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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1626999543711.jpg ( 59.04 KB , 457x640 , 468bf83e2ebe613d2683af95a7….jpg )

 No.395252

Why is eugenics bad? I have a relatively minor genetic disease I inherited from my father and it sucks. I saw my dad suffering it as i grew up, getting dizzy and having to lie down. I didn't have it at first but now that im older i ended up getting the same shit, i feel dizzy all the time and tired as fuck.

Yes I know eugenics has a bad rep due to nazism and scientific racism. And there's arguably capitalist eugenics as well, preserving the life and health of the rich at the expense of the working class. But if there was a rational social order, eugenics based on actual science and genetics rather than race or class, why would it be bad?

Why would a person who has a chance to pass on genetic disorders, or a serious transmissible disease (eg. HIV) do that? You're condemning an innocent child to a life of suffering.

Is it really wrong to say its a bad idea for people not to pass this on? I only have a minor condition I can only imagine what its like for people with severe conditions
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 No.395271

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 No.395272

Why do I want private firms or the “worker’s state” deciding who gets to breed and who doesn’t?
Why do I want them deciding which genes get to live and which genes get to die?
Why would I trust any eugenics measure beyond screening for genetic diseases (which I would not even see as eugenics) to not veer off into some sort of murderous or genocidal ideology?
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 No.395289

File: 1627000050760.png ( 46.41 KB , 269x275 , 1626718394987.png )

>Why do I want the workers state deciding how much people get paid
>Why do I want the workers state deciding how to cure diseases
>Worker state bad and can't be trusted (Rule 5.3)
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 No.395294

>>395289
Can you please just fuck off to /pol/ already?
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 No.395296

I learned a little bit of contemporary genetics when I was in college and even I'm still confounded by its complexity. I graduated in 2013, but if Crispr is still the best genetic engineering tech we have, I don't think we're ready for eugenics.
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 No.395304

>>395289
What the fuck does basic medical care and material compensation for labor have to do with eugenics you fucking baboon?
Can you just go home already https://boards.4chan.org/pol/catalog
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 No.395307

>>395304
>>395294
I mean, not a whole lot of people want down syndrome.
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 No.395310

>heart transplant = basic medical care
>turning a couple genes off = NOOOO THATS NAZISM POL POL POL POL
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 No.395311

>>395307
Again, why is this not in the purview of medical science then? Why is it pushed into eugenics? Eugenics has a very different connotation since “Improving the human race” is a nebulous idea that means different things to different people. For some people it is nonsense like giving people superpowers, for others it is nonsense like operating death camps to destroy “undesirables”.
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 No.395313

>Why would a person who has a chance to pass on genetic disorders, or a serious transmissible disease (eg. HIV) do that? You're condemning an innocent child to a life of suffering.
>a chance
Better to support voluntary abortion and suicide rights. You're allowed to have a genetic disorder and still enjoy life.
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 No.395314

>>395310
Witness how the polyp feigns ignorance
Look at its utter dishonesty and cowardice
The fear it holds in simply saying its own views openly
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 No.395316

Proletariat genetic altering good
Bourgeois eugenics bad
Simple as!
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 No.395321

http://eugeneseffortposts.royalwebhosting.net/whatiseugenism.html

Posted here for my effortpost explanation.

How to make it short: eugenics necessarily implies a control over society and internal barriers that would make life impossible. There is no way to do eugenics without a fascist political order, in a way that is recognizably "eugenics".

You have to ask why a genetic disease should automatically result in a loss of political rights, and eugenics can only work not just by stripping away political rights but imposing laws on the lower classes. There is no eugenics except "negative eugenics".

