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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1626755728335.png ( 203.8 KB , 2252x3000 , Left Unity.png )

 No.389189

There seems to have be a lot sectarianism on this board as of late. I think we should lighten things up by promoting cooperation and harmony between different leftist sects. Let's start saying good things about other sects.

(I don't belong to any specific sect by the way)
>>

 No.389194

>every time an anarcho revolution fails it's blamed on Marxists
>it has nothing to do with the theoretical inconsistencies of anarchism, I swear
>anarchos pivot every time against "authoritarian" AES countries
>etc.

good luck with your thread, OP
>>

 No.389197

There are no sects on this board. There are only Tankies and those that haven't turned into Tankies yet.
>>

 No.389204

File: 1626756091512.jpg ( 20.29 KB , 1000x700 , 3123.jpg )

>>389197 amen
>>

 No.389214

pic:
>peace among us
>war on tyrants
I love how your OP pic is already sectarian. I want my communist revolution to be absolutely tyrannical against its enemies. This statement for "libsocks" and "anarchotards" is already problematic, while in fact they resorted to the same whenever they lasted more than a month.

So yeah, OP, fuck your fake "anti-sectarian" thread exactly because it is sectarian – in this context idealist, which is to say that you getting butthurt when Stalin gulags the kulaks while you are completely okay with the same in an anarcho/libsuck context.
>>

 No.389226

>>389197
Tankies are brainless tools of capital and historically illiterate with narcissistic tendencies.
>>

 No.389230

>>389214
>>389204
>>389194
>>389197
Say (1) good thing about anarchists.

>>389226
Say (1) good thing about Marxist-Leninists
>>

 No.389235

>>389230
>Say (1) good thing about anarchists.
they are not Trots
>>

 No.389237

File: 1626757012505.png ( 162.12 KB , 1486x424 , B6B58CBC-CBBB-4E95-8CD2-2C….png )

>>389189
People seriously need to drop the stupid mentality against authority. I thought this was already settled but apparently not.
>>389197
That depends on what you called tankies. Because it was originally just people supporting tanks in Hungary. Nowadays we have genzedong contrarian retards that don’t even hide their support for capitalism. The fact that they’re indistinguishable from the socdem “capitalism with a human face” without any self awareness but still called tankies is just stupid. Now you have literally anyone not a radlib called a tankie which made it meaningless.
>>

 No.389240

>>389235
Okay, hard mode: Say (1) good thing about anarchists without throwing another sect under the bus
>>

 No.389245

>>389230
>Say (1) good thing about anarchists.
Catalonia had some great labor camps and their secret police was lit. Unfortunately for them modern-day 'Anarchists' have already canceled them like they did with every real anarchist movement and almost anyone of their authors.
>>

 No.389252

Stalinoids have their heart in the right place but they really need to read more.
>>

 No.389256

>>389240
are you implying here that anarchism is a sect?
>>

 No.389262

>>389256
Yes. By "sect" I mean a specific variant of socialist thought. Marxism, anarchism, democratic socialism, and others are all sects. They also have their own sub-sects, like anarcho-communism and anarcho-mutualism for anarchism, and Marxism-Leninism and Trotskyism for Marxism.
>>

 No.389263

>>389252
>start as ancom
>read the classics (Goldman, Bakunin, Kropo)
<wow, this makes so much sense
>get into Marx
>get into Engels
<Jesus, these anarchotards are worse wreckers than the Fabians
<get into Lenin
>lol, never look back
<get into Stalin
>did (almost) nuffin wronk

literally no way back
>>

 No.389264

>>389262
>By "sect" I mean a specific variant of socialist thought.
So you admit here that you are redefining what a far left sect actually means. Good luck with that.
>>

 No.389265

>>389264
What definition do you use?
>>

 No.389270

>>389237
Tankie was and is still synonymous with modern revisionism, the only difference from the mid 20th century appearance is it being even more conciliatory to the bourgeoisie today.

