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 No.369405[View All]

While there are surely some people interested in Maoism on /leftypol/, the tendency has no noticeable presence here. From my observation Maoism has been gaining traction in socialist communities online recently. Though the ideology's influence is still relatively small, I'm optimistic that we're witnessing the earlier stages of Maoists winning leadership in the movements of the working class which will result in the reconstitution of Communist Parties guided by MLM. I started this thread to spur investigation and discussion amongst potential comrades.

Why Maoism? https://tjen-folket.no/index.php/en/2019/08/14/why-maoism-what-is-maoism/
"Maoism is developed in the first place by six great communist leaders: Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Gonzalo."
"The rightist line led China back to capitalism, and dismantled the dictatorship of the proletariat into a fascist state. (…) But the cultural revolution and Mao Zedong Thought inspired millions of people all over the world, and led to the creation of a number of new communist parties on a revolutionary basis. They started people’s wars in Peru, India, the Philippines, Turkey, and Nepal."
"Gonzalo and the PCP maintain that Mao’s mass line, the line for the protracted people’s war and the line for the cultural revolution are the foremost examples of Maoism’s universal applicability, along with Maoism’s advancement of Marxism’s philosophy and economy."
"Gonzalo Thought is Maoism applied to the concrete conditions for revolution in Peru, but it is the universal conclusions in these thoughts that apply to the rest of the world."

Maoist Resources:
http://www.marx2mao.com/
http://www.massline.org/
https://www.bannedthought.net/
https://struggle-sessions.com/

https://www.reddit.com/r/catsaysmao/comments/mahczm/mega_thread_on_maoism_and_a_debunk_of_all_of_the/
https://www.reddit.com/r/catsaysmao/comments/mkupvc/actually_existing_socialism_and_what_it_means_to/
https://www.reddit.com/r/PrincipallyMaoism/
174 posts and 11 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
>>

 No.387803

>>387759
I think these are all valid points, and I'm glad to see that we can have some common ground on points of labor aristocracy and three-worlds theory. I'll have to look into more on how PPW can manifest differently for different countries and different struggles while still maintaining its revolutionary core, and I'll check out the essay you linked. Thanks anon!
>>

 No.387805

>>387784
>>387787
Oh boy, are we gonna get a glimpse of the CPP-PCP rivalry right here on leftypol?
>>

 No.387806

>>387793
fair
>>387796
not true
>>387803
based! come back to this thread anytime palestanon
>>

 No.387810

schizo conspiracies about Tribune, Struggle Sessions and Tjen Folket being the same clique ITT
>>

 No.388278

>>387673
The Universality of Peoples War doesn't mean you can just start an armed conflict anywhere. It means that the principles which apply to a "peoples war" an be used anywhere. "Protracted" being the operative word. Mao recognised that the independence struggles of various nations had gone on for sometimes several hundreds of years, he understood that this meant the liberatory ideology has to account the fact that there will be losses, and there will be wins. Other to this, it is certain that no matter what, the people are already in a war, which will wage regardless of them even actively taken part. The class war, or the peoples war. The only way it can be over come is through struggle and the only way to learn how to struggle is to struggle. The only way to truly see capitalism and gain the experience of it for what it is is pushing against it. Obviously however, you can't immediately do this, you have to build, bit by bit, consolidating certain areas, using these as a spring board and an example in other areas. This could done in a network over several factories or neighbourhoods, it doesn't matter really, the principles Mao lays out are essentially tactical lessons
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 No.388322

Does anyone know where I can find softsubbed encodes of the Axis of War trilogy?
>>

 No.388327

>>388322
For those unaware, it's a trilogy of films dramatizing the events of the Chinese Civil War. It received a UK DVD release in 2010, which may be the source of the hardsubbed versions that exist on youtube. I've noticed an HDTV rip (or maybe Bluray source?) of the first film exists on China's CCTV6 youtube channel, and someone (presumably with 1905 access) has already ripped the other two, but they're in 720p. I haven't been able to find a DVD ISO or decent English softsubbed encodes yet; I have no idea where to look for better sources either. Any help would be appreciated.

