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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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 No.407607[Last 50 Posts]

How do you refute the claim made by oh-so-virtuous reactionaries that Marxism is a "philosophy of envy" in the sense that communists (or workers in general) only seek to control the means of production and seize the wealth of the rich because they are envious of the rich?

Did Marx and Engels ever express envy of the rich for having too much in their writings? And if they did, was it not just a means of mobilizing workers to revolt?

Please refute the dumb b1tch in the video for me please.
>>

 No.407610

That face prevents me from watching this video, sorry.
>>

 No.407613

But, a philosophy of envy can only arise from a productive relation that sets the grounds for envy in the first place. That's just my 2 cents.
>>

 No.407617

>>407613
Good call.
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 No.407626

>>407617
Like I'm sure the Catholic church at one point called republican revolutionaries in France 'envious'.

It's almost as if it's a pseudo-intellectual way of cope on part of the ruling class. It amounts to nothing more than 'u mad bro?', in the face of their inevitable doom.
>>

 No.407630

>>407626
Correct. If you know your ship is going to inevitably sink the only way you can deal with it is proclaim yourself to have been in the moral right. "Yeah I died but at least I died pure."
>>

 No.407657

>>407607
>How do you refute
You don't. If somebody makes up nonsense, don't bother trying to refute it. Just call them a wrong idiot and demand they prove their bullshit. Being put on the defensive makes you look bad to the observers so don't let them do it. If anything flip the script. After you say they're a bullshitter and you demand they prove it, return fire by accusing capitalism of being a philosophy of parasitism and cancerous greed, and then substantiate it. If you combine the two tactics you will contrast yourself with their inability to properly make their argument with your ability to take capitalism apart (which you should have if you know even some entry level theory).
>>

 No.407660

I always assumed its middle class projection since theyre the ones who hate the "decadent" elite but want to be among the bourgeoise elite themselves.
A primary concern for a slave, a serf, or a prole wants to be free from bondage. Not peacock for status, lile that twat from yesterday who made a thread asking how can communism guarantee he will still eat cavier post revolution.
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 No.407663

Maybe in some ways you can call it “envy”, “envy” for the wealth squandered which, though produced socially by Man, is hoarded by the capitalists. I don’t see a problem with this. We communists see what is possible, what our productive forces are capable of. As far as Marx and Engels go, their principal motivation was their dialectical-materialist understanding of the development of history rooted in the mutual antagonisms and contradictions arising between the various developing forces of production and the existing relations of production.
>>

 No.407665

>>407660
Also you can tell its middle class rabbling becaise they always divert class struggle down to moralism.
>>

 No.407694

>>407607
>only seek to control the means of production and seize the wealth of the rich because they are envious of the rich
That's literally all there is to your ideology
>>

 No.407696

>>407607
There is nothing to be disproved here, as it is a subjective emotional opinion based on nothing factual.
But leftists make these "arguments" against rightwinger just as much.

Its part of propagandistic effort. Political tribalism.
>>

 No.407703

>>407607
Who cares. If that is why the masses mobilize against the bourgeoisie, I see no problem
>>

 No.407716

>>407665
100% this.
>>

 No.407814

Medieval Christian moralism has zero place on the left.
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 No.407834

>>

 No.407844

>envy
<YES, I WANT TO GUILLOTINE JEFF BEZOS AND TAKE HIS SHIT. HOW COULD YOU TELL?
Wanting personal benefits is based.
>>

 No.407845

File: 1627511440750.jpg ( 331.44 KB , 1332x1600 , st dom full met.jpg )

>>407814
>im sorry for being pmc
>>

 No.407853

>>407607
Considering "envy" is coveting something belonging to someone else, that's just projection. Workers are incapable of being envious of the rich, their wealth was created by the workers.
>>

 No.407861

>>407853
Exactly.
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 No.407877

>>407610
I can tell she's Irish.

t. grew up in Boston
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 No.407884

File: 1627512837297.jpg ( 99.36 KB , 760x760 , 12312331123123.jpg )

>>407607
I have always wondered this meme they use and it has to projection of their own feelings towards others.
>>

 No.407906

>>407607
I mean, it's true. There's nothing wrong with being envious of rich people living life to the fullest. Only Christcucks and other religoids think envy is bad.
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 No.407909

>>407607
Semantics faggotry. Rich people, despite not working for their capitalist, still own it. And the workers don't. The workers should be envious of those bastards.
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 No.407930

>>

 No.407959

File: 1627515086370.gif ( 784.5 KB , 420x179 , common decency.gif )

If you're poor, they call you lazy and jealous
If you're well off, they call you hypocritical and out of touch

When will you realize those are moral arguments meant to prevent class conciousness, not something to seriously think about.
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 No.408170

>>407607
Christians were a mistake.
>>

 No.408195

>>408189
>He thinks reactionaries don’t do all of the above nor want to
Socialism or barbarism, pal. Pick a side or it will be picked for you.
>>

 No.408201

File: 1627523708847.jpg ( 44.09 KB , 1280x720 , Why the f you lying? .jpg )

>>408192
>>

 No.408216

>>408214
Missed that anons point, and by stating this you're conceding this also isn't the case for socialists.
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 No.408219

>>408214
They’re indifferent to or even approve of it when it serves their purposes, and if they ever have a choice between (other people’s) death or change, they’ll choose the former. Even if it kills them in the end.