Given that the eugenicists themselves are cravens of the worst type, that clearly exhibit the signs of mental disease in addition to clearly undesirable phyiscla traits, it should be an easy recommendation that eugenics is faggotry. Galton was clearly an incel and a sexual pervert, it comes across in how he writes. A lot of these eugenicist guys are, like the Corn Flakes assholes.
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 No.395325

>I wish I wasn't born and so should you
bawwwwww, NOBODY CARES, CRIPPLE
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 No.395326

>>395321
Based Eugene
Can’t believe motherfuckers are now openly promoting Eugenics on fucking leftypol and pretending that the only reason to oppose it is “muh liberalism”
Half of all fucking liberals advocate for eugenics, goddamn
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 No.395327

Eugenics is literally just biological utilitarianism. "If I was born slightly under 'optimal' conditions, whatever that means, that would condemn me to a life of misery!!" and other retarded arguments. Also a bit of fate bullshit on top.
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 No.395330

>should we work to improve everyone's lives?
<no, let's simply cull the weak under incredibly arbitrary terms
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 No.395338

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>>395252
We're doing eugenics right now. Women abort trisomic babies often enough, we operate on newborn defects to give them earing etc. That said is it bad? I don't know. I think we should choose what we want to be, and the mother should have some choice to get her baby some operation. Ultimately we should respect and give each other a place to live correctly in the society, whatever we are.
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 No.395340

>>395313
>You're allowed to have a genetic disorder and still enjoy life.
implying people who never existed can feel sad about not having been born
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 No.395349

>>395340
Since you're a retard I welcome you among the community of disabled people still enjoying life
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 No.395352

I think a stumbling block is that people mentally stop at taking eugenics at face value, and that it is limited to "the science" and a biological question. Eugenics has been, from its start, a political project and one informed by the elite milieu of the late 19th century. Eugenics really took off when the slave trade ended and slavery was outlawed. How was this possible? Eugenics presented a way to practice slavery in industrial, market-dominated societies, and it presented a way to expand the slave power to the formerly free white population. A great problem with this is that it had to select carefully which whites would be subjugated, and the only way to do that - the only way to end forever the class struggle - was to thoroughly segregate the whole population into grades, and then enforce that segregation throughout the whole society by an immense preponderance of force.

People underestimate just how much society was transformed starting in the late 19th century, and it's working off a plan drawn by the Fabians and eugenicist strains of socialism. The proliferation of ball sports, which used to be a game played by children and young adults or a game played for petty recreation, were turned into a consumer bonanza. In America, the insertion of collegiate sports into the mainstream of society was very deliberate and represents a eugenicist project, one more explicitly clear in the first half of the 20th century. The elite American universities remained after the second world war devout believers in eugenics, examining each student as they entered the elite castes. This has never ended, not for a moment. Hence, the eugenic faithful remain convinced just as much as they were at the zenith of the official eugenics movement, waiting for the day when they can proclaim their religion in the open. That day came upon us last year, of course, and we are today in the middle of the final struggle between eugenics and the rest of humanity.
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 No.395356

>>395252
It already exists, its called prenatal genetic screening and abortion.
No woman wants to have a crippled baby when she can simply say no and try again.
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 No.395357

>>395289
Based moddies.
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 No.395358

File: 1627001735182.jpeg ( 40.44 KB , 700x505 , 2A0C0A82-4627-4C88-B6AB-B….jpeg )

>>395352
Well you were based for a moment my brother
But even one moment was enough to deter the Zizekfag and for that I am grateful
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 No.395359

>>395314
Kys newfag
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 No.395360

>>395359
God it’s like the fucker shows up when you mention it
Like a summoning ritual
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 No.395361

I wish I could understand Gorillas and Dolphins bros. 🧠🦍 🐬
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 No.395363

>395352
Ah yes, the schizo expert. You're wrong dude, there is no conspiracy, the horror of our world lies in our silent cooperation while its mechanisms crush us. No conspiracy needed, those people just want to make money.
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 No.395365

>>395358
IDK what your objection is? Fabian socialism is bourgeois socialism, the kind of thing Marx warned about. The Bolsheviks in their strongest days pushed against eugenics, though they were imperfect in understanding just what was happening.
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 No.395369

