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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1627539546022-1.jpg ( 147.68 KB , 640x364 , Dday.jpg )

File: 1627539546022-2.jpg ( 72.15 KB , 605x449 , defeat.jpg )

File: 1627539546022-3.jpg ( 391.78 KB , 1200x800 , Soviet offensive through E….jpg )

File: 1627539546022-4.jpg ( 508.58 KB , 1920x1080 , The day of Liberation.jpg )

 No.408692

The defeat of the Soviet's at the end of the Cold war requires we communists to analyze and deduce what alternative actions may have been taken to achieve a better course of history, one where there was no collapse of the socialist camp, and instead a complete victory over the capitalists. I want to focus this thread specifically on the Course of events of the Second world war, and the geopolitical and strategic decisions made by the USSR. Bonus points for avoiding muh great man theory.

I will start: I am convinced that a faction of the Soviet high command that was aware of the events at Tehran should have secretly tipped off the Germans about the DDay landings. They could frame nazi collaborators int the western militaries and send secret diplomatic cables to the Germans convincing them that the leak was from sympathisers in the Soviet military that wanted a Soviet exit from the war and non aggression pact to contain the west. The latter would likely be uncovered at the latest by the end of the war so they would have to frame the West for this as well.

Why do this all? The Soviets had largely defeated the nazi menace on their own in the East and the western front was an attempt by the "allies" to swoop in like a gizzard and eat as much of the collapsing German empire as possible in order to deny it to Germany. Instead Germany would move divisions west fortify the defenses, they are prepared. The allied forces land and are massacred. Almost instantly over a hundred thousand of soldiers lay dead on the beaches, and in shallow waterborne graves, none had managed to make it far past the waterline. The west is shocked, the Army and the civilians are flooded with images of dead troops and the complete defeat of the western advance that had been planned for years. This plan the fools of the west made behind their nations back has sent their young men to the butchers. The west is made to learn the true cost of war. The people are thrown into a rage and the western imperialists geopolitical and strategic power is crippled. The Germans celebrate this small victory and try and gain some concessions from Moscow, however seeing as they are now truly fighting alone, and yet rapidly pouring into the German interior, they will not accept anything other than total and complete victory. They reach Berlin and the German army falls into complete chaos. Much of the Nazi and puppet administration has abandoned their posts and only the most fanatical or desperate of Nazi belligerents fight on in isolated pockets, The Soviets are left to mop up and denazify the rest of occupied Europe and the Red Star hangs high as the masses world over look towards the new world order and the saviours of the human race
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 No.408715

Yes, I'm going to read all this but FFS brevity is the soul of wit.
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 No.408717

File: 1627541638747.jpg ( 146.77 KB , 1280x720 , gigatist.jpg )

>>408715
>Yes, I'm going to read all this
Based, thanks.
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 No.408720

>>408692
>The defeat of the Soviet's at the end of the Cold war requires we communists to analyze and deduce what alternative actions may have been taken to achieve a better course of history

Which rule requires us to speculate on alternate history?

>>408692
Cite primary and secondary sources?

>>408692


>I am convinced that a faction of the Soviet high command that was aware of the events at Tehran should have secretly tipped off the Germans about the DDay landings.

>Why do this all? The Soviets had largely defeated the nazi menace on their own in the East and the western front was an attempt by the "allies" to swoop in like a gizzard and eat as much of the collapsing German empire as possible in order to deny it to Germany. Instead Germany would move divisions west fortify the defenses, they are prepared. The allied forces land and are massacred. Almost instantly over a hundred thousand of soldiers lay dead on the beaches, and in shallow waterborne graves, none had managed to make it far past the waterline. The west is shocked, the Army and the civilians are flooded with images of dead troops and the complete defeat of the western advance that had been planned for years. This plan the fools of the west made behind their nations back has sent their young men to the butchers. The west is made to learn the true cost of war. The people are thrown into a rage and the western imperialists geopolitical and strategic power is crippled. The Germans celebrate this small victory and try and gain some concessions from Moscow, however seeing as they are now truly fighting alone, and yet rapidly pouring into the German interior, they will not accept anything other than total and complete victory. They reach Berlin and the German army falls into complete chaos. Much of the Nazi and puppet administration has abandoned their posts and only the most fanatical or desperate of Nazi belligerents fight on in isolated pockets, The Soviets are left to mop up and denazify the rest of occupied Europe and the Red Star hangs high as the masses world over look towards the new world order and the saviours of the human race

