Have liberals ever argued FOR surplus value?

Posting mode: Reply [Return]
Name
Email
Subject	Spoiler Image
Comment
Captcha Tor Only
Flag
File
Embed
Password	(For file deletion.)

File: 1627255946908.jpg ( 14.06 KB , 326x326 , flushed.jpg )

Have liberals ever argued FOR surplus value? Anonymous 2021-07-25 (Sun) 23:32:27 No.401984

I'm a commie becasue I'm not getting my surplus value. If a liberal could explain: 1. that surplus value extraction is real and 2. explain why porkies NEED to take my surplus value, I wouldn't be a commie.

So that begs the question, has any liberal ever answered my second question? Do liberals even know what surplus value is? At some level they have to know that wages =/= my labor power.

Anonymous 2021-07-25 (Sun) 23:34:41 No.401986

We deserve your surplus value because we took a RISK in operating this business, you stupid commie.

Anonymous 2021-07-25 (Sun) 23:37:09 No.401990

>that surplus value extraction is real
We live in a postmodernist society, so it's not real, it's just your subjective opinion. In porky's opinion, porky isn't getting any surplus value from you. Checkmate, Marxism.

Anonymous 2021-07-25 (Sun) 23:38:38 No.401994

>>401990
Based

Anonymous 2021-07-25 (Sun) 23:49:09 No.402016

Modern "economics" is basically built on doing a bunch of mental gymnastics in order to claim that surplus value doesn't exist.
See: Marginalism

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 00:41:46 No.402084

It's like the Nazis lying to you about the Holocaust, while cheering for it. Basically, your concerns are irrelevant, you'll be told whatever is needed to be quiet, now shut the fuck up and support them. You should've realized sooner that all "entitlement" rhetoric is pure projection, because nobody feels more entitled to your support than a reactionary.

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 00:45:04 No.402091

>>402084
I remember the sheer amount of asshurt sseth's fanbase had for the Caves of Qud developers for kicking out reactionaries from their discord. It was like extreme asspain.

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 00:45:51 No.402093

>>402091
Better example is… literally any US election and third parties.

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 00:47:09 No.402094

Liberals be like:
1) the economy is ruthless competition between workers
2) all business is created for profit
…
3) we can build a better world with it

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 00:48:28 No.402096

>>402093
It seems as if they want to be seen as better than normies but need their support not just materially but also emotionally. They need to be seen as superior over others. They don't want vidya games that are even remotely appealing to normal people but at the same time they want the normies to think of them to be based or whatever. It's very strange, as "gatekeeping" is seen as a way to keep the libs from their hobbies (how that would work nobody there seems to give me a clear answer). Maybe I'm just looking to deeply into something here THOUGH

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 00:56:13 No.402105

>>402096
>It's very strange, as "gatekeeping" is seen as a way to keep the libs from their hobbies
That's just an attempt at dehumanization. Can't have "the enemeh" enjoying the same things as you.

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 01:37:07 No.402181

>>401984
>I'm a commie becasue I'm not getting my surplus value.
Socialists won't get their surplus value either necessarily. That's not the point. The point is to use that surplus for the benefit of society rather than for an asshole buying a megayacht with child hookers and cocaine.

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 01:38:04 No.402184

>>402181
Taxation isn't theft.

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 01:41:10 No.402190

>>402184
Yeah, but surplus value and taxes will be largely congruent in (early) socialism.

Tetra4Anon 2021-07-26 (Mon) 01:43:40 No.402195

>>402184
In fact it's good so long as the government acts fine and for the people instead of lavishing themselves in riches (by embezzlement and buying yachts wtf)

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 02:17:28 No.402268

>>402184
>porkies stealing surplus value
>”wow so evil and unjust”
>state steals money thru taxes
>”so based and not theft”
Why are tankies so ideologically inconsistent? The state taxes in the same way porkies steal value. Don’t act like they don’t lol

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 02:43:23 No.402339

>>402268
If you enjoy infrastructure above dirt roads and human development above subsistence farming, you need an entity, with authority, to maintain and regulate the economy and coordinate and perpetuate the politics. We usually call this entity "The (absolute) State". This entity does not come from nowhere, and can no maintain itself, thus requiring to be supported by those it manages. This is what taxes are for. I like healthcare, so I need someone to be a doctor, someone to train them, someone to supply them, someone to create the pharmaceuticals, and someone to drill the petroleum required to make those pharmaceuticals.

