No.117785[View All]
Gender abolitionists claim that gender itself is a social construct. This is true, gender is a social construct - it is the roles you play in society based on your behavior, your hormone levels, your dress, your appearance.
HOWEVER, gender is not yet capable of being abolished.
Why?
Because nonbinary individuals and non-dysphoric transitioners are not yet valid.
As it is in the western world, no insurance company is going to be willing to cover your appearance changes without good reason. Imagine if you walked into your doctor's office one day and said, "i would like to start feminizing hormone therapy and get cosmetic surgery performed in order to more closely match my ideal appearance, and no i'm not dysphoric, i don't want to commit suicide due to my current appearance, and i don't believe in gender norms but i would appreciate it if you helped me look pretty in a dress."
Does that sound absurd to you? Only transgender, dysphoric individuals are properly cared for in the medical system. This is indisputable.
No, gender abolition without transition will not make anyone feel better. If a 40 year old man with a beard throws on a dress and demands you treat him like you would treat anybody else, you know as well as i do that you wouldn't. You'd bully them along with everyone else until they killed themselves.
Until gender abolitionism becomes materially feasible, i will be transgender, because i like my hormone pills.
75 posts and 22 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.>>
No.117925
>>117916uygha everybody knows it is impossible before the revolution stfu and go read the xenofeminist manifesto instead of being such an annoying pseud
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No.117927
>>117919Male privlaige and I don't care enough to explain it to you if you lived on this planned for 22 years and havent noticed it yet, than its your fault.
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No.117929
>>117922yeah but what if we call ppl with big milkers "women" and those with fat cocks "men"
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No.117935
>>117930I work for minimal wage and live in governamt housing, fuck of.
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No.117938
>>117935not as bad as being a welfare receiver
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No.117939
>>117923You've probably not been around long enough to realize that every single time i argue in favor of trans rights, i do it from a class perspective instead of a idpol perspective.
>>117920>>117924>>117925Then i hope we can settle on "trans rights until gender is abolished" and i won't have to see anymore threads about it
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No.117940
>>117935and your btain is still consumed by ideology SAD!
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No.117945
>>117929I get what you mean
And I guess i seecwhere you are coming from
Gender insofsr as that seems of no issue though
Its ascribing expected behavior from thst in a manor similar to physiognomy that will not exist
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No.117947
>>117939Just read a book.
>>117938Socialism isnt about arguing whos more opressed, and I'm not arguing I'm more opressed, just that I'm opressed in ways you are not, with is a fact I don't why thats so insulting to some men
>>117940You are an idiot.
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No.117948
>>117939So trans-dengism
Based
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No.117959
>>117957Why are transhumanists obsessed with this random british guy? Also internalized homophobia, is a leading cause of transgenderism OP is actually a perfect example.
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No.118005
>basing validity on a capitalist institution
FUCK YOUUUUUU
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No.118020
It literally starts with you. Just stop giving a shit what you are called and wear what you want.
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No.118464
>>117939why do these posts not even try to do some sort of Marxist cultural analysis on the topics they talk about?
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No.118571
>>117855>"gender abolitionists" don't want you to look cuteall the ones I've read are marxist/materialist and agree with you
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No.118576
>>118575gender construction is an innate human behavioral trait. Stop being transaphobic
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No.118580
Gender won't be abolished in communism, you will have ACTUALLY IMPORTANT shit to worry about instead of this cringe nonsense. I'd unironically rather have /pol/ converts instead of chappos in this bitch, at least /pol/uyghurs are FUCKING ECONOMICALLY INCENTIVIZED
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No.118587
>>118576i can tell you definitely read all those articles in 3 minutes
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No.118594
>>118587doesn't excuse the transphobia. gender is real, trans individuals have to experience the wrong gender identity put on them daily. your articles don't refute that
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No.118601
>>118594the authors are trans and marxists who agree with shay's points but consider themselves abolitionists
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No.118616
>>118575I read the first article, it is making 2 claims that undermine the intent of the author.
1. medical treatments for people that are not sick
2. medical treatments like a consumer choice
Anybody who wants to draw hostile conclusion could say that it is a argument for a lifestyle, they could argue that people that are not sick and reject medical diagnosis do not need medical treatments. Who ever wrote this did not think this through.
What i find highly immoral is that there is no consideration given for people who might be in a different situation then the author, some people might be in error and not benefit from this treatment. If a doctor does this double checking procedure it might spare them a lot of suffering.
