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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1627481962769.png ( 929.14 KB , 2244x2048 , wikipedia.png )

 No.407084

I'm a newcomer when it comes to leftism, and I love Wikipedia at the same time. I can't bear reading articles on Marx like those on Marxists.org, nor books on Marxism. What I liked are news articles and Wikipedia, a remnant of the now-defunct independent self.

My question to you guys is, is Wikipedia a good source for leftism-related topics?

Opinions, discussions, resources, recommendations welcome.
>>

 No.407087

Absolutely not
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 No.407088

>>407087
Why can it be? Elaborate.
>>

 No.407090

No
>>

 No.407095

no wikipedia is filled with no lifers who'd rathe have bad information on there so long as they wrote it
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 No.407096

>>407084
No, Wikipedia is biased and astroturfed. This doesn't just apply to leftism either. General issues with Wikipedia involve sectarianism.
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 No.407097

>>407088
Wikipedia has an anti-socialist bend that starts at the top of their chain of command. That means anti-socialist edits will be tolerated, while pro-socialist will more likely be not. Read first hand literature or secondary literature by decent academics or fuck off
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 No.407099

>>407096
Oh! I see.
>>

 No.407117

wikipedia thinks Radio Free Asia is a trustworthy source, which tells you all you need to know
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 No.407128

File: 1627484252949.mp4 ( 61.31 MB , 1920x1060 , deprecated sources.mp4 )

>>407117
Yeah.
AAMOF see this short video I post.
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 No.407142

>>407117
>>407128
They also treat Consortium News, the oldest source of independent journalism on the internet founded by the guy who broke the Iran-Contra scandal, as an unreliable source.
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 No.407144

>>407142
>Consortium News
>oldest source of independent journalism
Never knew that! Does that source skew left or is a left wing one or unbiased?
<unreliable
burgerpedia
>>

 No.407160

bump
>>

 No.407161

>>407084
It is pretty obvious that the articles are written mostly by burger undergraduates, so the primary sources are distorted multiple times at different layers. What you get at the end can be completely ridiculous, but you'll only be able to discern that if you read the primary source in the first place.

Fix your attention span and open a book.
>>

 No.407167

>>407084
No, because the historians quoted on Wikipedia aren't all Marxists, and that is reactionary to Marxist view of history.
>>

 No.407186

bumped for new visitors
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 No.407198

File: 1627487300786.png ( 1009.38 KB , 1280x1387 , ClipboardImage.png )

>>407128
The RfC's where the deprecation of these sources was decided upon are linked on that page. You can click them and see why they were deprecated. These outlets have a reputation for spreading misinformation.

That said, the treatment of U.S. government outlets, as per >>407117 (an outlet whose actual Wikipedia page states at the lead section that it is historically a C.I.A. project) does constitute a double-standard for a decent amount of editors. "XYZ is owned by the Chinese government" is for many a valid reason to deprecate or mark unreliable, but "XYZ is owned by the American government" is not. As someone knowledgable with the background of these Wiki decisions, this is a valid criticism of the community.

But don't pretend like RT, Sputnik, CGTN or the Grayzone have no issues in their relationship to the truth, if you're not going to bother reading the RfC's where a decision to deprecate was made.

Grayzone has a history of stretching the truth demonstrably to try and force a point, for example, and reads as an opinion blog at best. FAIR.org is what a Grayzone with better integrity would look like.

RT has all the journalistic integrity of the Daily Mail (and indeed, a similar style of reporting), a right-wing source which was I think the first Wikipedia ever deprecated.

I could go on. But really just read the RfC's if you're curious. Like I said, the community deserves a lot more critique than it is currently getting on this front, but it has to be from an honest standpoint.
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 No.407208

File: 1627487642923.png ( 482.93 KB , 540x355 , ClipboardImage.png )

>>407198
Oh wow… actually, looking at the RFA page again, it looks like ALL mention of the CIA by name has been sanitized from the entire page and it's been extended-confirmed locked. Amazing… yeah, I'm not gonna tell you Wikipedia is epic and everything anons, shit like this really pisses me off. But there's a method to the madness, and it's a somewhat workable situation if you're a nimble navigator and autistic enough to put some time into like I have.
>>

 No.407222

Communism, Wikipedia, 2001
>In common usage, communism refers to totalitarian socialism (as distinct from democratic socialism). Regimes described as communistic have, according to most Western observers, generally been despotic and extremely abusive of human rights. Examples are the Soviet Union, the People's Republic of China and Cuba.
>Lenin's rule gave way to Joseph Stalin's and Stalin's style of communist dictatorship is known as Stalinism; Stalin's government was violently repressive of individual liberties and of political dissidents and featured more [[five-year plans]] as well as massive industrialization, under the un-Marxist pretext of constructing "socialism in one country". The practices of Mao Tse Tung are known as Maoism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Communism&oldid=334056748

