/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>379173
>He also thought spacetime couldn't be curved and atoms weren't made from more fundamental particles.
No he didn't retard.

>>379828
>He was a genius inventor that deserves his hero status, if you abuse it to push pseudo science you will damage his reputation.
>>>Reddit

>>379173
>>379173
>>379833
Also:

Was Einstein wrong? Why some astrophysicists are questioning the theory of space-time
May 22, 2021

>To better understand the universe, we may need to kill off one of the most important theories of all time.

https://www.space.com/end-of-einstein-space-time

>>379836
Thought this was an interesting relevant quote since this thread is titled "meta-physics"

>Tesla said this about relativity: “[Einstein’s theory of relativity is] a magnificent mathematical garb which fascinates, dazzles and makes people blind to the underlying errors. The theory is like a beggar clothed in purple whom ignorant people take for a king… its exponents are brilliant men, but they are meta-physicists rather than scientists.”

Meta-physics is just a dumb sciencey buzzword for fake.

>>379833
>Reddit
what non argument.
trying to do science on "non-physical phenomena", is going to lead to pseudo science.

It didn't? Metaphysical woo woo remained popular for decades after quantum mechanics. The questions asked by metaphysics are not disproven by physicalism, or any particular observation therein. The only problem is pseuds and the stench of positivism trying to make a point very, very badly. Anyway, arguments against metaphysics predate QM.

>>348275
There is an actual observation and theory about matter and energy that QM is trying to answer, but in the vulgar imagination all talk of matter is replaced with this dogmatic view in which technocratic experts are treated like scripture. You're not allowed to ask why someone is making the supposition that there are such things as atoms. You would think if kids were taught the atomic theory, they would talk about Dalton's experiments and why he came the conclusion that atoms exist. But if you get the low-level explanation, it's just "atoms exist because we say so and it's in the Bible". Maybe the way it is taught changed, but science was taught in this extremely dogmatic way on purpose. It gets worse with biology, which is especially bad since biological cells are much more complex than particles and biological science rests on shakier foundations.

>>348341
Uh… no. This is what I'm talking about when I say science is taught in the most ridiculous way possible. I'm not bright at all, but the way science was taught never sat well with me. I had to learn from conversations because the schools do not teach and we live in the Blackest Reaction. I shouldn't have to, if information was presented in any sort of coherent framework, but the foundation of fascist education is that science is replaced with "The Science".

>>348482
Reminder that "molecular biology" was a buzzword invented by the Rockefeller think tank guys, to attempt to further reify the genetic theory / eugenics thing they wanted to do. They have almost no idea about how the genetic material creates the finished organism. It's basically at the level of swapping out strands of DNA and hoping to find correlations. They've been clinging for dear life to Down Syndrome (hence the extreme hatred of those people, the modern day lepers of humanity). Eugenics hasn't found any further "success stories" despite over a century of trying. And then, Down Syndrome is a birth defect from an extra chromosome, so you never actually root it out.

>>379836
>Modular space-time theory can accommodate such behavior by redefining what it means to be separated. If space-time emerges from the quantum world, then being closer in a quantum sense is more fundamental than being close in a physical sense
That's basically inventing more spacial dimensions, physical space and quantum space.
They replaced Einstein's Space-Time with Space-Space-Time.

>>379870
based

>>379836
Do understand how physics is done and what models are? Einstein isn't wrong his models are just incomplete.

>>379208
Tesla was a brilliant crank who lost his mind in old age, and a far better engineer than a physicist. Many of his technological and scientific ideas have been proven impractical or false respectively. Quit treating him like some scientific Jesus, he was extremely important for contribution to electrical engineering, but is probably one of the most overhyped scientists in history.

>>379859
>But if you get the low-level explanation, it's just "atoms exist because we say so and it's in the Bible". Maybe the way it is taught changed, but science was taught in this extremely dogmatic way on purpose.
That wasn't what I was taught. I was given lessons on the gold foil experiment, rutherford, etc.
I have no idea what hellhole school you went to but I was never stopped from asking the hard questions in science classes and often encouraged by my teachers to look up information in the school library on named experiments that dealt with questions I had asked that went beyond the scope of the current lesson.

