No.404747
I've been thinking about how critiques of fascism and imperialism are re-appropriated by the right, often unconsciously. Example, colonel Jessup in a few good men, he's obviously the bad guy but go to the comments section of a video on the scene of "you can't handle the truth" and you will see a bunch of people defending him. It's like in jarhead when they are watching the helicopter scene from apocalypse now, originally conceived as an anti war film, they are comparing the americans in vietnam to the nazis which is why they play wagner, but now its being celebrated uncritically as "america, fuck yeah" by a bunch of marines. Another example is starship troopers memes used by /pol/, clearly the movie is lampooning fascism and us imperialism.
What I think explains this is that fascism, as Walter Benjamin says, is the 'the aestheticization of politics'. The difference is revolutionary progressive politics makes art political while reaction makes politics "artistic".
>Fascism attempts to organize the newly proletarianized masses without affecting the property structure which the masses strive to eliminate. Fascism sees its salvation in giving these masses not their right, but instead a chance to express themselves. The masses have a right to change property relations; Fascism seeks to give them an expression while preserving property. The logical result of Fascism is the introduction of aesthetics into political life. (…) Mankind, which in Homer’s time was a spectacle for the Olympian gods, has become one for itself. (…) Communism responds by politicizing art.
Because of this heavy emphasis on aesthetics anything which uses the aesthetics of fascism, even from a critical point of view, functionally sort of becomes fascist, because fascism is largely aesthetics to begin with. It's like pornography, yes its just a depiction of sex but that doesn't mean the actors aren't actually having sex. This is why parodies of fascism can't work because the parody often indistinguishable from the real thing. The only critiques of reactionary politics I've seen that don't fall into this are both dramatic (not parodies or comedies) and incredibly hamfisted in that they spell out FASH BAD in bold, flashing capital letters, ex: "V for Vendetta" the movie not comic book.
Why can't rightoids distinguish parody? Is it purposeful (ex: Baneposting) or unconscious? And is this inevitable given reactionary ideologies tendency towards substanceless aesthetics, mysticism, and irrationality?
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No.404768
>>404747>originally conceived as an anti war film, they are comparing the americans in vietnam to the nazis which is why they play wagner, but now its being celebrated uncritically as "america, fuck yeah" by a bunch of marines. This is were you are wrong. Read baudrillard on apocalypse now and you'll have an answer to the resr of your post too
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No.404769
All I am seeing on this website is a lot of poor person jealousy. Like half the threads are so cringe! You’d flip your lid if someone of a class was running you and your poor existence down but it’s ok for you to run them down. You obviously were not raised any better. Just get over it, who cares as to whom is rich or poor.
I was raised in a very deprived area of Leeds, toasting bread on a gas bar fire for days at a time as we had no electric…
I now have 3 cars, a farm yard (no farming though), a few horses for the wife. The children go to a fantastic public middle school but will be going to a private high school and college to have a more focused education. Plus my daughter can take her horse to school… And all I had to do to achieve this is work 75+hrs a week. Yes I’ve literally burnt my arse off, but I can now chill a bit enjoy life and time with my family…
So hard work and determination got me here, but from the perspective of most, if we were to meet today would be “toff”, “over privileged”, rathe than, “shit, the blokes worked hard for him and his family”… the lower classes have always been the most judgmental.
Try not being jealous and work harder… and I know this isn’t and can’t be the case for some but for the other 90% of you it’s no excuse.
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No.404776
>>404769>Plus my daughter can take her horse to school…This is a great bit lmao
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No.404780
>>404769Fam, you are a cuck. That's problem. Privilege is a liberal buzzword. Having nice objects is like being castrated. There is no privilege in the way you leave, not everybody wants to be a cuckole
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No.404925
>>404747>This is why parodies of fascism can't work because the parody often indistinguishable from the real thing. The only critiques of reactionary politics I've seen that don't fall into this are both dramatic (not parodies or comedies) and incredibly hamfisted in that they spell out FASH BAD in bold, flashing capital letters, ex: "V for Vendetta"I can't really answer your main question about why rightists are the way they are, but I think critiques that unironically embrace fascism in an extreme way is the only thing I've seen that isn't co-opted, like Hatari or Laibach. Starship Troopers kinda does that by unironically embracing the ridiculousness of it, but the movie still kinda "winks" at the viewer. But maybe it doesn't go far enough.