TL;DR when push comes to shove, yes
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 No.408241

>>408234
Then dialectical materialism and scientific socialism would be thought up by someone else, with maybe some minor differences.

Tell me you don’t subscribe to the great man theory of history.
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 No.408247

>>408242
>Says the chinlet flying a nazi flag
While I do love the quote in picrel, revolutions always have their excesses and politics has always been a struggle. But I don’t care about the violence that occurs in revolutions; historic or contemporary, considering that the powers that be don’t care when they use violence to suppress it.
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 No.408252

>>408245
> There were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror—that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.
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 No.408264

>>408192
>this shit again
>>

 No.408270

>>408266
>Thinking that liking diamat and hismat is the same as worshipping marx and engels
>Actually believing in Great Man Theory
They aren’t sending us their best, folks.
>>

 No.408273

>>407610
>That face prevents me from watching this video, sorry.
>>

 No.408281

File: 1627525864559.png ( 367.12 KB , 535x341 , Romain-Fellens-2014-Künstl….png )

>>408266
If Charles Darwin hadn't developed the theory of evolution, would that mean evolution never existed?
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 No.408291

File: 1627526180961.jpg ( 108.42 KB , 1097x576 , 1625788119100-1.jpg )

>>408287
(You)
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 No.408294

>>408287
>The NatSoc rise to power didn't require a murder spree if millions of people
This is Trump tier delusion.
>>

 No.408298

>>408281
Why is Marx doing a freemasonic hand gesture?
>>

 No.408304

>>407607
any person who feels another is underservable enriched feels it is wrong

the battle of the classes is WHO is undeservable given money,taxes,gifts,rights,ect. And what should then be done with it, who is more deserving?
>>

 No.408310

>>407607
Engels was rich and supported marx's neetdom
>>

 No.408314

>>408296
Politics is a struggle between two opposing forces and violence has always been on the table for either. You fucking liberal moron.

>>408302

Thalmann was put in solitary for 11 years and then executed at Buchenwald. Have the balls to own up to who you are.
>>

 No.408319

>>408315
Lemme guess, (((They))) were interfering with the pure aryan utopia with their capitalism that the aryans already deep throated like a war widow sucking off a Buffalo Soldier in occupied Berlin?
>>

 No.408331

>>408326
>The Holocaust was actually allied bombings
Don't make me call /his/ to beat your Nazi ass again.
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 No.408335

>>408326
You can’t own up to the violence of the regime you support, even as a way to achieve your goals, and have to pretend it was some outside agitator who forced you to act to protect yourself. You’re an edgy liberal who somehow loves clutching pearls.

Unless this is all performance art.
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 No.408342

>>408340
I do get to sleep on jewish titties at night, so potato-potato.
>>

 No.408348

File: 1627528247567.jpg ( 112.69 KB , 1285x1080 , 1626561241204.jpg )

>>407607
>How do you refute the claim made by oh-so-virtuous reactionaries that Marxism is a "philosophy of envy" in the sense that communists (or workers in general) only seek to control the means of production and seize the wealth of the rich because they are envious of the rich?

Supposing that this was true in some cases, with your average prole hating the rich on the basis of them leading a better life than they did, how does this explain that a good chunk of socialist theorists came from well-educated/ well-to-do backgrounds? Freidrich Engels, Peter Kropotkin, Lenin, Mao Zedong, these people were all born into well to do families, and all of them hated their own class and the economic system that sustained them despite coming from privileged backgrounds.

>Did Marx and Engels ever express envy of the rich for having too much in their writings? And if they did, was it not just a means of mobilizing workers to revolt?


Not that I'm aware. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm Marx engaged in stock exchange as a means to fuck over the rich (i recall seeing extracts of this mindset during the r/wallstreetbets fiasco)

What's there to refute? What's the point? People make the same stupid arguments daily and probably get an equal amount of likes and upvoots.

If I were to make this point, I'd be met with the same "uhm you're from an upper middle class white background, you have no right to criticise anything" bullshit we've been seeing for nearly a decade now. These people act as if class traitors don't exist.
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 No.408350

>>408344
I know where I could find your ass in case have a cum emergency.