>>380889
>I have no idea what hellhole school
American school most likely.

>>380889
General ed classes. They aren't interested in telling you the history of these things, but then most of the people in that class are not curious and don't want to be there at all. But from what I saw of the advanced kids, it isn't much better, and it isn't any better in any other country. The dogmatic approach to science is demanded by the political and economic order we live in, and by the dominant institutions. Even if they will really say "well these are the experiments", mass education and propaganda involves a deliberate reduction of scientific knowledge to impress upon people that "The Science" is a priesthood. Many of the advanced kids get a more elaborate version of this religion, and selection for "advanced" status has more to do with obedience to the regime and inherited status than any actual ability. So, intelligence itself is associated with this incredulous following of dogma, and things which are not hard to figure out - that doctors primarily scam the shit out of the suckers who think they're getting treatment - are mystified and we're not allowed to say what is plainly happening. A vast conspiracy demands we stay silent and refrain from acknowledging the atrocities of eugenics. If we did acknowledge those atrocities, then rebellion would be demanded and a lot of heads must roll.

>>380889
For the really low underclass, there IS no "education" as suck. Special education classes are akin to the methods used by slavery to break slaves into the system, by promoting indolence and the most extreme incuriousity. Some gems I got in there were "you learn 90% of your vocabulary before age 6", "6 and 7 go into a shoe and then they're 42", and other maladaptive methods that were intended for further retard people who were struggling. If you dared fight it, you would be humiliated and punished. Oh, and no private school will take you without a bribe, so you are FORCED to take the so-called public education or nothing at all, and you are effectively marked down and forbidden from any further education under ANY circumstances. Employers will also be aware of your status, and datamining has secured the panopticon. Regular hunting, slave patrols, and routine brutality towards this underclass is mandated and eagerly embraced by the majority. This is why I get to hear, day after day, people who openly announce they want to rape, enslave, and kill me and everyone like me, and I have to accept this as normal and desirable. If this world-system were to crack even one bit, it would undermine literally everything about the social order. Their sense of themselves rests on making sure I fail, and especially that I am not seen succeeding or even experiencing some small bit of happiness. Eugenics demands such a world, and demands expanding the underclass, in order to modify behavior and maintain its segregation of society.

>>380889
I should qualify this though that at the time, I was over trying to learn anything and was already suicidal. I was long past caring that I was being denied a place in the world. I just wanted it to be over, knowing that there is no hope and there is no end, and the best I can ever have is some small happiness in private, away from people and society, the beast of screaming eugenics that permeated the air and the land and the sea. There is no happiness except the small shred that could be found alone, and I have not changed in that view to this day. Fixing society would only mean that the most egregious elements are kept at bay, because keeping eugenics will mean nothing but ruin for everyone. That's the best that can be hoped for. The thought that the state, an instrument of class rule, could be any path to the good, is laughable to the experience of the vast majority of humanity. So is this infantile belief in "natural social order" which tells us people are intrinsically collective (and thus they must, somehow, obey a clear hierarchical authority commanding the people like the nerve endings of a body, the corporatist view which is taken for granted by far too many).

That said, the information was out there, and I still had enough curiosity to ask what all this science meant, even at that time. But I sure as hell wasn't learning it at school, or through any of the authorities. We live in a fascist country, in a fascist planet and a fascist society. All other forms of thought have become completely inadmissible in the social sphere. It is only now that the formal political system is matching what has been a reality for the past several decades, that has been pushed very aggressively and has a larger (but not majoritarian) base that is consciously elevated and empowered for the fascist, eugenicist creed. In the long term, the fascists want to make scientific information completely inaccessible, and put an end to what little scientific knowledge does grow. "Science" as a useful method is anathema to the values of eugenist society. There is only "The Science", and the use of that terminology is a deliberate assault on the scientific method as something accessible to any rational person. Those considered "super-rational", above the general populace who are deemed retarded (and they consider anyone who isn't one of them retarded, just look at how much they shit on normal people), have the same interest in defending this madness as those who were invested in any other slavery. They utter their filth not out of zealous belief, but with a shit-eating grin. They KNOW exactly what they are doing and brag about it. The sadism is central to this eugenicist nightmare world, and sadism is promoted to the highest of virtues, one promoted in mass entertainment. The futility of any decency is emphasized over and over again.