Anarchists haven't accomplished much. At least they razed some churches I guess.
>>

 No.389294

File: 1626758821991.jpg ( 57.39 KB , 700x446 , aP7MYjQ_700b.jpg )

>>389270
>these people who sustained a communist project for 70 years are cringe
<these dudes who lit a torch in a church one time? they are kinda based
>>

 No.389300

/leftypol/ seems to only consist of glowies and /pol/lacks anymore, there are no leftists here
>>

 No.389336

>>389300
Yeah. All because of the media that has become right wing these days. They're in fact victims and you guys must sympathize for them and help them by providing reliable leftist news sources. Otherwise we can't stop this cycle of brainwashing. Until we end this by themselves. They brainwash us for their profit.
>>

 No.389350

>>389336
>brainwashing
is literally not a thing
>>

 No.389351

>>389300
I bet you haven't even read capital
>>

 No.389354

>>389294
Thanks for proving my point in your mental deficiency, you clearly are unable to parse simple sentences, let alone Marxist-Lenininst literature, Xionist McSocialist.
>>

 No.389357

Communism is when you want China to have 25% stock in McDonald's by 2100.
>>

 No.389358

File: 1626760352072.png ( 223.22 KB , 859x600 , rightwing.png )

>>389350
>is literally not a thing

< Pic:Then what is this?
>>

 No.389360

>>389300
Silly thing to say.
>>

 No.389368

>>389270
>Anarchists haven't accomplished much. At least they razed some churches I guess.
Look up a list of present anarchist communities.
Until we have real socialism, they're winning. If existing for decades as a stable autonomous region isn't praxis, I don't know what is.
>>

 No.389383

>communists and anti-communists should keep together
>>

 No.389400

>>389351
I don't think most posters have here
>>389360
All I see here are people who think everything the CIA says about socialism is true and that's based, or that it's not true but it should be
Okay perhaps it is extreme to say there are no leftists here, but at least a vocal minority is not
>>

 No.389408

>>389400
best posters were never "leftists" on leftypol

they were always communists
>>

 No.389415

File: 1626761775256.jpg ( 76.46 KB , 1280x720 , Ikishima, Midari 1.jpg )

>>389189
>Start a thread telling people to stop sectarian shitflinging
<People immediately start sectarian shitflinging
Why do I even bother with this site?
>>

 No.389438

>>389189
Much agreed comrade, the struggle to unite the left under the banner of a genuine Marxist pogrom, despite increasingly desperate denial from the pseudo-left Pabloite revisionist renegades, is striking fear into the hearts of the global imperialist monopoly bourgeoisie. Global capitalism, now more than 80 years into its terminal death agony, can only be transcended through the fulfillment of the objective historical revolutionary role of the class conscious proletariat. The emancipation of the proletariat must be the act of the proletariat itself - under the sole leadership, of course, of the one true world party of socialist revolution, the International Committee of the Fourth International. In their steadfast struggle against all forms of pseudo-left vulgarizations of revolutionary Marxism, David North and the SEP have won the Rank and File proletariat to a genuine Marxist program. The contradictions of global imperialism threaten a Third World War fought with nuclear weapons, and therefore the fate of not just the working class, but the human species itself, depends on resolutely exposing the Pabloites, Grantites, Cliffites, Healyites, Hansenites, Wohlforthites, Robertsonites, Mandelites, Steinerites, and all other forms of counter-revolutionary opportunism blocking the path to left unity and planetary proletarian revolution. We urge all workers, youth, and intellectuals stirred by this call to action to unite in Rank and File Committees and to contact the International Committee today.
>>

 No.389441

>>389400
According to a recent poll on /b/ about 40% claim to have finished at least one volume of Capital
>>

 No.389443

>>389415
hardware yourself for disappointment and life will be smoother
>>

 No.389454

File: 1626762667882.jpg ( 166.95 KB , 1200x827 , 5e4aadfc4fd08.image.jpg )

/larp/ general
>>

 No.389464

>>389441
wtf, that high? I've only read part of the Manifesto and decided I don't agree with Marx's vision even though I agree with his critique of capitalism.
>>

 No.389466

>>389415
Because the thread has no substance. It's literally saying ''don't think about pink elephants".
>>

 No.389470

>>389415
OP started the shitflinging, actually: >>389214

it's a bad faith thread
>>

 No.389471

>>389466
I didn't just tell people to stop saying bad things about other sects, but also to start saying good things about them.
>>

 No.389473

>>389438
>the left
Literal meaningless term.

There are communists, non-communists, and anti-communists.

FUCK YOUR """LEFT"""
>>

 No.389476

>>389473
ok then find another website.
>>

 No.389478

>>389470
>OP started the shitflinging, actually: >>389214
I did not intend to convey the message that that anon thought I was trying to convey. I literally just Google Image searched "left unity" and picked an image I thought looked cool. I was not trying to passive aggressively shit on anyone.

