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File: 1624653309764.jpg ( 105.61 KB , 536x376 , the long wait.jpg )

 No.338208[Last 50 Posts]

FIRST AS A TRAGEDY, SECOND AS A FARCE EDITION
PERU ELECTIONS 10.0
Pencil man is victorious and travelling around the country while Keiko and her lawyers try any card to subvert the election.
Prev. threads:
>>>/leftypol_archive/14633 #1
>>>/leftypol_archive/15250 #2
>>>/leftypol_archive/15858 #3
>>>/leftypol_archive/16499 #4
>>>/leftypol_archive/17177 #5
>>>/leftypol_archive/17849 #6
>>305248 #7
>>307155 #8
>>310902 #9
>>

 No.338069

File: 1624649917141.jpg ( 49.74 KB , 526x260 , Untitled.jpg )

PERU ELECTIONS GENERAL (last thread is full)

SHIT IS COLLAPSING EDITION
EVERY DAY IS CRAZIER THAN THE LAST

The old fashoids have been behind the coup all along
>>

 No.338071

>>

 No.338076

File: 1624650012804.jpg ( 65.23 KB , 1280x720 , 1549909483320.jpg )

>Twitter screencap OP
>>

 No.338079

>>338076
Who cares faggot
>>

 No.338087

>>338069
wait when did this happen
>>

 No.338089

File: 1624650285234.jpg ( 26.8 KB , 500x607 , 1344420857998.jpg )

>>338069
There was a coup attempt?
>>

 No.338091

File: 1624650314262.jpeg ( 35.12 KB , 480x374 , 8D18261F-9B62-495F-941D-8….jpeg )

He was better than anything Glowzalo or Sendero BRILLOSO has ever done
>>

 No.338092

>>338091
What the fuck is wrong with you
>>

 No.338093

Unsurprising.
Any news articles on this?
I tried to look it up, but could only find stuff about looming fears of a coup.
>>

 No.338094

UPDATES:
PERU LIBRE (pencil party) AND COMMUNITIES FROM ALL OVER THE RURAL PART OF THE COUNTRY HAVE ANNOUNCED A GENERAL STRIKE IF CASTILLO IS NOT DECLARED PRESIDENT SOON

FUJITURDS ATTACKED PENCIL SYMPATHIZERS YESTERDAY WITH STICKS AND SHIT

THE JNE IS COMPROMISED BY MONTESINOS, ONE OF THEM RESIGNED, HIS REPLACEMENT IS NOWHERE TO BE SEEN, SUPPOSEDLY HAS COVID OR SOMETHING. THE JNE CAN'T DECLARE CASTILLO PRESIDENT WITHOUT THE MISSING MEMBER AND THEY STILL HAVE TO PROCESS LIKE 200 ANULLMENT REQUESTS FROM KEIKO

PEOPLE ARE MAD, FUJITURDS ARE BECOMING MORE AND MORE VIOLENT. THEY ALL CALL FOR NEW ELECTIONS

RONDEROS IMPLIED THEY'LL BLOCK/SIEGE THE CAPITAL IF SHIT GOES SOUTH
>>

 No.338096

338092
>Saglow post
>>

 No.338098

>>338091
Maoists b like ITS ONLY VALID WHEN WE TEAM UP WITH THE CIA!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>

 No.338102

>>338094
Civil War soon? Where does the military and police stand?
>>

 No.338117

>>338092
callate gringo
>>

 No.338118

>>338102
Police I don't know. The navy still bows to montesinos/fujimori it seems.
A couple of days a bunch of navy veterans sent a letter asking the military to not accept castillo as president because he committed fraud
>>

 No.338126

>>338069
A thousand photos could have been better than a twatter screencap.
Shame on you anon
And shame on me for not preventing this from happening
>>

 No.338128

>>338091
OMEGABASADO
>>

 No.338134

>>338126
I don't give a shit
>>

 No.338136

>>338094
>Castillo had already cucked out and everyone prospected a weak succdem presidency
>It comes out that fascists will not accept even that
<Shit keeps getting more and more radical

Is this dialectics in motion?
>>

 No.338137

>>338091
Basad and socialist-oriented pilled
>>

 No.338138

>>338091
Basatissimo
>>

 No.338142

File: 1624651699677.png ( 141.56 KB , 2688x2688 , 1344177706902.png )

>>338136
What would happen if he withdrew?
>>

 No.338145

>>338142
I don't really know
>>

 No.338152

>>338136
Life is pain anon
That is why I haven't posted for a while.

Some legal moves here and there, and yesterday Popy Olivera (the man who called for the press release of the Vladivideos) yesterday did a press conference on facebook showing Montesinos calls
https://larepublica.pe/elecciones/2021/06/25/elecciones-2021-vladimiro-montesinos-apoyo-a-keiko-fujimori-en-segunda-vuelta-pltc/?ref=lre
Shady shit, people wanting to give 1 million dollars to each member of the JNE to extend the period of vote nullification. That did not pan out but two days ago one of the members of that table "declined"/renounced putting more chaos on the menu. Of course he was a friend of corrupt Hinostroza, and now the one that replaces him is in that same line.
>>338142
How he could? He has already won on the field, and the right (since it is not only the fujis) are triying to kick the table the more subtle way possible. It is tiring.
>>

 No.338209

First for Pedro visiting the areas affected by the earthquake
>>

 No.338211

>>338071
>>338069

Kinda sounds like he is just translating and amplifying random twitter conspiracies to generate clicks.

https://www.telesurtv.net/tags/peru/
https://www.wsws.org/en/topics/country/peru
https://www.mintpressnews.com/?s=peru
>>

 No.338212

>>338209
What earthquake?
>>

 No.338216

>>338212
In english there is no difference between what could be considered a sismo (6.0) and a terremoto (+7.0), there was one near Lima in Mala, where one child died by an epilepsy crisis
https://youtu.be/f1Kfh1vDcYE
https://youtu.be/SaKAF6NHKo0
>>

 No.338217

>>338211
I'm peruvian, it's not a conspiracy it all happened yesterday
>>

 No.338224

>>338217
Meh, It is not like an "ARMED COUP OH MY GOD" more like "We try to bought the electoral body, we succeded and later they backdown by pressure"
In the audio Montesinos talks about how the navy is not ready for a coup? probably:
>And the navy?
>M: No they can't do
The audios stired the place, that is true.

Somewhere I have read that they could be triying what happened in 1962, where the APRA won but the army couped him
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golpe_de_Estado_en_Per%C3%BA_de_1962
Kek, there is no english translation.
>>338211
I will beat you with my shoe for using weird sex website as a source.
>>

 No.338232

>>338224
>meh
go back
>>

 No.338233

>>338232
To where? I have been here since 2016
>>

 No.338238

File: 1624654517683.png ( 39.61 KB , 171x180 , 1516080750738.png )

>>338233
NO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND IF YOU USE WORDS I DON'T LIKE YOU'RE FROM WEBSITE I DON'T LIKE
RRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Ignore him.
>>

 No.338243

>>338238
Imagine being this fragile and triggered over a word. This is why you need to go back
>>

 No.338256

File: 1624654915452.jpg ( 120.81 KB , 1440x1440 , -_-.jpg )

>>338208
Shinningpaths fags are active again
>Bazooka found in Lima suring elections right now
https://elcomercio.pe/lima/carabayllo-desconocidos-abandonan-bazuca-de-uso-militar-mientras-eran-perseguidos-por-la-policia-udex-nndc-noticia/
>18 000 Tnt
https://elcomercio.pe/lima/ventanilla-policia-nacional-hallo-mas-de-18-mil-cartuchos-de-dinamita-en-dos-viviendas-udex-nndc-noticia/
both sides of this conflict are movilizing their pawns, embrace Jaime Olivera´s reject Castillo-Keiko warmongering

CIVIL WAR INCOMINGI REPEAT CIVIL WAR INCOMING
>>

 No.338268

>>338256
Peak trolling
Don't raise the hopes of the gonzaloites, probably those are just criminal bands, illegal miners in the dynamite one (seized by the police for not being stored properly) and as I said, criminals in the second
>>

 No.338283

File: 1624655619086.jpg ( 160.06 KB , 1080x720 , vladigame-04-04.jpg )

>>338268
https://gestion.pe/peru/manifestantes-en-peru-queman-dos-vehiculos-de-minera-china-mmg-noticia/

https://www.expreso.com.pe/judicial/queman-vivos-a-perros-en-ataque-a-minera/

a group of at least 800 "comuneros" burns dogs alive and destroys 3 million dollars on mining devices and machinery, days later thousands of tons of TNT and a anti-Helicopte bazooka where found in lima
>also
Jaime Olivera found that BOTH keiko and castillo comitted fraud
<who´s Jaime Olivera
the guy who exposed Montesinos and pretty much ended the fujimorist regime
>>

 No.338293

>>338283
Lmao, we have the visitor.
If you want to put that a takeover of a mining camp is "THE RESURGENCE OF SENDERO" I don't know where have you lived the past 20 years.
Or maybe you just fall flat on Expreso tier propaganda where Abimael and Soros controll Peru.
Popy's opinions are from him, and him only, he has been antileft since his youth (remember he was on the PPC) so no surprise that he wants to bring down everyone with him, just in a different face than Keiko, but with the same goal in the end.


I just realize you linked to Expreso, what is next? La razon?
>>

 No.338309

>>338293
<he has been antileft since his youth
at this point is not about left or right is about no falling into another Narco-Dictatorship no matter th political side
>>

 No.338317

>>338309
>The best way you have to denigrate Castillo is to call his goverment "a narcostate"
Keep coping buddy
>>

 No.338332

>>338309
Neoliberal shill. Die.
>>

 No.338336

>>338309
>muh narco
Go back to Florida buddy.
>>

 No.338425

>>338309
Fuck off gusano
>>

 No.338433

File: 1624660201793.png ( 3.96 KB , 205x246 , download (1).png )

I hope Pedro is just pretending to cuck out and will declare the peoples republic of Peru when he is sworn in right bros???
>>

 No.338448

>>338069
>Empanada
>>

 No.338458

>>338117
You realise the reason the shining path needed to be so militant was because this socdem reformer got couped. That is literally why you have a militant communist party
>>

 No.338460

>>338309
Except the Narco states are run by neolibs you fed
>>

 No.338463

>>338118
Oh yeah, here the navy has always been a social club for rich peruvians and their spoiled failsons.

Very nice for networking your way into a nice job tho, but only if you're white passing.
>>

 No.338468

>>338309
>narcodictatorship
There is no such thing a left wing narco dictatorship and never had been
>>

 No.338522

>>338468
>There is no such thing a left wing narco dictatorship and never had been
>Venezuela
>Nicaragua
>Cuba
>Allendeist chile

man there is a galaxy of diference between western comunists os leftists than eastern comunisist or leftists, while in china Mao rised his revolution due collective labour in Venezuela Maduro runs "El Cartel de los soles", latin american comunists become very corrupt the moment(thanks to the USA partially) they get those juicy contacts to sell drugs o when the revolution fails and the guerrilla´s last resort is to process Coca leaves and sell them to Mexico and then in the US
>>

 No.338534

>>338522
Glow more buddy, the sun is the limit
>>

 No.338537

>>338522
Communist Guerrilas have sold drugs. At no point was Nicaragua or Venezuela a narcodictatorship.

The contras did the cocaine dealing and were CIA backed. The majority of the cocaine trade and drug trade in general is CIA backed. Give sources for any of these claims you have made
>>

 No.338544

>>338522
The glow in this is off the fucking charts.
>>

 No.338550

>>338544
No, thats a reality in LatAm it doesent seem to happen in china or russia i am not saying that leftists are drug dealers, i am saying that Latin American leftists and rightists are or have connetions with drugdealers thats a fact
>>

 No.338552

>>338458
sageposter sometimes you are dangerously based. not always, but often enough. keep it up brother
>>

 No.338558

Why the fuck are people talking about a coup attempt happening? Stop spreading disinformation and stop fear mongering ffs. If the coup happens then Castillo will have to find a way to deal with it but as of now nothing has gone down yet.
>>

 No.338565

>>338550
Come on buddy, if you are in that train already leave the brakes off. Just say that Russia sells I don't know… ah! that they pay the muhayiddin to kill gringo soldiers to protect the opium and that Xi himselfs sells the ketamine to bring America down.
>>

 No.338586

File: 1624663105450-0.jpg ( 128.85 KB , 1200x630 , internacionales-fidel-cast….jpg )

File: 1624663105450-1.jpg ( 7.36 KB , 300x168 , aer.jpg )

>>338558
Becouse audios from montesinos, the leader of the peruvian GESTAPO, revealed that he was planning a cou´p with the most powerful branch of the military AKA the navy
>>338565
oh shit i thought it was an endemic problem becouse Montesinos aka the founder and leader of many ractionary paramilitary and inteligence groups sold weapons to FARC in exchange of cocaine
>>

 No.338601

>>338586
>Navy
>The most powerful branch
Come on.
This emanates of peak centrism.
>>

 No.338645

>>338565
>ywn buy k from xi himself
>>

 No.339929

>>338256
You gotta hand to them, they are persistent as fuck.
Any new development, peruanons? I believe that whatever happens there will be even worse here (Brazil) next year.
>>

 No.339936

File: 1624717761822.png ( 128.47 KB , 3039x1941 , peru election world map.png )

reposting from previous thread
>>

 No.339937

>>

 No.339943

>>338550
It's funny you come here spouting the same propaganda from the CIA/U.S. about drugs. Now tell me, the DoJ wanted on Maduro is surely legit lmao.
>>

 No.340007

>>338463
Sorry poor's we have all the boat's!
>>

 No.340027

>Pedro's economics guy already meeting with the world bank and clapping about a new loan
Jfl, unbased and cringe. Yeah I think pedromania is over bros
>>

 No.340030

>>

 No.340034

>>338224
>I will beat you with my shoe for using weird sex website as a source.

ur mum is gay
>>

 No.340053

File: 1624722710187-0.png ( 812.53 KB , 2888x1588 , american maoism.png )

File: 1624722710187-1.mp4 ( 8.24 MB , 640x360 , party in the CIA.mp4 )

>American federal agencies have a history of using "Maoist" front groups, most notably the "Ad Hoc Committee for a Marxist-Leninist Party
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/167878
>Gonzaloite "Marxism-Leninism-Maoism" is a weirdly widespread phenomenon in the United States for "some reason"
>Left-wing candidate is going to win a democratic election in a Latin American country
<ELECTIONS NO
<REVOLUTION YES
<DOWN WITH SOCIAL FASCIST CASTILLO
<PRAISE GONZALO
>>

 No.340054

File: 1624722728635.jpg ( 42.42 KB , 563x742 , 1604663539606.jpg )

>>338309
>orange text

>>338256
I will not fall for ur lies flagman
>>

 No.340057

>>340053
Castillo has cucked out already tho
>>

 No.340064

>>340053
The CIA wants more splits and division. What even is your point here?
>>

 No.340071

File: 1624723057962.png ( 232.68 KB , 800x764 , cia has logged on.png )

>>340057
Literally every leftist or center-left leader has cucked out until it's already too late. Lula da Silva and PT were corrupt socdem hacks until, whoops, their opponents were fascists.
>>340064
My point is that "Maoism" is the glowiest ideology.
>>

 No.340075

>>

 No.340093

>>340027
>My point is that "Maoism" is the glowiest ideology.
based
>>

 No.340103

>>340057
Staying in the Marxist party is not chucking out.
>>

 No.340105

>>340103
It's always the faggots who are Uhahhahauaha…THESE GUYS ARE CIA who are the cia uyghurs. They just want to create division because divide and conquer tactics work.
I'm not falling for the narcissism of small differences meme. I get "ruthless criticism of everything" but it's pretty fucking clear to me that there has been a deluge of posters here who does nothing but try to squash out any hope of any sort of progress in the left.
>>

 No.340107

>>340103
>Staying in the Marxist party is not chucking out.
Fucking corrector
<Staying in the Marxist party is not cucking out.
>>

 No.340119

>>340105
>I get "ruthless criticism of everything" but it's pretty fucking clear to me that there has been a deluge of posters here who does nothing but try to squash out any hope of any sort of progress in the left.
Well, any time I see these idiots I either report them or smash their arguments, they most likely are rightoids, poltards or live in places close to that line of argument because they strawman their arguments the same way.
>>

 No.340121

>>340105
lmao I can't get tired of being right, see: >>340115
>>

 No.340134

>>340105
Pedro before:
We will nationalize all key industries
Pedro now:
We won't nationalize anything, we will work and help the private industry

Pedro before:
Anti imperialist
Pedro now:
Has world bank guy as his main economics advisor

Pedro before:
We will end private pension funds companies
Pedro now:
We won't do any of that lol

Pedro now:
Cerron's (peru libre founder) best buddy
Pedro now:
"You won't see Cerron even as a doorman in my government"

Pedro before:
Openly criticized opportunist socdem parties
Pedro now:
Hugs the socdem leader and might even put her as prime minister

Pedro before:
We will close down the Constitutional Tribunal and other corrupt government institutions
Pedro now
We will REINFORCE the constitutional tribunal and other corrupt government institutions

I get it that he needed to soften his speech to calm people down but c'mon he has backpedalled on nearly everything
>>

 No.340135

>>340119
I think they are just /pol/ converts. /pol/ is pretty much always filled with people who are trying to piss them off. The /pol/ convert isn't just someone who is nazbol (hell I doubt most nazbols are even /pol/ converts) but rather people who just go out of their way to piss people off.
>>

 No.340150

>>340053
The cpusa at one point was run entirely by feds.