>>395358
>Eradicates downs
<Wowee what a heckin sciencerino
>Discouraged birth of people with downs
<NOOO THATS POL
The reason Eugene is based is because he fucking knows what he's talking about, you're just a brainlet riding on his good posts that answer OP's questions.
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 No.395370

>>395365
Uh….
The part when you started saying that sports was part of a eugenicist plot to enslave humanity and that capitalism basically never existed (since you say eugenicism took over in the 19th Century)
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 No.395374

>>395363
Eugenics is not profitable, nor is it entirely conspiratorial. There are scum of humanity who latch on to eugenics without being a member of the eugenicist societies and proper organizations. Eugenics is a global movement. It is the movement of fascism worldwide.
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 No.395375

>>395349
yeah but you havent addressed the point. Eugenics isnt about stripping disabled people of their rights, in a truly eugenic world disabled people would have never existed to begin with, like Gattaca but if everyone was made artificially instead of some people.

so i ask you again, how can people who never existed can feel sad about not having been born?
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 No.395379

>>395369
Why the fuck are you calling gene therapy eugenics?
Why the fuck are you acting like Eugene agrees with you when his last post was deriding people like you that take eugenics at face-value?
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 No.395386

>>395375
That’s where you’re wrong
Eugenics was always about stripping disabled people, the colonized, the poor, and the lumpens of their rights

That bullshit about “improving the human condition” was a smokescreen for their actual barbarous intentions
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 No.395389

>>395386 (me)
Well less “rights” since they already didn’t have that shit and more their actual lives and existence outside of legal slavery
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 No.395400

>>395389
>>395386
yeah but the premise of OP is what if you could have a eugenics based on rationality(genetic disease) and not that racist bullshit its traditionally been based on
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 No.395403

>>395374
>Eugenics is not profitable
Then it can not exist in a meaningful way. The history is hitherto the history of class struggle. We live in the capitalist phase, and eugenics is not (yet) profitable, hence its non existence. You're imagining things. You write well and you're clearly smart, it's truly a loss for us that you indulge in these fantasies.
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 No.395406

>>395400
So what if eugenics wasn’t what it is?
Maybe the problem is OP formulated a retarded bait question with the predictable result in mind?
Because effectively what has been asked is “Hey guys, if medical tech continued to advance should we use it to eradicate more diseases” and then decided to tie this in to an ideology centered around exterminating the weak
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 No.395411

>>395406
because thats what eugenics was marketed as and thats what people will call it because it sounds the same
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 No.395413

>>395379
You fail to understand barely anything of this thread, much like every other thread I have to respond to you. Eugene is based, that doesn't mean we agree on everything, but what he did was answer OP, see
>>395400 this.
>Why are you calling selectively aborting kids based off diseases eugenics?!
Lib, I…
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 No.395415

>>395413
>(You)
>(You)
>(You)
Are fucking boring, goddamn
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 No.395419

>>395415
The cry of absolute defeat, see you next thread
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 No.395420

>>395370
It was a very, very small part. The point of the proliferation of games that were meant for children was to infantilize the population and recreate "schooling" in every other sphere of social existence. Eugenics in its fullest form would reproduce the school such that no one can escape the judgement made at an early age. We already see this with the schoolification of the workplace.
Sport as a concept is not eugenicist. I like sports just fine, but I think it is silly we have turned it into this huge thing. Nor is the elevation of sports entirely due to a eugenic plot. It has a lot more to do with gambling being the real past-time of humanity, and you need something to gamble on. But the proliferation of games and stadiums was something HG Wells explicitly wrote about as a kind of social engineering.

>>395375
There is no form of eugenics that does not entail a central body dictating who is and isn't eugenic, and what rights the subordinated classes would have. Only the highest grade of civic worth would enjoy full political liberty in the eugenicist world-system, and all other groups would be by definition subordinated. On the flip side, pure eugenics would entail that the highest grade of civic worth would not be bound by any laws at all - hence "there is no law in Oceania".
I wouldn't even call the "improving the human condition" thing a smokescreen. If you read Galton, he's very clear about what would be needed to improve the human gene stock, and you can extrapolate that to figure out what it would mean for liberal civil society (that effectively, it would mean the end of liberalism as such).