UK DVD hardsubbed versions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhtwVWBXA7A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrRr_Vq1uHM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un2ydWcYiPg

CCTV6 / 1905 youtube rips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7d10-xyrzQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU3vFn0u4E0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tdec4WS8bQI

1905 listings..?
https://www.1905.com/mdb/film/59629/
https://www.1905.com/mdb/film/46773/
https://www.1905.com/mdb/film/58535/
>>

 No.388566

>>387482
Honestly, this is my same perspective, what's the point in embracing a tendency that dose not exist anymore (Classic Marxism-Leninism collapsed with the USSR and it's Eastern Bloc allies between 1989-1991), when the only tendency waging armed revolution against Capitalism in the 21st century is Marxism-Leninism-Maoism (The Protracted Peoples Wars in India. the Philippines, Turkey, and Peru), while the so-called "Marxist-Leninists" today consists of the Dengist (The "Left-wing" of Fascism) regimes in China, Vietnam, and Laos, and the fake "Communist Parties" around the world that are essentially Social Democrats (the "Left-wing" of Liberalism), with the only true holdouts of Classic Marxism-Leninism being Cuba and the DPRK, both of which are clearly living on borrowed time (Cuba is vulnerable to a Liberal Uprising and the DPRK is vulnerable to a Dengist Coup). This is coming from someone who believes the Sino-Soviet split was a mistake and who fiercely supports the Pre-Gorbachev USSR (despite its obvious Revisionist tendencies, the USSR maintained a Centrally Planned Socialist economy until Perestroika and was a crucial opponent of U$ Imperialism until Gorbachev), with the caveat that none of this truly matters any more as the USSR collapsed in 1991 and is sadly never coming back (despite the delusions of Dengists who believe that the Capitalist, Imperialist, and Fascist State of Dengist China is the new USSR, LOL), thus the reason I am a Marxist-Leninist-Maoist.
>>

 No.388633

How do Maoist justify their class collaborationism and then turn around and advocate for mere superstructural solutions (cultural revolution) to such a regressive "socialist" economic base? Of course Deng and his ilk emerged dominant to such conditions.
Are there different takes on this within Maoism just like there are different takes on People's War?
Full transparency: I prefer anti-revisionist ML like Hoxhaism and cybersoc as it is right now but I'm amicable / appreciative of Maoists light-years more than the Dengists that have metastasized in the western left, and on this site, the last few years. I for example think that Hoxha has a better take on being more solidly proletarian than Mao were in organizing the vanguard party to victory.
>>

 No.388781

>>388278
50 years and the Filipinos and Indians haven't joined lmfao, even after the huge farmer's strikes or Duterte
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 No.388894

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>>369405
>and Gonzalo.
>hiding thread.
>saging thread.
>ignoring thread.
+1 post to sink this shit thread to the bottom.
>>

 No.389036

sage
>>

 No.389412

Opportunist worms are destroying the communist movement for the bourgeoisie's concessions and I will not stand for it.
Keep the dialogue going.
>>

 No.389697

>>389412
cope
sage
>>

 No.389805

And up to the top again.
>>

 No.389876

sage
>>

 No.390888

up again
>>

 No.390896

Fuck Maoism.

It operates like and has the class character of Trotskyism and those who proclaim themselves as maoist expect everyone else to think they're the most revolutionary.

It should've ended with Gonzalo. Maoism as a movement had its (multiple) chances to redeem itself, but even the movements they claim to be "maoist", the black panthers for example, have died off. It needs to fucking die.

Sage this fucking thread.
>>

 No.390903

>>389412
Oh you mean the self-sabotage done by petty bourgeois academes like Sison and Gonzalo?

The failure is within your line. Cope.
>>

 No.390923

This thread really showcases the kind of sperg that attacks maoism at every opportunity on this site. It's hillarious how little self awareness they have.
>>

 No.390928

>>390923
Can't help it when all you see is failure within the movement and you have faggots who still uphold it.
>>

 No.390960

>>390923
100% it’s all crypto libs who can’t even get basic dates right
>>

 No.390970

>>390896
>ooooh it’s like Trotskyism
What according to some retarded Reddit copypasta. Reddit cope. Go home
>>

 No.390980

>>

 No.390985

>>390970
I mean, I know which copypasta you're referring to and they did have some devastating points against Maoism. Origin, not content matters.
>>

