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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1627532885364.png ( 194.71 KB , 334x349 , givewarachance.png )

 No.408509

I don't understand all the hate between Anarchists, Maoists, Stalinists, Marxists, Left Libertarians etc. I've never seen such splintering and hostility between people who want nearly the same thing. The right wing is far more unified even if they have different beliefs and are just better at getting their message across to the masses. Meanwhile, on leftypol, stalinists are telling Trotsky supporter to go kill themselves.
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 No.408519

>>408509

inb4 someone tells me that anarchists aren't true leftists.
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 No.408525

When you don't have any power in the material world you often seek out petty battles to feel like you're making a difference.
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 No.408584

>The right wing is far more unified
no, they are just better at hiding their infighting. also they're relatively happy so long as they have a daddy on top, even if it isn't their preferred daddy
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 No.408593

>>408587
Если бы у бабушки был хуй, она была бы дедушкой, а не бабушкой
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 No.408598

>>408584

Bernie is barely left wing. In most countries, he would be a centrist.

Bernie might unite liberals together but is that really left wing when they all support capitalism and america's obscenely large military?
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 No.408617

>>408509
It's mostly due to the history of animosity that these tendencies had for eachother. This shit goes back to the founding of the first international with name calling, strawmanning, and a dogmatic view of their tendency. Combine this histories of more political backstabbing, opportunism, propaganda, and combine this with an untempered revolutionary zeal, and you have a recipe for hyper-secretarianism, which has sadly spread to most online communities.
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 No.408619

>>408587
Oh please if Bernie the divisions would still be there, just on different issues and context wrt Bernie.
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 No.408625

>>408587
>Bernie
we don't do succdems here
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 No.408646

>>408509
it's a mix of factionalism and deliberate propaganda pushed from outside. If you don't consider one type of leftist to be "part of us" then you won't be cautious about falling for propaganda about them. This is why anarchists and tankies are redpilled about themselves but immediately fall into bourgeois talking points when talking about each other.

Leftists have everything to gain from working with each other, and everything to lose from fighting their own comrades instead of the liberals and the reactionaries. You shouldn't care about the specifics of the revolution. You should just desire that the proletariat asserts its power as a class and overthrows the bourgeois to create a new stage of society. Whether or not this society looks like the fantasy in your head doesn't matter.

Stop focusing on creating the perfect world and focus on creating a better one. Stop fighting against people trying to create positive social change and start fighting with them.

Obviously though none of this applies to liberals or fascists or whatnot that just call themselves socialists for brownie points. No democrats or strasserists, for obvious reasons.
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 No.408647

>>408509

But i never supported Bernie and don't see him as someone who could have advanced the leftist cause. I want the workers to own the means of production and a proletariat government. Bernie's compromises with Democrats on things like War along with the fact that he is still a Capitalist never endeared me to him. I don't even think most self-proclaimed leftists on this site ever liked him. You are confusing liberalism with socialism without understanding how they are different. The groups i mentioned in the post earlier all believe in the complete abolishment of capitalist classes, of wage labor etc. Liberals want 15 a hour and PTO days. Not the total destruction of heirarchy within companies and for it to be owned by the workers entirely. Nor the worker getting paid the full value of their labor.
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 No.408650

But i never supported Bernie and don't see him as someone who could have advanced the leftist cause. I want the workers to own the means of production and a proletariat government. Bernie's compromises with Democrats on things like War along with the fact that he is still a Capitalist never endeared me to him. I don't even think most self-proclaimed leftists on this site ever liked him. You are confusing liberalism with socialism without understanding how they are different. The groups i mentioned in the post earlier all believe in the complete abolishment of capitalist classes, of wage labor etc. Liberals want 15 a hour and PTO days. Not the total destruction of heirarchy within companies and for it to be owned by the workers entirely. Nor the worker getting paid the full value of their labor
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 No.408655