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No.118625
>>118601then they deny trans peoples right to exist as their real gender. Gender is innate, in the brain of every human, to abolish it is to abolish human nature and trans peoples identities aswell. To be a gender abolitionist is inherently transphobic.
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No.118628
>>118625yeah, no
did you even read the thread?
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No.118637
>>118625Litteraly overdosing on idealism.
Religious belives are also in our brains, doesnt make all of them real dumbass.
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No.118639
>>118628yes
gender identity comes from the brain. Do you think trans people are just making it up?
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No.118643
>>118639I hope you know you're not a marxist.
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No.118644
>>118639yes
perception comes from the brain. Do you think schizophrenic people are just making it up?
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No.118650
>>118625 (me)*
>>118637No I am right and you are wrong. My thoughts exist in my real head so they are for real. How can they be illusions if I'm really here and thinking them. You on the hand have wrong thoughts so you logically can't even exist in reality. It's called materialism. Maybe read a book?
*I'm not cis-118625, but transitioning into 118625.
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No.118654
>>118650Your thoughts are real, but that doesnt mean they describe reality, I'm just gonna assume you're trolling.
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No.118656
>>118650The thought's mental representstion is real
Not what the thought is interpreted to mean
Like, if i think im a dinosaur
There is some set of neurons and their connections you could theoretically point to yes, but the thought itself is not real.
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No.118658
>>118625>then they deny trans peoples right to exist as their real gender.They need my approval to exist? What does my personal approval or lack of it change about what they are?
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No.118659
>>118644and their identity is from the gender they were born, not the one assigned by someone else at birth. Thus they are that gender. Gender abolition gets rid of that entirely to eliminate gender entirely, and try to delegitimize trans peoples truths of being born the gender they know they are.
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No.118666
>>118659What exactly does it mean to "identify" with a gender? That you like the color pink or like trucks over Barbies?
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No.118667
10. Gender only materially exists insofar as the sexes can be assigned certain roles for their physiological ability in relationship to the needs of society. A man is usually stronger than a woman so a man hunts and does difficult labour, but most people don't hunt anymore and difficult labour is becoming more obsolete. A woman has children and is vulnerable, but that vulnerability becomes less severe as daily life becomes safer. The materially origins of gender will be mostly abolished when the physiological differences between men and women are overcome, and from there it's just a problem of ideology.
One point of clarification for 10: the reason why I use "gender" instead of just "sex roles" with regards to the material origins of gender is that such roles are intentionally fluid despite being otherwise rigid. The reason why is simply that if lots of men in a tribe go missing or are killed off, the remaining women have to take up their roles. There is plenty of evidence for this and vice-versa throughout human history, and I must repeat once again that such roles are slowly becoming subverted as socially necessary physiological differences are rendered more and more obsolete by technological advancement.
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No.118727
>>118601Gender abolition is a process, not an immediate thing.
Socialism is trans rights, and communism is gender abolition. What does this mean?
This means we must build up the productive forces of gender transition. Hormone therapy and surgery must become cheap, easy to get, and high quality. This, in turn, will promote genderfluidity. Cosmetic changes will then be commonplace, and the distinctions between gender will blur, enabling the total abolition of gender roles and gender itself.
Hence i am a gender dengist, like
>>117948 said.
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No.118739
>>118737At least he namefags so you can filter him like a lot of us already have
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No.118741
>>118650literally idealism
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No.118743
>>118666you just know. Everything with the gender you were assigned doesn't feel like you and the gender you are does feel like you. So you choose to be you
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No.118745
>>118739I still wanna see her nudes tho
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No.118861
>>118727What do you think of HRT being like diabetes in that it requires life long healthcare support similar to insulin to prevent bone problems? Do you think its necessary to fight for universal healthcare first to make sure people don't get fired, lose their healthcare, lose HRT and end up having heart/bone problems and unable to produce endogenous hormones or do you think we should fight for both at once?
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No.118891
>>118861Universal healthcare is more immediately important. For someone who did orchiectomy if they stopped taking hormones they would develop osteoporosis or worse, so it is like insulin once you've past that point. It's not like trans individuals only have trans health concerns either, there's still blood pressure issues and stuff that everybody suffers from, its just that transitioning itself is mostly a medical process and therefore increases the incentive to demand expanded healthcare.
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No.118927
>>118891look how causally these people speak about the creation of eunuchs. They even know how it is best to be done.
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No.118933
>>118891kinda makes it sound like trans people are more(most?) likely to be revolutionary subjects