Anyway, even if schools had any interest in teaching anything - and I get the sense that they're disappointed that the intellectual rot is affecting their research slaves and their ability to develop new weapons - the influence of eugenic rule and its incentives promotes retardation. It demands science be made proprietary and the domain of an elite few. And when you do look at science, its institutions are obsessive about control and eliminating any barrier between the master's will and all the natural objects of the world. It never was about some pursuit of "pure knowledge". Science does offer us a means to accumulate knowledge of the natural world, but like any intellectual production, the institutions of science are essentially religious institutions. The popularization of science was only part intended to allow some democratization of knowledge, and this has been replaced steadily with dogmatic science, where people are lumps of flesh to be processed and worked on by the will of the philosopher-kings. That's where you get this moronic positivist drivel about quantum mechanics saying anything about metaphysics.

>>379870
>They have almost no idea about how the genetic material creates the finished organism. It's basically at the level of swapping out strands of DNA and hoping to find correlations.
Picrel is a quick reminder for Eugene

>>381325
They still don't know what the DNA is doing to create the finished product. They're literally just saying "here's a snippet of DNA that correlates to a think, but it just works, trust us". If you actually asked questions about the development of an organism though, you're forced to acknowledge environmental effects, developmental disorders, and so on.
This becomes problematic when you seek to create a genetic caste system based on the belief that developmental disorders are "purely genetic". Eugenics demands of the lower castes the most abject slavery. If this slavery were not hereditary, it would undermine the eugenic institutions, and thus the lynchpin of ruling class dogmas. It would open the door to outright rebellion, and the Galtonians being purged from power. Since the Galtonians are responsible for many, many atrocities - two world wars and working on a third at the least - retribution would be most exemplary if it ever came to pass.

>>381335
>They still don't know what the DNA is doing to create the finished product
The process hasn't been fully mapped out yet, but it clearly is guided by certain sets of genes.
>"here's a snippet of DNA that correlates to a think, but it just works, trust us"
But it works lmao. We can make animals grow limbs where they aren't supposed to grow. Not understanding every step that happens along the way, doesn't disprove that or should we start denying the existence of black holes, just because we don't fully understand them yet?
>you're forced to acknowledge environmental effects, developmental disorders, and so on
That's like crashing your car into a wall and complaining to the manufacturer, that the blue prints no longer line up with your cars new arrangement of parts.
Take your meds

>>381417
If you're proposing that genes are like computer code, and then claiming that you just mash fragments of code together and hope it makes a program, you'd be called a shitty software engineer.

Also, your claim that you can just insert a limb into an animal by splicing DNA is patently bullshit. For one, what you can splice with current DNA editing techniques is very, very small fragments.

Genetics has stuck to the fruit fly because the results can't be reproduced in other organisms. It's often no more than a just-so story, and even then they're still only looking for correlations. They're desperately clinging to the fruit fly experiments to salvage the sinking ship that is genetics.

Finally - those are still clearly antennae, rather than legs. They even have to fudge what the results of the experiments are to maintain the "genes are like blueprints and lego blocks" myth. Insect antennae iirc can be quite variant - I'm not the biology expert. The geneticists are still stuck with trial and error in a hope to find what, if anything, prompts the growth of antennae in a particular way. They are unlikely to find any answers with the paradigm they have adopted.

If you want to know what Quantum Mechanics is about read this book

>This book is both apparently ambitious and modest in its aims. Ambitious, as it attempts to achieve something that has been declared impossible by some of the greatest physicists since the 1920s: making sense of what quantum mechanics really means. But modest, because that goal was actually already attained many years ago in the work of Louis de Broglie, David Bohm, and John Bell. I will simply try to explain what they achieved.

>This book is written especially for all those who do not see what the theory means. No prior knowledge of quantum mechanics is required. Most of the technical parts have been put in appendices, which can be skipped.

>>380955
eugene write a book.