If you want to speak of disability, you have to ask why life with a disability is so hellish. The vast majority of misery from disability comes purely from the actions of other people, particularly in a eugenicist society which teaches the young from birth to scorn the disabled simply for existing and taking "their" food and water and oxygen. The decision to bring a child with Down Syndrome into the world, or to abort it, is one thing, but eugenics clearly stipulates that such children must be treated as modern day lepers at best, or subjected to the most abject slavery at worse. Down Syndrome is one of the few cases where the genetic theory really worked out for them, and so eugenics jealously defends the persecution of Downs people. As a result, anyone with Downs is subjected to a regime of torture and humiliation that has few equivalents. About the only thing that comes close is the mythology around autism, and even there it has not elevated to the point where someone with Downs is automatically stripped of all legal, civil, and human rights except those that may be revoked at any time. The attitude towards Downs people is so awful that mere slavery is see as an improvement in their social standing. Starting in the 1990s, the schools and eugenics were pushing hard to put autistics in the same group, and pushed aggressively this new form of slavery in the social experiments. I recall this indoctrination and the mental damage it wreaked on me and people like me. A lot of people like myself didn't make it, killed themselves or wound up dead or imprisoned.

At some point you have to ask, as you do with chattel slavery, if it is worth this. Is it worth the many billions, if not trillions, of dollars invested purely in maintaining the class/caste system, just so some eugenicist assholes feel better about themselves and get that good feeling. To a utilitarian, for whom base and crass pleasure is moral goodness, the answer is obvious.
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 No.395422

>>395419
>>395413
>>395415
Maybe it's time to take down the flag, this is becoming ridiculous.
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 No.395427

And since people are asking, "gene therapy" is not "eugenics" in a meaningful sense. It's a medical intervention that is supposed to remove the supposed genetic disease, and thus allow someone to not be demoted in political status.

There are no actual "gene therapies" though. It's just "detect the defective, and kill it". But the important thing to eugenics is not that it ever succeeds in "eliminating genetic disease". If there were no underclass in a eugenicist society, it would be necessary to invent one. Nor does the eugenicist particularly care about eradicating the existing of Downs people or autistic people. It is more important to eugenics to enforce the social order as it is, with the university-educated elite on top and in their rightful position and the lesser castes pushed for everything that can be extracted from them.
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 No.395435

>>395420
You might enjoy this video Eugene, it talks a lot about how the treatment of disabled people qualitatively changed under capitalism to a condition of brutal and murderous oppression where the premium was specifically on making life difficult for the disabled and elderly because you can’t whip them in the factory the way you can everyone else
https://youtu.be/cJQphVk0FMk
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 No.395439

>>395435
Thanks for the recommendation. I haven't watched this one but Prolekult puts out some good stuff.
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 No.395441

>>395427
Okay so you realize the inherent problem embedded in all this when most people that went to university have no actual power, aren’t wealthy, and are chained by debt?
Especially in 2021
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 No.395459

>>395441
There is not a disconnect between the upper strata of the university and the haute bourgeoisie. The richest capitalists install themselves at the head of prestigious universities, and find candidates to staff the enterprises and foundations of the oligarchs. The capitalists have a lot to do with deciding what does and does not constitute "smart", and how we are selecting for merit in the first place. Hence, you can find some really dumb people who are great at bullshitting, who can become priests of ideology and are paid well, who have a key role as functionaries. The university as an institution is necessary for the perpetuation of both the upper middle class, the new class, and the monied elites. Eugenics is premised on an alliance between the new class and the rich, whereas communism was premised on an alliance between the new class and the poor. The end goal in both cases was the proposition (held by the new class) that everyone would actually want to be in the new class. The latter presumed the abolition of classes as such but that the liberated people would naturally choose the attitudes of the new class over their proletarian or peasant behaviors. The former reserves the new class for a select few, and would call for the lower classes to lose any concept of natural rights or human rights or any other kind of right. The rich would, due to their wealth and presumed merit, have a leg up in entering the new class and merging with the new order, if by some chance private fortunes gave way to a new form of oligarchy. But again, the attitudes of what constitutes "smart" in a eugenic mindset were already informed by what the owning class and their institutions wanted to be considered "smart". That's the rub with meritocracy, in that there isn't a true objective standard for these things.