More like this.
I don't think fascists will look at this and go "oh that looks great, let's do that." But that's what fascism is. It's just disgusting. It's slavery. It's a nightmare. All things will be debauched as we careen into the apocalypse. Or like "Salò, or the 120 Days of Sodom." They enslave these people and rip their tongues out, and there's sexual violence and it's just completely depraved so it can't possibly be confused as anything but what it is. It just so happens that anyone who watches the film nowadays is going to have some awareness of the context.
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No.404943
The limitations of Starship Troopers aside, I think bringing out the latent fascist characteristics of liberal regimes is another way to do a critique. So /pol/ likes Starship Troopers but it's also a multiracial form of fascism, right?
The government swaps out the bellicose white sky marshal after he fucks it up for a black woman who wants to "understand the bug to defeat the bug." It's still the same empire. But these guys want to live in a Starship Troopers empire? They do live in one though, right? This is what it looks like. They delude themselves into wanting to go back to a system that exists right now. The empire just needs to fashion itself as somewhat progressive as a way of stabilizing itself. Or the society that the characters grow up in before going off to war is more or less identical to an upper-middle-class Californian suburb in the 90s. It's like Melrose Place or Beverly Hills 90210 (even same actors from some of those shows) in the movie but then they become brainwashed and brutalized by this regime, so America is already 90% of the way there.
Or you can see how right-wing militia stuff in America for example. It postures as revolutionary, but it's like a glamorized array of Shopkeepers Defense Associations or something + off-duty cops on the weekend. They're even encouraged by business to do this, if all the gun and survivalist magazines in the racks of my local supermarket tell me anything. Or they see themselves augmenting the state's repressive forces in a chaotic situation, or their problem with the state is that it's not repressing people hard enough. So there are probably ways to critique that.
One thing I like about Laibach is they'll take Western pop songs and flip them around or play with the meanings. They have an album of Beatles songs but rendered in totalitarian style, like the lyrics and message could be compatible in a fascist regime. Here's an anti-war song they took and rendered in futurist style to make it almost seem unironically pro-war, maybe? They go: war! What is it good for? Then list names of corporations. The same multinational conglomerates which publish those survivalist magazines I was just talking about. You're a patriot! You're a good guy! Arm yourself and prepare to kill your neighbors!!!~
>War!
>What is it good for?
>GM (GM), IBM (IBM), Newsweek (Newsweek), CNN (CNN)
>Universal European (Universal European)
>ITV (ITV), VCR (VCR)
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No.404949
>>404769This is a good copypasta you just came with it fam?
9/10 actually kek'd
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No.404977
>>404968
Your flag explains it all. No wonder you can say that.
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No.404990
>>404985
>>404982
Get a life
You are the which one consooms and loves Hollywood movies
Hitler supperted by Rotschilds
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No.405001
>>404968
>Completely missing the substance of the post to focus on the media mentioned
He literally discussed how other people reacted to the media.
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No.405016
>>404985
>Idolizing 1980s WN drug pushers and low-lifes
Can you fags at least be consistent? Wasn't this the part you always try to state isn't "true" Natsoc or white nationalism?
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No.405019
>>405006
>This was his question, which he asked at the end of formulating an argument for why he believes it's true. It was disingenuous to begin with.
That's not disingenuous though, it's rhetorical.
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No.405040
>>404985
Nah you are the dude in far right (pun intended unapologetically)
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No.405042
>>405029
>Not understanding what a rhetorical question is
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No.405063
>>404747fascism is an undefined political buzzword invented by a shameless populist. historians liken defining fascism to trying to nail jelly to the wall. it means trade unionism (syndicalism) in italian which was popular in italy at the time. in practice it was a smorgasbord of italian pop politics. stop using the term, it's stupid and has no real definition and only makes you look like a mindless parrot for using it.