>>381505
My boy Zakharov.

>>381489
Based Anon. Will read.

>>381470
Look Eugene, the fly had legs for antenna, your sophistry won't disprove that. They even gave it an extra pair of wings while they were at it.
>Genetics has stuck to the fruit fly because the results can't be reproduced in other organisms
Genetics has stuck to the fruit fly because it is the ideal animal for this kind of research. Similar experiments have also been done on mouse embryos.

>>381592
So you made freaks. What's the advantage?

>>382120
Not them, but I think he's just trying to prove a point to eugene.

>>382120
The point is that there are material advantages to experimenting with fruit flies, such as their quick life cycle which makes studying the generational effects on them ideal, not that genetics is some kind of voodoo quackery.

>>382135
I want a material justification for engineering a dude with five dicks ASAP.

>>382145
You didn't answer the claim I made though, in that you don't really know why "legs" grow there. You just put in the DNA fragment and saw there were "legs". There's no translation from "genetic code" to "finished product". Usually when you speak of computer code, you can disassemble it down to single machine instructions, and you know what those machine instructions are. You'd have to insert a computer in the cell and then the effects of feeding it the algorithm of DNA. If the DNA=genes theory is true, this should be fairly trivial, or at least some forward progress would be made. But all we have to this day are correlations - likely because the "computations" being output involve something more than DNA, and are contingent on other cells of the body. When you're talking about even the structure of antennae, you're talking about a process which is more than DNA computation. Perhaps you could break it down to DNA computation in an ideal simulation, but we don't live in ideal simulations, and you're left with the question of how much environment affects such development. Believe it or not, geneticists do ask this question if they are honest scientists, but they still lack particularly good answers. Therefore, what can be gleaned from DNA is not very much, except for correlations of traits that we just assume correspond to "genes" of the ideal sort. In short, the vulgar interpretation is just seeking to made Mendel real by saying "DNA is computer-gene, trust us guise". The actual explanation is much more complex, but it would start to ask questions of how much these genetic theories are actually worth, especially when eugenics makes bold claims about hereditary genius (and did so as its first objective, per Galton). Those eugenicist claims are still held by the intellectual classes to this day, and they're never giving them up without a fight.

I finally understand why people hate this eugenics-kun retard.

>>382165
Eugene, have you ever shared your origin story of how you became to hate eugenics, as you understand it, with this passion of thousand suns? Like, why can you only find happiness alone away from other people? Not trying to be a dick if you don't want to talk about personal trauma, just trying to keep up on /leftypol/ lore.

>>382268
Honestly, I've hated it in my bones for as long as I can remember, even before I knew history and what things were. I remember being put in a special school that was a nightmarish, silent place, in which all the problematic kids were warehoused. Day in, day out of the same rudimentary math problems. No instruction, no meaning, no direction, no hope. I remember being punished harshly for uttering a single word. I wrote in multiplication problems (this was me at age 4-5) because I was bored and I thought showing them would get me out of the retard box. There was no instruction in language that I recall whatsoever. No alphabet teaching (fortunately I had learned those letters many months before), not even an attempt to teach grammar, and since you couldn't talk it's hard to imagine how anyone could learn any English in that environment. The only thing I do remember is that it was so quiet you could hear a pin drop, and I have to believe every single one of those warehouse kids were traumatized so that they don't dare speak in anything above a whisper. I vaguely recall aides supposedly helping kids, but this was sporadic and it could not constitute any sort of meaningful education. I think it was more a matter of the aides working with the most difficult kids with severe learning disabilities, basically teaching them how to shit and piss (this is a thing schools have to do in the severe cases).