I'm rewriting my book and doing podcasts about this topic, and I want to especially make it clear how the meritocratic system of intellectual production we have today started up.
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 No.395461

>>395427
>allow someone to not be demoted in political status.
In which world the do you think you are?!
Bourgeois v Proletarian. This is the political status
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 No.395462

>>395441
The big point is that the acolytes of the university may have intentions opposed to the interest of business, but those acolytes are not somehow innocent or pure, and they have their own objectives which may entail harm to the lower classes. In a university that is already dominated by the haute bourgeoisie, in which the alliance between the rich and the educated is very explicit, the intellectuals overwhelmingly favor system of control, more than their mere status as products of a strong intellectual production institution would imply.
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 No.395463

>>395459
But I’m asking about the majority of proles who matriculated into shit like public college and didn’t get anything out of it aside from a piece of paper and a debt chain
Which, AFAIK, is most people under 40 who went to college
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 No.395465

>>395461
Bourgeoisie and proletarian are economic classes, not political distinctions
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 No.395468

>>395459
this is steve bannonite bullshit, the whole concept of "educational elites" that posits that literally anyone who went to college is an elite or somehow more in control than porky is BS. You're just mystifying the nature of class society by conflating class with education, which doesnt even make sense, maybe in the past when universities were finishing schools for the rich but in a post ww2 era of mass higher education where 35-50% of the general population has gone, there is nothing elitist about university as >>395463 points out.
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 No.395470

>>395427
right and wrong they are both, I don't get why you entertain your lone folly while it's clear you have potential, the field of Marxist research is vast so why do you obsess over stupid shit rather than give your intelligence to the people?
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 No.395475

>>395252
Controlling who gets to breed with whom is totalitarian nonsense, but I'm not opposed to sterilizing people as punishment and legalizing euthanasia of extremely low functioning people or highly defective babies.
Genetic engineering will allow for improvements in the genetic health of individuals and populations without the need for a totalitarian political order likely to be rife with abuse and arbitrary application of standards. Genetic engineering will be extremely cheap as its perfected and proliferated, the bioinformatics is the most expensive part. The only potential issue on the pricing is biomedical patents, which is why patent reform should be a more important issue than it is.
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 No.395479

>>395463
The people who washed out got scammed, and more and more of them are pissed about what was done to them. But the scam is older than us. There was the "real" education, and then there was the participation trophy. Part of the modern meritocracy is that your work status would follow you everywhere you go, and eugenic judgements would be gathered and put in a record. This is what the mass collection of data in the past few decades entailed, and why people were particularly worried about privacy. Even if they couldn't dare speak of what was being done, they knew something was up and there was a great sorting of the population during the neoliberal period.

>>395468
Again, the haute bourgeois have a huge role in deciding what the universities will be, and have a lot to do with why we have "meritocracy" pushed so aggressively as a meme. It was the rich who decided that if you don't go to college, you're not really human. This goal was shared by members of the new class, who bought in to that status and had property to defend as a result of that status, who wanted to defend the institutions that made them better than the ordinary pleb.

How many of the rich are not connected to institutions of education? There are not that many millionaires that could turn their back on the educational institutions forever. Even if their status was guaranteed by inheritance, it is expected of them to pass through university and join the meritocracy in their own right.