>>408609
But i never supported Bernie and don't see him as someone who could have advanced the leftist cause. I want the workers to own the means of production and a proletariat government. Bernie's compromises with Democrats on things like War along with the fact that he is still a Capitalist never endeared me to him. I don't even think most self-proclaimed leftists on this site ever liked him. You are confusing liberalism with socialism without understanding how they are different. The groups i mentioned in the post earlier all believe in the complete abolishment of capitalist classes, of wage labor etc. Liberals want 15 a hour and PTO days. Not the total destruction of heirarchy within companies and for it to be owned by the workers entirely. Nor the worker getting paid the full value of their labor
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 No.408656

>Crowned heads, wealth and privilege may well tremble should ever again the Black and Red unite!
t. Otto von Bismarck

Left unity is the only thing the forces of reaction fear, remember that
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 No.408676

>>408656
That's actually not a real quote.
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 No.408680

File: 1627538937488.jpg ( 7.82 KB , 261x190 , Nat_Peterson.jpg )

>>408676
But is it untrue?
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 No.408699

>>408524
You guys seem a little better about it. The core tenets of fascism are pretty universal, unless you get into the weird esoteric stuff. One of the biggest debates on the left is the role of the state and whether it should even exist, this same argument doesn't exist as virulently on the right (well the fascist right at least). Fascism is also just better organized politically right now, at least in the US, the old days of mass communist parties and militant trade unions are gone in large parts of the West. The left doesn't have strong figures/parties to coalesce around like they did in the 20th century. We're is also dealing with encroachment of left liberalism. Whereas fascists are actively converting people from the milquetoast right, the same isn't happening (at least to the same extent) on the left.
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 No.408700

They don't any more than any political group does, it's just a meme. Actually the far right is way worse for this anyways
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 No.408712

There are 4 oficially socialist countries (including China) add 1 or 2 more if we count Vuvuzuela and Bolivia.

How many Nazi countries exist? 0, some people may add Brazil (Bozo is way too unpopular though) and Hungary.

We're still winning.
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 No.408713

>>408711
Yeah I don't agree either.
Some nazis come here to shitpost and rage, those should be banned.
Some nazis come here to debate, they should be tolerated (until they start sperging out and calling names, that's when they should be banned too).

I will make a thread about it tomorrow on /meta/
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 No.408743

>>408713
>I will make a thread about it tomorrow on /meta/

He is a serial ban evader and changes his ip with every post. I have just now made a rangeban to correct this. Of course he's lying, he was originally done in for spamming and false flagging.
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 No.408998

>>408598
>Bernie is barely left wing. In most countries, he would be a centrist.
Not really.
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 No.409007

>>408998
Yes really. He's not even anti-interventionist.
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 No.409029

>>408509
yeah, when you have no coherent ideology and no principle except reacting to your spooks and feelings, its easier to show an united front as long as you're not in power.
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 No.409033

File: 1627563676899.jpg ( 76.65 KB , 600x749 , CIA general interference.jpg )

>>408509
1. Almost every intelligence agency on the planet exists to serve capitalism and do everything in their power to undermine leftist movements. Most notably the CIA which has spent decades figuring out ways to infiltrate and subvert left-wing organizations.
2. Right-wingers have massive financial backing and every single prominent right-winger (politician, media figure, or otherwise) is in it for the money. Almost any divisiveness can be solved with enough money. Just look at the 2016 GOP primary, Trump was vicious against Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, etc yet they fell in line immediately afterwards because they don't have any real pride or principles, they all serve the same masters.
3. People who read a lot, pay attention to the news, care about the issues, etc tend to be VERY opinionated and have a clear understanding of how the world should work. This inevitably leads to friction with other similarly opinionated people.
4. A lack of political victories combined with the world getting noticeable worse year after year has lead to disillusionment and a desire to blame someone or something, resulting in in-fighting. Particularly in the United States whose politics is explicitly designed to keep leftists from gaining power. This is a facet of "cancel culture" as well, basically people will go after those they think can be destroyed, and not those who can't.
5. Social media ruins everything. Twitter is one of the worst places on the internet to have real discussions, just for the character limit alone, yet it has become the center of public discourse. Facebook is a den of nutcases driven by rigged algorithms. YouTube rewards e-celeb drama and demonetizes/shuts down leftists doing actual reporting. etc
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 No.409061