>>389473
I mean people who want to abolish capitalism and replace it with a more sustainable, inclusive system
>>

 No.389481

File: 1626763716868.jpg ( 38.45 KB , 600x337 , 022.jpg )

>>389476
no, u

>>389478
>I did not intend to convey
then maybe lurk more before you try to bridge unbridgeable chasms

<LEFT="people who want to abolish capitalism and replace it with a more sustainable, inclusive system"
LOL
>>

 No.389482

>>389478
>>389481
TIL: Greta Thunberg is "LEFT"
>>

 No.389486

>>389481
>then maybe lurk more before you try to bridge unbridgeable chasms
Well you can't blame someone for trying

>>389482
I am not aware of her ever advocating for the abolition of capitalism
>>

 No.389518

OK, I'll try to actually participate and say positive things about various sects:

Cliffite "third campist" Trots (UK SWP and US former ISO): Their manual of style is on point. They force their contributors to write concisely with as little academic or sectarian jargon as possible and this makes their publications far easier to read. This has the side effect of making them look less dogmatic and sectarian than they really are.

The SEP (publishes the WSWS):
They are super prolific and the WSWS can be a great resource if you cut out their spiel about recruiting workers and youth to resist Pabloite renegades. They cut through Porky's propaganda for me in advance. I especially like to use it to see what's really going on during imperialist provocations.

Marxist-Leninists (the PSL from personal experience): while I disagree with their views on PES and especially modern China, when it comes to opposing our own regime I get along with them well. I rarely see the snooty academic attitude you often get with Trots, and I appreciate that MLs are some of the most active forces in the anti-war movement.

Maoists: the same stuff that I said about MLs applies here. A bit more culty, but also better takes on PES and Dengism.

Anarchist groups: I don't have much IRL contact with them, but I highly respect their street fighting prowess. Anti-fascist action is important and anarchists usually lead the charge.

The AWL (my least favorite leftist group): I tried to think of positive things but I can't. Fuck the AWL.

>>389464
I think the number is inflated by people that gave up midway through and don't want to admit it.
>>

 No.389522

>>389486
>the abolition of capitalism
Anti-capitalism is meaningless, in the negative. it merely states what you oppose, not what you want.

This is what differentiates communism from your larp: it's a positive vision.
>>

 No.389530

>>389518
Now this is the kind of post I like to see. I am curious though what "AWL" is.

>>389522
"People who want to abolish capitalism" was only the first half of my definition of "the left". The second half was "replace it with a more sustainable, inclusive system".
>>

 No.389548

Anti-Sectarianism is simply an extension of Anon-Sectarianism, our current system, which nullifies sectarianism through allowing it very little opportunity to gain hold. You can't give any sectarian criticism of me because you don't know what sect I identify as. Statistically speaking, you've probably agreed with me and have had a constructive interaciton with me at some point, regardless of our likely differences.
>>

 No.389562

File: 1626766081434.jpg ( 18.53 KB , 562x99 , awl.jpg )

>>389530
The AWL is the Alliance for Workers Liberty. The main group is based in the UK with a few microsects internationally. The guru of the group is Sean Matgamna and politically they're best described as Shachtmanites. Max Shachtman led a faction of the early Fourth International that was expelled at Leon Trotsky's urging for refusing to support the USSR's invasion of Finland. Initially Shachtman claimed to oppose both the US and Soviet "camps" equally, but it wasn't long before he claimed that Soviet "bureaucratic collectivism" was worse than capitalism and that communists should critically support the US. This provoked another split, most prominent being Tony Cliff's followers who actually could make a case to oppose both sides equally.

