830 , kzpow-vitt01s.jpg )

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 No.355237

>>355166
>It's not 6 million, it's 4.25 million at most simply because of picrelated. Present-day historiography likes to portray Soviet evacuations, that started even before the war, as inefficient and as saving only factories, but not people. Say, Leningrad blockade is portrayed as millions of people starving to death, while in reality those people historians starved to death were mostly relocated somewhere behind the Urals - just like the British were relocating their civilians further north.
Again, six million is an approximation because we also have reports and calculation methods that puts it higher. Thus you have multiple numbers using multiple methods. Six million is around the middle of all those, and because it's about what the Nazis themselves admitted to, it has quite a bit of sticking to it.
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 No.355266

>>355192
>Similar to what? Germany as a whole suffered. Obviously being in an internment camp is worse than being a free citizen. The question is about internment vs extermination. Also even if Germany did put into motion an extermination plan for the camps, was it more necessity of circumstance?
Anon, that's still fucking extermination. If you decide that an ethnic population that you have previously stated to be nothing more then vermin and parasites that the world would be better off having dead are disposable in comparison to "your" population, that is an act of carrying out a genocide. Put as many "steps" as you want, but that's what it is.
>Taking pictures of starving camp internees, obviously they were being fed before being starved otherwise they would've died long before. How come you didn't touch the Japanese internment part of that post? Again, what do you think would've happened if the war had gone south for America? Would they share limited provision with people they had put into camps and confiscated the property of just as The Germans had done with the Jews?
They likely would have let them die and possibly even executed them to "preserve" themselves, looking at the Japanese as subhuman vermin and parasites who were better off dead. And this would be an extermination, a genocide. At no point did they need to be in said camps, and the people in charge decided that given that the world would be better off without them anyway, that they were then disposable and could be exterminated. Did you really think using the Japanese in America would make this different?
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 No.355283

>>355266 (Me)
And btw, if you deny that such a thing would be a program of extermination and genocide, then you may as well deny that any genocide as being such, because many, many genocides have been that of an argument that a given ethnic population isn't worth it, that they're a hazard and deleterious to society, that they function as nothing but a drain and have to go, and are kick started by events which worsen conditions and make the "relevance" of such rhetoric more "prominent", whether it be a severe economic downturn or the conditions of a war.
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 No.355288

>>353015
Supposedly 6 gogazillion Yids were gassed by saint Hitler yet there were more than enough of them to infest Palestine and drive the natives out of their homes at gunpoint, really makes you think(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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 No.355298

>>355288
>Supposedly 6 gogazillion Yids were gassed by saint Hitler yet there were more than enough of them to infest Palestine and drive the natives out of their homes at gunpoint, really makes you think
Yes? Where's the contradiction here? Most zionists collaborated with the Nazis to leave Germany and cared little for those left, and post WW2 permitted them to seize the minds of various dysphoria and play them to their benefit. The Nazis were unironically the best thing to happen to Zionists, as it created the conditions to get more Jews to move out of Europe and into what would become Israel.
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 No.355301

>>355298
Yeah! Perfect argument! The Nazis are behind the creation of Israel, I'll tell you what.
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 No.355307

File: 1625406223371.jpg ( 171.68 KB , 640x360 , 1625385436162.jpg )

>>355301
>The Nazis are behind the creation of Israel, I'll tell you what.
More or less, yeah. Are you denying the role they played which culminated in it's eventual creation after all was said and done?
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 No.355358

>>355307
Israel also secretively protected and employed prominent nazis after the war. Not to mention the saturation of Nazis in the new NATO order that was also propping up Israel. It was zionists and the nazis vs communists and the national liberation movements after ww2
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 No.355402

>>355358
>LE NAZIS DID PISSRAHELL BECAUSE… THEY JUST DID IT OK?

Meanwhile in the real world the faggot shabbos goy Stalin was the first to recognize Pissrahell as a country
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 No.355415

File: 1625410561261.png ( 37.33 KB , 300x226 , aniki.png )

focusing on the jewish deaths in the holocaust while not acknowledging slavic, gypsy and other deaths under the eugenics and ethnic programs by the nazis contributes to holocaust denial, stop fetishizing the jews and stop embracing the jewish victimization a lot more than just the jews were murdered in the holocaust
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 No.356243

>>355402
>Meanwhile in the real world the faggot shabbos goy Stalin was the first to recognize Pissrahell as a country
This has been explained before multiple times already. The west was already going to make Israel a thing, so the USSR voted in support as well to try and cultivate favor with some of the latent communist elements in it who themselves already closely worked with the Palestinians. It was a realpolitik move to try and move it away from the west and rob it of an ally. The USSR still maintained it's position against Zionism even in the context of the new state though. Was this a mistake? You could say so, but it had a certain context to it that can't be ignored.
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 No.356245

>>353015
>nazis had deliberately made propaganda films of those camps portraying them as resorts for jews

Wait, the nazis didn't openly brag about the Holocaust?
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 No.356247

>>355415
It's a little late for that. The other groups you mentioned don't have powerful lobbies in the US and Europe who can get politicians to do their bidding. Here in the United States they're going state by state, convincing legislatures to enact new laws that require kids to have to complete 2 full semesters in holocaust indroctrination, with individual classes devoted to the subject. I'm glad I'm not in school anymore, because I couldn't imagine sitting there for an entire semester being required by law to deny that anyone suffered besides Jews. Creepy af.
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 No.356250

>>356245
The Nazis both bragged about the Holocaust, and didn't brag about it.The Nazis bragged, but also kept the death camps hidden, and meticulously destroyed evidence which they wanted to keep from Allied hands and eyes.
Hasbara culture entitles someone to make shit up as they go along, and contradict themselves, because when their arguments fall apart they can demonize the other party by claiming they're antisemitic, and then end the argument.
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 No.356254

>>355307
It's a bullshit idea. There are New York Times articles from the 1800s that warn Russia is exterminating all it's Jews we need a homeland for Jews. Ever since the Zionist movement was founded, they began talking about how the Jews were being genocided, in hopes of realizing the Zionist dream of a Jewish State. They were constantly looking for any way to claim they were being genocided, and then along came the Russian propagandists who filled in the blanks and invented death camp roller coasters and masturbation machines.
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 No.356256

>>353099
This whole thread is samefagging probably by the OP himself or some discord kiddies "raiding"
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 No.356264

>>356250
The Nazis didn't particularly hide that the political prisoners were being killed. To the Nazi way of thinking, political prisoners were supposed to be killed, and do otherwise was craziness. The denials were told like telling a child that there are no monsters under the bed, because that is how Nazis would have seen people who can't handle the reality of war.

This denial only gets picked up because after the war, intellectuals started to revise history to scrub out the exact reasons why the Nazis did conduct the Final Solution. The concept that Nazism had definite origins had to be replaced with a myth that Nazism was the result of bad juju evil spirits, and that the only possible explanation was that Nazis were killing out of some deep-seated psychological weakness. The Nazi extermination of political prisoners was very deliberate, as was their practice of slavery. No slaver in history has ever been ignorant of how slavery was maintained. Whether you think it was morally justified is not particularly important. To this Nazi ethos, the Jews and communists were described as this demonic force that had to be wiped out. From the start, the war was sold as a crusade against Judeo-Bolshevism, and the whole fascist system was premised on eliminating all threats to the privatized state, rooting out subversives. All inside the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state. Fascism openly espouses that and made its argument for such a state and a world-system. A fascist would not breach that out of some sentiment. Eugenics as a religious creed openly scorned sentimental defense of the week, and this is written explicitly in Galton. Nazi eugenics was slightly distinct from the Galtonian creed, but not fundamentally distinct. Galtonians were gushing with praise at Nazi eugenics and extermination programs, and the extermination of political prisoners is entirely in line with eugenics as a totalizing social system. It would be quite impossible to not carry out such a mission, if Jews and communists were identified as political enemies and opponents of the eugenic creed especially.

This particular denial argument rests on the belief that the Nazis were purely motivated by an instinctive loathing of other races that had no origin. It requires implicitly accepting the Nazi view of race-theory and the race struggle in its most distilled form. Even many Nazi intellectuals were typically smarter than that. What we see today among the neo-Hitlerites is that they have been able to distill race-mysticism. You're seeing the most extreme of Nazi mysticism being seeded, and this seeding of Ariosophy cults happened before and after WW2. If someone has accepted on the sly this "immortal truth" of what race means, then it follows that they are amenable to this denial story and that they would also consider deceit around their actions to be morally correct and a demonstration of intellectual power over the lower races.
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 No.356272

>>356256
>Unique IPs: 72
You know you can verify how many people commented on a thread, right?
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 No.356275

>>356272
Yes, I was talking about the beginning of the thread
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 No.356277

>>353098
>And the Holocaust was a conspiracy made by the western powers and communists to undermine the only nation that was actually changing things for the better
Look at him everyone. Look at him and laugh.
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 No.356283

File: 1625448501320.jpg ( 2.77 MB , 2433x3733 , f1ee0291cd38bc9cd9984afeea….jpg )

>>356254
>It's a bullshit idea. There are New York Times articles from the 1800s that warn Russia is exterminating all it's Jews we need a homeland for Jews.
Sure, but none of the pogroms ever hit the severity of the Holocaust, or created the massive flight which fed into the creation Israel like the Holocaust did. The Tsar in the end didn't act in a way which created Israel, the Nazis did.
>Ever since the Zionist movement was founded, they
began talking about how the Jews were being genocided, in hopes of realizing the Zionist dream of a Jewish State.
Yes, and Jews were arguably being massacred and suppressed, but yet still the Zionists lacked the mass flight they needed. Most Jews were still fine with living in Poland or Russia or elsewhere.
>They were constantly looking for any way to claim they were being genocided, and then along came the Russian propagandists who filled in the blanks and invented death camp roller coasters and masturbation machines.
Just because they were looking for reasons to be genocided, didn't mean a genocide didn't eventually occur regardless. "Russian propagandists" didn't need to fill in any blanks, what the Nazis did was reason enough, no matter if it was one million or six million. The dysphoria was agitated, the Jewish population upended, and that created the perfect condtions for Zionsits to size the opportunity. No "Russian propagandist" invented "death camp rollercoasters" or "masturbation machines" either, as such things were unreliable stories that no one believes in the first place; they were practically tall tales and myths that were dismissed as such, and which most holocaust survivors stated clearly as false. It's not uncommon to see such stories emerge, and this is the case for most traumatic events. However, cherry picking these does not make the entirety of the event false.
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 No.356296

File: 1625449549994.png ( 559.32 KB , 435x574 , 1601338291903.png )

>>356283
>Fine. Don't believe the more absurd atrocity propaganda, but do believe the atrocity propaganda that I want you to believe.
In a court of law, when a witness has been found to be untruthful in his/her testimony, it is then assumed that the jury should discount EVERYTHING that witness said. The number of false witnesses who've borne false testimony regarding the holocaust is staggering. From fake autobiographies, to celebrities who falsely claimed to have been in a death camp, to Simon Wiesenthal, the largest franchiser of Holocaust museums, the number of fakes involved in this event are staggering. When evidence has been tainted, witnesses have perjured themselves, the only recourse is to declare a mistrial and start over. But that is impossible now given the enormous industry that jews have invented surrounding the Holocaust. Into the bin it goes then.
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 No.356446

>>355012
The author is a centrist /his/torian according to his Imgur profile, so you're not wrong.
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 No.356448

>>355084
This post is why I support Israel now
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 No.356451

>>354898
conspicuous that this hasn't been answered.

anyone else up for becoming a russian revolution denialist for the bants?
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 No.356453

File: 1625455289228.jpg ( 232.17 KB , 1600x900 , C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppD….jpg )

>>356448
>This post is why I support Israel now.
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 No.356462

>>356453
Yeah because you all talk about antisemitism like it's a meme you can't choose to recognize or not based on political convenience. I'm really starting to hate leftoids just as much as rightoids. Might revert to socdem at best
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 No.356471

>>356462
Antisemitism is a fucking meme, antisemites are jokes.
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 No.356477

>>356296
>Fine. Don't believe the more absurd atrocity propaganda, but do believe the atrocity propaganda that I want you to believe.
Where's the proof that what is being stated is atrocity propaganda though? You've only brought up a few accounts that have already been thrown out as being unreliable, and then used that as a way to throw out not even just every possible account given, but all reports and information related to the Holocaust altogether.
>In a court of law, when a witness has been found to be untruthful in his/her testimony, it is then assumed that the jury should discount EVERYTHING that witness said. The number of false witnesses who've borne false testimony regarding the holocaust is staggering. From fake autobiographies, to celebrities who falsely claimed to have been in a death camp, to Simon Wiesenthal, the largest franchiser of Holocaust museums, the number of fakes involved in this event are staggering. When evidence has been tainted, witnesses have perjured themselves, the only recourse is to declare a mistrial and start over. But that is impossible now given the enormous industry that jews have invented surrounding the Holocaust. Into the bin it goes then.
What an absolutely garbage take. When a witness has been found untruthful in their testimony, that discounts THAT witness. In historical study, that means that other accounts made by the person should be taken with a grain of salt in regards to the events they recount. We don't say for example that the Armenian genocide never happend because some accounts may be faulty. The number of false testimonies for every major event is "staggering", that's what you get when it enter the public consciousness of thousand and millions. But most critically, those accounts are generally distinct and unalike. They have little similarity to each other. That does not however make all accounts untruthful. Do many accounts have there biases? Yes, but thats true for literally every historical event. Let's say for example we have one witness saying that they saw a dog attacking a man in the street, another saying that it was a cat, and a hundred saying it was a coyote. In all likelihood then, it was a coyote, or at the very least the idea of it being a coyote should be given a good amount of credibility and be looked into, which in the case of executions by shooting or gas chambers, very much were.
>Image
Can you provide a source for this? Also, Christie is wrong in this. There is actual proof regarding the presence of cyanide at the camps and the existence of gas chambers. This at best seems like a sensationalized article that doesn't recount the details of the case.
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 No.356480

>>354898
It was an established event recorded by academia, governments, and media WHILE it occurred. Raul Hilberg says there's no scientific proof of gas chambers, but we know there was because……blurp….burp….code words……fart……
The public didn't believe in gas chambers either by the 1950s, and also didn't support in by a majority. Which is why fiction writers and Hollywood screenwriters took up the cause, and starting cranking out works of fiction designed at changing public perception. After the success of the book and movie Exodus in 1958 and 1960, you had sparkly American movie stars like Paul Newman in fictionalized portrayals which bolstered both public support for Israel and the holocaust, in spite of John F Kennedy's opposition to Zionism and hasbara culture.
The 1960s & 70s saw the birth of the Holocaust industry, with hundreds of books and films based on the now growing tale. Jerzy Kosinski invented a persona for himself as a death camp survivor, and became a sensation in literary circles and Hollywood high society, until it came to light that he'd actually lived with Polish Christians during the war, and had given himself a prison camp tattoo. Kosinski was one of many who used the holocaust tale to achieve personal gain and further hasbara objectives.
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 No.356506

>>356480
>It was an established event recorded by academia, governments, and media WHILE it occurred.
Communist propaganda. What scientific proof can you offer that this was the case? What test can I conduct to demonstrate that the Russian Revolution occurred?