How does "Porky" control the world without educated functionaries? We do not live in a world where the capitalist is an uncouth warlord or a king in all but name. No major firm today could survive without becoming technocratic, or playing ball with those who are firm believers in a technocratic government.

You're just so selfish and can't look past your own naked interests, and so any deeper analysis of what technocracy means is lost to you. None of it matters, just what feels good to you at this particular moment. There are university grads who see what a broken system the meritocracy is, and they will complain about it with firsthand knowledge of how they were screwed over. Just about everyone who rises very high in the university has to deal with the politics of academia and the vast amounts of bullshit that entails. I have family who can tell me about how fucked it all is, with more knowledge than I have. Are any of them going to give up their status in a fit of wangst? Of course not. I already told them to treat me however they need to in order to survive in this world, and that I don't want to be more of a burden on them. My fate was decided more than 35 years ago.
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 No.395481

>>395470
A "gene therapy" is not eugenics any more than a heart surgery or antibiotic is eugenics. Eugenics is very explicitly a political program in which laws are passed empowering a central body to judge what is and isn't eugenic, and appropriate legislation to enforce that eugenics if ordinary people refuse to comply with the central body's dictates. There is no way you could have "free eugenics" in which people truly make their own decisions about what is eugenic and what is not. It is anathema to the basic way in which eugenics must collect information on the people to judge their social class. Galton's movement was very clearly a movement of the intelligentsia, who took it upon themselves over and above the capitalist system to enforce good breeding. You can argue about how much power Galton commanded over political affairs, but the reality is that the rich couldn't make their own eugenics based on arbitrary feelings. They had to work with Galton's Eugenics Society, rather than make their own eugenics society.
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 No.395482

File: 1627004961880.webm ( 1.39 MB , 1280x720 , 1579972135558.webm )

>>395252
eugenics is going to be outdated anyways with gene editing and before long, cybernetic augmentation. as long as humanity can survive and transition to socialism anyways, capitalism doesn't have a chance to survive long enough in any organized form to make either widespread
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 No.395487

>>395482
This may be an argument, but augmentation raises similar questions. Fundamentally eugenics concerned classes of civic worth. If we have a new paradigm in which people can be modified every generation, you have a new question - should people be declared obsolete when a new production line of humans are created with better features? Ultimately you are still left with the question of the person's relationship to society and the state.

Of course, the ruling ideology of today answers that for us, but it is is an unpleasant answer - essentially, the answer is the fascist one, in which the state is totalizing. This is not how human individuals think, and not how societies actually function when we look at the collectivity. It is nothing more than a pretense certain philosophers hold about society and the state.
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 No.395492

>>395481
So basically I think your reasoning is solid. But do you realize how far you went with something I didn't even mention with your "gene therapy"? Yeah you can think, make hypothesizes and theories but your axioms are all coming from a bear's ass. Too many voices in your head dude. Do you take some medication? Do you see a shrink?
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 No.395494

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>>395479
>It was the rich who decided that if you don't go to college, you're not really human.
yes but they did that as an excuse. They always knew meritocracy was bullshit, pushing "its because of lack of education" is the same shit they are pushing today with "skills gap, labor shortage" BS. It's always an excuse for paying workers less because the truth is, they just want to exploit. "everyone go to college" is a meme that started in response to neoliberal globalization moving blue collar work offshores, but then it became apparent there arent enough jobs for college grads, then it became muh STEM degrees only, muh advanced degrees, then it became fuck college drop out and teach yourself from a bootcamp or self taught and do a startup like Mark Fuckerberg or bill gates, now its "TRADES" that are being memed as the solution. Your answer implies they actually value education, when in fact the actual rich just use it as an EXCUSE for why proles lack "merit". Its really the upper middle class pmcs who value education not actual porkies which is why i called it bannonite petit booj shit. its the same as right populist critiques of "educated coastal elites".

your whole ideology is a cope for lacking university education and feeling insecure about it when in reality even porky and general bourgeois society is moving on from the college for everyone meme and has for several years now.
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 No.395495