The AWL is openly inspired by Shachtman and simps for US imperialism at every turn. An example of their perverse brand of mental gymnastics: back in the 80s they enthusiastically supported the Jihadist Mujaheddin in opposition to the Soviet Union. As soon as the US starting gearing up to invade Afghanistan however, these same forces were re conceptualized as "Islamo-fascism", and claimed that communists should critically support the US invasion in order to protect "free trade".
>>

 No.389579

>>389562
Thanks for the info
>>

 No.389749

File: 1626776941610.jpg ( Spoiler Image, 34.82 KB , 680x754 , x3pnd2v7p5w61.jpg )

>OP posts extremely rare anti sectarian thread
>immediately devolves into anarchist-bashing

This is why we can't have nice things. I'd rather fight for a failed cause than cuck myself to those who want to impose their personal authoritarian fantasies on me.
>>

 No.389768

File: 1626778308249.png ( 1.56 MB , 1051x1871 , ClipboardImage.png )

>>389189

Much agreed comrade, however it must also be understood that the growing movement against the racialist falsification of history, despite increasingly desperate denial from the pseudo-left Pabloite revisionist renegades, is striking fear into the hearts of the global imperialist monopoly bourgeoisie. Global capitalism, now more than 80 years into its terminal death agony, can only be transcended through the fulfillment of the objective historical revolutionary role of the proletariat. The emancipation of the proletariat must be the act of the proletariat itself - under the sole leadership, of course, of the one true world party of socialist revolution, the International Committee of the Fourth International. In their steadfast struggle against all forms of pseudo-left vulgarizations of revolutionary Marxism, David North and the SEP have won the Rank and File proletariat to a genuine Marxist program. The contradictions of global imperialism threaten a Third World War fought with nuclear weapons, and therefore the fate of not just the working class, but the human species itself, depends on resolutely exposing the Pabloites, Grantites, Cliffites, Healyites, Hansenites, Wohlforthites, Mandelites, Steinerites, and all other forms of counter-revolutionary opportunism blocking the path to left unity and planetary proletarian revolution. We urge all workers, youth, and intellectuals stirred by this call to action to unite in the Rank and File Committees and to contact the International Committee today.
>>

 No.389772

All the leftist ideologies have their good sides and bad sides what would be most pragmatic is to take what works from each and find how it can be fit together.
>>

 No.389952

>anarchist (two types)
<"black flag anarchist"
individualist, insurrectionist, illegalist, egoist etc. some of the bravest, least scared of breaking the law, least scared of pigs, most fun being had while doing praxis.
<"red flag anarchist"
bookchinists, rojava fans, syndicalists, some ancoms. i give them credit for not rejecting all forms of organization, especially platformists, and for mercing nuns in catalunya (based!)
>"libcom"/"councilcom"/"libmarxist"
what happens when an ancom reads marx but hasn't gotten that far yet. i really liked when the invisible committee went and gave glenn beck a panic attack.
>leftcom (bordigist)
you make good blues tracks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAQKJWy7jKA
>social democrats
the one i hate having to compliment the most. they… something something healthcare. something.
>trots (i have no idea how your subtendencies divide honestly)
you sold me my copy of "utopian and scientific" so i must at least give credit to trotskyist book tables. trotsky's own service as red army commissar is also appreciated.
>marxist-leninist (subtendencies thereof)
<dengist
your existence pisses off yankees so much, which is nice
<brezhnevist
broadly, "pro-soviet" posters. credit for a truly epic space program and rehabilitating stalin a little bit
<hoxhaist
lots of based things about you. besides mao's china or stalin's ussr, i'd pick hoxha's albania to live in gladly. anti-religious and pro-women policies especially dope.
<maoist
the best one of course. four active people's wars and more on the way!
<third worldist
even better than making yanks cry, you can make any firstie cry. unruhe is cringe but in a based kind of way
<titoist
into the pit they go
<guevarist
sexiest portraits in the game besides the maoist ibrahim kaypakkaya
>>

 No.390086

Marxism-Leninism is the only tendency that has brought real results. Everything else (including Maoism) is cope.
>>

 No.390223

bump
>>

 No.390315

>>389189
serious question for the anarchists here. if there was to be a ML-adjacent revolution in your country, would you not support it?
i seriously think most of this sectarianism is internet bullshit and when a serious anticapitalist and socialist movement picks up steam it will be supported by every leftist who has a life outside of twitter.
>>

 No.390394

>>390315
I would. Unless they really shock me with senseless barbarism. Even then I would form my own militia and not support the reaction.
>>

 No.390403

File: 1626799564058.png ( 6.71 KB , 308x209 , Untitled.png )

>>390315
>serious question for the anarchists here. if there was to be a ML-adjacent revolution in your country, would you not support it?