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No.405070
>>404747Criticism of fascism done by western libs is dipped in western culture to begin with, so their fascism looks cool and cute and doesn't actually show any atrocities. Communists, however, are shown as real fascists. Western intellectuals are just shitty, intellectuals are shit of the nation. And they totally understand what they are doing, they need to be actual retards to not see that.
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No.405071
>>405063Fascism was used pretty precisely by USSR, though. Say, they labelled Germany and Italy fascist, but Japan was merely imperialist. USA and UK and France were imperialist, but Spain, Hungary, etc were fascist.
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No.405176
>>405063This. The term is meaningless by design.
Fascists refers to only one thing - the particular group of people who called themselves fascists. Their policies were being adhoc changed on a whim, with no big picture behind it.
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No.405287
Is it really the policy here to just continually remove posts of rightoids/fascoids or anyone else we disagree with or who gets banned?
It's fucking retarded,weak and pathetic.Trying to read a thread with half the comments removed is painful.Are we really that weak that we have to blanket remove all posts deemed "problematic"? Fucking pitiful.No wonder this board has so few posters. Suck my balls jannies
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No.405298
>>405287No it isn't, actually you can be a Nazi or a Trump cuck and post here as long as you behave yourself and engage in productive discussion and debate, but this isn't /pol/ and we will not tolerate your strawmanl ad hominem shit and general idiocy.
Jannies seem to be on a deletion streak though, i wish they were this efficient when we deal with actual /pol/ raids.
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No.405304
>>405298Bollocks.
I've been lurking around numerous threads with vast amounts of removed posts.Reading through one half of a conversation is idiotic and frustrating.Might as well nuke the whole thread that leave up anons arguing with ghosts.Lame as fuck.
Maybe you like jannies treating us like children and protecting our sensitive eyeballs from ebil nazoid words but I don't.It's patronizing as fuck and reveals a lack of confidence in being able to defend against rightist critiques.
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No.405309
>>405304A lot of Nazis have absolutely no interest in engaging in actual discussion and debate, they just come here with their "but deh joooos faked the lolocaust" shit and obvious bait threads that have no opportunity for debate.
But for some reason the jannies are deleting "normal" posts now, I don't know why. They were careless past week and a lot of raids happened, maybe that's why they are so strict now.
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No.405319
>>405309>A lot of Nazis have absolutely no interest in engaging in actual discussion and debate, they just come here with their "but deh joooos faked the lolocaust" shit and obvious bait threads that have no opportunity for debate.I have no issue with removing inane tripe from spergs just throwing around racial epithets but they seem to be removing entire conversations where this is evidently not the case.It's REALLY annoying.
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No.405445
>>405070>Western intellectuals are just shitty, intellectuals are shit of the nation.Kys ;)
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No.405492
>>405287>>405304>>405319If you actually paid attention enough to keep up with the threads before the conversations are deleted, you would know why said posters posts were deleted. He's a repeat poster that changes flags and pretends to be someone new every other day as well floods threads with inane shit that inflates the number of posts in the thread without actually addressing any of the points made against him. Also, if anything, the mods have been extremely lenient with /pol/yp idpol, far more then they are with radlibs. 10+ /pol/fag idpol or bait threads (or threads that are turned into said things)? Completely fine. Some radlib makes a thread with even the most innocuous bait? Instantly banned. And I'm fine with radlib idpol being banned, but let's at least be fucking consistent here.
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No.405548
>>404769You Will face proletarianization
You will be hit at some point with it's pitfalls
You will be alone in this, because if your only out for yourself you can suffer by yourself.
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No.405550
>>405548And you WILL be happy
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No.405565
>>405550Wrong it'll suck when you have nothing but
>>404769 is parading around inebriated off his temporary stability. Justifying poverty and the exploitation of the prole because he's got his FUCK I got mine mentality.
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No.405588
>>405492He is also some english retard that can't type.