You expect me to trust governments, academia and the media - but there's precedent for communists taking over all 3! Of course the communists are going to say the revolution happened, if it didn't their schemes would never get off the ground!
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 No.356509

>>356480
So are you denying that there were detention facilities for political enemies? What is it? All you've done is present "doubt doubt doubt" with hints to appeal to the eugenist predatory instinct. It would strain credulity to acknowledge the existence of forced labor and internment, and then claim the Nazis were stopped purely by some sentimental reason to not use mass extermination. Or is your claim specifically that the Jews were killed, just not by gas chambers, and that if you can prove that gas chambers didn't exist (which you can't), that it means there was no killing at all? It's a lazy argument that requires someone to make glaring omissions from reality about what the Nazis were and what their entire regime entailed from the outset. The existence of an opportunist liar is taken as "proof" there was no mass extermination at all, except your claim that everyone acknowledging the prisons lied is ludicrous. You picked one case and impose that on the vast numbers of credible stories of internment, slave labor, extermination, and so on. Even in your denial stories, you have to include hints that the mass extermination should have happened, with a wink to those who are initiated into the Hitlerite and eugenist creed. It's all very transparent.

Like I said, you're taking advantage of the revisionists who had to obscure the financiers that supported Hitler, who had to create a new narrative of how communism was "just as bad as Nazism". It was necessary to make the extermination "feel" fictional and distant, that it couldn't possibly have actually happened and certainly couldn't happen again. And that's why the revisionist histories were especially focused on making the gas chambers feel lurid and unreal. At the time, the use of extermination camps was not that far removed from the ordinary. The use of concentration camps, the mass starvation of those deemed of a lesser race or class, was not unique to the Nazis, but neither was it completely normalized - that was only possible in the eugenist mindset, to consider such mass extermination morally righteous in of itself. Even many of the Germans who carried out the killing had a certain moral compass that the purest eugenist fanatics did not, they could understand what the killing meant and why it was being done. The neo-Hitlerites would not want to repeat any such doubt or insight. They want the purest fanaticism, to portray mass exterminations for the eugenic creed as the highest virtue, and your revisionist history is in line with a much larger eugenist push to revise history and humanity as a whole.
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 No.356525

>>356480
>It was an established event recorded by academia, governments, and media WHILE it occurred. Raul Hilberg says there's no scientific proof of gas chambers, but we know there was because……blurp….burp….code words……fart……
I asked for a source anon. It didn't seem like he denied there being proof for the gas chambers either, just that he was unaware of any autopsy on bodies the fresh bodies themselves.
>The public didn't believe in gas chambers either by the 1950s, and also didn't support in by a majority. Which is why fiction writers and Hollywood screenwriters took up the cause, and starting cranking out works of fiction designed at changing public perception. After the success of the book and movie Exodus in 1958 and 1960, you had sparkly American movie stars like Paul Newman in fictionalized portrayals which bolstered both public support for Israel and the holocaust, in spite of John F Kennedy's opposition to Zionism and hasbara culture.
Most of the publics knowledge about the Holocaust in general was limited in the years following. Sensationalized movies and fiction writers though, which exist to dramatize any event, do not in anyway descredit the actual events themselves. The John F Kennedy thing is also a complete lie, Kennedy was openly supportive of Zionism and was an imperialist through and through.
>The 1960s & 70s saw the birth of the Holocaust industry, with hundreds of books and films based on the now growing tale. Jerzy Kosinski invented a persona for himself as a death camp survivor, and became a sensation in literary circles and Hollywood high society, until it came to light that he'd actually lived with Polish Christians during the war, and had given himself a prison camp tattoo. Kosinski was one of many who used the holocaust tale to achieve personal gain and further hasbara objectives.
How does Kosinski being a fraud and a plagiarist actually disprove the Holocaust though? No one here denies the Holocaust industry, what we reject is the idea that the Holocaust never happend. All you've been able to offer up is that it's used in a way to sell books and films, and that Zionists will abuse it for personal gain. You haven't actually shown the actual holocaust, not the sensationalist and dramatized Hollywood retelling, to be false though.
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 No.356527

>>356525
*any autopsy on the fresh bodies themselves.
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 No.356540

>>356525
>Most of the publics knowledge about the Holocaust in general was limited in the years following.
False. The public learned very quickly of concentration camps and what was done to political prisoners, and that a lot of people were dead. If that didn't happen, then what evidence did the Nuremberg trials have to show? Those happened very quickly after the war, and details about the Nazi war crimes would have been made very public. The trials weren't some scurrilous trial held in secret that the Joos used to twist public perception. Everyone was aware that the Nazis were being hanged for war crimes, and what those specific crimes were. Allied war propaganda during the war insinuated those crimes before the war was over, and Allied armies encountered those camps. It was not hard to figure out what was being done, and none of it was in the immediate aftermath of war a "mythology". The mythology of the Holocaust, the attempts to rebrand it as something else, did only arise years after the war - but you're arguing against that mystification, rather than the actual basis in historical events. That was well known in 1945. Whether people believed the stories is a different question - but for your revisionist theory to hold true, you have to implicitly assume that the "correct" position is Nazi apologism. It's the old "we're actually the secret majority and everyone who disagrees with us is a degenerate Jew-lover". American opinion on the Nazis before and during the war was nowhere near unanimous disapproval for the war or approval for the Nazis. There were a lot of Americans who saw the Nazis as evil, even if they thought that America had no business in European wars. You have to implicitly accept the Nazi version of the Lost Cause myth, and that's what you're playing to (just as the Lost Causers over the US Civil War clung to Nazi eugenics the whole time).
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 No.356550

>>356477
>Let's say for example we have one witness saying that they saw a dog attacking a man in the street, another saying that it was a cat, and a hundred saying it was a coyote. In all likelihood then, it was a coyote, or at the very least the idea of it being a coyote should be given a good amount of credibility and be looked into
THAT JUST MEANS ALL ONE HUNDRED OF THEM ARE PART OF THE VAST FELINE CONSPIRACY!!!
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 No.356553


>>356525
Oops, I thought you were the denier. But my point about the truth of the Holocaust still stands. The news of the concentration camps hit immediately as the Americans advanced into Europe, and their purpose was not difficult to discern. The particular details, notes between Nazi officials, that did have to come out in the trials, but no one at the time could pretend that the concentration camps and mass exterminations didn't happen. Seeing emaciated prisoners and crematoria, and knowing what the Nazis thought about eugenics and what is to be done to political enemies, made it very easy to associate the crematoria with extermination. It was such an easy association that the Nazi apologists didn't even try arguing the fact of the camps' existence and, at first, didn't deny the death. The whole Nazi apologist routine from the start was oozing the belief that what they did was entirely in the right, and daring anyone to tell them otherwise. And that's the trick - eugenics thrives in edgelording and pushing boundaries, in all its forms. You either had to acknowledge the apologists as monsters and treat them accordingly, or you treated them as humans and gave their bullshit sanction. That's the origin of the "tolerance paradox" (which isn't a real paradox, any decent society would have told apologists to fuck off, as most people did until eugenism resumed its PR offensive a couple decades later).
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 No.356583

>>356506
You don't need scientific proof to prove a revolution asshead. You do need it to prove that a crime occurred, or that 6 million people were genocided. Where are the bone fragments at Auschwitz? Did they Nazis meticulously sweep them up with brooms and vacuums prior to the liberation? Where are the mass grave sites in other areas? A genocide leaves behind empirical evidence which can be analyzed by forensic science as is the case in Cambodia, Rwanda…but not in the case of muh 6 McMillions.

>Hilberg- no scientific proof of gas chambers.

>Science- no bone fragments or human remains at Auschwitz
>Hollywood- but what about all these films that made you cry? Doesn't that count for anything schmuck?
>You- ok, yes i believe. I'm gud boi.
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 No.356586

I'll tell you retards something else. We were still finding bone fragments and dried human splatter on building surrounding the WTC for 10 YEARS AFTER the 9/11 attack. That attack killed 3,000 people. Imagine 1.5 million being killed in a confined space such as a camp, and no bone fragments or human remains existing beyond the shutdown of the camp. It's impossible.
>>

 No.356587

>>356583
Why would there be bone fragments if they were cremated genius?
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 No.356589

>>356587
Well that's another problem gimpy. You see, even with modern technology, the cremation process cannot turn people into powder ash the way Simon Wiesenthal said the smoke stacks at Auschwitz did. The process still leaves bone fragments, which are collected by a crematory technicians, and discarded. The process of cremation is not perfect, and does not turn skeletal remains into silt or ash that would vanish from a smokestack after being emitted.
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 No.356592

>>356583
>You do need it to prove that a crime occurred
Revolting against the legitimate government of the Tsar is a pretty fucking BIG crime, try reading the law some time.

You ask many questions, but you haven't yet answered the simple question: What scientific proof is there that the Russian revolution occurred?
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 No.356597

>>356589
"The corpses of the murdered were burned in the crematoria. Sonderkommando prisoners used wooden mallets to crush not fully burnt bones into powder. Everything was then loaded onto trucks and carried to the banks of the Vistula river, beyond the woods in Birkenau, where it was shoveled straight into the waters of the river. Human ashes were also dumped into the Soła river near the Auschwitz I camp, and into holes and depressions in the terrain. They were used as a base for building roads or reinforcing dikes, and as an additive to the compost heaps used on the camp farms. Significant deposits of human ashes are extant in the vicinity of the crematoria, the burning pits, and in the clearings and at the edge of the woods in Birkenau."

Sounds like a reasonable explanation to me?
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 No.356600

>>356583
The evidence of exterminations was so great that you didn't need to pick up the bone fragments to "prove" that they came from a crematoria to make the connection. There were mass graves of course, but the point of cremation was to dispose of the remains - not so much because the Nazis were trying to be super secret, but because the fatalities would pile up to the point where cremation was the only way to dispose of the remains. Are you going to deny that the crematoria exist, too?

The whole argument rests on believing that the Holocaust is OMGSCARYFICTION, when at the time the idea that Nazis would exterminate political enemies was perfectly in line with stated Nazi ideology. And again, the evidence of concentration camps, slave labor, and extermination was not manufactured in secret and brought to the tribunal through sneakery. If the allied troops conquering Germany had proof that the concentration camp story was a gigantic forgery, a whole lot more US Army soldiers would have come forward and called bullshit - because there were certainly people in the US immediately after the war who wanted to believe the Holocaust was bullshit. So was there a vast Jewish conspiracy among the armed forces to create a fictitious genocide, or are all the soldiers unwitting dupes? There were a lot of soldiers who thought fighting in Europe was bullshit and America had no reason to be there, but curiously few were saying that the stories of concentration camps were lies - because the concentration camps were already well documented and most Germans knew full well what was happening.
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 No.356605

>>356592
You need scientific evidence to prove a crime existed in a murder trial shill boy. I know you knew what I was saying, but of course you're now pretending that your false equivalence has merit.
This is what I meant earlier when I talked about the cringe that accompanies creating a hypothesis based on a arbitrary number- you then have to work twice as hard at establishing credibility than someone who decides to embrace rationality. This results in cringe boy hijinks like comparing the crime of insurrection with the crime of 1.5 million murders.
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 No.356607

>>356600
>So was there a vast Jewish conspiracy among the armed forces to create a fictitious genocide
You know what their answer's gonna be.
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 No.356609

>>356605
if communism supposedly killed 100 million (the black book of communism) then the crime of insurrection against the tsar was ultimately the greatest crime in human history
and yet, despite this, you persist in failing to explain what scientific proof could be used to demonstrate it took place!
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 No.356610

>>356597
Ok sauce?
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 No.356611

>>356609
I was there, it def happened
You know that one picture? I'm the second dude on the left
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 No.356612

>>356610
http://70.auschwitz.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=290&Itemid=179&lang=en

I'm sure you could trace that claim back to its origins if you so cared
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 No.356613

>>356611
Omg totes respect brah. And you know what? I really don't need empirical evidence of a holocaust after hearing your testimony. Here's a book deal, and Spielberg wants to pick up your story for a feature film.
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 No.356614

>>356613
Just because Spielberg made a film about it doesn't mean it didn't happen
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 No.356615

>>356611
now we've got people falsifying evidence - itself proof that the event was a falsehood. this man's testimony should be stricken from the record, and all testimony like it similarly disregarded.