Are you also saying the BPP were feds for having informants in their ranks? Retardo.

The feds were in these Maoist parties because literally every party of these periods that isn’t trots were Maoist because there was basically no large Stalinist party in the US.

Maybe think before you smear in this sectarian manner

>omg it’s so weird there is so many Gonzaloists in America

No it isn’t. There is HUGE amounts of migration from Latin America to North America, and the people’s war in Peru, though technically still going, reached its peak in the late 80s/early 90s I.e not that long ago, in terms of a militant revolutionary movement it is the one in greatest proximity to the US both temporally and spacially. In fact it really isn’t weird at all.

These things only seem strange if you are a kid who lacks knowledge of the socialist movement
>>

 No.340154

>>340071
>literally every socdem has cucked out
>fuck Maoists though
The ENTIRE point of MLM is that you don’t get cucked out. What is the secret third option you are after?
>>

 No.340155

>>340134
The material conditions will push him to the left. He hasn't abandoned his own Marxist party, and that's a huge relevance to a country where the country was shattered by SP. An SP that even North Korea sold weapons for the government to attack them.
So keep larping as a revolutionary, when you probably have a capitalist-imperialist government.
>>

 No.340164

>>339936
Stats?
Source your shit, faggot.
>>

 No.340165

>>340150
It's not sectarian to assume that Maoist parties were used constantly to attack MLS or ML parties.
That was seen in Cambodia and Afganistan, and it is a CIA/SoS policy to infiltrate communist parties and put them in fight.
>>

 No.340166

>>340155
Are you aware Pedro joined Peru Libre like 6 months before the elections?
>>

 No.340170

>>340166
So what? He was pushed to left out and he didn't.
>>

 No.340179

Looks like we got the visit from someone that is criticizing the march of Peru Libre from the accords done witht the socdems and liberal left.
Dude, part of being in a united front with them is conceding some points and staying strong with others.
I bet you have read the Plan Bicentenario and you are aware that to do something (even a constitutional assembly, part of the main road of the new goverment) is to at least mantain an economy that is not in a tailspin or a country that is diying from lack of oxygen and vaccines.
So chill out, because, unnecessary factionalism just plays into the rights favour
>>

 No.340215

>>340034
It is not a good source, compare it with Telesur or even the fucking Guardian (both free, more informative and less trot), on this month 3 news, while Telesur in spanish has 11 political news (in the last two weeks), and the guardian has 10 political news.
Or maybe you are the one that shills it here, who knows.
>>

 No.340222

>>340165
The Khmer Rouge wasn’t a Maoist party, and the Maoists in afghansitan were Chinese backed, not CIA backed, although given China at the time was CIA backed.

In both of these there is also the sino Soviet spilt to consider.
>>

 No.340239

>>340165
Also in the context of Peru it’s completely ridiculous, given 1) there is zero proof shown of the shining path glowing, absolute zero and 2) there is huge amounts of commonly known proof that Fujimori and the preceding right wing military dictators were all CIA backed, going back a very long time. In this context, the shining path were literally the militant anti glow party.

But sure, you don’t like Maoists on leftypol so go off
>>

 No.340569

>>340222
>The Khmer Rouge wasn’t a Maoist partly
Initially was funded by a Maoist: Sinahouk, and was very supported by Mao, against the ML party there who had more support.
>>340222
> afghansitan were Chinese backed
Very aggressive against the MLS ruling party.
>>340239
>given 1) there is zero proof shown of the shining path glowing, absolute zero and 2) there is huge amounts of commonly known proof that Fujimori and the preceding right wing military dictators were all CIA backed, going back a very long time
Not one single international communist party gave SP support and even countries like North Korea sold weapons to Peru's government in 1988 to help them contain those nuts. They bombed the USSR embassy in Peru, and they lost even support from China, of course, the oligarchy would hate them, but even others revolutionaries around the world would hate them.

All of that infight comes from the U.S. SoS where they constantly used ideology differences to boost aggression between revolutionaries, but SP is pure garbage.
>>

 No.340635

>>340134
>calm people down
How's that going, btw?
>>

 No.340663

>>340569
Being funded by mao doesn’t make you Maoist. Later Maoist foreign policy was not good, and dengist/ gang of 4 foreign policy was even worse. Doesn’t make it glowie. USSR foreign policy was also basically dog shit for most of the Cold War.
>Afghanistan
Again, this is in the context of the sino Soviet split, was a dengist move, and also the Maoist factions in afghansitan were brutally suppressed. The afghan war was a giant mess by all parties. It doesn’t make Maoism inherently glowie.

>not one single international communist party gave SP support

Probably a lie. They were supported by FARC as late as the 2000s

>north Korea sold weapons to the genocidal fujimori govt

This is just more shit communist foreign policy

>they bombed the USSR embassy

In the late 80s. The USSR was literally being sold off by this point, it was by no means socialist or communist. Ditto China. China was selling weapons to the contras and supporting the CIA in many places (including afghansitan by your own post!) by this time, Angola is another example, the phillipines is another example . Wtf man?

The last part of your post doesn’t even make any sense.
>>

 No.340667

And too be clear, doing bombings and suchlike as they did IS a mistake. But it doesn’t make them glowies just like the USSR failing to back the Sandinistas was a mistake and doesn’t make them glowies
>>

 No.340763

Also, difference between the taliban and somebody like Assad for example is that the baath party does have a quasi socialist and certainly an anti colonial heritage. The taliban have no such heritage and were in fact explicitly anti socialist.
>>

 No.340916

>>340663
You got some historical dates and facts wrong (like the FARC one…the MRTA was the one that even send members to collaborate with them in the America Batallion) they were TRULY internationally isolated (just some minuscule groups of maoists in the world supported them).
But as always, is good to remind everyone that one shouldn't swallow goverment propaganda/history just like that, one has to do reseatch and search for the shady stuff that ends up under the rug.

Also, Maoism has been cucking since it's "inception" in the 70s/80s. Afewerki, the BPP. the ethiopians (well they were hoxhaists), Pachandra, the retards on the US and SP. Not like I want to being mean but in a ship withouth an engine in the middle of a storm they are the ones that want to just go in a plastic raft and YOLO it.
>>

 No.340959

>>340916
Which dates are wrong?

And they did have allies, they were part of the revolutionary internationalist movement

>Maoists have also been cucked

>gives two examples of hoxhaists
???
>>

 No.340967

>>340949
I wasn't refering to you, but Sage. There wasn't a relation between FARC and SP. But between MRTA and M-19, my mistake too.
>>

 No.340973

>>340959
The NK didn't sell weapons to the Fujimori regime, but to the APRA goverment.
>>

 No.340974

>>340959
Also the RIM is a joke, and this is not a comedy stand up night
>>

 No.340980

>>340154
I'm making fun of Mao glowies. They're like trots, but considerably shadier.
>>

 No.340983

>>340663
>Being funded by mao doesn’t make you Maoist
Can you read the line of thought of the Khmer Rouge in their first years? Later on, Pol Pot still assumed a Maoist line of thought, he even declarer a national mourn for his death in 1976. Comon, dude, the Maoists tendency to be extremely radical is not a mere assumption, and they have toyed with CIA interests in the past.
>>340663

>Probably a lie. They were supported by FARC as late as the 2000s

Check yourself, I already reviewed dozens of newspaper libraries and I couldn't find support for them from the main communist movements.
>>340663

>was a dengist move

lol, no. This was a ball rolling down from a cliff that Deng wasn't able to stop Remember that Mao only died two years before the Afghan conflict started. How can Deng stop that at once if he followed the main line of Maoism? He, later on, changed some policies, but you can't expect to do a radical shift in two years in such a political scenario.
>>340663
>This is just more shit communist foreign policy
I can guarantee you that China and the USSR would do much much more for DPK than for some dog killers.
>>340663
>The USSR was literally being sold off by this point
They were who to decide whether or not the USSR was an ally by the time? Good, let's attack them just to prove they are more revolutionary? that's nuts to bomb them.
>>340663
>China was selling weapons to the contras and supporting the CIA in many places (including afghansitan by your own post!)
China never sold weapons, however, they allowed movements of weapons through their borders to Afghanistan, then again, that was Maoism.
>>

 No.341012

>>340150
>The cpusa at one point was run entirely by feds.
This is completely untrue. There were an unusually large number of informants in the CPUSA compared to its size due to a drop in membership after the Red Scare.

>Are you also saying the BPP were feds for having informants in their ranks?

The BPP weren't a bunch of wreckers.

>The feds were in these Maoist parties because literally every party of these periods that isn’t trots were Maoist because there was basically no large Stalinist party in the US.

The feds like Maoism because it a beautiful marriage, in their eyes, of sectarianism, encouragement of illegal and violent activities and groups having obscure and informal origins (so a "Maoist cadre" no one has ever heard of before showing up out of the blue doesn't really turn heads)

>No it isn’t. There is HUGE amounts of migration from Latin America to North America

At least 80% of American Gonzaloites are white. Few to none of them are Latino and basically none of them are Peruvian.

>These things only seem strange if you are a kid who lacks knowledge of the socialist movement

It's the other way around. It's HIGHLY suspicious unless you know little about the socialist movement and how strange it is for the ideology of an obscure Peruvian rebel group to be as popular as it is in the United States.
>>

 No.341033

>>340973
So a feckless liberal who plunged the country into poverty. So what?
>>340974
The Turkish Branch is currently fighting a people’s war against the fascist Turkish state and the imperial FSA

>>340980
You realise you think Maoist organisations have been infiltrated a lot because literally no other type of communist organisation has existed for like 30 years

>>340983
Most communists mourn the death of most other communists, it doesn’t make pol pot a Maoist, particular not. Maoist in the vane of the shining path.


>check yourself

You can’t of checked very hard it took me five minutes to find several examples including the international they are part of. Details of which can be found above.


>Mao, Deng, Afghanistan

Mao was a senile old man and not in control of the party directly before his death and China was also of a dictatorship. How could Mao have predicted the coup that lead to the war in afghansitan 2 years after his death? Ludicrous. This was certainly post Mao policy.

>China and the USSR would do more for Peru

At the time the USSR was refusing to support the Sandinistas, something Fidel Castro criticised them for, and China was doing fuckery in places like afghansitan and the phillipines as we have discussed. No, they wouldn’t do anything for Peru. Just like the USSR didn’t do anything positive for Grenada either, another massive fuck up, small wonder is collapsed not long later.

>bombing

I’ve already said it was a mistake. Merely pointing out bombing the USSR in the 1989 is different from doing it in day 1959. Completely different.

>China never sold weapons.

China sold weapons to the contras in Nicaragua during that period. It’s a fact, read willliam Blume killing Hope final chapter on Nicaragua (there sre 3 sections I believe)

>and again blaming a dengist policy on Maoism

So you’re saying Mao reached from beyond the grave and made deng etc fund Maoist groups in afghansitan?
>>

 No.341037

File: 1624750567344.png ( 8.28 KB , 464x53 , Pol Pot.PNG )

>>341033
>Most communists mourn the death of most other communists, it doesn’t make pol pot a Maoist, particular not. Maoist in the vane of the shining path.
>>

 No.341064

>>341033
>Mao was a senile old man and not in control of the party directly before his death and China was also of a dictatorship. How could Mao have predicted the coup that lead to the war in afghansitan 2 years after his death? Ludicrous. This was certainly post Mao policy.
Then it was his family circle, which was the one actually governing, if you want to wander on such branches. Deng achieved power once he could get rid of Mao's wife and son.

>>341033
>You can’t of checked very hard it took me five minutes to find several examples including the international they are part of. Details of which can be found above.

I said main, FARC is not a main communist party, they are even a sub-branch of the communist party of Colombia. Of course, guerrillas would support guerrillas, but that doesn't make them more or less suited for an armed struggle.
>>341033


>o you’re saying Mao reached from beyond the grave and made deng etc fund Maoist groups in Afghanistan?


Not one single revolutionary president or leader shifts his predecessor's foreign policy radically. That de-base them.
Fuck, even in the U.S. wars found constant backlash from the rival party that started the war, if the governing party wanted to stop or withdraw i.ex. Afghanistan invasion, Syria invasion, Iran withdrawn support from Carter to the Shah, etc.
>>341033
>At the time the USSR was refusing to support the Sandinistas
Because the Sandisnistas didn't want their help:
>International Non-alignment – This is a result of the fundamentally Bolivarist conceptions of Sandino as distilled through the modern understanding of Fonseca. The U.S. government and large U.S. economic entities were a significant part of the problem for Nicaragua. But experiences with the traditional parties allied with the Soviet Union had also been unsatisfactory. Thus it was clear that Nicaragua must seek its own road.
>>

 No.341068

>>341033
>Calling the first APRA a liberal.
The ignorance speaks volumes.
>Now they are the international head of the people's struggles in Turkey,etc
Good for them, and hopefully they don't do the stupid shit and/or the personality cults that characterize the Avakianites and SP.
That doesn't leave that the RIM is a joke headed by the mentioned Supreme Leader Bob Avakian.
>>341037
I don't want to bring Pol Pot, but he was definetly a maoist. Also
>Most communist mourn the death of other communist
Kek, in an ideal world were people don't hate eachother from ideological differences.
>>

 No.341138

>>341033
>You realise you think Maoist organisations have been infiltrated a lot because literally no other type of communist organisation has existed for like 30 years
<We-we're the only REAL communists guys
Terrorist Trots.
>>

 No.341179

File: 1624754229914.jpg ( 312.61 KB , 1200x888 , media_E0vFRVqXoAU94Cy.jpg ….jpg )

For fuck's sake, not another sectarian slapfight. Fuck off with that shit.
>>

 No.341187

pencil man cucked out
>>

 No.341193

Castillo just BEGGED Velarde to stay at the Central Bank
Cringe!!!!
Velarde is IMF's golden boy, they swallow them loans for 'reserves' every year
>>

 No.341204

>>341193
bruh he's doing the exact opposite of what he should

reactoids simply do not care about appeasement, in fact they consider it a sign of weakness and get bolder

confrontation is the only path available against them, at this moment he should be putting people on the streets nonstop
>>

 No.341367

File: 1624761638563-0.png ( 1.93 MB , 960x1280 , chambelan.png )

File: 1624761638563-1.png ( 1.9 MB , 960x1280 , puñito.png )

>>341193
>Begged
>Cringe
Ladies and gentlemen, an example of hyperbole.
Today there was a march in support of Pedro, one for Keiko (and later Porky did his own circus).
Good side of asking Velarde to stay, this could break the dollar bubble that we have now Some rightoids are talking about economic warfare in their cesspits
Bad side, this ammount of pragmatism (to be kind) could give batteries to the center and liberals to ask for more.
>>

 No.342139

>>341179
this
trow rocks at sage
>>

 No.342978

>>341037
Che Guevara also studied Mao. Is he a Maoist? Most serious revolutionaries of the post Mao period will have studied Mao.

>>341064
>Then it was his family circle, which was the one actually governing, if you want to wander on such branches. Deng achieved power once he could get rid of Mao's wife and son.
this is cope, complete cope, the soviet afgan war continued through Dengs premiership

>I said main

FARC are on of the most prominent revolutionary organisations in latin America and have been fighting a civil war for years and are not just Geurillas yankee.

>Not one single revolutionary president or leader shifts his predecessor's foreign policy radically.

Completely untrue.

>Because the Sandisnistas didn't want their help:

1) fucking cite your source
2) Nicaragua found it unsatisfactory why? Because the USSR had a heavily unsatisfactory foriegn policy as expressed by fidel castro and others.

>>341068
Alan Garcia is known for moving the party to the centre.