>>408598
Bernie is a fed.
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 No.409064

>>408509
Because only Stalinists are real leftists. Everyone else will get the gulag, especially anarchists and Trotskyists.
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 No.410636

>>409007
yeah but Bernie's version of M4A is actually pretty left wing even by european standards. Hey would be a socdem in europe, you think socdems cant be imperialist?
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 No.410642

>>408625
oh hi Mark.
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 No.410645

>>408700
Pics pls nothing pre-internet, long knives isn't a thread-approriate example
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 No.410648

>>408712
Don't forget the actual existing Anarchist communes and AR's!
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 No.410670

>>408712
>How many Nazi countries exist? 0, some people may add Brazil (Bozo is way too unpopular though) and Hungary.
Twitter tier delusions.
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 No.410677

>>408712
>some people may add Brazil (Bozo is way too unpopular though) and Hungary.
The same people may also wish to add Indonesia. Conservatism is basically everywhere here if you understand American politics as an Indonesian it's like living in the South but it's a country instead of a subregion.
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 No.410683

>>410670
That's why I said 0, but I had to give some countries to the "Nazi" camp because some people say that literal Nazis govern those countries.
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 No.410685

>>409007
Who ever was leftist by your arbitrary standards then?
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 No.410686

>>409061
Nah notna fed just a tierd revolutionary that turned reformist.
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 No.410695

Mental illness, obsolete historical disagreements brought to present day, lies and slander as well as easily exploited retarded babble some have the audacity to call theory riddled with moralism, utopianism and just anticommunism

tl;dr: we're paranoid, stuck in the past, lied about constantly and unscientific in our socialism

>The right wing is far more unified

The right has the appearance of unity while calling for gassing their 'comrades'. Libertarians ruined the common aspirations of power for the christian right and altright (at least according to the alt right), alt-lite tries to appear moderate without being cuckservatives all the while alt-right screech autistically about ethnic, religious and sexual groups they don't like. Ancaps hate minarchists who think ancaps are utopian themselves.
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 No.410708

File: 1627632971347.png ( 1023.58 KB , 850x902 , ClipboardImage.png )

>>410695
>Libertarians ruined the common aspirations of power for the christian right and altright
Do you mean like picrel?
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 No.410723

>>410708
>Do you mean like picrel?
Yes, specifically the bottom part. They blamed libertarians for losing in 2020 and actually started attacking them much like turd parties have gotten attacked and intimidated by bipartisans for a long time.

While a bunch of libertarians joined with the alt-right due to having a shared class basis for their seemingly opposite ideologies, they got made fun of, derided and denounced by libertarians disillusioned by Trump, the alt-right in general and their alt-libertarian former comrades.
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 No.410729

>alt-lite tries to appear moderate without being cuckservatives all the while alt-right screech autistically about ethnic, religious and sexual groups they don't like
So exactly like religious right.
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 No.410762

>>410729
Pretty much, all the while there does exist sort of divide between relright and altright. While the latter show solidarity and identify with the nation or fatherland, subordinating Christianity to their nationalism, the former show solidarity to God and Christendom first and subordinate the nation or fatherland to them.

It's more clear of a divide in Europe where thumb-up the ass conservative christians will be immigration shills and even antiracist all the while hating the shit out of nonbelievers, heretics, faggots, transhumanists, druggies, drunks and whoever else. Think Westboro Baptist Church style christian cuckservative right.
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 No.410776

>>410695
In my country there are three types of right wingers.
>the stooges of the system
Aka the vast majority of right winger no matter ideology, they like cops, get funding from the state, churches and the mafia, they are useless since they are completely controlled by the system
>alt right
Kids who have been radicalized by American internet retardation useless since they do nothing in real life
>actual street level skin heads.
The only ones who actually hate cops and the rich uselles since half of them either turn to the left or to stooges after they get older
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 No.410823

The radical left is a room full of generals arguing with each other over whose war plans are better. They have nothing better to do because all the soldiers (workers) went AWOL back to their jobs and lives.
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 No.410832