(the judge, awaiting a reply from the revolution believing holocaust denier): "silence in the courtroom silence in the street, the biggest twit in england is just about to speak!"
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 No.356617

>>356615
How do we know that YOU happened?
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 No.356618

>>356617
look behind you
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 No.356619

File: 1625465581950.png ( 836.37 KB , 1024x683 , C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppD….png )

>>356612
Why haven't you? Confirmation bias? Picrel is a wooden mallet. Sonderkommando put on aprons and smocks, and crushed bone fragments with these, for all 1.5 million Auschwitz deaths. They must have looked like Keebler elves. But why didn't they use a vice, or a rock crusher? Well because Holocaust fable writers are not very bright, and they don't need to be- you'll buy whatever jenkem they dream up and slap on a page.

(wooden mallets are for making furniture, imagine using this to grind the millions of pounds of bone fragments)
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 No.356621

>>356453
Real talk.
Is Sacha a zionist?
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 No.356622

File: 1625465629964.jpg ( 72.74 KB , 1468x1468 , 1489284453797.jpg )

>>356618
OH GOD HE'S GOT A
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 No.356624

File: 1625465692089.webm ( 2.7 MB , 426x240 , clown pie.webm )

>>356619
>imagine using this to grind the millions of pounds of bone fragments
is this an invitation to bonk you on your bonehead?
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 No.356626

Because moddern genocide history stinks of a big fat lie of omission that taints the whole story. Before anything, yes 6 million died. BUT NOT ONLY 6 MILLION. There seems to be a very active effort to talk ONLY about the jews. Probably most burgers at this point won't even know the true extent of Nazi crimes. Because first of all, the genocide didn't start against the Jews, but against very own German nationals - the prisoners who formed the first lagers. Then other fellow Germans - political prisoners. Jews of course, also came in, but not only. Poles, Balts, Ukrainians, Russians - all too vere activelly genocided for their resistance in the concentration lagers - places that not only killed, but worked people to death. As slaves, worse than slaves in fact. All to churn them into mulch and squeeze out all their labour for profit. Profit for who? The fucking German capitalists. And not only German. For the fucking Bush family and all other of their American investor filth. The genocide only in part was an act of hate. Ot was also a massive, inhuman act of capitalist profit extraction, where labour costs were reduced to negative with all the horror that entails. This story would never fucking fly for the West after the war. Of course, easier to just lump it all up to some idealist notion of hate.
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 No.356627

>>353015
Gas chambers with wooden doors lmao
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 No.356628

>>356621
You know it bb.
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 No.356629

File: 1625465844698.jpg ( 31.69 KB , 1280x720 , borat.jpg )

>>356628
Dissapointed but not suprised
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 No.356634

>>356619
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/pa10007

I found this, since you're too lazy to do research, I'm sure you'll now say this is fake also. I'm sure in some places it was done manually as well. It's not as if all 6 million were killed at once, it took years and years. Not all holocaust victims were cremated anyway, many were simply dumped in mass graves, many of which have been found.

>>356627
Common 'misconception', the wooden doors were part of the Soviet reconstruction
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 No.356676

>>353055
Because believing the holocaust is real is liberal? Drink bleach retard.
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 No.356678

Franz: "Hans, why are we deporting all of these people again?"

Hans: "For forced labor."

F: "There are loads of infirm, children, mentally and physically disabled, and elderly on these lists. What sort of labor?"

H: "Building supply lines, railroads, canals, you know real ditch-digging kind of stuff, typically very physically demanding tasks that are more suited to people with the exact opposite traits and disposition than those on these lists."

F: "…."

H: "And there will be hundreds of thousands of them. Also there's a war going on so disease and food shortages are probably gonna be common."

F: "This just sounds like murder with extra steps."

H: "Oh so you call whenever a selectively targeted demographic is forcibly put into a slave labor camp then routinely denied things essential to keeping them alive murder huh?"
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 No.356679

holocaust denial seems to me like a way for people who really, really want to make themselves look like they are "clever" to other people without really actually doing anything that really challenges the status quo in any way. Like even if the holocaust wasn't real, that doesn't make the nazis good lel.
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 No.356682

>>353273
when did we start having pro-turk faggots here?
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 No.356689

>>356583
>bone fragments at Auschwitz
There are. This isn't even a controversial thing. In fact, there was a situation years ago in which preservers were running into the issue of tourists walking around the ash laden areas and picking up bone fragments on their shoes.
>mass grave sites
Literally all over the place from Poland to Ukraine. The uncovering of them is relatively common, and have continually been discovered both right after the war and decades later.
>Hilberg- no scientific proof of gas chambers.
Where is the actual source of this? You only have a screencap of an alleged article. And he doesn't state that, he just clarifies that it's a subject of historical study, and that he's not aware of direct autopsies of fresh bodies.
>Science- no bone fragments or human remains at Auschwitz
This is just a lie.
>Hollywood- but what about all these films that made you cry? Doesn't that count for anything schmuck?
The arguments made had nothing to do with Hollywood movies, and no one used them as evidence.
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 No.356694

>>356679
There are legit people who jump on not out of ideological affinity for the Nazis but because the denier groups are like a home for them, and they are skeptical about any mainstream narrative. I knew people like that in high school, and they were not at all amenable to Nazis but imagined "what if Hitler survived and I met him and it turned out he wasn't actually a bad guy?" This of course is what happens for those of us at the bottom of the social ladder, the sped kids who don't have a place in society. I wasn't one of them exactly, but in that time I was more ambivalent about history. To me at that time, extermination was just a part of war, and the Nazis were pretty up front about exterminating other races. I had the benefit of knowing there were people sympathetic to Nazism alive today, so I heard the revisionist histories early and asked what good it was doing them. But, that's just the thing. You have to believe there is a vast conspiracy to convince the sheeple that there was a Holocaust before you even raise the idea that such a conspiracy exists. I knew there were a decent number of people who didn't feel a bit bad about what happened to the Jews, so that made the denial myths a lot more facile. I might have questioned the exact telling of events, especially with how they were taught (this was just before "clash of civilizations" became the way a lot of liberal Americans viewed history, so yeah learning what they thought about China today was a real "huh" moment).
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 No.356767

>>356679
>even if the holocaust wasn't real
>I support the narrative that gave birth to the colonization of Palestine because it angers play-pretend Nazi adolescents
Nazis aren't making a comeback, but ethnofascism is. When the last trace of an indigenous people is wiped out in Palestine, you can celebrate knowing you've angered the sandbox Nazis you brave bolshevik you.
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 No.356793

>>356689
>There are. This isn't even a controversial thing. In fact, there was a situation years ago in which preservers were running into the issue of tourists walking around the ash laden areas and picking up bone fragments on their shoes.
Wow amazing. So even after the Soviet Union rebuilt Auschwitz in 1948, and it was turned into a museum in the 1960s I believe, tourists were still stepping on bone fragments in what decade- the 2000s? 2010s? Source it kid.
>Where is the actual source of this? You only have a screencap of an alleged article. And he doesn't state that, he just clarifies that it's a subject of historical study, and that he's not aware of direct autopsies of fresh bodies.
>I did find the source of this article years ago. It was written by a Toronto paper I believe. Good luck chasing down the source these days, and I'm not going to bother after doing it once already. Google is so fucked up that any search you do now returns a wall of anti-denial resources, and how to 'own' the deniers. Shillberg is definitely on your side, not mine. We can't even have a neutral internet when it comes to this topic.
"No scientific proof" means no scientific proof. We can wiggle our bums around all day trying to wiggle out of what was said, but we know what was said. When Zundel's attorney asked for scientific proof, Hilberg said there isn't any. The man who made the Holocaust his life's study said No proof.
>The arguments made had nothing to do with Hollywood movies, and no one used them as evidence.
Name all the books and films you've consumed that pertain to le Holocaust. Your emotional mind was being manipulated long before you developed into a mature adult. The average American kid now hears about the holocaust by age 10, and in Germany it's age 6.
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 No.356808

>>356767
>I support the narrative that gave birth to the colonization of Palestine because it angers play-pretend Nazi adolescents
Again, this is retarded. The "narrative" doesn't matter, the Nazis actions gave birth to the colonization of Palestine regardless. Even if it was "Muh deportation, muh temporary housing camp, muh only one million executed", it would still be used in the same way.
>Nazis aren't making a comeback, but ethnofascism is. When the last trace of an indigenous people is wiped out in Palestine, you can celebrate knowing you've angered the sandbox Nazis you brave bolshevik you.
You fucking idiot, Israel doesn't get it power from "muh Holocaust". It's a useful tool, but it isn't what permits them to do what they do. When Israeli police are blast through a kids head with a rubber bullet, what's letting them do that isn't them then walking up to the body and retelling Holocaust accounts. Its the fucking imperialist west which permits them to do so, because Israel as a state is useful to them. Even among the populace cheering Israel on today in the west, the rhetoric isn't "remember the Holocaust". Do you think those taking its side on the right would drop it if the Holocaust was announced to be fake tomorrow? No, because Israel is "muh bastion western values" taking it to the muzzies, and that's all that really matters in the ends. Israel is "our guys" against the backwards Islamic hordes attacking us, and that makes them based compared to limp wristed pansies who let the mudslimes in and treat them with kiddie gloves. Seriously dude, who are you trying to lie to? Do you think those kind of people who flip to the side of Palestine if the gas chambers weren't real? No, because that was never the reason to begin with for them.
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 No.356832

>>356808
>The "narrative" doesn't matter.
Ahem, really? Denying this narrative in public is punishable by years in prison in Europe. The narrative doesn't matter bro? It's fucking inscribed in law now. And yes, simply denying Le 6 McMillions IS ENOUGH to be criminally prosecuted. So if you do say 1 million died online in Germany for example, you will be arrested, prosecuted, and sent to prison for years. You guys are a walking contradiction, but then again so is the Holocaust tale.
>Israel doesn't get it power from "muh Holocaust"
100% wrong again. See video. She's a former longtime member of the Knesset who started off right wing and ended her life more compassionately thankfully. She of course knew what she was talking about, because she used the Holocaust to justify colonization. The reason Europe and America fell in line with Hasbara Zionism has everything to do with the Holocaust narrative. Explain to me why President JFK opposed the mossad's relationship with the CIA, opposed Israel's nuclear weapons program, and issued an ultimatum to Davin Ben Gurion that either the Jews play according to UN rules or the USA would invade or launch air strikes on Dimona.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0kWAqZxJVE&t=22s

>Seriously dude, who are you trying to lie to? Do you think those kind of people who flip to the side of Palestine if the gas chambers weren't real? No, because that was never the reason to begin with for them.

It's a start isn't it? It took Israel 40 years to build support for the Holocaust tale, which didn't come to dominate the west's view on Jews until the 1990's, with such propaganda as Shindler's List and other Harveywood favorites. Removing the Holocaust as a weapon of blackmail used against Europe and the USA would greatly benefit a new era where Israelis are forced to behave like the Le Great Democracy they pretend to be.
>>

 No.356840

>>356793
>Wow amazing. So even after the Soviet Union rebuilt Auschwitz in 1948, and it was turned into a museum in the 1960s I believe, tourists were still stepping on bone fragments in what decade- the 2000s? 2010s? Source it kid.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-auschwitz/fight-against-time-to-preserve-auschwitz-idUSL2791329420070131
>I did find the source of this article years ago. It was written by a Toronto paper I believe. Good luck chasing down the source these days, and I'm not going to bother after doing it once already. Google is so fucked up that any search you do now returns a wall of anti-denial resources, and how to 'own' the deniers.
I asked for a source anon. As of right now, there literally no sufficient reason for me to buy it, because it's a screen so without any context of it's origin. If the statements are known as part of the case itself, then you should be able to find it outside of the article.
>Shillberg is definitely on your side, not mine. We can't even have a neutral internet when it comes to this topic.
I'm asking for the full context of the discussion from Hilberg, and even in what is stated in what limited "evidence" you have, it doesn't seem like he's saying there is no proof, just that he is unaware of any body testing.
>"No scientific proof" means no scientific proof. We can wiggle our bums around all day trying to wiggle out of what was said, but we know what was said. When Zundel's attorney asked for scientific proof, Hilberg said there isn't any. The man who made the Holocaust his life's study said No proof.
Again, I want the full context of the actual discussion. He also didn't state there was no proof, as after he stated there was plenty of reports as well as physical and photographic evidence of them existing. To provide "scientific proof" seems to be a confusing question, because it's like asking for "scientific proof" of the battle for Gettysburg occuring. We have evidence of cyanide, or there existence and construction, as well as reports pertaining to them, but is that "scientific" or historical? I doing he's saying there is zero proof of it, wouldn't very well write a tome detailing exactly that.
>Name all the books and films you've consumed that pertain to le Holocaust. Your emotional mind was being manipulated long before you developed into a mature adult. The average American kid now hears about the holocaust by age 10, and in Germany it's age 6.
Of historical fiction? Not many if I'm going to be completely honest. Of historical accounts? Quite a few, but mostly though dry documentaries and boring class room readings when WW2 came up, and it generally was only about a week or so learning about it. The vast majority of what I learned about the Holocaust was after school. In school it's mostly just "The Nazi killed a lot of people, Jews suffered in camps, now fill out the homework paper and we can move on to the rest of WW2 and the US doing cool invasions". They don't even teach you about it in the context of Eastern Europe, and the way they present it to you may make you think that it all just happend in Germany in a few places and nowhere else.
>>

