/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>the honest lumpen
<when you need a positive qualifier to make a point

lemme try
>the honest bourgeois

>So does this explain why UBI, state reformism, anarchism and idpol are so consistently popular within working-class populations
The lumpenproletariat aren't working class. The lumpenproletariat is NOT the same as the reserve army of labor.

>>398112
The premise of the argument is wrong, identitarianism is not coming from the base it's being forced onto people by the superstructure.
It's synthetic politics generated by the bourgeois spectacle.

Sounds like an interesting article, I'll give it a read later.

>So does this explain why UBI, state reformism, anarchism and idpol are so consistently popular within working-class populations, instead of old-school labor organizing?
If I understood it correctly from the parts you posted, then imo yes, but I don't know how useful the term lumpen is in this context. I think the "needy opportunist" or "honest lumpen" can be better understood as a new sector of the proletariat.

>>398123
Honest lumpens as opposed to criminals, which are also part of the lumpenproletariat as Marx defined it. Again, I think the usefulness of the term lumpenproletariat is extremely limited and Marx used it only in passing.

>>398129
Precarious work is a thing. Temporary and part-time employment is everywhere, especially now during COVID.

>>398136
The whole point of the base-superstructure model is that the latter is determined by the former. Thinking the popularity of identity-based struggles is just a carefully concerted propaganda effort that has nothing to do with how capitalism works in the 21st century is peak idealism.

>>398142
>I think the usefulness of the term lumpenproletariat is extremely limited and Marx used it only in passing.
Marx used the term consistently throughout his work, last 2 months before his death. You don't know what you are talking about. The Bakunin-Marx split happened over (among others) the lumpen question.

>Honest lumpens as opposed to criminals
Literally doesn't matter. It's not criminality that makes a lumpen lumpen, but his long term non-relation to society's production.

>Precarious work is a thing.
That's a completely different topic.

>>398151
I suggest you read my post again, because none of it contradicts what you just said. Polite sage

>>398142
>The whole point of the base-superstructure model is that the latter is determined by the former.
id-pol is not generated by the base, it's the superstructure trying to maintain control over the base by means of divisive politics.
You are trying to butcher Marxist theory to maintain the illusion the identitarianism originates from the people. There is no organic consent for this in the population it is manufactured. Why do you think the idpol movements have such incredibly punitive social relations and are so quick to exclude people, If they allowed participation of the masses, id-pol would evaporate.

Maybe i have to dumb this down: when you want to do authoritarianism but you have no credible claim to authority, you do identitarianism. The entire movement is from above, even the way the identitarian arguments are constructed sounds more like the precise language of a lawyer making a carefully calibrated appeal to a judge, not something that comes from the masses.

>>398136
>>398280
>only capitalists and glowies perpetuate idpol
Such a massive leftoid COPE
As if there weren't a ton of identitarian movements perpetuated by workers and activists starting in the 1960s after the New Left/New Communist Movement failed
As if BLM is all just a trick of wealthy professionals and corporations and doesn't have significant grassroots support among blacks and the working poor

>>398519
BLM is literally funded by the Ford and Bill and Melinda Gates foundations

>>398112
>Gorz adds that they have “no transcendent unity or mission, and hence no overall conception of history and society,” and that their disconnection from labor renders the very contours of postindustrial socialism into libertarianism. The honest lumpen thus makes socialism libertarian and policy-focused.
What did he mean by this?

>>398530
People on the ground who use the slogan have nothing to do with any kind of national group

>>398519
Maybe the stuff in the 60s was organic, has anybody researched it ? But today, workers don't have the money to fund identitarian movements.
>>398583
If i had to guess, a grass routs version of BLM would probably focus their struggle for material demands like, ending the war on drugs, ending private prisons and for police demilitarization.

>>398583
so that makes them useful idiots, cope faggot