 No.390986


>>390985
Content > Origin I meant, lol.
>>

 No.391157

>>390986
Hey, Palestanon back after some reading. I read both the lengthy struggle session critique of Sison, and the reply to that critique on Sison's blog. Now, to be quite frank, I am torn on the Gonzalo-Sison split. On the one hand, I agree with the pro-PCP argument that some of Sison's arguments are simplistic, such as that many countries have very restrictive gun laws and that keeping intentions secret is opportunistic. On the other hand, though, I can empathize with the core of Sison's argument. In cases where there is little potential for PPW, I can see where it would make sense to build up more institutional strength. I think this is most apparent when we look at some of the first-world MLM groups, who preach about people's war and go out acting revolutionary, only to see no broader growth or popular appeal beyond larping in the woods and playing revolutionary. I can see where it's important to build up your resources and popular base before taking such a drastic revolutionary step. So, if I were to take a side, although I do have quibbles with some aspects of Sison's argument, I think I have to side with him in that it may be better, depending on circumstances, to build power bases rather than immediately plunging into PPW. Of course, I'm sure that many pro-PCP MLMs will agree with at least this sentiment, and just simply consider the power-building as just the preliminary stage of the PPW. Perhaps, from that pov, a lot of this split is just a matter of theoretical misunderstanding and historical rivalry rather than some irresolvable theoretical contradiction. Still, let's put all that aside for now.

After considering the thread and what I've read, there is something I would like to discuss in good faith, as I think it is a major problem within Maoism that should be resolved. The sheer number of comparisons. just within this thread, between Maoism and Trotskyism/anarchism should be firmly resolved. There have been various left-oppositions that have formed against the Soviet Union since its founding: firstly from the left communists who rejected Lenin's leadership for his refusal to do things like instantly abolish commodity production and abstain from aiding "reactionary" anti-imperial struggles, then from the Trotskyists who rejected Stalin's leadership for his pragmatic refusal to embrace pipedreams of immediate global revolution when the Soviet Union was in such dire straits, and finally the Maoists who rejected Khrushchev's leadership for his revisionist policies of reaching detente with the West, liberalizing the Union, and other such reforms. Now, I won't try to draw a false equivalency between Maoism and the ultra-leftists of Trotskism and Left-communism. Obviously, Maoism (and broader anti-revisionism) actually saw successful revolutions in China, Albania, and Nepal, not to mention various major struggles still being waged. These accomplishments are far greater than anything Trotskyism and Left-communism could ever hope to accomplish, and this at least shows that Maoism isn't purely armchair. That being said, this still leaves a fundamental question to be considered. In each of these schisms, the opposition revolts against what it perceives as a rightward, opportunistic betrayal within the Soviet Union that abandons the true revolution. However, at least in the case of Lenin and Stalin, we know there was no evil clique of plotting revisionists salivating at the chance to destroy the revolution; these revisions were simply necessary changes for the sake of preserving the state against constant capitalist aggression. In the case of Maoism and its case against Khrushchev, I'd like to hear an answer to these two questions:
1. Was Khrushchev unique in being a closet reactionary plotter (as previous left oppositions had claimed of Lenin and Stalin), or was there genuinely a material basis for the USSR's 1956 shift in policy, as there had been a material basis for the policies of both Lenin and Stalin?
2. If the answer to the previous question is indeed that Khrushchev was indeed acting upon broader material forces rather than some personal malignancy, what are we to do to prevent such a thing from happening again? And I must be firm on this, don't just say things like "We will need an independent left made of TRUE revolutionaries who won't betray it this time", that's what leftcoms and Trots do and it has never, ever worked. I'd like to hear a real, scientific, material strategy for resolving the material basis of revision that doesn't rely on utopian conceptions of "Oh we'll just make our parties have the right theory and right revolutionary spirit, that way it won't happen again". Do we have to concentrate our revolution in regions that won't be culpable to social imperialism? Do we have to reconsider efforts at popular fronts and not allow liberal-communist alliances to manifest? I'd like to hear some material solution to this material cause of revisionism.
>>

 No.391791

File: 1626860411503.gif ( 450.41 KB , 220x220 , cope.gif )

>>391157
>china
>Marx was a marxist
>Lenin was a leninist
>Mao was a maoist
>>

 No.392148

N E P A L
>>

 No.392876

(Crosspost)

maopill me about gonzalo, why he started attacking peasants and the people he should be protecting? that only caused poor people to hate him.