 No.356853

>>356832
Yes nobody knew about the holocaust until the 90s… even though half of the deniers you guys cite were from the 70s or whatever. Fuck are you on about mate?
>>

 No.356860

>>356840
>Your article is fake, mine is real.
Your article states that a linguist declared small white stones to be bones. And this happened no less in an article where both the linguist and the museum's curator were lamenting the lack of shekels in their pockets. Oh anon.
Continuing on in your Reuter's piece, we read that Auschwitz was detonated by the Nazis, flooded with water repeatedly, partially rebuilt several times, including in 1990 when the board of director's got a several million dollar cash infusion, and yet pockets are empty. No shekels left. Look at the bones! Doesn't that make you feel sorry? The bones survived Nazi explosions, and were trampled on by construction workers who rebuilt (built) the gas chambers, yet we tearfully lament those paying customers who trample on dem bones dem bones. Haha. I'll never cease to be amazed at the depravity of scoundrels.
The Nazis left behind the giant hairball, but took most of the cremated remains with them, leaving a few white stones carefully placed around where the tour guides show them to paying customers. That's shoah business folks. There's no business like shoah business!

tl:dr not scientific empirical evidence
>>

 No.356864

>>356860
>tl:dr not scientific empirical evidence
a subject you're an expert in, given your extensive knowledge of the scientific evidence for the Russian revolution not being fake which you refuse to disclose.
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 No.356885

>>356860
It says they're in a pit which is cordoned off to the public, not that they just litter the entire ground of the site. Why do you expect us to be able to present this evidence to you when we're just random people on an imageboard, it's up to you to prove the holocaust is false, not us to prove it's real, it's accepted by all mainstream historians/scientists in the relevant fields/etc.

For god's sake, do you think that they're running Auchwitz just to make money or what? I feel like there's easier ways to improve the East European tourism industry. I mean in your mind are all the staff at the camp in on the conspiracy or what?
>>

 No.356898

>>356832
>Ahem, really? Denying this narrative in public is punishable by years in prison in Europe. The narrative doesn't matter bro? It's fucking inscribed in law now. And yes, simply denying Le 6 McMillions IS ENOUGH to be criminally prosecuted. So if you do say 1 million died online in Germany for example, you will be arrested, prosecuted, and sent to prison for years. You guys are a walking contradiction, but then again so is the Holocaust tale.
Read the context you idiot and stop being a dishonest faggot. Let's repeat what I stated, shall we:
<The "narrative" doesn't matter, the Nazis actions gave birth to the colonization of Palestine regardless. Even if it was "Muh deportation, muh temporary housing camp, muh only one million executed", it would still be used in the same way.
Wow anon, it looks like none of that had anything to do with holocaust denial being prosecuted, and everything to do with how the Nazis actions assisted in birthing Israel regardless and how the story itself doesn't matter in the context of how Zionists use it, because they'll use it even if it was less then what occured.
>100% wrong again. See video. She's a former longtime member of the Knesset who started off right wing and ended her life more compassionately thankfully. She of course knew what she was talking about, because she used the Holocaust to justify colonization. The reason Europe and America fell in line with Hasbara Zionism has everything to do with the Holocaust narrative. Explain to me why President JFK opposed the mossad's relationship with the CIA, opposed Israel's nuclear weapons program, and issued an ultimatum to Davin Ben Gurion that either the Jews play according to UN rules or the USA would invade or launch air strikes on Dimona.
Did I once deny that Israel uses the Holocaust as a cudgel? In fact, did I now literally state so? But if you're going to be a fucking materialist, you should be able to understand that it's not a story that gives them actual power to do the things they do. Israel doesn't get away with it because it says to the US government "But muh Holocaust", it gets away with it because Israel is a beneficial imperialist ally, a veritable beachhead of imperialism in the middle east. They didn't say "You can do it because Holocaust". And JFK was never against Israel, this is cope trying to rehabilitate him as a "based" US president. JFKs primary issue was the proliferation of nuclear weapons and the diplomatic situation in the middle east, and even that he just had concern over. Other then that, he greatly respected the relationship between the US and Israel, and tried to ensure such a relationship didn't fall apart. This is apparent in the declassified reports regarding the situation, and matches up with JFKs own positive view of Zionism in public. Also, proof to the airstrike claim? To my knowledge, Kennedy barely had any information regarding it because the CIA obfuscated the thing until nuclear weapons were actually completed, with Kennedy believing the thing to be energy related.
>It's a start isn't it? It took Israel 40 years to build support for the Holocaust tale, which didn't come to dominate the west's view on Jews until the 1990's, with such propaganda as Shindler's List and other Harveywood favorites. Removing the Holocaust as a weapon of blackmail used against Europe and the USA would greatly benefit a new era where Israelis are forced to behave like the Le Great Democracy they pretend to be.
No it wouldn't you faggot. Does the US have to behave like "Le Great Democracy" despite not even having a pity story to it's name? Seriously, how naive are you? Do you think the US and Europe go about, hanging their heads stating "Woe is me, I don't want Israel to do what it does, but the Holocaust is just so strong of an argument". No, they go "As long as Israel keeps up doing what it needs to do, I don't really give a shit about the Palestinians", just like the US doesn't really give a shit about the Yemeni people when Saudi Arabia does it or gives a shit when India brutalizes it's Muslim population. They do not care, Holocaust or not. It's not blackmail, it's a convenient little story. If our collective memory of it were wiped tomorrow, the US would still support Israel regardless, and they would still operate in the symbiotic relationship they do today, because it forwards both their interests. The idea that the governments of the US or Europe actually care about "Le Great Democracy" anywhere at all is a complete joke that is sold to the people. Fucking Saudi Arabia is theocratic monarchy, but Russia and China are the primary anti-democratic states of the world by their "standards". What does that tell you?
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 No.356920

>>356860
>Your article is fake, mine is real.
No, it's that you don't even have a source for your "article" at all, and you should be able to find this account outside of it.
>Your article states that a linguist declared small white stones to be bones. And this happened no less in an article where both the linguist and the museum's curator were lamenting the lack of shekels in their pockets. Oh anon.
No, it's the linguist reiterating that the "stones" that tourists don't pay attention to when walking over the ash are actually bones, not him being the first to make a declaration on it.
>Continuing on in your Reuter's piece, we read that Auschwitz was detonated by the Nazis, flooded with water repeatedly, partially rebuilt several times, including in 1990 when the board of director's got a several million dollar cash infusion, and yet pockets are empty. No shekels left. Look at the bones! Doesn't that make you feel sorry? The bones survived Nazi explosions, and were trampled on by construction workers who rebuilt (built) the gas chambers, yet we tearfully lament those paying customers who trample on dem bones dem bones. Haha. I'll never cease to be amazed at the depravity of scoundrels.
None of what you stated means there were no ashes left or could survive, even the people in the article state that all of the events as well as the tourism after resulted in lots of the ash remains being lost, and the area being closed off.
>The Nazis left behind the giant hairball, but took most of the cremated remains with them, leaving a few white stones carefully placed around where the tour guides show them to paying customers. That's shoah business folks. There's no business like shoah business!
Treblinka, which is nowhere near as popular site as Auschwitz, has plenty of ash mixed with bone that can be observed. Sobibor, another rather minor camp, has people constantly uncovering bones due to grave robbers trying to find gold among them. Ash with bone being at Auschwitz is a rather unremarkable thing and is entirely expected. You're also back tracking extremely hard from your intial point, which is that no bone shards could be found.
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 No.356923

>>356864
So far the Holocaust fans have said:
-of course there were no bone fragments anon, the nazis crunched them up with tiny, impractical wooden mallets, and dumped the dust into a river.
-of course there were bone fragments anon. A linguist told a journalist about them in 2007, while he was coincidentally trying to raise funds for the museum.
Now, my question to you is- why didn't the linguist kill two birds with one stone and gather up the bone fragments to be put on display INSIDE the museum, instead of carelessly leaving them outside in the elements? Wouldn't bone fragments excite the paying crowd more than the giant hairball? See, I should be running the Auschwitz Entertainment Complex. My ideas would bring in those shekels that they sorely crave.
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 No.356925

>>353015
It's an easy contrarian take
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 No.356929

>>356923
I also said there was mass graves fuckwit, the fragments could easily have come from there, or maybe the fact that bones were crushed by hand (in some cases) was why some fragments survive, seeing as that would be difficult as you point out. It speaks volumes that you choose to focus on some pissy little thing like this rather than address the mountains of documentary evidence, physical evidence, testimony from survivors, testimony from Nazis (no not only at Nuremburg), mass graves, etc etc etc.
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 No.356933

File: 1625481525021.jpg ( 139.19 KB , 1015x550 , MV5BMjVlZmI5MjAtNzIxZS00MW….jpg )

>>356923
you don't get to ask questions until you answer mine properly
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 No.356939

>>356923
>So far the Holocaust fans have said
It's not being a "fan", it's just stating it happend.
>of course there were no bone fragments anon, the nazis crunched them up with tiny, impractical wooden mallets, and dumped the dust into a river.
But we literally stated there were bone fragments. Much was discarded in such a fashion, with many camps just using machines to break it up, but there was ash and bone that still very much remained. And you try and make the wooden mallet thing sound absurd, but it actually isn't after bone has been subjected to high temperatures. After bone has been subjected to a high temperature, it crumbles relatively easily to striking. You can even press it with a log.
>of course there were bone fragments anon. A linguist told a journalist about them in 2007, while he was coincidentally trying to raise funds for the museum.
The linguist reiterated it, he wasn't the one that announced it for the first time. Bone in ash is something that was already a thing and found in other camps as well.
>Now, my question to you is- why didn't the linguist kill two birds with one stone and gather up the bone fragments to be put on display INSIDE the museum, instead of carelessly leaving them outside in the elements? Wouldn't bone fragments excite the paying crowd more than the giant hairball? See, I should be running the Auschwitz Entertainment Complex. My ideas would bring in those shekels that they sorely crave.
What, you want them to gather up all of it? As in all of the ash within the entire camp? They could place some inside, and likely do, but most camps actually try and keep things how they are to try preserve them as is. Only when damages are sustained or thing are falling apart are things changed. Again though, you aren't actually disproving anything, you've just backtracked from "there are no bone fragments". Yet there are, and have been for a while.
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 No.356946

File: 1625482682327.jpg ( 43.32 KB , 600x300 , C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppD….jpg )

>>356929
Because each and every piece of 'evidence' you guys submit is riddled with holes. And as you've demonstrated here, you don't really want to focus on one issue at a time, you want to lead me to your preferred evidence that you think is foolproof. Here's the problem Jenkins- either the Holocaust narrative is real and there shouldn't be any trouble addressing ANY of it, or the real story is more nuanced and probably not as sensational, and that's why you keep wanting to choose the topic of debate.

Bone Fragments are hereby DEBOONKED

Now take it from one of your fellow traveler's in picrel.
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 No.356948

File: 1625482777333.jpg ( 108.2 KB , 1200x1200 , 0_21690242-7739531-image-m….jpg )

>>356946
>@third_position
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 No.356951

File: 1625483282323.jpg ( 102.51 KB , 625x360 , menachembegin_003.jpg )

>>356948
>oh dears, teh tourists keep stepping on muh bone fragments! why don't they honor the dead like I do?
put the bone fragments INSIDE jenkins, and put the giant cat furball OUTSIDE. I thought you guys were supposed to have genius IQ levels.
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 No.356961

>>356264
Yo Eugene you should write a book.
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 No.357016

>>356946
>Because each and every piece of 'evidence' you guys submit is riddled with holes. And as you've demonstrated here, you don't really want to focus on one issue at a time, you want to lead me to your preferred evidence that you think is foolproof. Here's the problem Jenkins- either the Holocaust narrative is real and there shouldn't be any trouble addressing ANY of it, or the real story is more nuanced and probably not as sensational, and that's why you keep wanting to choose the topic of debate.
Not once have you disproved any of what people have brought up against you. Any "holes" have been arguments which themselves have holes within them, and every time have been addressed. Your only argument has been to either bring up the most absurd possible account that no one accepts to begin with, or to back track and shift the argument towards something different to try and escape you previous claim. And you aren't arguing for "nuance", you're arguing that the Holocaust flat out didn't happen at all, which is entirely unfounded.
>Bone Fragments are hereby DEBOONKED
Where did you debunk them?
>Now take it from one of your fellow traveler's in picrel.
What a dishonest quote mine. Baum never stated that his accounts were false or fabricated, what he admitted to was that the propaganda, as in literal propaganda in the sense of information distributed to put forward a political cause, had its origin from those that were there and wished make their plight heard. He did not once state that what was actually being propagandized was false. This is like saying that because first hand stories by soldiers published back in the USSR of fighting on the front lines was technically "propaganda", that it is then fabricated and false. It completely misses the context of what propaganda meant at that time.
>>356951
>put the bone fragments INSIDE jenkins, and put the giant cat furball OUTSIDE. I thought you guys were supposed to have genius IQ levels.
The bone is in the ash you idiot. Seriously, what the fuck do you want them to do? Sift and sort all the bone from the ash? It's supposed to be treated like a grave and memorial, preserved for historical purposes. When they dug up bones in Sobibor, they showed them, took pictures, and then buried them. There was no cover up, and everyone is aware of the bones there. In Treblinka they have mass graves of bone ash that everyone knows the location of after uncovering. We're at the point where you don't even have an argument anymore, and have to apparently just criticize the stupidity of the curators. What even argument is to be made here? "The curators are stupid, they shouldn't keep it outside". Ok, and? That wasn't even the initial argument, the initial argument was the existence of bone fragments, which you stated didn't exist at all.
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 No.357024

>>356946
>BAUM
Except the word "propaganda" is not used in the way you're implying at all. Have you not even investigated your own quotes? What he is talking about is smuggling out information to bring to the rest of the world awareness as to what was going on in the camp. In no way was it intended to imply that they were spreading false propaganda. His understanding of the word came from his communist political education. Precisely because this became an issue, in future editions the word "Auschwitzpropaganda" was replaced with "Veröffentlichungen über Auschwitz", or in English "Publications about Auschwitz".