But one raid? That’s it? Tell me you glow in the dark, because this is otherwise really pathetic.
>>

 No.408356

>>408352
>Aftermath of destructive imperial war caused by capitalist powers
>Socialism or Barbarism
<Chooses Barbarism

>Did you win BLM

Chauvin’s in Jail, ain’t he? And there was plenty of kino during the protests, so while their Marxist status is dubious, I can’t really complain:
>>

 No.408358

>>408355
And you’ll still be single.
>>

 No.408359

>>408355
Jokes on you, I'm 40 and only pay lip service to zionists to get their donations.
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 No.408380

>>408355
half the people on this fucking website are already over 30, channers are old now bro
>>

 No.408382

File: 1627529461473.mp4 ( 1.99 MB , 640x360 , wendy_williams.mp4 )

>>408352
>K, let me know how your trans rights & BLM protests turned out. Did you win?
>>

 No.408384

>>408382
Fentanyl Floyd is dead forever
>>

 No.408388

>>408374
Are you ESL? I said that Thalmann wasn’t killed in a bombing, nor that the deaths that went on in Nazi Konzlagers were exclusively the result of allied bombs but actual murder.
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 No.408395

File: 1627529753089.png ( 1.2 MB , 982x617 , srskl.PNG )

>>

 No.408399

Maupin answered this question on his stream just now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk7z9oxTOwM
>>

 No.408400

File: 1627529863321.jpg ( 789.5 KB , 1242x1251 , Y U Mad? .jpg )

>>408394
>30,000 gulags
[citation needed]
>>

 No.408401

File: 1627529935971.jpg ( 250.73 KB , 1000x667 , b5256d9dade4745b78115caff5….jpg )

>>408384
>Floyd is dead forever
He's physically dead, but became a martyr, and that's forever. It's in the history books now.

>>408394

>You kinoed it up you based bro you.
I didn't do anything. It just happened.
>>

 No.408402

>>408397
seethe harder
>>

 No.408432

>>408394
>filled with reactionaries and whitist filth
fixed that for you friend
>>

 No.408462

>>408457
Don’t throw rocks in a glass house primate
>>

 No.408463

>>408460
So were 30 million other Americans.
>>

 No.408487

>>408474
>Solzhenitsyn
Whose own wife called his stories folklore, and who apart from criticizing Stalin was writing about replacing the Soviets with a new regime. Get a new hero.
>>

 No.408488

>>408485
>All prisons and detention camps in the Soviet Union were GULags
>>

 No.408503

>>408474
He was convicted of treason during war time and should have been shot. Luckily for him the humane Soviet authorities sent him to prison to be reformed instead, and even treated his illnesses.
>>408476
Stay mad
>>

 No.408513

how is this nazi dude even all that different from some random ass liberal with some edge to it?
>>

 No.408532

>>408526
Nobody knows who that fag is outside of you dudes, Stalin is seen as a hero in Russia even to this day.
>>

 No.408534

>>408474
>Solzhenitsyn
https://www.nytimes.com/1974/02/06/archives/solzhenitsyns-exwife-says-gulag-is-folklore.html
literaly fiction, dillate victim of commusism
>>

 No.408538

>>408531
struck a nerve lib? Your politics are fundamentally liberal regardless of how many overpriced nazi uniforms you buy, regardless of your spirit science tier mystical woohaa you buy into, regardless of how many old people you get to buy into your faggy bullshit.
>>

 No.408539

>>408536
Yes, only humane authorities would waste scarce resources treating a Vlasovite dog (while in the gulag!)
>>

 No.408545

>>408542
She knows the guy, you imbecile. And Solzhenitsyn wasn’t a scholar either
>>

 No.408549

File: 1627533708703.mp4 ( 1.62 MB , 1280x720 , (you) in 1945.mp4 )

>>408546
Your rubber bullets bounce of the armor of Great Stalin.
>>

 No.408553

>>408551
okay, explain how the left is either one of these things.
>>

 No.408558

>>408546
He worked in a sharashka, you moron
>>

 No.408569

File: 1627534191537.jpg ( 136.45 KB , 1200x675 , ed04e5ab59ef9594f8dfd4ccc4….jpg )

>>408546
Based, right-winger genocide when?
>>

 No.408570

>>408559
>Libs are all soycialist sympathizers
<That’s why they criticize AES for being “authoritarian”.
>>

 No.408580

>>408575
Weren’t you just now talking about what a great crime against humanity it was to jail dissidents?
>>

 No.408591

>>408580
>Crime against humanity
<to arrest enemies that conspire against the state

Would like to say something to 408575:
Fuck you, naziflag.
>>

 No.408606

File: 1627535342791.jpg ( 5.19 MB , 2317x2896 , 883c3630e16db7b7123b5b7ed9….jpg )

>>408575
Putin has to suck stalin and the ussr off everytime to get support, even after 30 years of subhumans like you getting the speaker by liberals to talk how stalin put 999 trilion on his gulags people still with him.
>>

 No.408664

>>408658
>Nazi Germany was forced to invade and destroy virtually all of Europe
Someone post the eternal kraut video
>>

 No.408665

Nothing could possibly be more envious than the philosophy of the man who has everything demanding that he needs more.