>Good for them,

so, it isn't just some random international then and they do provably have allies active in the communist struggle. There is also the communist party of India (maoist) who have a large following

>That doesn't leave that the RIM is a joke headed by the mentioned Supreme Leader Bob Avakian.

because that isn't true.

>I don't want to bring Pol Pot, but he was definetly a maoist.

provide evidence.

>>341138
Name a revolutionary communist movement that isn't china, cuba or the dprk that isn't Maoist.

>>342139
I didn't start this scroll up
>>

 No.342994

>>341367
Admit he cucked out. Do it now.

Pedro before:
We will nationalize all key industries
Pedro now:
We won't nationalize anything, we will work and help the private industry

Pedro before:
Anti imperialist
Pedro now:
Has world bank guy as his main economics advisor

Pedro before:
We will end private pension funds companies
Pedro now:
We won't do any of that lol

Pedro now:
Cerron's (peru libre founder) best buddy
Pedro now:
"You won't see Cerron even as a doorman in my government"

Pedro before:
Openly criticized opportunist socdem parties
Pedro now:
Hugs the socdem leader and might even put her as prime minister

Pedro before:
We will close down the Constitutional Tribunal and other corrupt government institutions
Pedro now
We will REINFORCE the constitutional tribunal and other corrupt government institutions
>>

 No.342997

>>342994
Is there proof of any of this? You're just repeating what you said earlier, again without any external verification. Why should I trust you?
>>

 No.342998

File: 1624833417571.png ( 470.4 KB , 817x801 , g3t.png )

>>

 No.343085

>>342994
I would like to see evidence of this, but even then unless he's sworn into office he needs to keep a low profile, if he sounds too "communist" it might cause a coup. There are also an amount of Peruvian left-liberals for whom Keiko was just too unbearable so they voted for Pedro but feel very clearly "uneasy" with him identifying as a communist
>>

 No.343118

Guys we better get to Peru quickly the pencil man doesn't fuck around ,i predict abolition of the value form by the end of the year
>>

 No.343148

>>343118
>We are not Chavistas
>we are not communists
>we are not going to take anybody's property
>what was said before is totally false
>we are democratic, we respect governance and peru's institutions
>we respect the constitution
>in that context, I ask julio velarde to have a permanent position in the central reserve bank
>>

 No.343163

>>343148
Peruvian here, should've voted keiko for the acceleration effect
>>

 No.343361

>>343163
Acceleration is a meme, a good one but Colombia and/or Honduras are on that path for decades and nothing but missery is the result.
It can go badly, as Fujimori is an example too.
>>343118
If he pulls an Ollanta, then the wild ride would only get faster.
>>

 No.343444

>>338522
genuine moronic lib or pure glowie fuck ? either way kys
>>

 No.345088

>>342978
trow rocks at sage
>>

 No.345101

>>343163
I realized that "right-wingers getting their way" is vulgar accelerationism. I admit was naïve and uncreative. It's not enough for right-wingers to stomp on the people over and over, they'll just get used to it, it's important to also to humiliate and insult them while it happens, too. There can be no true despair without hope. Have them pass welfare reforms, only for them to be taken away precisely when needed, Vote in the mildest milquetoast reformer, have him overthrown by right-wing militants.
>>

 No.345133

File: 1624931737895.jpg ( 120.46 KB , 960x640 , NI5SLH2JFZPRVJCMV6OKGH3NAQ.jpg )

>Peru's Fujimori loses allies as bid to flip election result falters
reuters.com/world/americas/perus-fujimori-loses-allies-bid-flip-election-result-falters-2021-06-28/
>>

 No.345189

File: 1624934308862-1.png ( 29.46 KB , 904x110 , Fonseca About Nikita.PNG )

File: 1624934308862-2.png ( 73.9 KB , 913x312 , Fonseca and Sandinismo.PNG )

File: 1624934308862-3.png ( 57.75 KB , 911x235 , Sandinismo About 2.PNG )

>>342978
>Che Guevara also studied Mao. Is he a Maoist? Most serious revolutionaries of the post Mao period will have studied Mao.
Che was ML, no Maoist 😅
>>342978

>this is cope, complete cope, the soviet afgan war continued through Dengs premiership

Again, that was a rolling snowball that couldn't be stopped.
>>342978

>FARC are on of the most prominent revolutionary organisations in latin America and have been fighting a civil war for years and are not just Geurillas Yankee

It wasn't successful at all, with all the years unfortunately they couldn't achieve a victory with armed struggle. ML, if any, rarely support ultra-Maoists, unless they are also a guerrilla.
>>342978
>Completely untrue.
Took decades to dismantle Stalin's image from the same communists that swore to protect the USSR and you come to say untrue? C'mon.
>>342978
>1) fucking cite your source
2) Nicaragua found it unsatisfactory why? Because the USSR had a heavily unsatisfactory foriegn policy as expressed by fidel castro and others.

There, have some food for the brain: Sandinismo from the beginning wasn't seeking the USSR's support because they saw what it was becoming.
>>

 No.345190

File: 1624934347197.jpg ( 10.07 KB , 225x225 , jojo-oh-lawd.jpg )

>>345133
I am so happy about this.
>>

 No.345208

>>345189
Based Sandinistas seeing what was coming and not overdepending on it. They lost to Chamorro in 1990 but now they are in full swing, maintaining power and even putting in the constitution the right to upheld national sovereignty (against foreign agents).

Today again was slow. Rightoids screeching because one lawyer said that if there was a coup the people would rise, the plotters would fail but there woukd be a lot of blood in the streets.
Keiko as Reuters said has lost allies, like Porky and his Looney Tunes followers. She went today to the presidential secretary (mesa de partes exactly) to give a letter asking for another round of international checking.
And the chief of the National Electoral Process Office was beaten by another fellow in the rich club Regatas.
>>

 No.345220

>>343163
The only person who comes close to being a "true accelerationist" is fucking Deng Xiaoping
>>

 No.345225

And some fascists are showing themselves up. Marching with the Burgundian cross.
>>

 No.345269

File: 1624937833294.png ( 502.11 KB , 1200x400 , ClipboardImage.png )

Man, has anything really happened since we won? Or is this just /ITG/ on vacation in Peru?
>>

 No.345274

>>343148
Isn't that pretty standard entryism? Does that really change anything?

Also I have not really followed this election at all, but I do know that they are making bullshit allegations of voter fraud against Castillo and Peru Libre. What is the current situation?
>>

 No.345289

>>343148
Based and rosepilled Socdem pragmatism, All pedro needs now is to send the freikorps to go kill some dumb bitch.
>>

 No.345294

>>345269
>7x7 grid of squares arranges to form a clearly non-square rectangle
bruh what the fuck
>>

 No.345308

>>338458
Absolute non-sequitur lmao
>>

 No.345317

File: 1624938927674.jpg ( 182.81 KB , 1200x988 , 1200px-Yalta_Conference_(C….jpg )

>>338586
HOLY SHIT 2 UYGHAS TOGETHER THEY MUST BE THE SAME
>>

 No.345324

File: 1624939141413.png ( 16.64 KB , 290x508 , 2012-phc-summary-01a.png )

>>340150
The only Gonzaloites I've seen online are all white Americans or Western Euros, and wtf are you talking about with migration you fucking retard, picrel
>>

 No.345329

whats the word for peru now
>>

 No.345336

>>340667
You can't walk back from carbombings and massacres my guy, can you think of any revolutionaries looking to be successful that did autistic shit like this
>>

 No.345952

>>345189

>Che was ML, no Maoist

literally exactly the point I was making you moron. He still studied and respected Mao, like Pol Pot did. But not a Maoist. Curious.

>Again, that was a rolling snowball that couldn't be stopped.

Rubbish. Simply cut the funding. It is also not the only incidence of this. Angola, selling arms to the contras, etc etc. Pure cope you are giving.

>It wasn't successful at all, with all the years unfortunately they couldn't achieve a victory with armed struggle.

and yet literally like 4 years after their peace deal there they are, doing armed general strikes and Columbia is in the midst of a revolutionary situation. Cope more burger. FARC are 100% based. Probably don't even know the history of why they exist. Bet you think trade unionists should just lay down and get murdered by coca cola.

>Took decades to dismantle Stalin's image from the same communists that swore to protect the USSR and you come to say untrue? C'mon.

Foriegn policy changes all the time. It is pure cope to say there is nothing Dengists could have done to change Chinese foriegn policy. Because they did change it, to a pro CIA foriegn policy.

>Sandinismo from the beginning wasn't seeking the USSR's support because they saw what it was becoming.

so you agree then, the USSR failed to support international revolution in this regard.

>>345336
>can you think of any revolutionaries looking to be successful that did autistic shit like this
literally the october revolution. Beforehand and during there was a huge amount of bombings, assinations, etc.

>massacres

ronderos deserved it. The truth and reconcilliation comittee report is fucking bullshit, if you believe it you are a straight imperialist stooge no question, even libs don't believe it.
>>

 No.345955

>>345324
>the online gonzaloites…online
maybe you should log off then retard the revolution is IRL
>>

 No.345998

>>345269
Shameless shill ahead
If you are vaccinated, and wanting to visit Peru, now is the time, the amount of tourists is low so you will be able to enjoy the ruins or views without problems, if you are good with moeny then travelling will be easy cake

Ok, now serious. I will try to summarize how we are:
>Pedro wins
>Keiko loses her shit
>Keiko calls Lima's big lawyers
>Lima's big lawyers proceed to fuck up things (sending ballot nullification after the office has closed or just paying 2 ballots for the process out of 14)
>Electoral regional tribunals begin to ditch those nullifications
>Keiko's lawyers lose their shit too and begin process over here and there to "extend" the time of attention of said office, to get more ballot nullifications on the field
<Now is time to adress the story of the Public Prosecutor Arce
<The man, with a past alleged connected to the mob of the Whitecollars of the Port, was elected to be one of the members of the JNE
<He was the one member of the 4 who was more proKeiko
<He rennounced/ "declined" (because quitting is impossible according to law) and got suspended
<The process of nullification appeal was suspended from 1 day because of that.
<The process may continue now but with another Public Prosecutor with allleged nexus with the White Collars of the Port (now the one that allegedly advised fujis of something.
Right, in this point one can mention the Vladiaudios
>Vladimiro Illich Montesinos, spymaster of the Fujimori regime, prisoner of the Naval Base of Callao.Was able to contact some "political operators" being tapped by one of them, where in that conversation he suggests bribing 3 members of the JNE with one million dollars each to extend the period of nullifications (which they did, but they cackpedled the same afternoon).
>In other audios (the third, specifically) he talks about the options Keiko has, believing the only one left is the US embassy, since the navy has backpedled in whatever they were what could be right? and that if "the girl" fails, "the girl" will go to prison and "the mister" will die in prison.
>Later Popy Olivera (the center-right politician who showed the audios) called for a new elecion but nobody cared lel
>Pedro met with presidents and expresidents of the pink tide and later did the sunday speech, Which can be seen complete here https://youtu.be/poFVzT27mYM where he goes full socdem and calls for the head of the Peruvian Central Bank to not leave right now (and I will point out again that the change Sol/Dollar is in 4, before the elections was 3.5). At least the change right now is in 3.86 and frankly, the administration of the central bank (which is autonomous according to the constitution) is a matter of the congress,chosen by them, which will be predominantly center to right.
>Yesterday Keiko went to palace to leave a letter to the president for a OAS mission ot check the ballots, the OAS has congratulated the elections for being transparent so that was show
>And, the right appears to be split, from the Fujis being sidelined to a more apparent attempt to overthrow Castillo and Boluarte by congress and put ex.Admrl. Montoya as president.
To end. Things appear to be Ok. The electoral tribunals are rejecting Popular Force claims but there are some hints that the right is preparing more B plans, from coopting the goverment (Ollanta style) to a congress couo (already mentioned) and the fizzled military coup (talked by Montesinos).
>>

 No.346003

>>345955
The only way to check your IRL would be to do polls in the peruvian expats and checking if they consider themselves to be "exiles" or "political refugees" if not, there is no way to checking it and we are debating about how many angels can be placed in a needle.
>>

 No.346063

Also, if someone wants music
>>

 No.346188

>>345952
>literally exactly the point I was making you moron. He still studied and respected Mao, as Pol Pot did. But not a Maoist. Curious.

My point was that Pol Pot was a Maoist, god, he rejected the USSR over China for his Maoism point
Of course, he created a one-armed ideology from his Maoism, baning all sorts of productive labors whenever they felt paranoic enough that was threatening their goal of achieving communism.
Again, ultra maoists were always a danger to ML parties around the world. This is relevant with SP, because they KILLED MODERATE COMMUNISTS.
>>345952
> Simply cut the funding
Deng never founded. All the money came from the U.S.
>>345952

>and yet literally like 4 years after their peace deal there they are, doing armed general strikes and Columbia is in the midst of a revolutionary situation

lol no, it's not just them. If you think the Farc is the faction being successful using the strike, you are delirious. It was Gustavo Petro who amounted most of the votes last time there was a presidential election, in the left spectrum, and he isn't a representative from the Union Patriótica, lmao.
>>345952
>Cope more burger
don't project, I am Latin-American living in a SA country.
>>345952
>FARC are 100% based

I never said they weren't based at some point, but they didn't reach their objective. They had a goal to reach ~40k armed members to start the national armed take-over, but it collapsed because they failed to reach the population inside the cities + falsos positivos, started by Uribe.
Don't come here to teach me about the FARC.
>>345952
>Foriegn policy changes all the time. It is pure cope to say there is nothing Dengists could have done to change Chinese foriegn policy. Because they did change it, to a pro CIA foriegn policy.
Again, blame Mao for this and his 3 world theory.
>>345952

>so you agree then, the USSR failed to support international revolution in this regard.

My point still stands correct: The Sandinista never seek USSR support from the beginning.
>>

 No.346387

>>346188
>My point was that Pol Pot was a Maoist, god,
yes and its based on retarded reasoning. You said he must be a maoist because he studied Mao and so on. So did che.

> because they KILLED MODERATE COMMUNISTS.

pahahahaha. You're a fan of the USSR right? Also the Tupac revolutionary movement weren't eh, "moderate" by any measure. Just the smaller sect.

>Deng never founded. All the money came from the U.S.

Oh please this is actually the severest cope going. You are saying deng and co had absolutetly no way to not get involved in backing Maoist groups in Afghanistan? Purleeease

>lol no, it's not just them. If you think the Farc is the faction being successful using the strike, you are delirious. It was Gustavo Petro who amounted most of the votes last time there was a presidential election, in the left spectrum, and he isn't a representative from the Union Patriótica, lmao.

the left is a broad movement. FARC are certainly a part of this eco system and infrastructure.

>don't project, I am Latin-American living in a SA country.

probably a bougie one.

>FARC

>I never said they weren't based at some point.
Okay, so if they gave support to the SP then you understand this was a reasonable and respectable ally to have, and you can't just write them off as just some guerrillas.

>Again, blame Mao for this and his 3 world theory.

blame Mao for what Deng did? Okay well you are obviously a china simp, so I'll say Mao is also responsible for Chinas current prosperity then ;)

>My point still stands correct: The Sandinista never seek USSR support from the beginning.

its doesn't because they did, the USSR was just too autistic to give them proper support in the way they wanted.
>>

 No.346421

File: 1624991663814.jpg ( 34.88 KB , 1000x530 , eln.jpg )

>>342978
>Name a revolutionary communist movement that isn't china, cuba or the dprk that isn't Maoist.
Too many to count. Any given country is going to have multiple communist movements.