Why speculate on this at all? The scenario of tipping off an amphibious invasion to your enemy to gain a monopoly over their defeat seemd far too specific to be relevant anyhow.
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 No.408723

It's easy to say that the Soviets should have been the ones to finish off the Axis, but material conditions say otherwise. The Soviets probably weren't so eager to lose any more than they already did, which was already quite major, hence their request for the second front to be opened rapidly. And also, even if they did win, they would have been quite weakened, and the capitalists of the world are not the type to hesitate to go attack the USSR after they defeated Germany and Japan. Wasn't it said that the burgers considered execution of nuclear attacks on the USSR after the war, before the Soviets had caught up to the weapons technology? But then again, the Soviets would've had more access to resources and numerous grateful states, so perhaps they'd have more of an advantage over there?
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 No.408725

>>408720
>Which rule requires us to speculate on alternate history?
I think it's worth considering, I believe the Soviets stepping back from class conflict and, especially when the imperialist capitalists were occupied with fighting one another, was a total mistake that enabled both the recuperation of the imperialists and the emergence of revisionist opportunists within the socialist parties themselves

>Cite primary and secondary sources?

There are none, this is speculation. I am posting on leftypol for a reason.

>You can draw more generalized lessons from this, plus enjoy alt history and what ifs, it's a fun topic for me to think about
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 No.408733

>>408723
>It's easy to say that the Soviets should have been the ones to finish off the Axis, but material conditions say otherwise. The Soviets probably weren't so eager to lose any more than they already did, which was already quite major, hence their request for the second front to be opened rapidly. And also, even if they did win, they would have been quite weakened, and the capitalists of the world are not the type to hesitate to go attack the USSR after they defeated Germany and Japan. Wasn't it said that the burgers considered execution of nuclear attacks on the USSR after the war, before the Soviets had caught up to the weapons technology? But then again, the Soviets would've had more access to resources and numerous grateful states, so perhaps they'd have more of an advantage over there?

>The Soviets probably weren't so eager to lose any more than they already did, which was already quite major, hence their request for the second front to be opened rapidly

Yes it makes sense they did in the favour of their own country. Still as unthinkable as it may have been I think they could have had their cake and eat it too, by forcing the west to attack and to lose.
>And also, even if they did win, they would have been quite weakened, and the capitalists of the world are not the type to hesitate to go attack the USSR after they defeated Germany and Japan
Yes but the capitalists were defeated. They lost as many men and resources as they did in our timeline, but were denied any strategic victories. They are still reeling from defeat, and so are forced to wind in any aggression or face collapse. Even a total war with the Soviets would guarantee a continuation and broadening of the class struggle albeit a costly and painful victory for the communist allies.
>Wasn't it said that the burgers considered execution of nuclear attacks on the USSR after the war, before the Soviets had caught up to the weapons technology?
The soviets weren't aware of the wests nuclear capabilities so they would not be so cowed. After the first bomb dropped on them it would only solidify their hatred and resolve. And many the world over would be outraged at the west's nuclear genocide of the heros that saved the world from fascist tyranny. The few bombs themselves lacked destructive potential compared to the full might of the allies convential munitions anyways. The Japanese themselves appeared to treat the nukes the same as the rest of the American bombing, which killed far more people.
>But then again, the Soviets would've had more access to resources and numerous grateful states, so perhaps they'd have more of an advantage over there?
Yes exactly, the majority of the worlds great powers are now Soviet and anti-colonial sentiment would likely be soaring
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 No.408736

File: 1627543214355.png ( 240.34 KB , 585x389 , 4b419cff045468cd0de8f717e3….png )

>>408692
>The defeat of the Soviet's at the end of the Cold war requires we communists to analyze and deduce what alternative actions may have been taken to achieve a better course of history
No it doesn't. The communist movement isn't a historical reenactment society even if many of you treat it that way.
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 No.408737

>>408736
>literally no lessons can be learned though past events and applying the lessons received from praxis

Enlightened being
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 No.408753

File: 1627544283061.jpg ( 223.4 KB , 1024x683 , Soviet monument.jpg )

Does anyone have any critiques or speculation pertaining to the strategic value and feasibility of this idea?
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 No.408757

>>408737
There's a difference between learning from the past and restaging WW2
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 No.408758

File: 1627544575680.jpg ( 36.59 KB , 854x570 , sees your shitty faux cyri….jpg )

>>408756
>iigger
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 No.408759

>>408757
are you always this much of a wet blanket?

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