In the sentence just before the beginning of your quote:

>"Nun ging die Tragödie von Auschwitz durch die Welt"

or in English:
>"Now the tragedy of Auschwitz was going around the world".

Two sentences later:
>"Gleichzeitig schickten wir gute Dokumente, die wir in die Hände bekamen, nach Krakau, um mit diesen das ganze Ungeheurliche der Massenvernichtung dokumentarisch beweisen zu können."
or in English:
>"At the same time we sent to Krakow good documents that we got hold of, in order to be able to prove with them the whole monstrosity of the mass extermination."

In the previous chapter, titled "Wir informieren die Welt", or in English "We inform the world":
>Unsere grösste Aufgabe bestand darin, in Briefen oder in Berichten mitzuteilen, was sich im Lager abspiuelte. Die enorme Vergasungen - wie Überhaupt diese Tötungsart - wurden selbst von denjenigen, die lange Jahre in der Illegalität gegen Hitler gekämpft hatten und die unendlichen Grausamkeiten der Nazis kannten, nicht geglaubt.
>Wir, die wussten, das Auschwitz die grösste Menschenvernichtungsstätte der Welt ist, die es je gegeben hat, waren uns darÜber im klaren, nur wenn die welt weiss, was sich heir abspielt, kann uns geholfen werden; denn nichts fÜrchteten die SS-Verbrecher so sehr wie die öffentlichkeit.
or in English:
>Our greatest task was to communicate in letters or in reports what was happening in the camp. The enormous gassings - like this kind of killing in general - were not believed even by those who had fought against Hitler for many years in illegality and knew the infinite cruelties of the Nazis.
>We, who knew that Auschwitz was the world's largest site of human extermination ever, knew that only if the world knew what was happening here could we be helped, because there was nothing the SS criminals feared as much as the public.

In the book there are countless other references to gassing, executions and cruelties, his personal witness testimony and the witness testimonies of his comrades and other prisoners. Why would he randomly say that all the information about Auschwitz was just fake propaganda invented by them, after just having described mass killings and mass gassings? It makes no fucking sense whatsoever, unless of course, like you, one's real purpose is not to understand anything but to have your paint-huffing delusions confirmed.

In the final chapter of Baum's "Resistance in Auschwitz", these are his parting words:
>We were in the cruelest concentration camp, on the biggest battlefield of this war. We fought the battle against gas death with all those who were willing to do so. We tried to inform the world about what was happening in Auschwitz and cooperated with the Polish resistance movement as brothers. Auschwitz was a hard school for all of us. When we left it, we ourselves could not believe that we had escaped alive. But many others, only too many, we left there. They died for the profit of IG Farben, Krupp, Siemens and many other monopolistic companies. We, who have escaped the hell of Auschwitz, should always remember this and not rest until these powerful people have been brought to justice and their companies have been transferred to public ownership. This is the only way to prevent a new Auschwitz.
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 No.358780

File: 1625538690491.jpg ( 284.05 KB , 1021x729 , 1603535878878.jpg )

>>357024
> Precisely because this became an issue, in future editions the word "Auschwitzpropaganda" was replaced with "Veröffentlichungen über Auschwitz", or in English "Publications about Auschwitz".
It remains problematic that people should come in and alter Baum's original statement. Anytime you do this you're only going to cast further doubt on your intentions, and on the legitimacy of the Holocaust industry.
British intelligence reports suggest that they became so disgusted with being bombarded with propaganda from Poland, that they stopped taking any of it seriously and just figured they were dealing with quacks. This occurred around 1943. The sheer volume of claims pouring in about masturbation machines, anal balloon torture and the like made it impossible to differentiate between what was fact and what was fiction.
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 No.358817

>>357016
>>357024
>In the book there are countless other references to gassing, executions and cruelties, his personal witness testimony and the witness testimonies of his comrades and other prisoners. Why would he randomly say that all the information about Auschwitz was just fake propaganda invented by them, after just having described mass killings and mass gassings? It makes no fucking sense whatsoever, unless of course, like you, one's real purpose is not to understand anything but to have your paint-huffing delusions confirmed.
Again, according to Holocaust propagandists, we're supposed to pick through what was real and what was fake by examining the claims through a modern lens and assigning a True verdict to claims that seem plausible, and a False verdict to claims that are obviously implausible. We're to do this this while working within the modern framework that the Holocaust narrative is the correct way to view this chapter of history. It's fucking schizo logic man. To top it off, phony holocaust stories have only intensified since 1945, with the Jewish people being the biggest offenders, as scores of charlatans have made fortunes selling outlandish stories for profit. These charlatans are not imprisoned or punished the way we would with an outright denier, further adding confusion– if the memory of the Holocaust is so important, and harming this memory with denial brings about risk of the Holocaust happening again, then why are the fakes and frauds profiting off of it not punished?
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 No.358905

File: 1625544201477.gif ( 234.3 KB , 694x694 , 1625528080095.gif )

I like how OPs thread started off about why it's important to remember human atrocities and why simply denying them leads to destructive behavior and then the entire thread turned into 1 long ass back and forth between nationalists denying different atrocities throughout human history. Really shows how disappointing of a species humanity actually is
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 No.358925

>>358905
what's even worse is how long and elaborate these discussions with nazi propagandists can get without drawing any reaction from faggot jannies whatsoever. deserters in the face of nazis must be shot by nkvd squads if you ask me.
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 No.358926

>>358905
The holocaust fanatics deny every other ethnic genocide of the 20th & 21st centuries besides the holocaust.
The logicians that question the veracity of the Holocaust narrative don't deny other ethnic genocides occurred, and in fact don't even deny that Jews were targeted. They simply do not believe in the sanctity of arbitrary numbers and mythology. It's not difficult to discern who the anti-humanitarians are in all of this.
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 No.358927

>>358925
>save me faggot janny
>issue bans and prune content that I don't want discussed.
Face the wall cumrag.
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 No.358928

>>358926
you're making reference to an ideal albeit fictional body of intelligent scholars with well-researched and nuanced opinions. this is to mask the fact that nobody on the internet is so interested in "deboonking the (((narrative)))" but nazis and gullible people who are being fed lies by nazis.
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 No.358933

>>358780
>It remains problematic that people should come in and alter Baum's original statement. Anytime you do this you're only going to cast further doubt on your intentions, and on the legitimacy of the Holocaust industry.
They didn't alter his completely change his statement you faggot, it was just edited to clarify what it meant, because quote mining fags like you would refuse to read the rest and just close the book after seeing the single quote. Then after to edit it to clarify the barrier in what it means for readers, you complain that they're trying to hide the truth. But they weren't, it's just that you refused to even bother to put it into context otherwise.
>British intelligence reports suggest that they became so disgusted with being bombarded with propaganda from Poland, that they stopped taking any of it seriously and just figured they were dealing with quacks. This occurred around 1943. The sheer volume of claims pouring in about masturbation machines, anal balloon torture and the like made it impossible to differentiate between what was fact and what was fiction.
Literally nobody takes the masturbation machines and balloon torture shit seriously, and no mainstream historian does either. This was address here >>356283. You're also just flat out lying here, because the masturbation machine claim didn't even come out in 1943, it was created by a fraud half a century later and was immediately called out as such by historians. The anal pump claim was also never taken seriously by any historian either, or even by others at the time regarding reports, because it wasn't from reports. Rather it was from a quick buck sensationalized cash grab, something which again isn't suprising for many events even today, but was quickly discredited.
>>358817
>Again, according to Holocaust propagandists, we're supposed to pick through what was real and what was fake by examining the claims through a modern lens and assigning a True verdict to claims that seem plausible, and a False verdict to claims that are obviously implausible. We're to do this this while working within the modern framework that the Holocaust narrative is the correct way to view this chapter of history.
That's literally how historical study works you pseud. How do you think we assemble our history of Ancient Rome? How do you think we try glto obtain the best picture of major battles or daily life. We assemble multiple accounts of events, and attempt to find those which have foundational basis, while weeding out the parts of those that don't. And it's not simply about plausibility, it's also about how many accounts line up with one another. For example, if the vast majority of the combatants in a battle have written records saying one thing, and then you have just a random dude who says something else which doesn't at all match up and is absurd in the context of what could occur on the battle, it's likely that the former occured and the latter should be questioned in it's validity.
>It's fucking schizo logic man.
No, it really isn't. What you're arguing is complete schizo logic.
>To top it off, phony holocaust stories have only intensified since 1945, with the Jewish people being the biggest offenders, as scores of charlatans have made fortunes selling outlandish stories for profit. These charlatans are not imprisoned or punished the way we would with an outright denier, further adding confusion– if the memory of the Holocaust is so important, and harming this memory with denial brings about risk of the Holocaust happening again, then why are the fakes and frauds profiting off of it not punished?
Because fraud is treated as a different crime altogether, and is punished, generally by the paying of large fines and a barring from publications. And a lot of the frauds, who commonly are called out for it by Holocaust historians, aren't even Jewish. The masturbation machine one isn't even from a Jewish person, its from a non-Jewish Australian trying to make a quick buck. If anything, this goes against your argument. If they're trying to cover up the Holocaust as being fake so hard, why do are Aussies writing fraudulent books only getting large fines? Wouldn't a true conspiracy to maintain the "myth" of the Holocaust try and keep the official narrative untainted and seemingly without flaw? Why would they permit a guy who's tarnishing the narrative they've been playing up for decades off with simply a fine? Why wouldn't they make a bigger example of him, h'es the perfect punching bag.
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 No.358936

>>358928
And this is another charade designed to bolster the Holocaust industry- "surely you must be a Nazi if you challenge Le Grande Holocaust". Do you know who Norman Finkelstein is faggot? Do you know that Finkelstein's career in academia was ruined by one rabid Zionist and Trump crony by the name of Alan Dershowitz? Finkelstein's most read book is called the Holocaust Industry, and exposes many of the same quack concepts and hoaxes that appear itt. Finkelstein is a progressive supporter of the Palestinians, and as such is persona non grata in academic institutions and media circles within his own country. You're perpetuating the holy grail of capitalist groupthink, the one that can end a professor's career if dare challenge it. Zionists don't see a difference between Holocaust worship and colonization of Palestine - they're both just extensions of the ethnocentrism that drives their ideology. The fact that you willing adopt half of the Zionist's most important foundation for justifying torture and killing means you're not a threat to them. You're an ally whether you realize it or not.
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 No.358943

File: 1625546932446.jpg ( 576.33 KB , 1920x2869 , 282a84c10afe205f154e77836c….jpg )

>>358926
>The holocaust fanatics deny every other ethnic genocide of the 20th & 21st centuries besides the holocaust.
Who's doing this in this thread? No seriously, tell me who's doing this? You keep strawmanning over and over again, but not once have people stated for example that no genocide occurred in Indonesia or the Balkans because the Holocaust happened.
>The logicians that question the veracity of the Holocaust narrative don't deny other ethnic genocides occurred, and in fact don't even deny that Jews were targeted. They simply do not believe in the sanctity of arbitrary numbers and mythology. It's not difficult to discern who the anti-humanitarians are in all of this.
We already explained the numbers, they aren't as absurd as you make them out to be. It's anywhere between 5 to 7 million, and that comes around to about 6 million given all the different numbers calculated. If you really want to get specific, you could say it's approximately 5.9 million, but thats not very much of a difference or negates the point of the Holocaust happening. You haven't made an actual argument throughout this whole thread, you've only continuously backtracked from you initial claims, tried to slander others as being something they aren't (like claiming that we deny other genocides, that we're anti-Soviet and anti-Stalin traitors, or that we absolve Israel of it's crimes), used the "consequences" of it being true as reason for it being false, and just flat out lied in many cases. Seriously anon, why are you like this?
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 No.358944

File: 1625547008900.jpg ( 50.26 KB , 640x729 , C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppD….jpg )

>>358933
>they didn't change it, they just edited it
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 No.358967

>>358943
>Well yes you see, the 6 million figure is quite rationally based upon decades of research. It's not an arbitrary number pulled out of some guy's ass.