>>395487
holy shit fuck off you super-schizo, work will be automated to such an extent that any augmentation will ultimately be superficial and towards one's own desires, we have reached a productive-forces level of post-scarcity and capitalism only currently suppresses that through the use of heavy artificial scarcity. nobody will need some kind of augmentation to define societal worth on a material level (or """civic worth""" for your fascist-appropriated language) because the productive capacity of machinery has already long exceeded the capacity of humanity generally, and even presuming that capitalism somehow survives to have mass-available gene therapy when they can't provide widespread healthcare to anyone sans some social-democratic states which themselves are rapidly failing, they won't use a gene-edited workforce! they'll do what they have already done, consign the population off to busywork jobs that don't actually need done for the economy to function cause they need people to have wages to fuel consumption to keep capitalism afloat to begin with. and this is why all your eugenics shit is insane babble, capitalists are screaming and crying like babies cause proles aren't producing new generations of consumers fast enough and are mass-importing basically anyone into their countries to try and buffer the consumer economy because they need increasingly large amounts of consumption for these industries to maintain any profitability at all. there will not be any mass-progrom of proles on any level save a literal revolution because it would destroy capitalism's own stability.
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 No.395522

>>395492
So you admit you don't have an argument against me? Medical treatments are not tantamount to eugenics. That's one of the disgusting things about this debate, that eugenics seeks to conflate itself with medical treatment and health as a whole, and that anything that is not eugenics is ipso facto unhealthy and unscientific. It's maddening to talk to people like that.
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 No.395535

>>395494
The rich know they need educated professionals who know what they're doing if they want to stay on top. The technocratic apparatus was not based on arbitrary whimsy or a pure lie. If they didn't push for the university everywhere, they were going to lose the geopolitical struggle. It would be stupid if they didn't form the technocracy.

The rich really do believe they are the most meritorious, and that they have a right to rule because they earned it. The people who pass through the university all have an investment in seeing the institution perpetuate, because that university is their ticket to holding wealth and power. Part of maintaining what we have today requires the active support of that middle, educated, new class, which supports the regime for their own purposes. The educated, by and large, do not subscribe to radical politics or any great reordering of society. They quite like the present order of things, and if they do have a problem, the new class hates the poor more than oligarchs do. The concept that the poor and uneducated are anything other than useless eaters is entirely inadmissible in the 21st century. At most, this lower class is considered potential house servants, rather than a more abject form of slavery. So far as the right wing of the capitalist class move against the university, it is only taken so far as it forecloses the possibility of social advance. The technocratic period began with fairly open opportunities for social advancement because that was necessary, but after 1970, the primary sorting of society was complete. All that remained was to twist the underclass and beat out of them any notion that the world could be any other way. By the dawn of the 21st century, the new class, the middle class, were stronger believers in capitalism than the ruling elites themselves.
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 No.395540

The more things go on the more I realize Eugene has a very solid point about the mannerisms of the ruling class and the way in which capitalism is very much a thing that, at best, only extends halfway up the social pyramid. I still strongly disagree with the extent to which he accuses the sciences of being a conspiracy, but the social aspect of his claims are pretty much spot on, and they're blatantly obvious even as recently as a few days ago.

Vid related.

Here we have Le Black Science Man telling us all that we're all literally fucking worthless cavemen trying to drag the Pristine Real Humans back into the Cave Of Ignorance if we dare to interrupt their attempt to make a literal space tourism industry for billionaires to get their dicks sucked in zero G while there are people in large numbers dying of a pandemic even today. If you dare criticize this cruel state of affairs, you are an Ignorant Caveman. The ruling ideology is no different from the absolutely cruel way in which the "civilized people" viewed themselves as being "above" the suffering of the "savages" in the 19th century. He is literally spewing a repackaged White Man's Burden on TV to heavy applause by a decently large crowd of liberal fuckwits.
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 No.395545