Nothing.
>>

 No.408666

File: 1627538047881-0.png ( 484.11 KB , 960x907 , USSR.png )

File: 1627538047881-1.png ( 281.97 KB , 675x631 , Stalin.PNG )

>>408662
Cope and seethe Nazi after based dictater Putin dies, Russia will once again turn communist.
>>

 No.408672

>>408669
Yes, the Nazis were certainly the foot soldiers of reaction.
>>

 No.408674

>>408669
There were more socialist states after nazism than before lol.
>>

 No.408679

>>408658
>The war crimes attributed to Nazi Germany were forced upon her by others.
Maybe you could say that the unreasonable conditions of the surrender for Germany in WW1 justified attacking the French and the British empire, but even that is a stretch.
But who the fuck made the Nazis invade the Soviet Union and kill 20 million civilians ? Maybe it was the big capitalists that Hitler was beholden to, that demanded this attack. I think Hitler and the Nazi-gang betrayed Germany by making it attack the Soviet union. They could never have won against such a giant, what were they thinking ? Or maybe they were just stupid pawns of larger capitalist forces that wanted to sacrifice Germany to weaken the first socialist superpower.
>>

 No.408685

>>408681
Because it’s gay
>>

 No.408690

>>408686
>World War I or the First World War, often abbreviated as WWI or WW1, was a global war originating in Europe that lasted from 28 July 1914 to 11 November 1918. Also known as the Great War or "the war to end all wars",[7] it led to the mobilisation of more than 70 million military personnel, including 60 million Europeans, making it one of the largest wars in history.[8][9] It also was one of the deadliest conflicts in history,[10] with an estimated 8.5 million combatant deaths and 13 million civilian deaths as a direct result of the war,[11] while resulting genocides and the related 1918 Spanish flu pandemic caused another 17–100 million deaths worldwide,[12][13] including an estimated 2.64 million Spanish flu deaths in Europe and as many as 675,000 in the United States.[14]
>>

 No.408691

>>408687
>nobody understands my special snowflake hoi4 larper ideology
boohoo bitch ass uygha
>>

 No.408698

>>408694
Are you offering me a handjob?
>>

 No.408701

File: 1627540550947.png ( 173.64 KB , 505x351 , 1626542379734-0.png )

>>

 No.408702

File: 1627540595400.jpg ( 210.24 KB , 1048x768 , boredom.jpg )

>mods nuking post history when they ban again
Thanks mods, it's not like I wanted to follow a conversation chain or anything.
>>

 No.408704

>>408701
(USER NEVER EXISTED)
>>

 No.408705

Will you take the boosters, or fight back against the scam?

the choice must be made.
>>

 No.408726

Turn the argument around and state that there is no problem inherently even with ressentiment or whatnot. The slave rebellion of the Black Jacobins was a massively based and sigmachad moment in history. Also, le material conditions as usual.
>>

 No.408760

File: 1627544623583.jpg ( 97.27 KB , 976x850 , _91408619_55df76d5-2245-41….jpg )

408751
408750
408749
408747
408744
why are they like this
>>

 No.408923

File: 1627556350073-0.jpg ( 252.35 KB , 718x945 , IMG_20210102_141839.jpg )

File: 1627556350073-1.jpg ( 218.04 KB , 719x770 , IMG_20210107_140429.jpg )

>>407607
This suffice enough?
>>

 No.408938

>>408298
It's not a freemasonic hand gesture, it was just fashionable at the time.
>>

 No.408973

>>407607
I dont want to be the rich or live like them. I want them dead so those parasites stop controlling how we work, where we live and how we live. I want to live in a workers democracy, not in 20 room mansion.
>>

 No.408991

i am envious of some things! for example, i'm envious that bourgeois can choose to live on any neighborhood they like no matter how stupid the prices are, something that all workers will be able to do once we abolish rent.
I'm envious that the bourgeosie have access to expensive advanced medicine, something that all workers can access once we abolish private medicine.
I'm envious that, instead of living in a world where everyone has an equal opportunity and can sustain themselves, i live in a world where millions and millions of people suffer daily and then get told that they deserve it for being lazy.
In such a circumstance, envy seems perfectly rational.
>>

 No.409069

>>407657
This line of thinking is the reason why our ideas are so unpopular, comrade. If we can't prove them wrong, then what is even the point?
>>

 No.409071

>>409069
>our ideas are so unpopular, comrade. If we can't prove them wrong,
hmm who could be behind this post oink oink
>>

 No.409236

>>408973
Based.

Unique IPs: 43

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