Radio Free Asia, Wikipedia, 2007
>Radio Free Asia (RFA) is a private, nonprofit corporation that broadcasts news and information in nine native Asian languages to listeners who do not have access to full and free news media. The purpose of RFA is to provide a forum for a variety of opinions and voices from within these Asian countries.
>Radio Free Asia was originally founded and funded in 1950 by the CIA through a front organization called "Committee for Free Asia" as an anti-communist propaganda operation, broadcasting from Manila, the Philippines, and Dacca and Karachi, Pakistan (there may be other sites) until 1961. Some offices were in Tokyo. The parent organization was given as the Asia Foundation. In 1971 CIA involvement ended and all responsibilities were transferred to a presidentially appointed Board for International Broadcasting (BIB).
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Radio_Free_Asia&oldid=105542462

TL;DR: communism is totalitarian, despotic and anti-human rights, socialism is one country is unmarxist, anti-communist free news media is good.

>>407084
>I'm a newcomer when it comes to leftism, and I love Wikipedia at the same time
Fuck you
>>

 No.407224

>>407222
>F*** you
I could say the same thing to you
>>

 No.407229

>>407222
I'm amused someone here figured out how to pull diffs enough to go back to 2001 and 2007, but why did you do this? Pre-2010 or so most Wikipedia pages were basically "some guy decided to write whatever he wants here", it's much more methodological now. Like go look at the old 4chan diffs or talk page. It's literally some random 4chan mods and oldfags shitposting on the talk page for 4chan in like 2006. I think moot and Snacks were even posting on there.
>>

 No.407230

>>407229
>some guy decided to write whatever he wants here
And modern wikipedia isn't this?
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 No.407233

>>407230
Yeah. The jannies are much stricter today than back then imo.
>>

 No.407235

>>407230
There are a lot more bots running around helping veterans detect dishonest editing. You can't, generally, just insert whatever you like into whatever page. It at least has to *look* legit on the surface if you want to insert some bullshit. This arised out of necessity; The site would get a lot of trolls, vandals and spammers trying to promote their products on the website.
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 No.407239

>>407233
You need to cite sources every single time you make an article or subsection and it may be rejected.
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 No.407243

File: 1627489161560.png ( 174.84 KB , 1325x695 , ClipboardImage.png )

>>407229
Here are links to what I'm talking about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:4chan/Archive_1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:4chan/Archive_2
At least in archive 2 you can see Moot making a bunch of signed comments. And from the old archives you can deduce the page was originally just a list of 4chan memes that some random people tacked on the page, which isn't at all what the page looks like today.
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 No.407253

rebumped
>>

 No.407257

>>407160
>>407186
>>407253
Are you retarded?
>>

 No.407258

No, wikipedia is garbage. It is overrun with glowies and the owner is close to Crooked Hillary

We have leftypedia which is much better
>>

 No.407260

>>407257
I would like to hear from those who haven’t seen my post yet.
>retarded
🤦‍♂️
>>

 No.407261

>>

 No.407263

>>407258
>We have leftypedia which is much better
Get them to add the Visual Editing plugin and I'll consneeder becoming a contributor.
>>

 No.407264

>>407260
Did you stroll by from reddit or why are you so retarded?
>>

 No.407266

>>407263
( Meaning, this https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:VisualEditor )
Wikipedia has it. Leftypedia does not.
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 No.407269

>>407264
>i’m a redditor.
You’ve got it so wrong big time. I’m from a country where Reddit is inaccesible.

>retarded or other remarks

I read too much of wikipedia and mainstream media. No wonder in your eyes I’m “retarded” (I just don’t know anything about leftism yet, and is digging into it)
>>

 No.407277

>>407269
Calm down. We have a reading sticky if you want to get into "leftism"
>I’m from a country where Reddit is inaccesible'
Damn, you are lucky
>>

 No.407278

Bumping this gem
>>

 No.407280

>>407258
Thanks for the recommendation!
>>

 No.407282

>>407277
Aaaahhh!!!! Thank you very much!!! I really appreciate it 😍😍😍😍😍 😉😉😉
All thanks to based Kemkominfo!
>>

 No.407285

>>407273
I'm the Wikipedia editor who has been posting in this thread.
Wikipedia is one of many sites you can look at for information on any subject. Don't rely on it in any way. Use it to find *some* sources (you can look at the citations for any particular statement, and from there deduce books or other things to look into for example).
Some pages may be able to give you a quality overview of a topic. Some other pages might be terrible. The project's quality is pretty variant.

Don't instantly believe shit just because it's on there, but you can use it as a way to find more things to read. I would emphasize skepticism and coming to your own conclusions about anything, Wikipedia is not the only source to be skeptical of. Having worked a bit with Wikipedia's sub-community dedicated to determining the quality of different sources, I've come to find out that a lot of sources have glaring issues when subjected to criticism. This goes for major news media, state-owned media of any stripe, magazines, TV and documentaries… anything. The highest quality sources I have found have tended to be non-English language alternate newspapers in developed or semi developed countries, oddly enough. Even when I've read history books on a subject, I've found that they often contradict each other in small ways, which is seriously irritating when I'm trying to write a Wikipedia page, because I sometimes can't parse who to trust.