>On January 21, 1944, about a year and a half before the end of World War II, a dramatic item was published on the front page of Haaretz. Under the headline “Six million Jewish victims,” it brought unusual testimony for the time about the number of Jews murdered in the Holocaust. “Six million – that’s the calculation made by two young men in a meeting with members of their party organizations in Palestine,” the report said.


>“With pencil in hand they counted the number of victims in each country and reached an astonishing number – 6 million Jews were murdered and killed and died in Nazi-occupied countries in death camps, concentration camps, labor camps and the various ghettos,” the article said.


>In the Yad Vashem database there are about 6.5 million listings of victims, but they include double entries – people who appear on more than one list. According to Yad Vashem’s estimates, once the double listings are removed, the database contains about 4.8 million names. The rest of the names have yet to be discovered, and may never be known.




"https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-figure-of-6-million-holocaust-victims-first-cited-by-polish-survivor-not-eichmann-1.8781961

The 6 million figure was decided upon long before the war had even ended, and was being promoted by Jewish media as early as January 1944. Yad Vashem, in their attempts at proving a hypothesis based on an arbitrary number went so far as to count dead people twice. Even that failed to reach the intended target. You are full of shit when you claim deniers are stuck on the 6 million number, as Israel's top institution for Holocaust study forges their way to meet the goal.
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 No.358970

>>358936
>And this is another charade designed to bolster the Holocaust industry- "surely you must be a Nazi if you challenge Le Grande Holocaust".
No, it's because you deny the Holocaust outright. Not that you question Israel's use, not that you question the industry around it, you flat of deny it ever occured. If you're not a Nazi, you're at the very least an apologist for them.
>Do you know who Norman Finkelstein is faggot? Do you know that Finkelstein's career in academia was ruined by one rabid Zionist and Trump crony by the name of Alan Dershowitz? Finkelstein's most read book is called the Holocaust Industry, and exposes many of the same quack concepts and hoaxes that appear itt. Finkelstein is a progressive supporter of the Palestinians, and as such is persona non grata in academic institutions and media circles within his own country. You're perpetuating the holy grail of capitalist groupthink, the one that can end a professor's career if dare challenge it.
You retarded unread pseud. Nowhere, not once, does Finkelstein deny the Holocaust. He never states the Nazis weren't exterminating Jews. He never states that the whole thing was fabricated, that it was actually just all deportations and that the millions lost were just manufactured from thin air. No, he argue that the INDUSTRY is an issue, that ZIONISM is the issue, you dishonest fucking rat. Finkelstein's literal reasoning for being against what Israel is doing in Palestine is because of the Holocaust. It's because he lost family in it, because his parents taught him that such things should be abhorred regardless of who does it. The Holocaust doesn't make him support Israel, it makes him against it, because he's fucking consistent instead of hypocrite on the subject. For him what, they are doing is it's own holocaust, and must be opposed.
>Zionists don't see a difference between Holocaust worship and colonization of Palestine - they're both just extensions of the ethnocentrism that drives their ideology. The fact that you willing adopt half of the Zionist's most important foundation for justifying torture and killing means you're not a threat to them. You're an ally whether you realize it or not.
It isn't adopting half uyghur, its understanding it occured while also taking a complete stance against Israel despite, or even because of it. If ethnocentric Armenians started comitting their own genocide tomorrow on their own minorites while using the Armenian genocide as their argument, I wouldn't be "adopting half" of their ideology because I conceded that such a genocide occured. What stupid logic is that? And we went over this earlier, Israel doesn't get away with it because it tells it's allies holocaust stories, you naive midwit. It gets away with it because in the end, its allies have no issue with what it does as long it fulfills it's needed role. Same with Saudi Arabia, same with India, same with everywhere else. The idea that believing the Holocaust happened puts you on their side would mean that the PFLP, people who literally fight Israel on the ground, are actually on the side of Zionists because they don't deny the Holocaust, while Breivik, someone who has no issue with Zionism and takes their side in the "war against Islam" depsite likely questioning the Holocaust himself, isn't. That's stupid as fuck.
>>358944
>Lol, I don't have to read the context, I can just post wojaks and my argument is made!
I'm going to take that as you conceding the overall point, because you lacked an argument to the actual substance of it. Read next time, the rest of the book goes into how he in no way fabricated or made up what he stated. The singular sentence was edited though because people kept missing his words and not reading the whole thing, and so to make the paragraph have context in itself, it was adjusted. Maybe if you didn't lie to people about it, it would ln't have had to in order for the English to not be misused. Things are also edited all the time to make it understandable in a modern context, many publications of antiquated works do this as well.
>>

 No.358975

>>358943
>Who's doing this in this thread? No seriously, tell me who's doing this?
Oh, just every Jewish group up until recently. You can find deniers itt if you look for them idiot.
The Anti Defamation League lobbied the US Congress for years to not recognize the 1.5 million deaths from the Armenian Genocide. Israel considers Armenians to be subhuman, the same way Germany viewed your ancestors. Israel deals arms to Azerbaijan, which helped defeat Armenia in last year's war.
>>

 No.359007

>>358975
every *zionist group, which is the pertinent fact. however you are a nazi and cannot help but racebait when cornered. zionists get laughed off this board every day, you use their example to flame us?
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 No.359008

>>358967
>The 6 million figure was decided upon long before the war had even ended, and was being promoted by Jewish media as early as January 1944. Yad Vashem, in their attempts at proving a hypothesis based on an arbitrary number went so far as to count dead people twice. Even that failed to reach the intended target. You are full of shit when you claim deniers are stuck on the 6 million number, as Israel's top institution for Holocaust study forges their way to meet the goal.
You want to post the rest of that, or am I forced to? Fine then:
<How did Unger know about the outcome of the Holocaust in real time, before the killing had ended? “At the time the number 6 million was the accepted number of European Jews,” says Rappel. He found reinforcement for his claim in other newspapers, where they warned of the fate of “6 million Jews,” even after Unger had spoken
This is entirely consistent with the written reporting regarding the number of Jews in Eastern Europe at the time, which was estimated at around 6 million before even WW2. Ungers use of the numbers was absolutely personally and ideologically motivated, but the number he used didn't come from nowhere. It was just him reiterating his view (which wasn't even shared by other Zionists or Jews) that all the Jews in Eastern Europe had perished, and only gained limited traction near the end. Even then, after the war you had the Nazis admitting to a similar figure, though completely different in it's make-up (not being all of Eastern Europe, but a mix of Europe and Eastern Europe together in total). Yad Vashem is also not the authority on all calculations, and even then they arrived at a figure about 5 million after duplicates were removed, which entirely matches up with what other calculation later on found. As stated multiple times before, which apparently you can't get through your thick skull, the number is not exactly 6 million. Rather it's approximately 6 million, which is based on the number being somewhere between 5 million and 7 million, and the number itself being "sticky" because of the trial in which that's the number admitted to. If wanted to get specific, you could say 5.9 million, but in reality that makes little difference for either anti-Zionists or Zionists. You haven't actually shown how such an approximation is incorrect, you've just once again tried to bring up Zionists doing something, which fails to affect the actual separate calculations done by others.
>>

 No.359022

>>358975
>Oh, just every Jewish group up until recently. You can find deniers itt if you look for them idiot.
No, show me fucking where. Practically everybody in this thread has done no such thing, and just treats the Holocaust as one genocide in a long line of European imperialist genocides. Where in this thread, outside of the Ottoman falseflagger (or /pol/yp, take your pick) who denied both the Armenian genocide and the Holocaust both, did any anon deny other genocides because of the Holocaust?
>The Anti Defamation League lobbied the US Congress for years to not recognize the 1.5 million deaths from the Armenian Genocide. Israel considers Armenians to be subhuman, the same way Germany viewed your ancestors. Israel deals arms to Azerbaijan, which helped defeat Armenia in last year's war.
I'm not Jewish or even Slavic you fag, if that's what you're trying to imply by the German comment. I know very well about Israel's dealings and it's history of denial, nowhere did I deny such. What you stated completely ignored my point, which is that no one here is denying such genocides because of the Holocaust, which you seem adament in peddling.
>Inb4 muh holodomor
We don't "deny" that because of the Holocaust, it just didn't happen and multiple historians have had to concede that due to the Soviets making frequent attempts to prevent starvation of Ukrainians while explicitly not having any ethnic bias against them in any capacity.
>>

 No.359027

Real reasons :

Boomers losing cultural influence.
Many generations passing since the war.
Dissolution of common values in western society.
Elimination of privilege includes all privilege, including Jewish privilege.
>>

 No.359031

>>359027
None of this seems like a reason to straight up deny it though, just to treat it like one of many European genocides.
>>

 No.359035

>>359031
It has more to do with culture than you think.

In the 70s 80s and 90s, when western society was strong and not as divided, denying the Holocaust was pretty much unthinkable. With widespread internet access, wealth inequality and social division, people start looking for alternative worldviews and narratives.
>>

 No.359045

>>359031
Grandpa in the nursing home says the Holocaust happened.

Young person thinks 'wow, old people and their beliefs are uncool.' Thus denying genocides becomes an act of youthful rebellion.
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 No.359049

File: 1625552102414.jpg ( 86.03 KB , 780x505 , C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppD….jpg )

>>358970
>dishonest fucking rat
Where did I say that Finkelstein denies the holocaust Schmueli? Hmm? Go on, tell me. The world's most prolific liars are now accusing others of being liars. Well, isn't that just predicable? That liars would accuse others of lying, thieves accuse others of thievery, and genocide promoters accuse others of genocide should not surprise us, yet it does surprise even the most seasoned veteran of dealing with the world's biggest liars. The ones who lied coerced the USA into war with Iraq, which killed 2 million (more than le Hokeycaust?), the ones who then lied about Syria to get the next American president to start a war, and the ones who are now hellbent in lying in order to get America to defeat the government of Iran for them. You are a worthless sniveling cowardly sack of shit stuck to the bottom of mankind's foot that it can't shake or pry loose. Lie again faggot, go ahead.
>>

 No.359052

>>359031
the youth always rise.
Saturn cannot devour his sons in time
>>

 No.359062

>>359045
generation zyklon isn't happening. There has always been a group of contrarians for just about everything. Sometimes it's good, and in this case it's just fags wanting to be too clever for thou.
>>

 No.359063

>>359031
gen zyklon = alt right cope. The truth involves GenZedong and China's global exportation of Maoism.
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 No.359083

File: 1625553745767-0.mp4 ( 2.89 MB , 854x480 , 1620689997118.mp4 )

File: 1625553745767-1.pdf ( 2.21 MB , 411x300 , 1620959680235.pdf )

>>359049
>Where did I say that Finkelstein denies the holocaust Schmueli? Hmm? Go on, tell me.
Again, not Jewish, and you tried to utilize his points in regards to the Holocaust industry itself and an argument against the Holocaust itself, which Finkelstein himself would find abhorrent.
>The world's most prolific liars are now accusing others of being liars. Well, isn't that just predicable?
Where did I lie, and who do you think I'm a part of that makes me one of the "world's most prolific liars"? You also did straight up multiple times in this thread.
>That liars would accuse others of lying, thieves accuse others of thievery, and genocide promoters accuse others of genocide should not surprise us, yet it does surprise even the most seasoned veteran of dealing with the world's biggest liars.
Where have I lied, where have I stolen, and where have I promoted genocide?
>The ones who lied coerced the USA into war with Iraq, which killed 2 million (more than le Hokeycaust?), the ones who then lied about Syria to get the next American president to start a war, and the ones who are now hellbent in lying in order to get America to defeat the government of Iran for them. You are a worthless sniveling cowardly sack of shit stuck to the bottom of mankind's foot that it can't shake or pry loose. Lie again faggot, go ahead.
Yeah, because the US did all those things just because of Israel. Not because the US has a long history of imperialist ventures, oh no. The US is an innocent child who's only been led astray by the Zionists in it's moments of weakness. It's not like Israel is a beachhead of US imperialism, that they collaborate consistently to achieve both their goals, and that such a view is one held by the PFLP, Hamas, and Hezbollah. Oh wait, it is? Well, I guess all of those groups are just Zionist shills, working on behalf of Israel to sow lies while they… fight Israel? Hmm. Yeah, something doesn't seem right there.