>B-but by "revolutionary" I meant having a bunch of militiamen shitting in the woods somewhere having shootouts with police pretending they're doing protracted people's war

You've got a point that "Maoist" Gonzaloites basically have a monopoly on quixotic adventurism. However, they're not the only left militias in the world. The ELN isn't Maoist, nor is the PKK.
>>

 No.346423

It's so cursed seeing Keiko in a T-72
>>

 No.346451

>>346387
>You said he must be a Maoist because he studied Mao and so on
AND FUCKING REJECTED THE USSR, read, nibb, read.
>>346387
> Also the Tupac revolutionary movement wasn't eh, "moderate" by any measure. Just the smaller sect.
They never killed moderate communists, and also, they were guerrilla.
>>346387
>Oh please this is actually the severest cope going. You are saying deng and co had absolutetly no way to not get involved in backing Maoist groups in Afghanistan? Purleeease
Why you do these ellipses. I never said they weren't involved. They were indeed in their support as long the Maoist group inside could achieve something there, but how can Deng stop the support if all his base was Maoist, to begin with.
Again, took decades to dismantle Stalinism from the constant revisionism, and they still supported many MLS movements because their base inside because the MLS inside the USSR was strong.
>>346387
> if they gave support to the SP then you understand this was a reasonable and respectable ally to have
No, it wasn't. These schizos never achieved mass support from the popular base inside Peru. It is retarded, and you should be ashamed if you have a party that supported such a shitty group, and not retracted the support, then you are condemned to lose. FFS they killed AND FUCKING BRAGGED ABOUT IT, Maria Elena Moyano, who was part of a massive and popular union of leftist parties, included the Peruvian Communist Party.
>>346387
>so I'll say Mao is also responsible for Chinas current prosperity then ;)
Yeah, sure, he's. Thou, Deng reforms helped, too.
>>346387
>probably a bougie one.
You love to deflect, I see.
>>346387
>its doesn't because they did
Re-read the screecaps, you chipmunk.
>>

 No.346533

Redfish isn't what it used to be
They misspelled Torres kek
>>

 No.346551

Analysis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbvndOSIJDM
Why Pedro Castillo "figures", like Julio Velarde, are chosen and ratified.
>>

 No.346645

>>346551
Ouch, a benign beating. But a good one frankly. Nice one anon.
>>

 No.346729

>>345952
>literally the october revolution
Yes, Narodniks were seen as autistic wreckers, your point being? Bruh anarchists and ultranationalists in the early 20th century were careful to only kill monarchs or nobility, if you can't do better than that in the 1980s, along with stringing dead dogs on the street and being a cult I don't know what to say
>>

 No.346743

>>

 No.346749

>>345955

seethe gringo, fly over here and see what the average person thinks
>>

 No.346774

>>346421
>the two examples he gives of non maoist movement are fighting people wars in the jungle, and one is literally an ex maoist group
kek, cope and seethe trot

>>346451
>AND FUCKING REJECTED THE USSR, read, nibb, read.
so did tito was he a maoist then?

>They never killed moderate communists,

kek this again, i see you cleverly avoided where i asked if you were a fan of the USSR. I didn't say the tupac movement killed moderate communists, but you knew that. Nice dodge. Tupac were guerrilas who equally did bombings etc, but apparently when SP fight them they are the poor victims, even in the same post where you then go on to condemn the same behaviour in SP.

Complete retardation, completely inconsistent, tying yourself in knots bollocks.

>how can Deng stop the support if all his base was Maoist, to begin with.

so he can do all that liberalisation of the economy but couldn't possible not do all that foriegn policy stuff? Again, RIDICULOUS.

>No, it wasn't. These schizos never achieved mass support from the popular base inside Peru.

this is 1) a lie they had massive peasant support and 2) Not a reason why that makes FARC not a reasonable and respectable ally to have, which was your original claim several posts back, that throughout the world SP had no allies, which was just complete bollocks in fact we have seen multiple allies.

>FFS they killed AND FUCKING BRAGGED ABOUT IT,

Many leftists have flexed about besting their opponents. You are acting like a dumb dumb lib like you refuse to accept the communist movement does have to kill people.

>Yeah, sure, he's. Thou, Deng reforms helped, too.

oh so you're saying Deng did in fact have some agency and was responsible for things during his power.

>You love to deflect, I see.

while you're playing ad hominem i'm playing it back. We are on an anon image board who you are doesn't matter particularly when you are wrong.

>Re-read the screecaps, you chipmunk.

i have changes nout
>>

 No.346781

>>346749
They are talking about the MRTA LMAO the group you are trying to pretend are the innocent victims.

Jesus christ you SUCH a dumb lib

>oooh da leftist are evil cults and terrorists ooooh

wow wonder who could be behind this post.

Cannot even believe this whole thing started with Maoists being called glowies LMAO
>>

 No.346784

So Pedro turns out to be just another neolib?
>>

 No.346793

>>346729
They were maybe seen as autistic wreckers, but they took part in the revolutionary movement and it was successful in the end wasn't it. It also wasn't just narodniks that did this
>>

 No.346819

File: 1625001777949.mp4 ( 7.9 MB , 640x360 , ANTAURO AMIGO.mp4 )

Is it true that Castillo will free the leader of Peruvian Nazbol Gang from the prison?
>>

 No.346821

>>346819
Supposedly, but idk if he'll be allowed to do such a thing. 100% likelier than freeing Guzman THOUGH
>>

 No.346887

>>346774
Tito was a revisionist, too, if you ask me. He proposed Stalin to invade neighbouring countries and when Stalin reply was a 'no' all his socialist ideals backtracked by a huge chunk.
Stalin was afraid of a conflict with the west with nuclear weapons on the table, but Tito gave 0 fucks about that. Instead, he seduced the idea that Yugoslavia could build its own, but later on served like a cat paw for the demolishing of the socialists revolutions, because divide and conquer works like a charm for capitalists.
>tupamaruc violent bombings
Only Japanese embassies and U.S. embassies. The little pricks from SP wouldn't care who to kill.
>Killing enemies
Oh shit, read about Moyano first you illiterate piece of shit. She not only wasn't an enemy of the revolutionary processes, she WAS PART of the left front that included the Peruvian Communist Party. Read nibba how many people attended to her funeral, lmao. How can an ultramaoist party be so de-attached from really they didn't acknowledge that she wasn't an enemy.
>Deng this, Deng that
>implying was Deng, when he was a tractor factory worker by the date, who wrote and published the 3rd world theory.
Again, the economic reforms were more or less a result of the policies dictated from the U.S. but it was Mao who aligned himself with the U.S. to stop the USSR 'menacing' 'presence' in ME.
>nout
Well, that's how you cope things I guess. Can't do much if you can't understand that Maoism alone is a poisonous ideology.
>>

 No.346960

>>346774
Burgeranon idgaf about the MRTA as victims, but they weren't the ones who autistically chose to fight the only other guerilla group that could have been allies, that was the Senderos
>massive peasant support
Prove it , biggest figures I've seen thrown around are 50,000 max in 1992, which is around 0.002% of the population for that year, furthermore, what sort of massive peasant support you epic retard, in 1980 Peru was 70%+ urbanized, and by 1990 80%+ were urbanized, and it kept going after that, you really think 1/3rd of your supposed core having to move from their communal farms to city sprawl slums indicates support? You are also subtly implying that an organization which had no issue massacring 69-80 unarmed villagers (pregnant women, children, all) was super beloved for the way they treated their base, and totally didn't create a situation where self-organized peasant militias would turn on them for their bullshit
>besting their opponents
Those random people just existing on the streets of Lima were totally opponents and definitely won over by having themselves, their family, friends, etc. be affected in some way due to an attack or the blackouts caused, killing people callously is never needed (especially when the majority affected were either peasants or proles in the wrong place
at the wrong time)
>>346793
Uneeded infantile LWC
>>346781
Retarded gringo, do you not get that your penis envy for a pet group doesn't matter if the people 1 generation later (who are not the majority, majority age is something around middle aged, i.e the people who lived through the conflict, the parents of the people being interviewed) if people who didn't even live through terrorism think this of the group, what do you think their parents think lmfao
>wow wonder who could be behind this post
No argument detected, seems like you're just assmad your viewpoint isn't shared by the vast majority of Peruvians
>>

 No.346987

>>346887
> it was Mao who aligned himself with the U.S. to stop the USSR 'menacing' 'presence' in ME.
What makes you so sure of this? Source?
>>

 No.346993

>>346645
Yeah, we can't expect idealistic results. I hope he doesn't break before doing at least some direct action that benefits the peasants and the workers.
>>

 No.346994

>>346887
>Tito was a revisionist, too, if you ask me. He proposed Stalin to invade neighbouring countries and when Stalin reply was a 'no' all his socialist ideals backtracked by a huge chunk.
This is an outrageous lie
Tito and Hoxha were the only people supporting the Greek revolution. The decline of the Greek revolution was because of Stalin insisting that Greece go to NATO as agreed in the post-WW2 deals with the Allies.
>>

 No.347003

>>346960
My bad, 65% in 1980 and 70% in 1992, for reference, modern day EEUU is around 82%, so this is quite high urbanization nonetheless, especially for a 3rd world country lol
>>

 No.347104

>>346994
It was first that Tito wanted to annex territories like Trieste, a couple of years before the Greek revolts, and pushing very hard to annex countries close to Yugoslavia. Read some history, please.
>>

 No.347206

>>347109
cont.
further Reading. If you can read all of this, I will bring the parts where Mao stressed his worries about growing influence of the "USSR" "menacing" "influence" in the middle east:
https://www.marxists.org/subject/china/documents/cpc/9th_congress_report.htm
>>

 No.347294

>>346993
With the constitution we are in, benefits to the workers is a lot, and a nonaligned foreign policy would be expected (would amaze me if he goes at least as an observator to the ALBA, I believe it is more probable seeing him in Puebla).
That is why the constitution change is everything. The state can't compete even for strategic resources (as the failed buy of Repsol Peru during Humala's tenure shows).
>>347109
>>347206
The retardation that was Mao's grandious ambicions mades me itch. Divide and conquer, divide and conquer.
And in the end, the bourg just conquered and conquered and conquered. 30 years ago one could expect an Allendist position, now we have to settle for a moderate Castillo, fuck Mao.
>>

 No.347295

>>345190
me two, despite the anglos in the thread bitching and fear mongering
it's like they don't like good things

>>346749
>>346743
this

>>346774
stfu anglow gringo
>>

 No.347315

>>347294
What am I speaking. 30 years ago was the near coronation of the Washington consensus. Whatever, if one analyses closely the past one will be able to see how big the roadblocks where, better than those who took the decisions did.

Ah, right, and in other news. Keiko's minions went to Washington to present a letter claiming fraud.
>>

 No.347348

To all the gringos elsewhere, we aren't opposed (well, weren't) to revolution, but Sendero Luminoso and MRTA fucked it and managed to spook the population so badly that they consistently largely vote for a Fujimorist party for the past 30 years and the family has trans-generational political clout despite making initially plunging large amount of people into poverty due to his administration "ending the terrorist threat" You can call the country cucked as much as you'd like from your computer but the fact is that the groups were just not popular enough in the cities (you know, where 65%+ of the population was and where about 10% people from the countryside came in (upping to around 75%) during the civil conflict in between 1980 and 2000
This may not sound like a lot, but the modern USA is around 82% urbanized, so only being "popular" in the countryside wasn't going to cut it, and even calling them popular there was a stretch, as the figures thrown around portray them as being a fifth of 1% of the country at best, am open to new data, but random polemics are not data, I'd even take some random testimony from a random guerilla saying that they actually had billions of loyal followers at their peak in 1992 as opposed to the measly 50,000 it appears they had, though it would still leave doubt as they more or less crumbled in the following years after Abimael was captured, along with the rest of the heads of the party later on, indicating that it was an organization largely held together by an absurd faith in 1 "immortal scientist and leadership"
>>

 No.347354

>>347348
Gonzalo admitted to wiping out whole villages, but I haven't hear of the MRTA doing anything similar. Would be interested to learn more
>>

 No.347373

>so only being "popular" in the countryside wasn't going to cut it, and even calling them popular there was a stretch
Being popular nationwide isn't exactly the goal of Maoism. It revolves more around taking a self-sufficient rural mass base in tactical areas and spreading popular revolt forward. On top of it all was the peasant economy of Peru, right? Shining Path was pretty popular, definitely way more than a fifth or something
>>

 No.347385

>>347348
Do you know how many members the bolsheviks had before the october revolution
>>

 No.347396

>>347385
Hahahaha, we are back comparing them with the bolsheviks.
The bolsheviks weren't maoists doing protracted people's war waiting to take Moscow in 30 years. They managed to gain power slowly during the struggles between the liberals, menshevicks and rightoids and gain control of the state during the october revolution by having the red guards.
No point of comparison
>>

 No.347412

>>347396
>The bolsheviks weren't maoists
Huh no shit? What are you even trying to say? Who is even comparing them? You need to take your medication.
>>

 No.347421

>>347412
>Who is even comparing them?
>>347385
>>

 No.347422

>>347412
>Argument failed
>Resort to schizo accusation
Like clockwork
>>

 No.347459

>>347373
Where is the proofs, do you have a source or something on the asinine claim of "way more than a fifth" and "pretty popular" despite literal randoms who didn't grow up during those times not liking them (and not pitucos either, just some dudes on the street), if so, how would you counter with around 97% of the population voting in 2000, going against the voting boycott, and the average voter turnout overall being around 82%, which is UE (or EU) tier levels of participation, or this: In June 1991, "the total sample disapproved of the Shining Path by an 83 to 7 percent margin, with 10 percent not answering the question. Among the poorest, however, only 58% stated disapproval of the Shining Path; 11 percent said they had a favorable opinion of the Shining Path, and some 31 percent would not answer the question."[45] A September 1991 poll found that 21 percent of those polled in Lima believed that the Shining Path did not torture and kill innocent people. The same poll found that 13% believed that society would be more just if the Shining Path won the war and 22% believed society would be equally just under the Shining Path as it was under the government.
inb4 muh laws, the constitution with anti-terrorism laws was installed in 1992-1993
Again, do you have any data or are you just using conjecture because the holy books of theory say that when you say you're at "strategic equilibrium" it means that in real life you have the support of all
also
>being popular nationwide isn't the goal
Blanquist bullshit, every successful revolution, including the Chinese one, had actually support in the countryside before they initiated any sort of armed conflict, even then, aside from admitting that "Maoism" is blanquist-narodnik strategy that lacks efficacy and hasn't brought about any real gains in the countries it is active in, you point to the "self-sufficient rural mass bass" which more or less didn't exist in Peru due to the high urbanization
In China, as late as1985 about 33 percent of the population was urban, meaning that crunching the number you get outrageously high lack of urbanized population in the revolutionary era, in the 80-90% range of the country being comprised of peasants, similar situation in places like Vietnam or Camboya, as well as actually having decent land that can be easily farmed, unlike the Himalayan-like Andean mountains which are not optimal for farming in the first place and which at the time were using inneffective imported Spanish methods (only recently have they started to realize that perhaps the people who had lived there for thousands of years may have picked up a thing or two about farming in the sierra)
That on top of the "large peasant bass" (of which apparently around 10% left due to the conflict to live in the cities between 1980 and 2000, but I'm sure they were all "reactionary" or "snitches" and not just normal people)

tl;dr, give a fucking source for the claims, conjecture based upon your own biases for a group in a country you and other Americans and Europeans couldn't point out on a map isn't a source, also Gonzalo tried to play as Mao, pretending you could graft the Chinese situation of fighting a war where the overwhelming majority of the population were peasants and there was plentiful arable land to a country where only about a third were rural, which then shifted to around a quarter (now much less, floating at around 80% urbanization kek) and there is shit land and just a lot of rocks and mountains was retarded
>>

 No.347475

>>347385
Sabes que los Bolcheviques ganaron lolol? Ademas, otra situacion, guerra civil, invasion de otros paises, nunca pense que estos gringos de mierda podrian comparar un movimiento inmenso como el de los sovieticos, que tubieron milliones de soldados en solo el ejercito rojo (cerca a 6% de la poblacion del Imperio Ruso (Rusia, Ukrania, etc.), ni siquiera contando los soportadores civiles a un movimiento que a lo maximo tenia un total de 0.002% de la poblacion del Peru en 1992

You know the Bolsheviks won lolol? In addition, another situation, civil war, invasion of other countries, I never thought that these shitty gringos could compare an immense movement like that of the Soviets, who had millions of soldiers in only the Red Army (close to 6% of the population of the Russian Empire (Russia, Ukraine, etc. definitely 6% of the RSFSR), not even counting the civil supporters to a movement that at most had a total of 0.002% of the population of Peru in 1992
>>

 No.347491

File: 1625026562049.jpg ( 57.07 KB , 1200x514 , brainlet so hard.jpg )

>>346774
>openly admits to being an adventurist
lmao

>are fighting people wars in the jungle

Tell me about all the jungles in southern Turkey you fucking retard

>and one is literally an ex maoist group

Neither of them were ever Maoist. The PKK used to be Marxist-Leninist, but neither ever gave a shit about your retard Gonzalo.
>>

 No.347697

so how fucking long will it take to officially recognize a new president of peru?!?!
>>

 No.347804

>>347697
Looks llike a little bit more, a week more I think, all of their cases have been thrown to the bin but there are still more to throw.
Today in congress some will try to bring down (a censorship vote) the centrist/erformist goverment and to put more screws in Pedro's chair by electing the new members in the Constitutional Tribunal.