There's a longer story of hatred, breakdowns, preferring to rot away rather than endure the sight of people, with basically no progress until 6 years ago. Then I hit rock bottom, told myself my life was effectively over, and indulged more in history and theory simply so I would condemn every single effort of humanity and what it has led to. Learning about history has had ups and downs and given me a little vigor on occasion, but over the past couple of years I have become more convinced than ever that humanity really has chosen fascism and eugenics in the end, and that they've really done it to themselves. There is only in the end one plausible explanation - the same thing that had disgusted me to my bones so many years ago. I had accepted long before that the worst mistake I ever made was letting other people tell me my instinct and first convictions were wrong. Had I accepted that the hatred in my bones was correct from the start, instead of believing the lies the whole world was feeding me, I and everyone else would have been spared so much misery. All existing philosophy and ideology was skirting around something that to my experience was very basic, and while I had a little hope for communism once I started reading it, it turned out my first instincts (after debullshitting the anticommunist propaganda I halfheartedly believed) were right, that the communists really were far afield from what the real question was. I felt in 2019 that this would go on forever, and humanity would keep on having no indication that conditions had changed, even though I had seen rapid decay since 2000. The one upside about coronavirus is that it has vindicated me, when the eugenics and everything I loathe about this entire social order is so in-your-face and obvious that even normies are seeing the eugenics and calling it such. There were faint rumblings in the few years before that there was something really foul afoot and the march of eugenics was becoming clear, and that there were some people who were seeing just how dire the situation was. Those people were more on the left, or what I thought was the left. One of the bad things about corona world is that it has shown the left's fecklessness and just how many are really on the side of humanity, which is far fewer than I expected. Even when I disagreed with the communists and socialists, I believed that many of them were still decent or at least aligned to some decency and that the growing socialist wave would have resulted in meaningful demands. I've been disappointed with how rapidly so many on the left carried water for the most reactionary agendas, and how it became all too clear in 2020. I was never amenable to anything at all on the right (despite the accusations that I'm a secret Republican), and if you ever see Michigan Republicans you've seen some of the worst specimens of humanity. I have noticed at least that there are a few with rightoid sympathies who seem to get what's up and that it's time to worry, but these people have been left in the lurch by Trump and everyone that they thought were on their side. I am still surprised with how quickly the fashoid right sucked up to the regime, after their performance in January. It should make that Trumpoid bitch dying more insulting to them, because she died for Trump's faggotry and nothing else. It's a monument to stupidity and all the waste. Wiser people tried to warn them that Trump was a con man, but they like sheep went right to the slaughter, and undermined their position to agitate against the regime. They can't help themselves.

>>382452
I'm sorry this happened to you. Amerikkka treats those it deems 'not normal' in the most inhuman way possible. It makes sense that you hate eugenics this much, since the abuse you suffered originated from it.
You are still wrong about molecular biology tho

>>382505
It's not just an American thing. Eugenics is a global movement and its class basis is a force in technocratic society. In the end, you could only hope that the new classes, the professionals, were enlightened enough to see the trap of their educational institutions and the threat full eugenics would pose to their very survival. By and large, they did not choose wisely, and this has been fatal. It all comes down to this crisis decade, and the pieces are in place for this new class to choose eugenics overwhelmingly, and with it, the last possibility of freedom from class rule will be abolished for a very long time.

>>382505
Should also add that molecular biology is purely a buzzword. You don't need "molecular biology" to ascribe to genetics or the existence of DNA. It's a way PR draws a parallel to the controversy around quantum physics (see above). It's a way of telling people it's at such a small level that only the experts (those experts advanced by the oligarchy specifically, since many scientists were skeptical about this initiative or at most knew it was just PR and kept on doing what they were doing). The deeper meaning of "molecular biology" is that it is completing a cycle in which human life and human thought are fused with the fundamental building blocks of life itself - that is, that we are to treat DNA as molecules that form the true basis of all life in the universe, a fundamental form of matter. It's going beyond just the genetic theory and moving to a wholly DNA-centered view of life that would be alien even to the early geneticists. Early genetics supposed genes were a cause of life's hereditary traits, but they were never assigned the kind of weight "molecular biology" assigned to it. If you remember the really stupid and infantile nature vs. nuture argument (one originated in eugenics btw), so-called molecular biology is staking its claim that nature completely trumps nurture, and that life itself is nothing more than genes competing in pure Social Darwinism. This reaches its culmination in the 2000s with Dawkins and the extreme mystification of the gene in the vulgar imagination. It doesn't even have a bearing on actual genetics and what you can do with DNA splicing. It's more a buzzword to create an impression that DNA and genes are something they actually aren't.