If you haven't payed attention fag, I'm vehemently against Israel. I was probably against Israel before you even stepped into the fucking subject of Zionism for the first time. I, quite literally, want the entirety of the state of Israel gone and the US government as well as much of the governments of Europe that support it wiped off the face of the earth. Don't call anyone a coward when your arguments are almost entirely predicated on America being just an innocent bystander that gets roped into something by others, that way you run from the need to actually oppose it. I've been consistent in my opposition to the imperialist west as a whole, have you?
>>

 No.359087

>>359083
*tried to utilize his points in regards to the Holocaust industry itself as an argument against the Holocaust itself
*Also, you did straight up lie multiple times in this thread
>>

 No.359131

>>359083
>*Also, you did straight up lie multiple times in this thread
Thank you. The long-winded shill is a liar and can't answer a single simple question without turning it into an essay, whereby he regurgitates the Zionist lobby's talking points.
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 No.359143

>>359131
>Thank you. The long-winded shill is a liar and can't answer a single simple question without turning it into an essay, whereby he regurgitates the Zionist lobby's talking points.
You're talking about the denier, right?
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 No.359178

>>359083
>Yeah, because the US did all those things just because of Israel.
Well, actually yes lying shill, they did. You see, prior to the US President Lyndon Johnson, the USA took a neutral stance on Israel and were leery of Zionism. As previously mentioned and ignored by you shill itt, the US President John Kennedy was not a friend of Israel, and issued an ultimatum to Israeli Prime Minister Ben Gurion demanding that Israel stop it's illegal nuclear weapons program. The 11 months leading up to Kennedy's death were ripe with tension between the US and Israel over Israel's violation of international law at nuclear site Dimona. The USA was not a partner in Israel's colonization or illegal arms manufacturing program until JFK died, and the corrupt Lyndon Johnson replaced him. Johnson was a bribe taker who escalated the war in Vietnam, and condoned Israel's use of force against Egypt, even going so far as to dismiss the USS Liberty attack, the first instance of a US President truly cucking to Israel. Johnson also dropped Kennedy's measures to contain the Israeli nuclear proliferation, and Israel got nuclear weapons under Johnson's tacit approval in 1965.

Fast forward to the Bush administration if you will- by this time, most of the presidential appointments were given to Zionists, most of those being Jews. These men like Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith, Zakheim, and others were rapid imperialists during the 1990s, and tried unsuccessfully to convince American President Clinton to invade Iraq. What was their motives for wanted a war with Iraq in 1996, if not Zionist objectives? 9/11 was 5 years in the distant future, and Saddam Hussein didn't possess nuclear capabilities that could threaten US cities.
It is no exaggeration to claim that the US government is filled with Zionists, be it Jews or non-Jews. Yes they do Israel's bidding while ignoring their own people. Yes they terrorize people in the Muslim world that then drives Islamic terrorism to strike Americans. Yes this is all the fault of Zionism, which owes its success to the Holocaust Industry. Faggot.
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 No.359190

File: 1625560199658.jpg ( 87.17 KB , 727x640 , 01b1e35e3e2483ba39494c199d….jpg )

>>358936
>the holocaust industry
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 No.359203

File: 1625560643954.png ( 815.99 KB , 891x975 , MoneyForNothing.png )

>>359190
It's all about the Benjamins baby. Who wouldn't lie for a share of the $trillions$ that Germany has doled out? Answer that. Would you lie if there were millions of dollars in it for you personally?
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 No.359207

>>358944
Yes you sniveling faggot, the meaning of the sentence is the exact same regardless of which phrase is used. The context and intention of the quote is absolutely impossible to read the way deniers present it. It is a bold-faced intentional lie. Either you are an outright liar or weak-minded brainlet quoteminer, which is it? “Truth does not fear investigation”, isn’t what you rodents like to say?
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 No.359255

>>359178
>Well, actually yes lying shill, they did. You see,
prior to the US President Lyndon Johnson, the USA took a neutral stance on Israel and were leery of Zionism.
Imagine fucking believing this. Yeah, the US, which was literally de facto allied to Israel given the cold war, had a "neutral" stance to it. And it totally only started with Lyndon Johnson, it's not like the US voted first for it's creation or violated the neutrality agreement to smuggle weapons to it in 1948.
>As previously mentioned and ignored by you shill itt, the US President John Kennedy was not a friend of Israel, and issued an ultimatum to Israeli Prime Minister Ben Gurion demanding that Israel stop it's illegal nuclear weapons program. The 11 months leading up to Kennedy's death were ripe with tension between the US and Israel over Israel's violation of international law at nuclear site Dimona.
Let's hear Kennedy's own words on the subject, shall we?
<Prophecy is a Jewish tradition, and the World Zionist movement, in which all of you have played so important a role, has continued this tradition. It has turned the dreams of its leaders into acts of statesmanship. It has converted the hopes of the Jewish people into concrete facts of life.
<When the first Zionist conference met in 1897, Palestine was a neglected wasteland. A few scattered Jewish colonies had resettled there, but they had come to die in the Holy Land, rather than to make it live again in greatness. Most of the governments of the world were indifferent.
<But now all is changed. Israel became a triumphant and enduring reality exactly 50 years after Theodore Herzl, the prophet of Zionism, had proclaimed the ideal of nationhood. It was the classic case of an ancient dream finding a young leader, for Herzl was then only 37 years of age. Perhaps I may be allowed the observation that the Jewish people - ever since David slew Goliath - have never considered youth as a barrier to leadership, or measured experience and maturity by mere length of days.
<I first saw Palestine in 1939. There the neglect and ruin left by centuries of Ottoman misrule were slowly being transformed by miracles of labor and sacrifice. But Palestine was still a land of promise in 1939, rather than a land of fulfillment. I returned in 1951 to see the grandeur of Israel. In 3 years this new state had opened its doors to 600,000 immigrants and refugees. Even while fighting for its own survival, Israel had given new hope to the persecuted and new dignity to the pattern of Jewish life. I left with the conviction that the United Nations may have conferred on Israel the credentials of nationhood; but its own idealism and courage, its own sacrifice and generosity, had earned the credentials of immortality.
<Some do not agree. Three weeks ago I said in a public statement: "Israel is here to stay." The next day I was attacked by Cairo radio, rebuking me for my faith in Israel, and quoting this criticism from the Arabic newspaper Al-Gomhouria:
<As for the question of the existence and the nonexistence of Israel, Mr. Kennedy says that Israel has been created in order to exist. Time will judge between us, Mr. Kennedy.
<I agree. Time will judge whether Israel will continue to exist. But I wish I could be as sure of all my prophecies as I am of my flat prediction that Israel is here to stay.
<For Israel was not created in order to disappear - Israel will endure and flourish. It is the child of hope and the home of the brave. It can neither be broken by adversity nor demoralized by success. It carries the shield of democracy and it honors the sword of freedom; and no area of the world has ever had an overabundance of democracy and freedom.
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/speech-senator-john-f-kennedy-zionists-america-convention-statler-hilton-hotel-new-york-ny
And it goes on further. This is your "neutral" hero. And Kennedy was not some kind of enemy to Israel even in private, in fact he very much valued the US's relationship with Israel and wishes to maintain it. Dimona was a situation though in which his views on proliferation came into conflict, and even then the "tension" was a bunch of discussions on the matter, with Kennedy trying to manuver in a way which prevented nuclear weapons, but still maintained the US's relationship with Israel. At no point was there an actual meaningful threat in the slightest, and in fact Kennedy came to actually believe that the situation had been resolved and the Israelis were just engaging in energy production now, as that's what he received from the CIA. The idea that Kennedy was some kind of anti-Israel crusader is absurd, he fully was on its side, but just wished it to tone it done with the nukes, because that was his global policy in the area in question.
>The USA was not a partner in Israel's colonization or illegal arms manufacturing program until JFK died,
That's just a flat out lie. The US literally smuggled weapons in 1948, and continually implicitly supported it's actions by talking it's side in opposition to the USSRs presence in the region.
>and the corrupt Lyndon Johnson replaced him. Johnson was a bribe taker who escalated the war in Vietnam, and condoned Israel's use of force against Egypt, even going so far as to dismiss the USS Liberty attack, the first instance of a US President truly cucking to Israel. Johnson also dropped Kennedy's measures to contain the Israeli nuclear proliferation, and Israel got nuclear weapons under Johnson's tacit approval in 1965.
If you didn't take notice, the US government isn't it's President. Again, you have the most naive takes on political systems. Kennedy was as much a cuck as Johnson, just with a bit more caution in the mix. But in terms of imperialism, Zionism, and capitalist warmongering, Kennedy still:
- Began early escalation in Vietnam in his support of the South Vietnamese (Yes, Kennedy did this first)
- Supported the Bay of Pigs
- Placed nuclear weapons in Turkey and greatly increased the capability of the UKs nuclear missile program against the Soviets
- South Korean dictator Ngo Dinh Diem
- Orchestrated the Brazilian Coup
- Literally initiated the creation of security ties with Israel
- Is literally credited as the founder of the US-Israeli military alliance
- Fucking ended the arms embargo previous administrations had placed on Israel
- Extended the USs security gurantees with Israel and sold it advanced US weaponry
- Stabilized settlements in Israel
Do I have to go on, or do you get the picture yet?
>Fast forward to the Bush administration if you will- by this time, most of the presidential appointments were given to Zionists, most of those being Jews. These men like Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith, Zakheim, and others were rapid imperialists during the 1990s, and tried unsuccessfully to convince American President Clinton to invade Iraq. What was their motives for wanted a war with Iraq in 1996, if not Zionist objectives? 9/11 was 5 years in the distant future, and Saddam Hussein didn't possess nuclear capabilities that could threaten US cities.
Are you actually fucking doing apologism for the Clintons now? You actually believe that? Any apprehension Clinton might have had wasn't because he didn't want to, he would if he could. He just saw it as tactically improper for the time. And Iraq was never about "nuclear weapons" or any weapons of mass destruction for that matter. Their "capabilities" was not the focus, their focus was that Hussein was becoming an issue for them in the middle east overall, and the war before had shown that it would be better to nip it in the bud now then later. Did you seriously buy that horseshit about weapons? It was all imperialism, in both removing somebody who had a history of getting involved where they shouldn't, and also seizing their resources for themselves in the context of a post-ussr world, as Iraq now had no one to lean on.
>It is no exaggeration to claim that the US government is filled with Zionists, be it Jews or non-Jews. Yes they do Israel's bidding while ignoring their own people. Yes they terrorize people in the Muslim world that then drives Islamic terrorism to strike Americans. Yes this is all the fault of Zionism, which owes its success to the Holocaust Industry. Faggot
I don't doubt the US government has Zionists in it, I never disputed that. But no, this is not solely the fault of the zionists. The US always ignored its own people, it always terrorized the 3rd world and engaged in rampant act of imperialism. It doesn't do the bidding of Israel, and such a statement almost seems to purposefully be made to absolve the US of blame. Rather, the US and Israel act symbiotically, the capitalists of own gaining from the act of capitalists on another. Two bourgeoisie states acting in tandem to pursue their interests. This is a fact Islamic militants have known for a long time, with Hezbollah stating knowingly that the US is the dominant of the two. The terrorism that the US deals with is terrorism of it's own making, whether that be related to Israel or not. The idea that all of the imperialist ventures of the US are all simply the fault of ideology of Zionism is a completely anti-materialist and idealistic take, even more so the idea that Zionism merely aquired it's success from the Holocaust industry, and not it's actual imperialist connections. In the end, it's the mechanism of the economic system that moves things, not fanciful ideology. The US is imperialist because that's what capitalism inevetiably results in, Zionism or not. Israel would not be where it was if it did not, at its very base, benefit the bourgeoisie states which permit it.

Faggot.
>>

 No.359267

>>359255
>And it totally only started with Lyndon Johnson, it's not like the US voted first for it's creation
I'll clarify this, because I know it's going to come up, the US was the first to recognize the provisional government of Israel. The USSR just recognized it as a state after everyone else in the west recognized the governments control and they moved towards that of recognizing it as a state.
Also, some typos (ignoring the first quote not green texting properly)
*and wished to maintain it
*rampant acts of imperialism
*the capitalists of one gaining from the acts of capitalists of another
*simply the fault of the ideology
*it's the mechanisms
*inevitably results in
>>