Also, last night a rondero who came from Ayacucho died, presumably as a product an attack by armed extremeFujimori militants
>>

 No.347996

File: 1625070953388.jpg ( 114.64 KB , 1080x663 , E5GKgN6XMAIfxYD.jpg )

>>347354
>>347396
>/leftypol/ finally understanding why killing thousands of workers in autistic red terrors makes people hate them

peru is the perfect example of what happens when a comunist revolution fails and the muh leader has no chance to indoctrinate the population and deny the massacres nor to create a somewhat fuctional state until it gets reformed into a mixed economy or capitalist state
<Nooo but the peruvian states makes muhh propaganda
false there are an infinite amount of ONG´s and leftists groups in peru making keeping things neutral, like LUM or mos human rights organizations

<in other news

PRO CASTILLO RONDERO WAS KILLED BY FUJIMORISTS AND CASTILLO CONDEMED IT
https://www.telesurtv.net/news/peru-fallece-militante-peru-libre-agredido-fujumoristas-20210630-0002.html
peru is at the edge of a political violence era like during the Allendeist regime or early spanish civil war anarchist violence
>>

 No.348017

>>347996
what are the chances of civil war
>>

 No.348018

>>345317
Fujimori sold guns to Farc and other guerrilla in exchage for cocaine
>muh reboolution workers duh duh
in latin america politics revolve arround cocaine even muh revolutionaries, the glowies hate guerrillas not becouse muh proletariat bla bla, rather becouse they are competence in their drug dealer operations
>>

 No.348023

>>348018
god bless cocaína
>>

 No.348031

>>348017
48%, the BCR has sold over 100million dolars in order to lower the monetary exchange but it will not last for long, people are highly parcialized, groups, firendships and even families are broking over politics and in some poor areas the police has found TNT, anti-helicopter bazookas and most banks /malls are creating anti-rioting measures
>>

 No.348493

Shit. I remember making a shitpost about a rondero insurgency in rural Peru and the effects that would have for non-state militants like the SL and the cartels. I guess that's the path the country will be heading to.
>>

 No.348550

>>347996
Castillo is Manuel Azaña confirmed?
>>

 No.348897

>>347996
It's not that it, not that simple. Whenever a peaceful socialist president tried to reach power the U.S. meddled into the country affairs to desestabilizing or coup the president. It is worth to mention Gaitan and Sandino.
Of course some of the armed guerrillas used cocaine because Lenin has taught the necessities of the dynamics inside a revolution, and every theory connoisseur would know that Lenin stole banks with Trotsky and Stalin and counterfeited money to destabilize the tsar.
Using drugs for armed struggle then doesn't by de-facto tags a revolution like a fraud or something like that.
It was the reckless actions against their own population and other leftist groups what destroyed SP.
>>

 No.348912

>>348897
most comunists/socialists who reach power throw most theory out in the moment they see is nearly impossible to apply it IRL thats why you have a lot of sub-movements in the comunist movements
>>

 No.348970

>>348912
Most? I would love to have a Tito, a Hoxha, a Mao, a Stalin, fuck, even a Trotsky, rather a mildly moderate from the liberal spectrum.
Even people like Garbagshit or Khrushit, I would take them in a heartbeat.
Do you think our disputes over revisionism make us sectarians against them? We know who was and who was not on the side of the people and our search for the truth doesn't mean we don't support most of their actions.
>>

 No.349263

>>348018
This is just true, EVERYONE uses coke because it's one of the regions in the world that actually grows the plant from which it's derived, it would be stupid not to aid in it because you're just asking for the other faction to take your share of the market
>>347996
<but muh propaganda
This is also irrelevant, if the population thinks A, no amount of "have you akshually read President Gonzalo though" from some Swedish kid is going to change the mind of some middle aged Peruvian dude who lived through the conflict and convert them to Gonzaloism
>>

 No.349405

>>347996
I don't know if to blame alarmist/twatter entusiasts but while an investigation will be done, the media and the police have closed down on that case, since some documents from the hospital say that the man was cronically ill and entered the hospital before the attack. His daughter also says that he didn't died as a result of the attack,since he couldn't leave home but he was politically active from his cellphone.
https://larepublica.pe/politica/2021/06/30/hija-de-sacarias-meneses-mi-papa-murio-por-cirrosis-hepatica/
https://larepublica.pe/sociedad/2021/07/01/pesar-por-la-muerte-de-simpatizante-de-peru-libre/
Someitmes, an avalanche just flows and flows, the same with fake news.
>>

 No.349434

But, knowing how good and honest and clean the police is.no wonder how anyone (including myself) could doubt. Those who died last year, in the protests agianst the Chlimper law or against Merino's goverment haven't been given justice yet.
>>

 No.351802

Daily roundup:
-More Vladiaudios, in which Montesinos talks about how they should buy the judges and as B plan send Keiko's husband to the US embassy with the proofs of the fraud to make Biden and the CIA act on Peru.
https://larepublica.pe/elecciones/2021/07/02/elecciones-2021-vladimiro-montesinos-queria-intervencion-de-estados-unidos-para-favorecer-a-keiko-fujimori-pltc/
>First audio
Montesinos: You understand it better. As a military man, based on that theme, right?

Rejas: Sure. Yes of course.

Montesinos: So, to an unconventional (war) strategy you have to put an unconventional response. If you put a formal, conventional answer, then you lose, compadre.

Rejas: That's right.

Montesinos: That is the scheme.

Rejas: Already.

Montesinos: (Julio) Castiglioni, who is the lawyer for the mornings, who is supposed to be the brain (of Keiko Fujimori's defense), says: “No, I'm already depressed, I feel like we're going to lose, I didn't celebrate yesterday nothing for Father's Day, because it is already a defeat ”, right?

Rejas: What? So has he said?

Montesinos: Him, Castiglioni, in the morning.

Rejas: Like this?

Montesinos: He was interviewed by (José María) Chema Salcedo on the radio.

Rejas: Yeah, and did you say that?

Montesinos: That was what he said in the morning, on a radio called PBO. (…)

Rejas: Already. (…)

Rejas: They told me they were going to call him. How weird they didn't call him. (…)

Montesinos: You have today to talk to him and solve the matter. One more day goes by and the others will be pronounced at any moment. And he's going to be sad, brother.

Rejas: So they are cheating on the lady (Keiko Fujimori)?

Montesinos: They are cheating on you, brother. He's trusting (Giuliana) Loza. La Loza is a girl. So she doesn't have a strategic advisor, brother.

Rejas: Aha.

Montesinos: I have sent word to the daughter (Fujimori congresswoman Valeria Valer) of the deceased, of ‘Chizito’ (Colonel EP Juan Valer Sandoval, who died during Operation Chavín de Huántar).

Rejas: Ah, now. Yes.

Montesinos: I sent him to tell him what to do. Bitch, but the girl is scared to death, she freaks out, damn it.

Rejas: Who, the daughter?

Montesinos: The daughter. Bitch. I say, damn it, daughter of a military man and sucked on top.

Next, as another option to try to distort the electoral result, Montesinos proposed seeking the CIA, an organization with which he had fluid contact during the Alberto Fujimori regime. Here is the excerpt:

Montesinos: Look, what they have to do is go to the United States Embassy and speak with the intelligence (official) of the Embassy, ​​bring him all the documentation of the fraud.

Rejas: I mean, right now, who has all that? To get it to you.

Montesinos: she has it, well, Keiko has that.

Rejas: Ah, she has that.

Montesinos: She has that. With that documentation they would have to go to the Embassy and speak with the intelligence officer of the Embassy, ​​which is called the Office of Regional Affairs. (…) Her husband (Mark Vito Villanella) can go, as he is an American, he can go to his embassy, ​​bring the documents, show them, leave them to the embassy, ​​and ask them to refer him to their chief in Washington .

Rejas: Now, now.

Montesinos: And in Washington the boss tells the president there, and the White House spokeswoman may issue a statement, to prevent Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua from imposing themselves in Peru. With such a statement, then, she has a great weight.

Rejas: Short too. Help.

Montesinos: Sure, then, damn it, fucking mother. I have sent him to say that several days ago, and they ignore me, brother.

Rejas: In other words, Keiko already has that documentation. (…)

Montesinos: But if she does that with the White House, with the documentation, she puts the yucca in them.
>Looking for money
>Telephone dialogue between Vladimiro Montesinos and Commander (r) Pedro Rejas Tataje.
>Montesinos proposes asking businessmen for money to finance the purchase of three members of the JNE.

Montesinos: (…) With A and M there is never compatibility.

Rejas: Already.

Montesinos: That's why it doesn't work, it won't work, they are going to the classic, to the conventional, they are screwed. That is not going to work. The solution that I have told you is with Guillermo (Sendón Guerra). He's the only one who has the … the …

Rejas: The key!

Montesinos: The direct mentality to people (…), who tell them: “Compadre, I need you to support me in this… ta, ta, ta… How is the jarana? It's over!".

Rejas: Already.

Montesinos: That they talk directly with him.

Rejas: In other words, everything they are doing they are looking for (…). For ignoring it, it is whim, whose? Because… hello?

Montesinos: Yes, yes.

Rejas: Because, because there is that denial of not listening.

Montesinos: Because the head, then, is contrary, it is enemy. He is contaminated. The other three.

Rejas: I'm going on the lady's side, which she already said. But they want that pool of lawyers to solve everything, when there is already a solution. I already passed on what she has given me.

Montesinos: Sure, well, look, I'm telling you (…), I'm telling you that it's a conventional and unconventional war…

Rejas: Already.

Montesinos: In unconventional warfare, you have to use special procedures …

Rejas: Sure.

Montesinos: In conventional warfare it is different in formalities. So, they are going to the formality with the group of lawyers, they hire prestigious lawyers that denotes that they are prestigious, but they are not going to listen to them because the procedure is irregular.

Rejas: Sure.

Montesinos: Did you understand?

Rejas: Yes, I understood. I have it clear.

Montesinos: So, a person who is a friend of people has to come in and tell him: “Hey, buddy, I need you to support me in this! And this is the goal. How is the theme? " I'm giving you the way out.

Rejas: Already. That one hundred percent is done as it was coordinated.

Montesinos: Sure, well (…). For this reason, the other agrees and says: "Sir, I have already spoken with that person, the subject is like this", and he is finished. Do not let time pass more, compadre, because you are going to speak out against it and there will no longer be any option. And here everything is being played for everything.

Rejas: Yeah, yeah, this person claims that he doesn't have those funds.

Montesinos: But, if you don't have it, then look for it, compadre!

Rejas: How? Do you have any idea how or who you can knock on the door?

Montesinos: Well, I don't know, well, brother. If they who are outside cannot do it. Well, how can you do brother? They are assholes, brother, they can't do it. Well, then, they have a lot of people who have financed it, let them knock on the door.

Rejas: Already.

Montesinos: As I said, I to whom …

Rejas: Already. And how long can you see that?

Montesinos: You have to do it as quickly as possible because, I tell you, the first question is so that the deadline of 8 at night is extended to 12 at night, for which there will be a lot of minutes that will be valued.

Rejas: Already. In other words, from 8 o'clock they will extend until 12. In other words, that is a possibility.

Montesinos: No, it is not a possibility that can be achieved.

Rejas: As long as what you are recommending is given.

Montesinos: Exactly, as long as they give what I have recommended. And, second step, it is as part of the conversation. It is the second step that is all positive for the person, right?

Rejas: Sure, sure.

Montesinos: Now, then, Guillermo (Sendón) has to talk to him, raise the issue of fees and all the revelry. If not, it won't work, buddy.

Rejas: Already.

Montesinos: Are they going?

Rejas: Yes, that's the key.

Montesinos: That is the key, that is the key that I am telling you

Rejas: I already told you, no matter how much (Óscar) Urviola (Hani) appears, nothing, things are not going that way.

Montesinos: No, brother, Urviola is a conventional voice.

Rejas: Sure.

Montesinos: This is an irregular war.

Rejas: Irregular, of course, the thing …

Montesinos: People are coming from outside, foreigners are driving low, they are trying to do the same. So, you have to act on the same scheme that they are acting on you, not against it. Not in formality.

Rejas: Already.

Montesinos: The scheme of conventional warfare and unconventional warfare is clear to you.

Rejas: Yes, yes, I have it clear.

Montesinos: If it had been other forces that entered the Embassy, ​​they would remove the dirt from you.

Rejas: That's right.

Montesinos: They had to be special forces.

Rejas: That's right.

Montesinos: So, it is the same now, brother.

Rejas: Already.

Montesinos: Bridging the distance and differences.

Rejas: Sure, of course.

Montesinos: So, find the lawyer and now, well, see who can help. I don't know that, because they have the son of Dionisio Romero there, those people, well, right?

Rejas: Ok, perfect.

Montesinos: Do you know who can also
-The JNE has called that the elected president will be proclaimed before July 15

-Some rightoids went to Washington to the office of the OAS, there was nobody to open the door for them, later they did a press conference (in an empty room) and an investigator accused them of coupplotters, it was wonderful

-Castillo has said that in July 28 he will ask the new congress the instalation of a new constitution. Meanwhile groups of lawyers, left wing activists and party members have united with the goal of getting enough signs to call for a referendum for a new constitution.
Liberals are screeching already.
>>

 No.354087

>>346887
>Tito was a revisionist, too, if you ask me.
so fucking what, stop deflecting, does him being non aligned make him a maoist? No.

also as this anon says :>>346994 you're full of shit anyway.

>Only Japanese embassies and U.S. embassies.

so bombings which you refuse to condemn for some reason

>Oh shit, read about Moyano first you illiterate piece of shit.

on noooo people got killed nooooo. You've still refused to answer what you think about Stalin. Pretty hilarious its been several posts now. Bet you post based Stalin memes around and are now here crying over spilt trot.

>Again, the economic reforms were more or less a result of the policies dictated from the U.S. but it was Mao who aligned himself with the U.S. to stop the USSR 'menacing' 'presence' in ME.

>when i pretend deng was a literally an automaton of mao policy and literally no agency so i can keep posting china memes on leftbook

>Can't do much if you can't understand that Maoism alone is a poisonous ideology.

you know its funny yes I believe you are from latin america but you talk like a rightoid. "poisonous ideology " this "terrorist" that. Neocon BS.

>Burgeranon idgaf about the MRTA as victims,

clearly you do because you simp them so hard.

>Prove it , biggest figures I've seen thrown around are 50,000 max in 1992

you realise the membership in the communist party is not same as support you dumbass. You realise what percentage of russians were in the bolshevik party at the time of the revolution?

>urbanisation

you have conceeded yourself it was 65% leaving 35% of the population. Yes that is large based to work on particularly when the other part of that base is only recently proletarianised.

>Those random people just existing on the streets of Lima

>all SP did was kill innocent random people
its just literally not true. Also they were fighting a civil war, and the state was far more violent, just like you to side with the violent bourgiouse state though.

>Uneeded infantile LWC

the revolution was succesful in the end. Killing off porky generals is very useful.

>if people who didn't even live through terrorism think this of the group, what do you think their parents think lmfao

imagine it anon, people lied to by porky media and fake truth and reconcillation comittee reports.