Tetra4Anon 2021-07-26 (Mon) 02:45:46 No.402343

>>402268
>ideologicallly inconsistent
Wow, so ideologically inconsistent! You'reright, especially when porkies steal surpuls value for the benefit of themselveswhile the state taxed people for their benefit.

Awesome argument 1%-sympathizer. You're longing to be a wage slave or even worse being employed in a plantation.

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 02:53:39 No.402361

File: 1627268019247.mp4 ( 3.18 MB , 1920x1080 , Ta-Ta-Tax Fraud! (Reprise)….mp4 )

>>402339
I am pro-taxation, but I recognize it's as forced on people as capitalism is. What if I don't want the stuff they're building with my taxes? I don't support transitioning Middle-Easterners to skeletons and bailing out companies. They are taking my money with threat of imprisonment in order to pay for these things.

Tetra4Anon 2021-07-26 (Mon) 02:56:39 No.402369

>>402361
Just take it to the streets with fellow leftists. The government will then back down to public pressure. Also the more progressive and anticapitalist America become the less likely they're going to transition Middle Easterners into skeletons.

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 02:59:13 No.402374

>>401986
Actually a good argument

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 03:06:45 No.402400

>>402361
That's because the State you currently live in, is operated by and in service of the bourgeoisie, which is why it is imperative for you, and your fellow proles, to violently take over the state, and cynically and ruthlessly run it for the benefit of proles/peasants such as yourself, and oppress everyone else. It's called a "Dictatorship of the Proletariat".

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 03:22:56 No.402457

I am retarded but wouldn't the lib argument talk about fluid resource allocation and then Cockshott or someone would respond that you don't need a price signal to know how to allocate resources? Hopefully someone knows what I'm talking about because I don't
>>402268
>ooga booga spending monies is theft

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 03:33:44 No.402500

>>402457
>>ooga booga spending monies is theft
literally no-one is implying that

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 03:35:50 No.402507

>>402500
what do you think is supposed to happen to tax money

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 03:39:43 No.402517

>>402268
The nature of a society is determined by who organizes the surplus product and to which means it is organized. In a socialist society, the surplus product is organized democratically for the support of the broad mass of workers. In capitalist society, the main bulk of the surplus product is organized in the hands of private bourgeois, who have no democratic accountability and can spend it as they see fit, most often completely disregarding the public's needs.

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 03:46:19 No.402529

>>402374
Except for the fact that Capitalism created a poltical-legal regime to negate any chance of that "risk" turning out poorly. Hence financial institutions will always be bailed out by the federal government while the working class gets shafted again and again.

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 08:35:22 No.402990

>>402374
It is not. Even if we assume that the person taking on the risk of enterprise deserves the profit, which is very debatable, that does not justify the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.
The proletariat is just as capable of establishing production and taking risks as the bourgeois class, and in fact is much more efficient and careful in the process than the bourgeoisie. Given this, from a simple utilitarian perspective the extraction of surplus value away from the proletariat is an unnecessary and wasteful process with no benefit to humanity as a whole.

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 08:58:51 No.403007

>>401986
What if your employee risks workplace injuries? Does it balance out?

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 09:13:24 No.403014

>>403007
Also remember that the worst case scenario if Porky's "risk" doesn't pan out is that he no longer owns any capital and now has to work for a living like the rest of us.

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 12:20:01 No.403122

>>401986
This meme needs to die, capitalists don't absorb any risks, they socialize the risks with austerity. >>403007
You don't have to grant him that premise.

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 12:29:06 No.403124

>>402374
Risk does not create value. If it did, the best way to get rich would be to play Russian roulette. Also, the risks capitalists take are overstated as usually they're playing with loaned money and the worst thing that can happen to them is they become a prole. That they think being an ordinary person is a punishment is telling.

Anonymous 2021-07-26 (Mon) 16:58:07 No.403416

>>402374
This isn't even a good argument if you're comparing who takes more risks. Workers definitely take MORE risks than porkies, in every case.
Working class ppl have little to no job security. Working class ppl can be fired at any time. If working class ppl get in a car accident, get sick for a long ass time, or any number of reasons to not work, they better have sick days or they're screwed. Workers are constantly getting their jobs automated.

Unique IPs: 18