It's a confusing world out there.
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 No.407291

>>407233
>>407235
No, you are missing the point, modern wikipedia is EXACTLY that, a team of anticommunists deciding to write whatever they wantsthere.
>>

 No.407297

>>407291
He who hasn't investigated has no right to speak, no?
Have you interacted with the back-end of Wikipedia in any way? There are certainly motivated actors on the website, but it comes off as misinformed to say it's some [[WP:CABAL]] plotting against any particular ideology.
There are deadass Marxist-Leninist editors running around, and their sole folly that gets them into trouble is their flagrant inability to follow community customs and make good arguments on talk pages, preferring to see if they can jam whatever they like into pages (because they're under the impression this is what liberals are doing there).
>>

 No.407306

File: 1627491368625.pdf ( 384.27 KB , 232x300 , Engels - Ludwig Feurbach a….pdf )

>going to wikipedia for communist theories
uygha WHAT?
>I can't bear reading articles on Marx like those on Marxists.org, nor books on Marxism.
Why though? If you keep at it you will probably get used to it. Start with some easy beginner text like this one explaining the background of Marxism.
>>

 No.407310

>>407297
Please shut the fuck up. Read this and come back schizo
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikipedia
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Philip_Cross
Common examples of bullshit includes almost every single article that mentions Stalin and the article (or many other communist leaders), calling them "dictators"; Articles that mentions the supposedly "crimes of communism", like damages from natural disasters being credited to communism (the typical "Stalin paid the clouds not to rain").
>>

 No.407325

>>407306
I’m used to it. Would be much better if Marxists could have the same or similar interface to that of Wikipedia’s.
>>

 No.407349

>>407282
>based Kemkominfo
What?
>>

 No.407385

>>407325
There's leftypedia, but it needs work.
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
>>

 No.407445

>>407310
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/The_Holocaust
Looks like a reliable source. Fuck off stupid cunt.
>>

 No.407452

File: 1627497470297.jpg ( 227.03 KB , 561x417 , glow.jpg )

>>407445
>wikispooks is wrong about wikipedia
>>

 No.407475

>>407452
You don't understand Wikipedia. You are literally like the /pol/acks who never visited /leftypol/, yet think they know what /leftypol/ is because they heard it from some retard selling half and quarter-truths, then berate anyone contradicting you.
>>

 No.407480

>>407475
You don't understand Wikispooks. You are literally like the /pol/acks who never visited /leftypol/, yet think they know what /leftypol/ is because they heard it from some retard selling half and quarter-truths, then berate anyone contradicting you.
>>

 No.407484

>>407445
>>407475
I don't actually give a shit about what else is on Wikispooks, but I have been carefully observing all sorts of Wikipedia drama for a quite a long time and I can personally vouch for Wikispooks' article on Wikipedia. It's one of the most comprehensive analyses of Wikipedia out there (unlike a lot of journalists with axes to grind over Wikipedia but usually get some major detail wrong or misunderstand its bureaucracy) and it correctly diagnoses the source of nearly every problem Wikipedia has.
>>

 No.407486

>>407144
I would say Consortium News tries to be unbiased when reporting but often hosts analyses from clearly left/progressive people like Caitlin Johnstone.
>>

 No.407592

File: 1627503423381.gif ( 1.23 MB , 254x254 , soytard.gif )

>>407475
>You don't understand Wikipedia. You are literally like the /pol/acks who never visited /leftypol/, yet think they know what /leftypol/ is because they heard it from some retard selling half and quarter-truths, then berate anyone contradicting you.
>>

 No.407737

read a fucking book, zoomer
>>

 No.407744

File: 1627507611148.png ( 642.09 KB , 1199x1125 , 1625866040567.png )

>Wikipedia
>>

 No.408040

>>407349
Indonesia's Communications Minister
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 No.408044

>>407385
Oh. Thanks! I'll just read it instead.
>>

 No.408047

>>407486
Oh! Are those analyses made by true leftists are just neolib larpers who mistook their ideology with leftism?
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 No.409043

>>407198
>RT, Sputnik, CGTN or the Grayzone have no issues in their relationship to the truth
hum, not anymore than MSM US outlets thats for sure, especially grayzone. streching the truth ? Have you never read a standard MSM geopolitcal article ? what hypocrisy.


>>407208
>But there's a method to the madness
nobody denies that, just that this method is heavily lib, pro US, and pro statu quo, and as such is a garbage source of information for anything politically controversial. Literally the only sources allowed are part of the US war machines, including when they've been debunked, I dunno how can anyone defend that shit methodology

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