>seems like you're just assmad your viewpoint isn't shared by the vast majority of Peruvians

Yours is shared by the majority of the CIA
>>

 No.354291

>>349263
>some middle aged Peruvian dude who lived through the conflict and convert them to Gonzaloism
Dang, all three of them? What are the political implications of this?
>>

 No.354462

>>354291
Son of a bitch, the average age of the country is 30, with the amount of young people that there are this means that they've got a sizeable middle aged portion of the population, don't be retarded
>>354087
>clearly you do because you simp them so hard.
If it isn't x it's y
lmfao
>muh bolcheviks
disanalagous situation entirely, for various reasons like the bolcheviks running in elections, actually winning over segments of the army, fighting in a multi-factional civil war and fending off attacks from external capitalist nations, I already stated how much of the population of the Russian Empire/Russian, Ukrainian, etc., with actual data
<ALSO, you're making unfalsifiable claims that you can only back up by gesturing at other revolutions that there is data for, still waiting on this supposed debunking of the 50,000 number (which isn't of membership, but of total supporters)
>conceeded it was 65% leaving 35%
wtf lmao, no, it was 65% of the population urbanized that over the course of about twenty years turned to 75% and keeps going up today, you need to cope with the fact that a good minimum of 1/3 of the supposed core base fled the "Republica Popular" during the war
>All SP did was kill innocent random people
Strawman, but they did bomb civilians, notable instances would be Tarata or bombing the front of US embassy
<muh civil war
Irrelevant, we don't need to condemn the state because we all know they suck, you just want to play games of whataboutism because you have no arguments, also, Sendero killing 45% of those in the conflict being whittled down by people without proper sources in the EEUU to 38% means nothing and has no tangible effect, seeing as they started the conflict to begin with and the average man will not care about this difference, again, direction brain of "if it isn't x it's y"
>was successful in the end
Not due to Narodniks lmfao, good comparison though, bourgeois intellectuals committing terrorism that ultimately does nothing for the cause and being generally detached from the reality of the proletariat (Sendero committee, including Abimael, were white, most ranks of Sendero were either white or mestizo, even in Ayacucho their ranks spoke Quechua at a lower rate than was normal for the department, showing that they were likely the petit-bourgeois or bourgeois kids sent to college off of the backs of peons
>lied to
These people lived through the conflict you retarded gringo of shit, this isn't like Americans who watch television and are immediately spooked by seeing a man with a turban oceans and continents away, I would expect an Englishman to think that poor 3rd world people are idiots that can't think for themselves and just vomit what is told to them by the television though
>yours is shared by the majority of the CIA
no argument , you have no data, no source at all but conjecture and a hard on for a group in a country you couldn't point out on a map, still waiting on any sort of source for your claims, until then, keep coping
>>

 No.354554

>>354087
>on nooo people got killed nooooo
Hardly a trot lol, and "revolution is violent" isn't an excuse for stupidity lol
>>

 No.354647

>>354462
Same guy, for the record I would be considered a "Maoist" by most, I'm just not a retard who worships objectively garbage groups, for earlier comparison, the Chinese Civil War would be a more analogous comparison and ironically goes against what many Gonzaloites think "Maoism" is
>-was in a country that was 80-90% peasants China (1950, 1 year after the Chinese Civil war ended, 13% of the Chinese population was urbanized, even in 1985, only 33% of China was urbanized, Peru had been majority urban since 1964 and was 65% percent urbanized at the start of the conflict, which by 2000 had gone up to 75%, for reference, present day Germany is 77.45% urbanized, Peru being at 78.3%)
<-had majority support or sympathy BEFORE launching an armed conflict (as opposed to SL, which at the very best initially had under a third of the country sympathetic to them, which was eroded over time, at least 1/3rd of their base left the countryside to go to the cities (about 10% of the population lmao)
>-collaborated with the fucking KMT of all groups against the more present threat (in opposition to SL fighting with the MRTA despite them being the only other guerilla group in the country)
<-In 1949/1950 about 1% of the population were members of the Chinese Communist party, with about 2,600,000 members of the PLA, so 0.05% of the Chinese population within their armed ranks, this means that when combining the number of party members and army members, you get around 1.5% of the population of China along the tens or hundreds of millions of peasants that supported them, (in Peru, at their peak in 1992 the Senderos only had 50,000 total members of the PCP-SL, 15,000 People's Guerilla Army members, in a country that in 1992 had a population of 22.97 million, so crunching the numbers, the Shining path had around 0.002% of the population as members of their party and 0.0006% as part of their army, they also claimed the most depopulated and least densely populated zones of the countries like the sierras or the jungle, cultural repression didn't do them any favors and they were liberal in their use of violence, leading to the movement imploding after the central leadership was gone and a good deal of it devolving into part-time revolution, largely drug trafficking, as well as peasants rejecting their rule and self-organizing into Rondas (who are not like Freikorps or something, there seems to be confusion about this, if anything they lean slightly left, a quote from their website "No es delito ser progresista, nacionalista, socialista o comunista. >>> "It is not a crime to be a progressive, a nationalist, socialist or communist.

Even here there are massive differences in that China, from 1937-1941 the CPC and KMT forged a truce/alliance and even before then for a while had been also fending off the Japanese, Republican Chinese forces, or puppet governments (and had Soviet backing both during the war, as well as being friendly with them for nearly a decade after establishing the PRC), the Shining Path launched their campaign at a horrible time, given that the military dictatorship times were over and people wished to vote (very popular here for various reasons dating back since the 1800s, we somehow have higher average voter participation than heavy liberal countries like Australia or Belgium), there had been land redistribution campaigns done and feudalism largely abolished back in the 60s and 70s, they more or less just started a war arbitrarily and tried to starve out the cities where the overwhelming majority of the population lived in order to try to accelerate the situation in their favor, which didn't work, people here initially saw them as a nuisance for power outages or dead dogs and later as a menace due to the copious amount of cochebombas (car bombs) and their lack of concern for the people and cultish fanaticism, had they been like the Cubans or something I'm sure it would've gone well, but they were not like that, instead we got a commandist, sectarian butcher cult, and it was all for nothing
>>

 No.354682

>>354462
>on of a bitch, the average age of the country is 30
Are you retarded or just avoiding my point.

No one converted to Gonzaloism. The Shining Path is dead, a glorified drug cartel that can't exist without its leader.
>>

 No.354724

>>354682
I agree with you man lmfao
>>

 No.354788

Looks like someone leaved a bomb in the house of the defense minister, probably disgrunted rightwingers.
https://larepublica.pe/politica/2021/07/03/ministerio-de-defensa-confirman-que-artefacto-explosivo-fue-dejado-en-vivienda-de-ministra-nuria-esparch/
>>

 No.354802

File: 1625378631657-0.png ( 76.95 KB , 589x796 , Peruvians.PNG )

File: 1625378631657-1.png ( 51.55 KB , 600x484 , Peruvians2.PNG )

File: 1625378631657-2.png ( 79.07 KB , 530x823 , Peruvians3.PNG )

>>354087
Callate payaso gringo yanqui
https://twitter.com/DailyGonzalo/status/1406320510024159239
Ven te a Ayacucho y te romperé el cráneo lol
>>

 No.354807

File: 1625378903493.jpg ( 1.33 MB , 1123x1548 , Juan_Guaidó_february_2020.jpg )

Juro asumir formalmente las competencias del Ejecutivo nacional como el presidente encargado del Perú
>>

 No.354817

File: 1625379338311.jpg ( 17.2 KB , 332x386 , it-laugh.jpg )

>>

 No.356575

File: 1625461993513.png ( 351.36 KB , 723x1024 , ClipboardImage.png )

Army destroys ganzaloid camp
>>

 No.356720

>>356575
Cuck succdems killing communists tale as old as time
>>

 No.356810

>>356720
Cojudo yanqui ni siquiera es el presidente todavia, Sendero lo merece
>>

 No.356813

>>356810
So you are in favour a Lib killing communists, even worse. Glow brighter CIA
>>

 No.356822

>>356813
les ein buch amischwein
>>

 No.356841

>>356575
wait what's going on in peru
i thought the crazy left guy won

there's a coup???
>>

 No.356862

>>356813
read the thread, cope
>>

 No.356868

>>356575
>MPCP
not Gonzaloids. Those guys say that Gonzalo is a traitor who surrendered and should be executed for it.
>>

 No.356870

>>356868
Terruco es terruco
>>

 No.356877

>>356870

T. George Bush
>>

 No.356878

>>356822
Literally a Rosa killer
>>

 No.356879

>>356813
bruh just look at >>354802
If some kids now don't like them what makes you think that their parents do? Every time I see some Peruvian online commenting about the Shining Path they always say something negative, the only time I ever see a Gonzaloid is when it's some pasty, deranged white troon online
>>

 No.356882

>>

 No.356889

>>356879
Oh wow some Twitter posts gee

Oh wow amazing this definitely changes the facts, libs literally never talk shit about socialists in Latin America lmao, literally does not happen, the CIA has never manufactured a narrative making a Latin American socialist look bad

>>356882
>if I keep posting the same video over and over it makes it valid

Spoiler, it doesn’t, glow more CIA shitlib
>>

 No.356891

>>356889
>no argument
lmfao
cope and seethe, you're no different from dengoids who ejaculate when they see a red flag, you have no evidence to back up your point of view, lets see a non cherry picked example of Peruvians spouting their support for Sendero Luminoso
>>

 No.356894

>>356891
In fact you are right, maybe there should be some kind of idk, war on terror in order to get rid of these evil communist terrorists
>>

 No.356897

>you don’t have any proof
>he says
>posting Twitter caps as proof
Lmao, libs, why b they like this?
>>

 No.356902

>>356897
cope
>>356894
Evidently, that's why a hardline neoliberal with fascist characteristics party has held power for the past 30 odd years and why Peru had no pink wave, the fact that Castillo narrowly won is a testament to how spooked Peruvians are of even mild socdems lol
>>

 No.356909

>>356897
"In June 1991, "the total sample disapproved of the Shining Path by an 83 to 7 percent margin, with 10 percent not answering the question. Among the poorest, however, only 58% stated disapproval of the Shining Path; 11 percent said they had a favorable opinion of the Shining Path, and some 31 percent would not answer the question."[45] A September 1991 poll found that 21 percent of those polled in Lima believed that the Shining Path did not torture and kill innocent people. The same poll found that 13% believed that society would be more just if the Shining Path won the war and 22% believed society would be equally just under the Shining Path as it was under the government."
Kenney, Charles D. 2004. Fujimori's Coup and the Breakdown of Democracy in Latin America.
"Una inquietante encuesta de opinión."
inb4 Leyes anti-terrorista, esas se agregaron enla nueva constitucion de 1993
Que dices gringo?
>>

 No.356911

>>356720
No matter what you think of Gonzalo and the old PCP, the "Militarized Communist Party of Peru" led by Víctor Quispe Palomino are an insane ultra group even by MLM Gonzaloist standards.
>>

 No.356917

>>356889
<he says, keenly unaware that those libs are Peruvian and he's not, so their opinion actually matters and his doesn't
kek'd
>>

 No.356928

>tfw you go to any media vaguely related the civil war online and you'll see a torrent of comments from Peruvian users condemning the SP but some white teenagers think they've got it all figured out
>>

 No.356931

>>356897
take a peak at the comments, still waiting on any sort of substance behind your position btw lol
>>

 No.356947

>>356897
Soviet Union aided/sold weapons to the Peruvian Government since 1982, the DPRK did too, seethe ultra lmfao
>>

 No.356981

Gonzaloids ITT again huh lol? When will you uyghas understand that if your groups had the adequate support they would've won by now, instead of arguably being further from power now than when they started. In Peru, the Philippines, and India the "PPW" have been "raging" for 40+ years and are still fruitless, these are not successful. No one knows the specifics of how much support they've got, what percentage of support is necessary is academic, but whatever the level is, it's higher than what they have or had. All they'd succeeded in doing is getting borderline-fascists in power in their respectively countries because they're premature struggles. War is not an end in and of itself, it is a means to an end, and if the end is not even close in any of the countries (and let's be real here, it never was, no, capturing precious jungle and 3-4k tall mountain ranges from no one is not gains because the vast majority of the population is in the cities, and they were for decades prior to the armed struggle, more urbanized during it, and more keep urbanizing) then the struggle only serves for the media to shit on you endlessly and alienates you from the people
>>

 No.357184

>>356889
glow more CIA anglo
>>

 No.357189

>>338522
>Allende
>Narco dictatorship

Maximum cope. Go back to reddit on /r/neoliberal where ya belong.
>>

 No.357219

>>356868
>>356889
I keep wondering how many successful revolutions these ultras are able to run in their countries.
>>

 No.357269

>>357219
cont.
But not only a successful one, but also a successful violent one.
>>

 No.357404

>>357219
https://www.reddit.com/r/InformedTankie/comments/m9lfr4/maoism_socialrevolutionary_primitiveness/gs5lj9b/
Excellent post by FrogsKnecht on reddit, I'm not a hardline Dengist, but I'd say """Maoism""" is much worse because they don't even have data to argue with, they just
1. Deny anything and everything
2. Have no sources for anything, claim that any and all of your sources are CIA propaganda and that broke ass Peruvian peasants were given cash by the FBI to lie about the Shining Path despite video evidence of human remains and a documentary existing about Lucanamarca
3. Somehow don't know that most Indians or Filipinos either are weary of or simply don't give a shit/don't know about their insurgencies due to how statistically insignificant these movements are, and that these people are most likely pretty damned reactionary, given that they keep voting in neoliberals or borderline fascists, and in Peru, actively dislike the Shining Path so much that even socdems have trouble winning elections against obviously corrupt, hardline neoliberal quasi-fascists
>>

 No.357434

>>356902
>he thinks Twitter screw caps are proof, still

>>356909
What are you quoting here? You realise quoting something and not posting where you quoted it from isn’t proof?

>>356911
You think every group is an insane ultra group apart from cuckdems tho why would I trust you

>>356931
>look at my YouTube comments
How about I look at burger YouTube comments about the Soviet Union lmao you libs are a hooot

>>356947
>Soviet Union
>1982
Round about the time deng China was selling arms to the contras, and the Soviet Union was refusing to help Nicaragua, and had just couped grenada causing the collapse of the socialist government there.

Lmao, you dengoids literally don’t have a clue about history.

>>356981
No Fujimorist Lib has posted any single source you realise, they’ve said numbers sure, but not a single source

>>357219
China.

>>357404
>an excellent Reddit post
Ahahahahaha. Please sell more weapons to the Contras and continue to build Israeli ports dengkiddie. Reddit is a glow hive
>>

 No.357437

>>357404
>le lucanamara
Lmao, you literally just believe anti communist lies, here is the truth about the civil war in Peru:

Just thought I'd throw these sources in here into a slower thread so they can be on hand for when the
>muh baby boiler
brigade show up again:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2053168018820375

>The Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) in Peru is usually cited as an example of how capture–recapture methods can help improve our understanding of mass violence from incomplete observed data. Using 25,000 documented death records, the TRC estimated a total of 69,000 killings, and that the Shining Path was the main perpetrator, in contrast with the raw data where the Peruvian State appears to be responsible for the most killings. One feature not often noticed is that the TRC applied an unusual indirect procedure, combining data on different perpetrators and lumping together missing perpetrator data in one group. I show that direct estimations with strict stratification by perpetrator and accounting for missing data do not support the results of the TRC’s indirect approach. I estimate a total of 48,000 killings, substantially lower than the TRC estimate, and the Peruvian State accounts for a significantly larger share than the Shining Path. Rather than an example of correcting biases in the observed data through capture–recapture methods, the TRC actually introduced further distortion.


https://oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780199366439.001.0001/acrefore-9780199366439-e-495

>Even after President Alejandro Toledo increased the number of commissioners to twelve from seven (adding Ames, Arias, Lay, Antúndez, Morote, and the observer Bambarén), the commissioners still reflected elite sectors of Peru least affected by the violence. All were residents of Lima, all were urban dwellers, only one spoke Quechua, only one understood it, and none self-identified as Indigenous or campesino. As Commissioner Carlos Iván Degregori later commented, “even the composition of the CVR reflected the gaps in the country” that underlay the political violence


>It is crucial to remember that survivors of the violence made decisions about what they would and would not share with the CVR. Anthropologist Kimberly Theidon observed that in many rural Ayacucho communities devastated by the violence, campesinos held local assemblies prior to the arrival of the CVR’s testimonial teams. At those assemblies, community authorities decided what local residents should say and what they should leave unsaid, lest some community members’ initial support for Shining Path militants somehow cast the community as less deserving of reparations. As Theidon notes, “There was an effort to close narrative ranks, prompted by the many secrets people keep about a lengthy fratricidal conflict and the numerous expectations a commission generates.”


>The CVR also conducted interviews with more than one thousand leaders and rank-and-file members of the Shining Path and MRTA. Commissioners decided against allowing any of these individuals to participate in the public hearings,


>Politicians from the period, including former president Alan García, gave testimonies and participated in public hearings.


>Some have also argued that the CVR was too narrow in its focus, upset that the Final Report did not highlight their communities’ experiences or investigate their claims. Others contend that the CVR should have discussed the forced sterilizations carried out by the Fujimori government’s Family Planning Program. Those sterilizations of over two hundred thousand predominantly impoverished women of Indigenous descent occurred without informed consent and sometimes against the women’s will, often with grave health consequences
>>

 No.358137

>>357434
>>357437
Lmao, gonzaloites are still battling their defense of the fourth sword of marxism.
That the CVR isn't the holy grail is not new. I read that paper long ago and it tracks the hypocrisy of the state in their reparation policy (that until now 2021 is flimsy, and the reparations are still going).