AFAIK even Pedro Castillo (Pencilman) was a rondero, a rondero was a type of self-defense force against shining path.
>>

 No.392919

>>392876
Gonzalo sucks and is inexcusable. Critical support for Sision.
>>

 No.393837

>>392876
petit bourg college philosophy professor, the entire central committee were white PMCs or mestizos, spurring a petit-bourgeois movement
>>

 No.399863

>>390928
Read the shit you're posting. That's just the exact same shit right wingers constantly parrot when talking about communism in general but projected against maoism alone. Every "argument" against maoism in this thread is pretty much nothing but that. It's embarrassing.
>>

 No.400384

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>>399863
Woah, it's almost like changing the subject that you're talking about changes the meaning of what you're saying.
>>

 No.400389

Reminder that a good tendency does more than amassing 6000 soldiers in 50 years in a country of 110 million people.
MLM simply has no mass support as of now.
It just cannot work.
>>

 No.400409

For all the dunking done on MLM (rightfully so, the results leave a lot to be desired, speaking as an anti-revisionist) it's done precisely because we WANT success. The 3rd world seems to be the best candidate for revolution, and for this one tendency to have achieved essentially nothing (except Nepal, where they had anti-monarchist/republican/pro-democratic movements backing and the conditions were the closest to 20s-50s China as they could be) is disappointing, methods should be switched up, stop fetishizing failure.
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 No.400417

File: 1627211085616.pdf ( 197.04 KB , 197x300 , The_Muck_of_the_Past_Revol….pdf )

Don't really know about Maoism that much (apart from the American style stuff which seems highly tinged with racial guilt politics)

But I've been reading Badiou this week and someone told me he was a maoist and then coincidentally was reading this pdf which is an anthropology of the Indian Maoists. Looks good, and I can see the appeal of Maoism as a living revolution of sorts.
>>

 No.401073

This thread in a nutshell:
>maoism is bad!!! why? because… it just is!!!
>maoism is a failure because its ongoing revolutions aren't as successfull as these long dead revolutions from last century!!!
>maoists are white!!! maoists are petit bourgeois!!! maoists are americans!!! maoists are this and that!!!
Do you not have any actual criticism of maoist theory or organization?
>>

 No.401259

>>401073
can't seem to get past the revolutionary stage
>>

 No.401270

>>

 No.401288

>>401270
thought so
>>401259
do you think theory and organization tactics the only factors that decide if a revolution in practice is successful or not?
>>

 No.401310

>>401259
>China
>>

 No.401344

>>401288
No
>>401310
>Marx was a marxist
>Lenin was a leninist
>Mao was a maoist
>>

 No.401347

File: 1627239545531.png ( 683.06 KB , 1080x1080 , 8g8o733j9ak61.png )

>>401344
Marx was a Stalinist
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 No.401361

>>401344
then how is merely stating they haven't gone past the revolutionary stage a valid criticism of maoist theory and organization?
>>

 No.402841

>>401361
Their real life actions are defined by their theory, and like that of anarchists, it amounts to very little throughout history (at least anarchists have Catalonia). If you think that crying about "b-b-but the reactionary state fought us" that's a retarded excuse because that will always happen, it is a given in any situation, so the fault lies squarely on the revolutionaries, who through their adhering to their shitty adventurist theory, end up alienating the population or just remain irrelevant for several decades.
>>

 No.402863

What is the differences in ideology between Mao-Zedong-Thought (What the CPC believes) Maoism (what gonzalo and others made up) and Maoist third worldism?
>>

 No.402875

>>402863
one justifies consoomerism, the other boiling babied and the other one staying all day in your parents basement
>>

 No.402898

>>402863
>Mao-Zedong-Thought (What the CPC believes)
That the CPC presently follows Socialism With Chinese Characteristics (SWCC), which replaced MZT in the late 70s. Claims otherwise are just virtue signaling, there was a real shift away from MZT policies in the late 70s to adopt Dengs new SWCC that was subsequently upheld by leaders all the way to today with Xi, who just added "For a New Era" at the end of it. By no means have we seen a return to the substance of MZT in the CPC since the death of Mao.
>>

 No.403250

>>402841
>why is maoism bad?
<because their revolution isn't succeeding
>why isn't their revolution succeeding?
<because maoism is bad
can't you explain your point further than that? what exactly are the aspects of the maoist theory and organization you think are stopping it from succeeding?
>so the fault lies squarely on the revolutionaries, who end up alienating the population or just remain irrelevant for several decades.
this applies to pretty much every modern socialist revolutionary org that doesn't already hold some sort pf political power

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