>>395495
You have no fucking idea what labor entails, you childish faggot.
I don't know how people believe the ruling elites are secretly afraid of the masses and need to keep buying them off. The only reason they care at all about giving stuff to poors is to keep the supply chain at a barely functional minimum. That is coming to an end, and thus, there are reports of food shortages, all engineered. Farmers are complaining that they cannot sell their crops, because of engineered labor shortages and deliberate sabotage of the supply chain at every level.
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 No.395563

>>395540
I don't give a shit if Bezos and friends fulfill their childhood dream of being astronauts, at the end of the day. This is a false conflict in that we are told we are not allowed to have nice things, and we are supposed to scorn the rich for having nice things, rather than scorn the rich for what they actually do. The really damning thing is that private space exploration is a hilarious joke and a waste of money. About the only reason why this would be revolutionary would be if you subscribe to the belief that the 1960s-1970s space exploration programs were entirely made up.
The other really, REALLY damning thing is that our problems at home are deliberately engineered, rather than some accident which "just happens" to exist. The idea that we would live through Obama's austerity and privatization drive would have been seen as a barbaric outrage in the 1960s. They would think Obama was a ruthless dictator for doing what he did. It takes nothing less than the most extreme propaganda / brainwashing offensive in human history to present Obama as a legitimate head of state, or the whole political order of the past decade as anything other than a movement towards fascism. When that wasn't enough, they had to bring out the Gladio ops and Trumpism to kill even more people, for the sake of eugenics and the greed of the new class.

I can, in the end, expect the rich to do what they do. What I cannot forgive or abide is the new class and their behavior throughout this entire ordeal. At every opportunity, they have chosen to side with the most reactionary of oligarchic aims, clamoring to take them further. This is not even for the material advancement of the new class, but because this new class has become a class of the worst cravens and does so because they know nothing else. They have every opportunity to put a stop to this. All the madness we have seen for the past year could come to an immediate halt if the new class, in unison, exercised the power that was granted to them. They refuse to, because at this point, the new class is for me the greater evil than even the oligarchic capitalists. That's just how it is.
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 No.395571

>>395563
> The idea that we would live through Obama's austerity and privatization drive would have been seen as a barbaric outrage in the 1960s. They would think Obama was a ruthless dictator for doing what he did.
For some reason I doubt the people that lived through and largely supported Reagan, Thatcher, the Clintons, Bush, and Blair would call Obama a ruthless dictator for doing exactly what they all did
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 No.395598

>>395571
Reagan was elected after a very significant chunk of the electorate stopped voting, because the Democrats had become that objectionable and were experimenting with their own kind of neoliberalism. The people of voting age in the 60s thought that if you tried to do even what Reagan did, it would lead to disaster. Reagan had to push hard within his own party for what he was about to do, so much that even Poppy Bush called it voodoo economics. If you told someone in 1964 that you were going to force people to buy private health insurance at extortionate rates, then conspire to jack up the cost of health care even further with the intention of driving poor people to bankruptcy, and you were going to do that by printing 15 trillion dollars and giving it all to banking oligarchs, what do you think that would look like? Shit, critics of Obama when it happened were willing to call this outrageous theft what it was, but the narrative was hypernormalized and turned into "reactionary Tea Party talk". By that time, though, people were so beaten down and demoralized, and Bush Jr. just started a literal Hitlerian war in the Middle East. It took decades of grinding and brainwashing, as I said, for people to support something as brazen as the Obama plan, and this was done in lockstep with every other country in the global capitalist order. China did it to an even bigger extent, except that they didn't have a middle class to dispossess that was particularly large. In China, the way it went, their equivalent of the Obama technocrats were "the rising Chinese middle class", and were invested in this sort of restructuring of society from the start. Those who won in Obama's restructuring of society are the most rabid in favor of the current planned crisis, so long as they retain their position over the lower class and have slaves delivering Grubhub.
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 No.396258

>>395598
Reagan was elected as a backlash to the new left

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