That doesn't make the gonzaloids better and their massacres nonexistant. And there is no historical analysis that supports them. Hell, even people like Eric Hobsbawm condemed them.
>>

 No.358194

>>357437
Also noting that in this thread nobody mentioned the CVR, you are just triying to cover the sun with a finger.
>>

 No.358213

>>357434
>he thinks Twitter screw caps are proof, still
Yes, the opinions of actual Peruvian people are important for a Peruvian matter, I challenge you to find any Peruvians saying anything positive about them without cherryp picking
>What are you quoting here?"
Americans are becoming blind, right there at the bottom
>no argument
Several statistics suggesting that the ex-Soviet people liked the Soviet Union, same cannot be said for the Shining Path and Peruvians
>Non-sequitur about China
The Sandinistas warranted the Iran-Contra affair, and THE FUCKING US INVADED GRENADA YOU DUMBASS LMFAO
>China
Chinese Revolution was ML or ML-MZT, Mao was not a Maoist, he did not uphold what Maoists today say is universal, he adapted ML to the Chinese material conditions, the same way Lenin and the Bolchevique revolution were not Marxist-Leninist, you could at best argue that the earliest Maoists appeared after the PRC was established, but the revolution itself was ML

<"At its height in mid-1992, it was believed that Shining Path had between 3,000 and 4,000 armed cadres and 50,000 supporters in various civilian support groups and political cadres…"

>When All The Evils Come Together, Pablo G. Dreyfus. page 378

<50,000/492,507 (Supporters/Ayacucho Department Population in 1993)=0.10 or 10% of the population of Ayacucho Department Population, 50,000/22,693,443 (Supporters/Total Peruvian Census in 1993)=0.002 or 0.2% of the total Peruvian population in that year, remember that this was their peak, 1992/1993

>https://www.inei.gob.pe/estadisticas/indice-tematico/population/ "Población total, censada y omitida, según año censal" "Población censada, según departamento y año censal" Microsoft Excel or https://sheet.zoho.com/sheet/excelviewer

<Officially more than 50% urbanized in 1964, at the beginning of the armed struggle in 1980 urbanization in Peru was at 65% and by 2000, the end of the major conflict, it had become 73%, by 2020 it was 78%, for reference, a country like Germany is 77% urbanized

>https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.URB.TOTL.IN.ZS?locations=PE https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.URB.TOTL.IN.ZS?locations=DE
<Chinese Civil War was fought in a country that was 80~90% percent non-urbanized "In 1949, around 80 per cent of the Chinese population is rural. Lacking capital to invest in modern machinery the government decides organising human labour is key to China’s development and begins introducing a system of communes in 1958 to harness the rural labour force to stimulate agricultural and industrial productivity. Each commune is made up of smaller farm collectives and consists of 4,000–5,000 households, while larger communes could encompass up to 20,000 households.", even in 1980 only about 20% of the Chinese population was urbanized, Gonzalo attempted to graft this onto a country with nearly opposite urban:unurban ratios disastrously, and as you can see, during the Peruvian conflict, almost 10% of the population fled to the cities, meaning that about 1/3 of the supposed base left them dry
>https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10225706.2018.1476256 Table 1 https://multimedia.scmp.com/infographics/news/china/article/3139331/ccp-100year-anniversary/index.html

<Gonzalo openly admitted to and expressed no real criticism of the Lucanamarca massacre

>"In the face of reactionary military actions… we responded with a devastating action: Lucanamarca. Neither they nor we have forgotten it, to be sure, because they got an answer that they didn’t imagine possible. More than 80 were annihilated, that is the truth. And we say openly that there were excesses, as was analyzed in 1983. But everything in life has two aspects. Our task was to deal a devastating blow in order to put them in check, to make them understand that it was not going to be so easy. On some occasions, like that one, it was the Central Leadership itself that planned the action and gave instructions. That’s how it was. In that case, the principal thing is that we dealt them a devastating blow, and we checked them and they understood that they were dealing with a different kind of people’s fighters, that we weren’t the same as those they had fought before. This is what they understood. The excesses are the negative aspect… If we were to give the masses a lot of restrictions, requirements and prohibitions, it would mean that deep down we didn’t want the waters to overflow. And what we needed was for the waters to overflow, to let the flood rage, because we know that when a river floods its banks it causes devastation, but then it returns to its riverbed…. [T]he main point was to make them understand that we were a hard nut to crack, and that we were ready for anything, anything." https://web.archive.org/web/20071108165711/http://www.blythe.org/peru-pcp/docs_en/interv.htm
<Watch and read these to educate yourself, the above is demonstrative of commandism
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms0a7lA_l0Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhzifV9AjAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibtw0okgU3w Lucanamarca: Memorias de Nuestro Pueblo https://lum.cultura.pe/cdi/sites/default/files/rb/pdf/Lucanamarca%20Memorias%20de%20nuestro%20pueblo__(p1-150).PDF

<Shining Path was largely comprised of white and mestizo members, Central Commitee was largely very light skinned, most cadre were most likely petit-bourgeois mixed or white college kids, not indigenous people, who were largely relegated to farming and didn't have access to upper education, race and class are more or less one and the same in Latin America

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6hFiLlV7nI https://peru.com/actualidad/mi-ciudad/procuraduria-embarga-oficina-martha-huatay-abogada-sendero-luminoso-noticia-91351
<"The data set compiled by the Turth Commission shows that a minority of the 921 inmates had an indigenous mother tongue (29 percent in the Shining Path, 14 percent in the MRTA) (CVR 2003a, statistical annex, dataset dec_pen_est) although the percentage of Sendero's inmates with an indigenous first language was higher than in the general population (29 percent vs. 19 percent)."
>Civil Wars and their Consequences, The Peruvian Armed Conflict in Comparative Perspective, Livia Isabella Schubinger & David Sulmont. page 60
<Regarding the language or language with which they learned to speak in their childhood, 63.6% of people aged 5 and over stated that it was with Quechua, 35.6% Spanish, 0.1% the Aymara, among the main ones. At the provincial level, in Vilcas Huamán 91.7%, Cangallo 90.6%, Víctor Fajardo 87.1%, Huanca Sancos 84.0%, Sucre 82.1% and La Mar 78.6%, the majority learned to speak in his childhood with Quechua. In Lucanas 47.6%, Paucar del Sara Sara 43.9%, Huamanga 43.6% and Parinacochas 43.5% with Spanish. Responding to the census question on ethnic self-identification, applied to the population over 12 years of age, 81.2% recognize themselves as Quechua, 13.1% as mestizo, 2.0% as white and 0.8% as black, brown, zambo, mulatto / Afro-Peruvian or Afro-descendant people.
>http://censo2017.inei.gob.pe/censos-2017-departamento-de-ayacucho-cuenta-con-616-176-habitantes/

<Alberto Fujimori ran on a right-populist and "tough on terrorism" campaign in 1990, you can see how from there on out both the president and congress are completely filled with almost pure neoliberals, even during the "Pink Tide," and just recently, a mild socdem, Pedro Castillo, only won by 0.26% against Fujimori's daughter, who is essentially just a political clone

Peru also has rather high election turnout at 82.27%, placing above liberal countries like Sweden, Australia or Denmark where you'd expect such shit, 97% of the population voted in 2000, so the "Voting no, People's War Yes" evidently didn't really get through to the population, demonstrating how they weren't really into the whole movement to begin with
>https://www.electionguide.org/countries/id/170/ https://www.electionguide.org/countries/id/170/
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Peruvian_general_election

<I implore you to either look up anything vaguely related to the conflict or to come over here yourself, as plane tickets are cheap, and attempt to ask people (like the man in the videos) about the conflict, and I guarantee you that 99.99% of the time, we will have something negative to say about Sendero



>"No, don't support these states the imperial core has sanctioned in the past and heavily propagandizes against, instead, support statistically insignificant premature terrorist groups that their respective countries are either apathetic or antagonistic towards who have all voted in fascists to wage a low-effort war that keeps them at bay for 40+ years!!!!!" Ah yes, not the states which are fear mongered about, but irrelevant (even in their own countries) terrorist groups surely must be the ones that are not CIA, that's why they preach a sectarian and dogmatic message and isolate themselves while not making gains for several decades in any form



>"HAHAA YOU THOUGHT YOU HAD IT, WELL IF YOU SHIFT AROUND SOME NUMBERS THEY DIDN'T ACTUALLY KILL 45% OF THOSE IN THE CONFLICT, BUT AKSHUALLY 38% GOTCHA LIBERAL(I'm going to pretend like Peruvian people also totally care about this and even know about this study)"


>the CVR was flawed

Alright, fair point, but do you have a better source? Would love to see it
>"It is crucial to remember that survivors of the violence made decisions about what they would and would not share with the CVR."
I am shocked, that's unfathomable, I never knew that poor people would make decisions based upon how much they would benefit materially off of their choices. By the way, no one is denying that they did or did not have initial support in some places of Peru, it would be expected that any movement that promises the moon and seems roughly competent initially will succeed, but given that they failed overall and Gonzalo will die in the jail he has been in since 1992, what are you going to do? Force the peasants to confess how they opted for a movement that seemed good in the moment given their situation but ended up fucking up (something they could not control). This goes into the realm of unfalsifiability and making assumptions, when all you're getting out of them is what they said.
>"b-b-but if you don't like my pet group in a country I couldn't point out that means you must love Fujimori"
No lmfao, but cool attempt at deflection and tu quoque, it doesn't work on non-schizos though

It's been said by others, and I think many would be inclined to agree, that the modern day "Maoist" movement, i.e. adherents to the school of "Marxism-Leninism-Maoism", which preaches the cultural revolution, and so forth (we will study their characteristics in a moment), is the reflection of the Trotskyist movement of the past; dogmatic and revisionist at the same time, preaching both economism and terrorism, flaunting revolutionary slogans while stubbornly – at times proudly – submitting to subordination by bourgeois interests and ideology. Whereas the Trotskyists of the past decried "Neither the USA, nor Soviet Union!" the "Maoists" of today protest, "Neither the USA, nor China!"

"Maoism" vs Mao-Zedong-Thought: More Than Semantics

To begin with, I want to briefly dispel confusion that often arises over this subject. It isn't necessary to dwell here, but this is a distinction which many comrades mistake as mere semantics, a difference over name, and not a definite difference within the ideological makeup of these two movements.

Mao-Zedong-Thought (MZT) is the official ideology of the Communist Party of China (CPC). It is in main a system of study, upholding such principles as "No investigation, no right to speak" and "Seek truth from facts". It remains the official ideology of the CPC along with Marxism-Leninism. Adherents to MZT refer to themselves merely as Marxist-Leninists, or MLs.

Maoism, or Marxism-Leninism-Maoism (MLM) is an ideology which was first synthesized by the Peruvian revolutionary/terrorist Abimael Guzmán, also called Chairman Gonzalo, in the latter part of the 1900s. It upholds such principles as the universality of the "Protracted People's War" (PPW), and the "Cultural Revolution"; however, Maoists – especially those leading figures in Maoist thought, Chairman Gonzalo, Joma Sison, and so forth – insist in their adherence not only to Maoism, but to Mao-Zedong-Thought as an integral part of Maoism.

It is also important to note that, while Maoists do adhere to these principles as a general rule, they do not always support the people who thought of them: not every Maoist is fond of Gonzalo, for instance; I will touch on that in a minute. Whether or not this is the case, though, it is still important to make a distinction between Maoists who do this, and MLs who adhere to Mao-Zedong-Thought.

What is 'Social-Revolutionary Primitiveness?'

Lenin described revolutionary primitiveness briefly but accurate in What is to be Done?:

We have noted that the entire student youth of the period was absorbed in Marxism. Of course, these students were not only, or even not so much, interested in Marxism as a theory; they were interested in it as an answer to the question, “What is to be done?”, as a call to take the field against the enemy. These new warriors marched to battle with astonishingly primitive equipment and training. In a vast number of cases they had almost no equipment and absolutely no training. They marched to war like peasants from the plough, armed only with clubs. A students’ circle establishes contacts with workers and sets to work, without any connection with the old members of the movement, without any connection with study circles in other districts, or even in other parts of the same city, without any organisation of the various divisions of revolutionary work, without any systematic plan of activity covering any length of time.

True, from the historical point of view, the primitiveness of equipment was not only inevitable at first, but even legitimate as one of the conditions for the wide recruiting of fighters, but as soon as serious war operations began, the defects in our fighting organisations made themselves felt to an ever-increasing degree. The government, at first thrown into confusion and committing a number of blunders, very soon adapted itself to the new conditions of the struggle and managed to deploy well its perfectly equipped detachments of agents provocateurs, spies, and gendarmes. Raids became so frequent, affected such a vast number of people, and cleared out the local study circles so thoroughly that the masses of the workers lost literally all their leaders, the movement assumed an amazingly sporadic character, and it became utterly impossible to establish continuity and coherence in the work. The terrible dispersion of the local leaders; the fortuitous character of the study circle memberships; the lack of training in, and the narrow outlook on, theoretical, political, and organisational questions were all the inevitable result of the conditions described above. Things have reached such a pass that in several places the workers, because of our lack of self-restraint and the inability to maintain secrecy, begin to lose faith in the intellectuals and to avoid them; the intellectuals, they say, are much too careless and cause police raids!

We will see that these very errors, this exact primitiveness, has plagued nearly every Maoist movement in existence, and doomed it to fail. Rather astonishingly, we can see this exact mistake being made without shame by the Maoist Communist Party of the Philippines (CPP) and New People's Army (NPA), together the CPP-NPA. Let's investigate their statement, Great Achievements of the CPP in 50 Years of Waging Revolution:

The NPA is the main weapon of the people for defeating the enemy and winning the revolution. Without it, the people have nothing. It carries out three integral tasks: revolutionary armed struggle, agrarian revolution and mass base building…

Under the direction of the CPP, the broad united front has twice succeeded in overthrowing the reactionary regime. First, it succeeded in fighting, undermining and overthrowing the Marcos fascist dictatorship from 1972 to 1986 and in ousting the corrupt Estrada regime in 2001. Even without as yet deploying units of the people army in the cities aside from armed city partisans, the broad masses of the people rose up to show their hatred for the ruling clique and subsequently the reactionary armed forces refused to follow orders to attack the people but decided to withdraw support from the hated ruler.

What we have here is the blatant admission not only that they see the armed forces of the party, and not the party itself, as the "main weapon of the people for winning the revolution", but also the admission that they are waging a struggle without the support of the proletariat. That the "units in the cities" are not "yet deployed aside from armed partisans", but the "broad masses of people" have risen up – does this not mean that the CPP-NPA, these Maoists, are completely alienated from the movement they represent? Either the proletariat has risen up, in which case the "city units" should be as well, or the proletariat has not risen up, in which case – why has the party?

In essence, they have declared themselves merely a spontaneous peasant uprising, and by their own analysis have rendered their armed struggle mere terrorism.

Let us take Lenin in Revolutionary Adventurism:

We are not repeating the terrorists’ mistakes and are not diverting attention from work among the masses, the Socialist-Revolutionaries assure us, and at the same time enthusiastically recommend to the Party acts such as Balmashov’s assassination of Sipyagin, although everyone knows and sees perfectly well that this act was in no way connected with the masses and, moreover, could not have been by reason of the very way in which it was carried out—that the persons who committed this terrorist act neither counted on nor hoped for any definite action or support on the part of the masses. In their naïveté, the Socialist-Revolutionaries do not realise that their predilection for terrorism is causally most intimately linked with the fact that, from the very outset, they have always kept, and still keep, aloof from the working-class movement, without even attempting to become a party of the revolutionary class which is waging its class struggle. Over-ardent protestations very often lead one to doubt and suspect the worth of whatever it is that requires such strong seasoning. Do not these protestations weary them?

I think this describes our Maoist friends most perfectly. Why such strong protestations about the "rising masses" when your "city units" are "not yet deployed"? Why such enthusiastic proclamations about the armed struggle, about captured weaponry, about assassinated policemen, when the proletariat are not only passive, but even weary, and when it is clear that these actions are the will of a few petit-bourgeois intellectuals who think they know what's best for the working class, and not the actions of the working class itself?

There is distinct historical precedent for this. To understand our modern "comrades", we must explore the case of the Socialist-Revolutionaries, the left party in Russia that opposed the Bolsheviks on the grounds that the Bolsheviks were too passive, and too conciliatory towards capitalism and the bourgeoisie.

The Socialist-Revolutionaries (SRs), were, in a sense, the original Maoist movement. True, they predate even Mao himself. But, much like Mao first learned his political consciousness from the likes of Kropotkin and other anarchist theory before he made the change to sincere revolutionary marxism, the SRs found their roots in the peasant Narodniki of the century prior, a rural anarchist movement which in particular highlighted the terrorist struggle as a means to liberation.

What reason do we have for studying the SRs? Because their class-interests and class-composition, the very essence of every political movement, is identical to that of the modern "Maoist" movement. Citing again Revolutionary Adventurism by Lenin:

The revolutionary movement continues to grow with amazing rapidity—and “our trends” are ripening. On the other hand, trends expressing only the traditional instability of views held by the intermediate and indefinite sections of the intelligentsia try to substitute noisy declarations for rapprochement with definite classes, declarations which are all the noisier, the louder the thunder of events. “At least we make an infernal noise”—such is the slogan of many revolutionarily minded individuals who have been caught up in the maelstrom of events and who have neither theoretical principles nor social roots.