 No.361055

>>360978
>Thailand is both capitalist and non-imperialist. So are Mexico, Australia, and Iceland.
Literally two of those you mentioned have engaged in or aided imperialist ventures. In the case of Thailand and Mexico, both of these are imperialized countries, so their position is that of ones already functioning for imperialists. It is quite difficult for them to perpetuate imperialism themselves in their condition. But did I not say inevitably? If they were to occupy a different economic position, they would absolutely be drivin by the mechanisms of capitalism to commit imperialism at some point to suit growth and profit.
>But those countries don't have a large Jewish population to speak of.
Again, two imperialized, and two imperialists/beneficiaries of imperialism.
>It's a logical fallacy to attempt to draw paint American foreign policy as a linear trajectory of imperialism that wouldn't have changed regardless of Zionism.
No, it's really not when you actually study US history and the trajectory of imperialist capitalism. Do you really think the US wasn't engaging in imperialism prior to Israel? Are you that historically illiterate? And have you not read Lenin? From what you're stating, it seems like all your posturing about the USSR was nothing more then a dishonest attempt to "appeal" to our sensibilities, because you don't have a lick of Marxist-Leninst theory to you.
>The failures of US intervention in Cuba, Vietnam, and central America had soured the American public's stomach on imperialist wars
No, they really hadn't, not at the time and especially not in terms of Cuba and Central America. If you're are going to take this discussion to further points in time, then you concede that the US was acting as such even before.
>and so Zio scum needed to distract America into adopting their imperialist agenda.
The US government was already on Baird you buffoon. The US was constantly engaging in imperialism, you just don't care about it because all their imperialist activity doesn't suit the narrative you're trying to construct. Not the genocides in Indonesia or the destabilization of South America. Nope, the only time the US ever perpetuated imperialism on a massive scale was from Israel. Again, who are you lying to?
>9/11 gave the Zio scum the raw materials that they would twist and manipulate into tacit approval from the American public to stage war on nation states in the Middle East, under the guise of dire 'national security' needs.
Holy shit, why do you always take things at face value? The government didn't get involved in the middle east because Israel whispered in the need for "national security". It got involved because it both needed a way to rally the US public away from the domestic issues it was facing and the long coming fuck up it had created by aiding the mujahideen against the Soviets, and a way to incorporate major capitalist resource markets in the middle east. Literally the first thing the US did after deploying I Afghanistan for example was to immediately seize and continually patrol oil and poppy fields. Oil for obvious reasons, to put a grip on supply. Poppy fields for opium. No matter what the US will tell you about it "drug war" in the region, opium production increased 30-fold in Afghanistan. Now the US has an opioid crisis, and companies are pumping opioids like no tomorrow with doctors at the behest of pharmaceutical companies prescribing them by the dozen for even the most innocuous of injuries and complaints. Interesting that, huh?
>The 1990s proved that America never would have went along with the this plan had 9/11 not occurred.
The 1990s proves that the US was willing but cautious, and needed a way to either pull it off clandestinely or something to rally people to do it directly. The 1990s entirely proved that things of such scale were on the table, as seen in myriad of the USs interventions post the collapse of the USSR. Or did you forget what happend in Yugoslavia? Or Panama? Or Haiti? Or Somalia? Or Sudan? Or Afghanistan, years before the public war against the Taliban and Al Qaeda had ever started?
>And we know the CIA and Mossad warned the White House of the impending attack before it happened, which fell on deaf, or perhaps complacent ears.
Seems rather stupid if they wanted it to go off without any hitch. The reality is that the US received something that had been coming it's way for years, a boomerang that was entirely of it's orgin and had cultivated to initially fight an enemy that was now dead. A boomerang that had come at a time of preexisting unrest, of troubles in a country that had begun to froment. It's entirely likely that the US knew some major catastrophe was on the horizon, but either they thought themselves unassailable and untouchable in the years following the fall of the USSR, or more maliciously but still likely, hoped something would make its way through the channels to "ameliorate" it's current woes. One more thing. A lot of the conspiracies surrounding 9/11 are "fnords" that are intended to make the actual banal points sound absurd by association. One of those "points" being that of the pilots, none of them were from Iraq or Afghanistan. They were all from Saudi Arabia and the Emirates, US allies. And that's not something that you want to be passed around in common discussion when you're trying to keep that alliance going, now do you?

You have a tendency to keep moving the discussion away from the initial point made, and we've carried this long enough that you've so backtracked from you're intial argument, that you aren't even arguing in regards to whether the Holocaust occured or not. You can't even defend your poster boy Kennedy, so what even are you going to stand on anon? What do you even have to argue, when all your arguments are nothing more then that of misdirection and subject shifting?
>>

 No.364678

>>364105
>The Nazis didn't do nuffin, it was everyone else at fault!!!
The millions of survivors argument makes no sense as there have generally been millions still left after many genocides in the past, Zyklon (or more generally hydrogen cyanide) was well known even before the Nazis as being effective in killing people either as a weapon of war or as a method of execution and isn't an argument regardless as most people weren't killed by gas, the Americans destroying supply lines doesn't negate the fact that the Nazis placed them there to begin with and did not care if they lived or died in a broader context as well as there being overwhelming proof of the execution and purposeful immiseration of Jews and other undesirables as they made their way through Eastern Europe, and prisoners dying while under allied care after being liberated from camps where they were dying is not an argument. "The Greatest Story Never Told" just outright fabricates things in terms of Nazi Germany outside of the Holocaust and lacks concrete sourcing to the vast majority of its claims (economic policy being one), and arguements similar to the ones Cole makes have already been addressed in full in this thread.

Kill yourself uyghur, the Nazis were faggots regardless of the Holocaust or not, even in terms of domestic policy outside of race.
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 No.364734

File: 1625775737949.png ( 541.59 KB , 680x793 , spores.png )

>>353067

ngl i respect the people who are like "yeah we killed them, they were rats and deserved it" more than the denier types, at least they're consistant
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 No.376903

File: 1626258206278.jpg ( 295.79 KB , 610x1085 , 82617da9ce769b024ca7e83987….jpg )

>>353021
>the same nazi paradox
>>353015

No the best part is if you let Nazis run with holocaust denial and accept it then watch them collapse in never ending self contradictions that they create.

Here is the neo-Nazi self contradiction
1) Israel can not be allowed to exist
2) We must get rid of the jews
3) holocaust denial

Here is the self contradiction ask the Nazi what his idea for solving the jew problem is then what are you supposed to do with the jews?


The Nazi will enter endless self contradictions at this point.
Since you realize that the best solution is to simply ship all jews to Israel and deport them to Israel.
They can not answer what to do with the jews.

There are 2 theories here
1) Nazis are really stupid and this stops them.
2) They don't want to say this because of PR or fear.

Basically option 2 is
>The holocaust never happened and I must spend all day denying it
>However lets exterminate the jews for real when we get into power !

Some more dumber nazis let this slip form their talking points. Only if they plan on exterminating the jews ….
WHY ?!
THE FUCK ?!
ARE !
THEY !
OBSESSED !
WITH !
SPAMMING HOLOCAUST DENIAL ALL DAY !!!!!! ?????
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 No.376907

>>353052
>Ask yourself this. If the

Here is the real answer
NO
ONE
GIVES
A
SHIT !
(Nihilism, philosophy)

People where exterminated in all places and times and will be in the future. If it was fabricated or not is irrelevant to our lives. The only ones obsessed over it are holocaust fetishists so Zionists and Nazis.

Can we talk about important things now? Like solving our problems or our current situation ?
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 No.376927

File: 1626259632913-0.png ( 62.44 KB , 416x248 , POP.png )

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>>353095
>MORE PEOPLE HAVE DIED FROM GENOCIDE WITHIN THE PAST 200 YEARS THAN EVERYONE THAT HAS DIED TO EVERY WAR IN HUMAN HISTORY
Correct !
Only here is the thing you don't get its because of rising population levels.

Tell me if there are 10K humans on the entire planet …. How the fuck can you kill more then 10K or even 1 million ? Even if you kill every human and then kill yourself its impossible to kill that many people.

Here is also a fun fact some ancient wars killed less then we have from deaths from cars today. And if humans colonize the galaxy (do the numbers yourself) yearly deaths for accidents will be greater then all genocides of the XX century combined.

BECAUSE THIS IS HOW NUMBERS WORK !
The global population of humans increased without even a dent. All the deaths of the XX century all of its wars are FACTUALLY practically literally nothing !

All the genocides of the XX century and all of it wars are not different from a couple of teenage girls having a pillow fight.

>Nooo the deaths

And if you move your muscles you also kill weak cells in your body.

If Germany lost WW 1 and WW 2 how the fuck does Germany still exist ?! Wars are literally teenage girls having pillow fights.

If the holocaust was so terrible why do jew still exist? This shit does not even register on any scale as bad.

Prehistoric wars where wars of extermination and the people exterminated in them simply don't exist not in history and not in memory. They are no more !
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 No.376942

>>355415

Good post only
> holocaust denial,
This is a Zionist word ! The holocaust only talks about JEW and the extermination of JEWs its a trick.
6 Million Slavs where exterminated by Hitler (3 Million Pols and 3 Million Uranians)
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 No.376951

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>>355415

Good post only you have fallen for a Zionist trick.
>holocaust denial
>a lot more than just the jews were murdered in the holocaust
The holocaust only refers to the extermination of the jews so there can never be a non jewish holocaust.

Hitler exterminated 6 million Slavs
(3 million Pols and 3 million Ukrainians)
And 6 million jews a total of 12 million.

We should stop talking about the holocaust and start talking about Hitlers extermination victims not the holocaust, since its a subset (50%) of Hitlers extermination.
>>

 No.376964

>>376903
they should really be backing Israel to the hilt since that country is basically /pol/ in real life
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 No.376985

>>376964
>is basically /pol/ in real life

Reminds me of the joke
>Quick fellow whites ! Lets race mix ! The jews are opposed to race mixing !
And
>Quick fellow whites ! lets import more migrants the jews want a ethnostate we must do the opposite of what the jews do.

> is basically /pol/ in real life


There is admiration for what Israel is doing on /pol/ FYI.

>they should really be backing Israel

The point is that shipping all jews to Israel is far more easy to sell to jews and everyone today then building extermination camps. Its the easy mode solution to getting jews out of your country.

What is the alternative? Ship jews ? To where? According to /pol/ jews are pure evil so they will be destroying that place. Also far more hard to sell then sending jews to their home country.

This really shuts down nazis and they can not coherently argue at this point.
I mean Hitler and the Nazis where crucial in creating Israel itself so there is another fountain of endless LOLZ for the modern neo-Nazis not to be confused to the OG-Nazis of WW2.


You must understand this self contradiction exists because neo-Nazis are cultivated on propaganda propaganda who contradicts one another. For example the modern neo-Nazi movement is basically Hezbollah and Palestinian propaganda they LARP Nazis online and tell right wing kids to hate Israel since Hezbollah and Palestinians can not win a war with Israel so they try to meme kids over the internet into hating Israel.

Left wing kids get:
>Israel is a racist state ! Give back land to Palestine YES.
Right wing kids get:
>(warmed up Hitlerism) Jews are the most evil creatures and control the world, therefore Israel is evil ! Give back land to Palestine YES.

Its all so simple to understand.
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 No.376988

>>376927
Sort yourself out mate, human beings are not just statistics. It's not okay to slaughter just because the species will survive.
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 No.377002

>>376988
> It's not okay to slaughter just because the species will survive.

So jews don't exist today ? Are jews extinct ? Your argument makes no sense whatsoever.

Jews where not exterminated out of existence in WW2.
Jews exist today in 2021.
Here are facts for you.
How is the Jewish population today? Little change? See the point ?!

>It's not okay to slaughter

Now you are in cope mode, you where indoctrinated into the religion of the
<WW2 wars and/or genocides are so terrible
Probably by a christian who then wanted to follow that one up with
<This is because we abandoned god

>It's not okay to slaughter

The original argument was about numbers. That one got debunked fast now you are moral fagging.

>It's not okay to slaughter

Get a grip on yourself ! In ancient times there are nations who where exterminated and ZERO people from that nation survived ZERO. Yet the holocaust is so terrible because the jewish race quite literally got a hard kick in the ass from Hitler? While other races where LITERALLY exterminated out of existence and are dead ?

Do you know how many cells die in your body when you get kicked in the ass ? Really hit hard ? This is your argument.
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 No.377006

>>376988
>human beings are not just statistics.
<Noo stop using facts and numbers to prove more facts
<The holocaust is the worst thing in history ever because because it simply is !

People who get indoctrinated by Zionists like this really need to learn to wake up.
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 No.377019

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>>377002
Are you a nutter or what? Nobody claimed the Jews were wiped out by the holocaust, also it's a bit gauche to say what is 'the worst thing in history' but arguably Generalplan Ost was worse and killed more people.

And yeah, races or peoples have been completely exterminated from the world before, does that mean we should repeat that just because it already happened?

>>377006
You can accept that the holocaust happened and was bad without being a zionist FFS.
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 No.377025

>>376951
Thing is, the world doesnt care at all about the slavocaust.
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 No.377035

>>377025
It's definitely a bit fucky how the holocaust has basically been appropriated by Jews when nearly as many non-Jews also died, but eh
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 No.377041

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>>376988
>>377019
>holocaust happened
I do. 6 million jews dead no debate.
>and was bad
Worse then the literal and real exterminations that ended with ZERO survivors of these people and races ?

>zionist

I suspect your attitude is inspired by Zionists unless you grew up on another planet with no contact to western media or talks of the holocaust until you turned 30 or something.

>>377025
>the world doesnt care at all about the slavocaust.
Yawn. So the Zionists don't care about 6 million dead Slavs, Yawn so we don't care about 6 million dead jews simple as that.
Hitlers extermination VS Hitlers extermination.
6 million VS 6 million.

Your move.
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 No.377043

>>377041
So can we not acknowledge the holocaust is bad unless it's literally the single most bad terrible thing in history?
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 No.377048

>>377035
>ews when nearly as many non-Jews also died, but eh

Nearly ?! 6 million VS 6 million.

>Jews

This is the most important thing to point out to counter Zionist propaganda. Not to engage is stupid holocaust denial you have the numbers and Zionist holocaust propaganda can not deal with the numbers 6 million VS 6 million same Hitler.
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 No.377056

>>377043
Lets see:
>>377035

<He He He LEL no one cares about 6 million dead Slavs killed by hittler

Then
>>377043
<Oi my 6 million killed jews are magic ! Start feeling bad !

You Zionist tricks are getting boring. You don't care about 6 million killed Slavs we don't care about 6 million killed jews got a problem with that?

How about I go right back at you?!

<So can we not acknowledge the slavocaust is bad unless it's literally the single most bad terrible thing in history?
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 No.377058

>>377056
I think both are bad?
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 No.377060

>>377058
>I think both are bad?

Who was that guy then >>377025 ?
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 No.391682

>>354635
>Literally only one of the mentioned groups has been victim of a genocide
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 No.391683

>>377060
Not the same person?
You fucking stupid animal, that person’s point was clearly that no one acknowledges the genocide against slavs, not that said genocide didn’t matter, you stupid cunt
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 No.391911

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>>377056
you're honestly just retarded and illiterate. The point they were blatantly making was that a great deal more people were killed in the holocaust than just jews.
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 No.396667

>>355012
Sure, but are we going to deny the Holocaust just to own the libs now?

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