Lmao
>>

 No.390599

>>390403
You accidentally posted the real image.
>>

 No.390854

>>389197
Based
That's what Old BO (Che) wanted
>>

 No.390904

>>390315

Not an anarchist, but yes as long as it respects the autonomy and independance of our organizations. But it will not happens,as history proved it countless times.
>>

 No.390918

>>390403
Directorio Revolucionario were actual CIA backed agents.

They deserved what they got, death to the enemies of the revolution.
>>

 No.390967

You pathetic unempathetic dweebs can't even compliment another ""left""ist ideology? Hard mode: Nordic Social Democrat time, babies.
>global forefront of progressive policies
>inequality-adjusted HDI.csv
>achieved relatively low income disparity in a successful capitalist nation
>achieved high unionization in a successful capitalist nation
>isn't just one country doing its own thing that everyone around them wants to destroy
>demonstrated in practice many benefits of effective pro-social policies without the overt political oppression of citizens present in most "communist" states (immediate turnoff for many, including other socialists)
>related to previous point, provides an irrefutable comparator of why USA is shit even for liberalism
>demonstrated that humane prisons work
>made Westerners (not just Americans) listen to Bernie Sanders which is a gateway to actual socialism
It's literally the gateway for people who think "communism == evil dictatorship"
>>

 No.392331

>>389189
I'm all good with Marxist and socialist unity, but anarchism's methodological individualism, lack of a dialectical-material base, and refusal to embrace even the most pragmatic of "authoritarian" methods makes it an outright suicidal tendency that can never last more than a couple of years. I'm happy to find common ground with sane libsocs like the EZLN and Bookchinites, but any movement that rejects even the most basic policies of survival has no place within a revolutionary movement.

That being said, since they want us to say one nice thing about anarchism, I will at least say that anarcho-communism is correct in its conception of an ideal society that humanity should stride for. It's just a shame that they refuse to take the steps needed to reach that final society.
>>

 No.392340

>>392331
>anarchism's methodological individualism, lack of a dialectical-material base, and refusal to embrace even the most pragmatic of "authoritarian" methods makes it an outright suicidal tendency that can never last more than a couple of years.
factual and based
>>

 No.392351

>>389368
>Having a set of tiny communes existing with no real opposition from their host nations is winning
>Having an entire Caribbean nation succeed in maintaining Marxist-Leninism, drastically improving the lives of its people, assisting in anti-colonial efforts worldwide, and doing all this while under constant siege and attempts at regime change is somehow a lesser accomplishment
Cuba alone is greater than the entire sum of anarchist "achievements". To tell you the truth, I don't know why we feel the need to maintain "unity" with anarchists beyond some sense of courtesy. Not only are anarchists insanely obscure and powerless outside the internet, but they actively betray us whenever they feel a state like Cuba or Nepal is too "authoritarian". Frankly, just fuck em, let them dwell in their subreddits as Marxist-Leninism actually leads revolutions.
>>

 No.393250

File: 1626918115354.jpg ( 40.03 KB , 513x337 , 1626917810763.jpg )

Absolutely cringe thread full of LARPers, get out and talk to your class, anons. See what matters to them. I guarantee you it isn't this ideological purity shit. Just stop being so weird.
>>

 No.393713

File: 1626935724558.jpg ( 73.92 KB , 720x507 , tv0pkidl5ap21.jpg )

>>389237
>it is authoritarian to resist authoritarianism
uygha what?
>>

 No.393743

>>389415
Because /pol/ is way worse and you actually enjoy imageboards.
>>

 No.393750

i like anarchists
i like mls
i don't believe in the existence of leftcoms as a material thing
i like other maoists
>>

 No.393795

>>390315
Not an anarchist, but I'd argue yes, provided they respect already established "anarchist" territories etc. However, we have to work better at communication and keep infighting to more of a theoretical basis as opposed to killing eachother via Russian Civil War.
>>

 No.393824

File: 1626945472301.jpg ( 97.87 KB , 640x530 , anime battle marx bakunin.jpg )

>>393250
this. imagine explaining any of this shit to someone who isn't part of your retarded little subculture.
>>

 No.410074

File: 1627606895215.jpg ( 42.86 KB , 501x534 , 1623203676042.jpg )

>>389189
Why does revisionism is considered bad?, Marx was no prophet nor the manifesto some god-sent book in the end the more you notice even Lenin or Stalin would be considered a revisionist i the end the capitalism that Marx criticized evolved instead of collapsing

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