>>410762
>immigration shills and even antiracist
But only for those religious shitskins which follow their religion.
Those who don't want their specific religion are evil.
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 No.410848

>>410832
Tbh being racist even in europe at the time is preety hard ,like the average european countries have black athletes in their national teams .
Think that in like france and uk even the right wing parties have minority members ,here in greece golden dawn members used to write book about genociding albanians/eastern bloc immigrants yet today 90% of people under 30 have at least one albanian freind
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 No.410852

>>410848
Also hungary, the ruling write wing party has many romani pms educated by open society(iirc orban himself was funded by soros)
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 No.410873

>>410823
I mean there are plenty of strikes going on right now. If anything it's the opposite, lots of workers but no overarching vision. Arguing over the internet doesn't count as having "war plans".
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 No.413184

>>408509
as Pepe Mujica said recently, "the left unite along ideas, but the right unite according to their shared interest"
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 No.413221

The left have always fought against each other (debates mostly, ideological splits) as early as the 1830s, possibly earlier. I mean by the 1860s the International was split between the Marxists, Prouhonists (left(left prouhonists became anarchists)and right) anarchists, Lassaleans, Blanquists, and many more otherwise.

By the 1890s the left was dominated by the Marxist tendency and by the 1890s we also began to see splits within the Marxist tendency itself between the reformist Marxists and revolutionary Marxists. The reformist tendency came to be what we know now as social democrats although social democrats existed as early as the 1860s when it was more radical.

Either way these splits are not new and will always happen.
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 No.413338

>>408509
cause we have true disagreement over theory and organization
right wing is purely feelz, so as long as they aren't in power, they can all feel they're in the same side, although its an illusion as they'd actually jump at each other throat, given all their shit is based on having the power and using it for yourself (with some obscene enjoyment thrown in).
leftist, actually have a coherent worldview and theory, and as such dont need to be in power to see their fundamentals oppositions
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 No.413346

>>410832
>But only for those religious shitskins which follow their religion.
Actually very accurate. The former leader of our christian democrats argued that only christians should be let through
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 No.413403

Because they are all different things thrown under a single label of leftism. I am an anarchist and I tried getting along with commies but they are just uppity assholes towards us, and their conception of freedom is too narrow and doesn't capture what we anarchists dream of.
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 No.413428

>>413403
> I am an anarchist and I tried getting along with commies but they are just uppity assholes towards us,
Uppity? I wouldn’t use that word here. If you think some are sanctimonious pseuds, then sure.
>and their conception of freedom is too narrow and doesn't capture what we anarchists dream of.
Worry about survival first, like the rest of us, instead of abstractions like “freedom” or whatever. Authoritarianism is a meme, and your ideas about eliminating hierarchies and oppression imposed by political and cultural structures might not be relevant until after the DotP becomes the dominating economic system around the world. I won’t tell you to read Marx, but maybe a little Bookchin will do you good.
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 No.413435

>>413403
>their conception of freedom is too narrow and doesn't capture what we anarchists dream of
What do you think the end goal of communism is?
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 No.413460

>>413435

not that guy and also not a communist but…

The abolition of hierarchy, the state and capitalism.
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 No.413470

>>408712

Nazi countries don't exist because they would be condemned by the globohomo. Virtually every major power condemns anti-semetic beliefs.

What we have today is neo-fascism, which incorporates a lot of nazi rhetoric and just changes it to fit the context of the problems of another society. They can't go fully mask off but they can do things like determine whether a certain minority group has the ability to be a citizen. India did that. The CAA essentially said muslim refugees can't be considered citizens and they have the right to dictate who is a "refugee". They used it to essentially make half of west bengal (the area that borders bangladesh) and assam's population to be illegals even if they are natives of the land. Bolsanaro is a neo-fascist and blames all the problems on the dwindling communist groups in Brazil. He actively goes against liberal beliefs to weaken them permanently and make them insignificant opposition. He has purposefully allowed coronavirus to spread to decimate the liberal population.

They believe the same things as Nazis but just use tactics to not get international attention for genocide or persecution.
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 No.413524

>>413460
my point is communists want largely the same end result as anarchists do

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