>>382500
Not Cool.

>>381592
lol cope

eugene is correct

>>382614
do you have formal training? it took me until my professors were unable to answer questions to realize they don't know whats going on

>>384541
I have little in the way of formal education and biology is not my specialty. I don't think this take re "molecular biology" is very controversial though. The scientific dogma isn't entirely written by the oligarchic foundations. I think a lot of people just hear "molecular biology" and think "biology of really small things", skipping over the implications of it if they try to process what it means and what exactly the oligarchs are pushing. And this is about PR more than what the institutions of science, like the universities, actually believe about biology. Most biology, despite the influence of neo-Darwinism and the widespread acceptance of it, doesn't deal with genetics or DNA. The overwhelming application of biology is to specialize in particular organs or particular types of animals, and life is still defined in biology by what it does rather than it being constructed of genetic components. Even I got that in science and biology classes - maybe it is different since Bill Gates and co. took over the science curriculum completely, but they weren't talking about the eternal gene with religious reverence the way a lot of pop-science and PR does.

I think the academy knows very well about these things, but there are layers of obfuscation because the political system is reliant on essentially eugenicist arguments about humanity and society. If you talk to actual biologists and really pick at their brains, they'll tell you it's actually more complex than that, and if you're studying living things you're talking primarily about processes in the here and now. The genetic theory started as a theory of heredity, and most people can accept that there are hereditary traits in living things. The decision to make biological heredity the basis for a whole political order is a deliberate one. Part of how resistance to eugenics is retarded is that even the "critics" of eugenics accept uncritically the presumption that hereditary inequality necessarily leads to political inequality and that this political inequality would be a good thing if it were biological inequality were established as fact. In doing so, the "critics" of eugenics are undermined from the start, and form nothing other than a straw man to be knocked down. This theater has been played out deliberately since the end of the second world war. Before then, eugenic dogma was enshrined in the universities for very clear reasons of class domination, and it never has left. Even if the university students can be honest about what biology really means, they're never giving up eugenics without a fight, because to do so would undermine the institutions which give them everything. Even those university students who were shitcanned by the system, who've had their lives broken, can never fully get over the indoctrination, because it is so thorough in our society today. The only thing that would overcome this would be to present a clear case that eugenics has been ruinous to humanity and that a better way is possible, preferably one without overbearing oligarchic institutions commanding us like cattle. And that would mean that the political question is up for debate again, along with the social question.

so I had some beers with a laser phycisist friend of mine today who is a bit of a lib, but he admitted that he favors the Bohmian interpretation of QM. what does this mean?

>>392902
Not answering question because i do not know but asking one. What is your chance of Communism-Pilling your friend?

>>365665
>I have to admit i don't understand why the higgs boson particle was called the god particle
From a common and prevalent misunderstanding. The discoverer called it "the goddamned particle" because of its elusiveness and shortened it to "god" for public tastes.

>>392902
>Are lasers, communist rays ?
probably ;)
think about it, photons that share the same wavelength all going into the same direction
all lasers are red
>is my friend a crypto communist
probably not if he drank beer, as everybody knows communists exclusively drink vodka
>he favors the Bohmian interpretation of QM. what does this mean?
The lasers got to him ?
I'm making fun of you, because Bohm was canceled by McCarthyism and had to go to Brazil to avoid persecution.
It means your friend prefers the materialist interpretation of QM

>>392909
he wasn't too opposed to /cybersoc/ ideas, especially in the context of climate change mitigation. he was also curious about Capital, so I'm thinking of gifting him my copy of volume 1
>>393242
>not calling it "the fucking particle"
imagine what could have been
>>393659
>all lasers are red
he works in infrared even. ultracommunism confirmed
>It means your friend prefers the materialist interpretation of QM
as a physicist should. I also told him about QBism and he thought I was shitting him

This thread is dumb

Start poo poo pee pee posting

>>382165

you can literally look up what protein each gene codes for and carry it through the process to see what impact it'd have on the organism
it's been doable for years
we aren't living in the 1990s anymore grampa

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1440-169X.2004.00735.x

>>408709
WRONG!