It is to these “noisy” trends that the “Socialist-Revolutionaries,” whose physiognomy is emerging more and more clearly, also belong. And it is high time for the proletariat to have a better look at this physiognomy, and form a clear idea of the real nature of these people, who seek the proletariat’s friendship all the more persistently, the more palpable it becomes to them that they cannot exist as a separate trend without close ties with the truly revolutionary class of society.

We will see it very clear, if not undeniable, that the "Maoists" of today belong to this particular group of petit-bourgeois intellectuals, who are aware their existence lies entirely on their culpability to the growing revolutionary movement, and who try in vain to attach themselves to this movement and, as a result, appeal to the only class of small-proprietors who's interests align with the petit-bourgeoisie's: the peasantry. ​

Maoism's Socialist-Revolutionary Take on Peasantry

Characteristic of these petit-bourgeois intellectuals, from the Socialist-Revolutionaries to the CPP-NPA (Philippines), is their intentional marring of the distinction between peasant and proletarian. Through this slight of hand, they then attempt, as petit-bourgeois – a class which historically shares many of the same characteristics, interests, and even social relations as the peasantry – to disguise themselves as this mangled "proletarian-peasant", which exists only as a mask used to subvert the interests of the working movement to petit-bourgeois liberalism, to anarchy in production.

The Social-Democrats [Bolsheviks, in this case] maintained that the proletariat and the peasantry were distinct classes in capitalist (or semi-feudal, semi-capitalist) society; that the peasantry is a class of petty proprietors that can “strike together” against the landlords and the autocracy, “on the same side of the barricades” with the proletariat in the bourgeois revolution, and that in this revolution it can, in certain cases, march in “alliance” with the proletariat, while remaining quite a separate class of capitalist society. The Socialist-Revolutionaries denied this. The main idea in their programme was not that an “alliance of the forces” of the proletariat and the peasantry was necessary, but that there was no class gulf between them, that no class distinction should be drawn between them, and that the Social-Democratic idea concerning the petty-bourgeois character of the peasantry, as distinct from the proletariat, is utterly false.

On what grounds do we have for claiming the Maoists of today repeat this mistake?

Since the "Maoist" movement is not one distinct movement, but several, oftentimes opposing movements, it can be difficult to pinpoint exactly what Maoists believe. As per dialectics, it is important we take things not only as they currently exist, i.e. their form; we need to analyze their essence, the origins of the movement, the trends it exhibits, and where its developing towards. As such, we will study first an example of this Socialist-Revolutionary mistake being repeated by none other than Chairman Gonzalo, the ideological founder of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism as the one who "synthesized" Mao's teachings with those of Marx and Lenin.

Something important to note: not all Maoists support the Shining Path in its actions, per se, seeing as so many of them are quite literally impossible to defend. Room must be made for the usual pseudo-denunciations. But the modern Maoist movement unmistakably bears the stamp of Gonzalo's influence as the founder of this movement, in particular due to his role as the founder of the Revolutionary Internationalist Movement (a sort of Maoist 4th International), which states in its founding decleration:

The parties and organisations of our Movement and RIM as a whole have been engaged in revolutionary struggle against imperialism and reaction. Most important has been the advanced experience of the People's War led by the Communist Party of Peru which has succeeded in mobilising the masses in their millions, sweeping aside the state in many parts of the country and establishing the power of the workers and peasants in these areas.

Bearing in mind the unmistakable ideological, if not material, influence Gonzalo had over the RIM, it is important to study the viewpoint from which the Maoists originate:

EL DIARIO: How do the workers and peasants participate in the People's Guerrilla Army?

CHAIRMAN GONZALO: The peasantry, especially the poor peasants, are the main participants, as fighters and commanders at different levels in the People's Guerrilla Army. The workers participate in the same ways, although the percentage of workers at this time is insufficient.source

In just two sentences Gonzalo himself has revealed the bare truth: that the Shining Path is primarily a peasant movement, and not a worker movement. That such a movement would be the result of a petit-bourgeois intellectual, the founder of a Maoist debate club that eventually abandoned the university and took up arms, is no surprise. Further, Gonzalo damns himself horribly when he says:

In the economic base, under the New Power we are establishing new relations of production. A concrete example of this is how we apply the land policy, utilizing collective work, and the organization of social life according to a new reality, with a joint dictatorship where for the first time workers, peasants and progressives rule–understanding this to mean those who want to transform this country by the only means possible–people's war.

I say he damns himself horribly because, as it would turn out, Lenin attacked these exact words almost a century in advance:

To counter Marx’s doctrine that there is only one really revolutionary class in modern society, the Socialist-Revolutionaries advance the trinity: “the intelligentsia, the proletariat, and the peasantry,” thereby revealing a hope less confusion of concepts.

It is this very mistake that Gonzalo, as well as his party, the Shining Path – and with them, all other "Maoist" parties to date, from the CPP-NPA in the Philippines to the original Maoist Red Guards even – have repeated without hesitation or reflection.

What is the error? It is that, due to their nature as petit-bourgeois intellectuals, who have no bearing or relation to the actual working class movement, they find sympathy for their individualistic posturing, their self-interested pseudo-socialism, only in the peasant class which historically provides the basis for petit-bourgeois ideology. The petit-bourgeoisie are, historically speaking, urban peasants, and the majority of peasantry are the rural petit-bourgeoisie.

Maoists cannot bear a society wherein the proletariat is truly given supremacy. They need to hide their subversion of the dictatorship of the proletariat, their subordination of the proletariat to petit-bourgeois interests, by disguising the petit-bourgeoisie as peasants, and the peasants as proletarians. We see a similar trick played by CPP-NPA's "Joma" Sison, when he says:

In the national united front, the proletariat and the Party rely mainly on the basic alliance of the workers and peasants, to win over the urban petty bourgeoisie.

Note, it is not the peasants who must rely on the alliance for guidance, no; it is the proletarians and their party who must rely mainly on it. And to do what? To win over the urban petty bourgeoisie, in other words, to appeal exactly to the interests of petit-bourgeois intellectuals like Sison himself!

Protracted People's War: Maoism and the 'Universal Applicability of Violence'

We are approaching now the biggest topic in regards to this matter. The one tactic/principle which finds itself remunerated in all Maoist movements, to such an extent that it may be the defining characteristic of Maoism, is the Protracted People's War (PPW) as a universally applicable method of struggle.

What is the Protracted People's War? This question will prove elusive. For Mao, it meant something very specific: the people's war was the method of combining guerilla struggle, done by willing partisans and supporters of the Communist Party, and conventional struggle, done by the PLA. The tactic was useful because, in China, where the CPC had garnered overwhelming support among rural peasants, and had its urban based members massacred by the Goumindang, it allowed the proletarian armies to seemingly disappear into the countryside, where they could reorganize before attempting to mount offensives.

Why did this strategy do so well in China? There are a couple reasons, in main:

It was a defensive tactic, prompted at first by the massacre of CPC by Goumindang, and then prompted by the Japanese invasion, and then prompted once more by another attempt at massacre by the Goumindang. It relied on the enemy making mistakes, acting out of retaliation, inflicting terror and thus turning the population against it, etc. What modern Maoists too often fail to understand is that this was not formulated as a universal solution to the seizure of state power.

China at the time, owing to its lack of development and huge landscape, had no fast transportation between the various cities. This meant that it was possible to isolate the cities so that they could not receive outside support, and then coordinate with the communists already in the cities. The favorable conditions enjoyed by Chinese revolutionaries at the time were very specific, and very hard to come by. It is arguable that no such society exists today where the cities can be cut off in such a way by guerilla armies, owing to the existence of high-speed travel and long-distance instant communication.

The CPC already had a large base of support when it picked up the armed struggle. It was not a mere clique of revolutionaries, who decided that the armed struggle was ready to be taken up and who promptly picked up their rifles and headed to the countryside. The party spent years of slow, steady preperation, building the consciousness of the masses, and collaborating with the Goumindang before the massacre and subsequent fleeing to the countryside, where they already enjoyed a sympathetic population.

The CPC, under People's War, practiced guerilla warfare, not terrorism. In cases where the political consciousness of the masses was not yet high enough to wage an armed campaign, they conducted a political struggle in order to educate the masses on why this was necessary. But they did not press the masses into armed struggle before they were ready to commit to it:

All work done for the masses must start from their needs and not from the desire of any individual, however well-intentioned. It often happens that objectively the masses need a certain change, but subjectively they are not yet conscious of the need, not yet willing or determined to make the change. In such cases, we should wait patiently. We should not make the change until, through our work, most of the masses have become conscious of the need and are willing and determined to carry it out. Otherwise we shall isolate ourselves from the masses. Unless they are conscious and willing, any kind of work that requires their participation will turn out to be a mere formality and will fail.source

How, then, was the "protracted people's war" applied in Maoist movements since, and how well does it conform to Mao's own definition of just what this war should entail?

CHAIRMAN GONZALO: With regard to violence we start from the principle established by Chairman Mao Tsetung: violence, that is the need for revolutionary violence, is a universal law with no exception. Revolutionary violence is what allows us to resolve fundamental contradictions by means of an army, through people's war… The way we see this question is that when Chairman Mao Tsetung established the theory of people's war and put it into practice, he provided the proletariat with its military line, with a military theory and practice that is universally valid and therefore applicable everywhere in accordance with the concrete conditions.

This is blatantly untrue from a Marxist standpoint. It was Lenin who did best to trample the phrasemongering peddled by petit-bourgeois intellectuals and show it for what it really was: blient subservience to failure. As he states in The Importance Of Gold Now And After The Complete Victory Of Socialism:

True revolutionaries will perish (not that they will be defeated from outside, but that their work will suffer internal collapse) only if they abandon their sober outlook and take it into their heads that the “great, victorious, world” revolution can and must solve all problems in a revolutionary manner under all circumstances and in all spheres of action. If they do this, their doom is certain.

What grounds are there for assuming that the “great, victorious, world” revolution can and must employ only revolutionary methods? There are none at all. The assumption is a pure fallacy; this can be proved by purely theoretical propositions if we stick to Marxism. The experience of our revolution also shows that it is a fallacy… We must try to do as few foolish things as possible, and rectify those that are done as quickly as possible, and we must, as soberly as we can, estimate which problems can be solved by revolutionary methods at any given time and which cannot. From the point of view of our practical experience the Brest peace was an example of action that was not revolutionary at all; it was reformist, and even worse, because it was a retreat. The proof that our tactics in concluding the Brest peace were correct is now so complete, so obvious to all and generally admitted, that there is no need to say any more about it.

Violence is not a universally applicable principle, which solves all things. And, though I've taken care not to allow this analysis to devolve into the usual incessant reminders of the horrible atrocities committed by the Shining Path under Gonzalo, and by the CPP-NPA in the Philippines, and so forth, I think it's important to note the very clearly admirative tone Gonzalo takes towards violence, as if its some sort of key he's found to all political problems. He shows this especially clearly in this following:

We see the problem of war this way: war has two aspects, destructive and constructive. Construction is the principal aspect. Not to see it this way undermines the revolution–weakens it.

How could such a blatantly untrue be argued? That war is principally constructive – says who? What does war construct, aside from means of destruction?

War is loathed by the masses, both revolutionary and reactionary. That does not mean the masses cannot be moved to warfare, to civil war and revolution, or that the masses always reject war as a solution: but war is destructive, it has a destructive effect on social relations, leading them to revert to primitive forms, and to attempt to whitewash war as "constructive" is to demonstrate a serious disconnect between the petit-bourgeois intellectual Gonzalo and the actual proletarian masses; it's to display a view only able to be held by a petit-bourgeois who stands to gain from war.

Again, it's hard to elaborate on the theoretical positions of Maoists since there is so little thereotical substance to their movement, owing to the fact that it is mostly a movement of phrase-mongering, of sloganeering, and intellectuals flaunting obscure books by Chinese-American professors at any curious onlookers and shrieking at them about revisionism.

The Fruits of Maoism

Having investigated the theoretical positions of Maoists, we now must investigate where these theoretical positions inevitably lead. Dialectics holds that time is, after all, always moving, and thus, it is inevitable for every movement to pass through its various stages of development. And history has shown, without fail, that the Maoist movement has been thoroughly unsuccessful in every regard at realizing the supremacy of the proletariat, that the Maoist movement has devolved in every instance to, at the best, a group of irrelevant intellectuals, and at worst, a terrorist movement kicking and screaming against destruction.

Gonzalo and his Shining Path ended in spectacular failure. Whereas Gonzalo screeched blue the validity of his conclusion on Mao's theories, he would eventaully find himself in prison by the turn of the 2000s, with the Shining Path existing only as various copycat groups using the old name. Among other terrorist attacks, the Tarata Bombing demonstrated the Shining Path's clear inability to reconcile the interests of the petit-bourgeoisie and peasantry with the truly revolutionary class, the proletariat. Similarly, the Lucanamarca attack showed the Shining Path was not the party of the peasantry, but a party intending to subvert it. Guzman not only confessed to the attack, but defended it.

In the face of reactionary military actions… we responded with a devastating action: Lucanamarca. Neither they nor we have forgotten it, to be sure, because they got an answer that they didn't imagine possible. More than 80 were annihilated, that is the truth. the principal thing is that we dealt them a devastating blow, and we checked them and they understood that they were dealing with a different kind of people's fighters, that we weren't the same as those they had fought before. This is what they understood. The excesses are the negative aspect… If we were to give the masses a lot of restrictions, requirements and prohibitions, it would mean that deep down we didn't want the waters to overflow. And what we needed was for the waters to overflow, to let the flood rage, because we know that when a river floods its banks it causes devastation, but then it returns to its riverbed.

There is a clear and distinct lack of not only remorse, but even self-criticism; he shows complete absence of competence, of ability to self-reflect, a complete lack of ability to grasp that the action he committed not only did not advance the revolutionary cause, but landed him in prison, and turned the masses against him. This is a common trend: in the Philippines, the CPP-NPA has been fighting an armed struggle for 50 years, and are not an inch closer to power than they were then; in fact, they're arguably further from power than they were then. Their leader is a petit-bourgeois intellectual, Joma Sison, who fled in the 90s and has since been directing the (overwhelmingly student youth) members of his "party" to commit acts of terror on the Philippine population, which echo the Shining Path in brutality (rapes, murdering children, decapitations, etc.). It's an attitude tracable back to the red guards, and even before them, to the Socialist-Revolutionaries of the Russian Revolution.

In short, "Maoism" has failed to be a practical tool for the proletariat in any country where it's sprouted up, and has on the contrary served imperialism to quite some extent, often pitting self-described Maoists on the side of international capital and against their own countries' proletariats. They are the Kautskys, the Trotskys, of today's era. It is clear to the class-conscious masses of the world that Maoism is little more than a new word for the same old clique of tired intellectuals, furiously and adamantly attempting to sell capitalism as socialism, to sell imperialism as sovereignty, and to sell petit-bourgeois as proletarians.

I have no clue if this post is of any quality. It's mostly rambling. For an idea of why I wrote it, see this. Either way, I think it's useful we remain vigilant of petit-bourgeois wearing the cloak of socialism and attempting to bastardize it with philosophical sophistry in place of theory; and terroristic, Social-Revolutionary primitiveness in place of concentrated revolutionary activity.
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 No.358226

>>358213
Respect for that text wall anon, with coffe goes smooth.
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 No.358263

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 No.358281

>>358213
To clarify, I am NOT a Dengist, I am still looking at many sources to clarify point of view on them, I am sober though, >>357434 unlike you, and I know when a movement utterly fails, and SL failed due to its own shit, it collapsed after Abimael the cacheton and his entourage/sequito were captured. I can speak better of other adjacent movements but they are still fruitless and largely irrelevant in the grand scope of it all. What material effect do these movements have on the majority of Indian or Filipino proletarians? Referencing the post, if they had sufficient support they would have won at the very least 20 years ago and definitely not struggled as much as they did.
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 No.358401

>>358213
>Yes, the opinions of actual Peruvian people are important for a Peruvian matter,
prove that any of them are peruvian, and beyond that, peruvian leftists.

This is like presenting a bunch of pro Juan Guadio or Janine Anez tweets, it means LITERALLY NOTHING AT ALL

>Americans are becoming blind, right there at the bottom

oh yes right, "Kenney, Charles D. 2004. Fujimori's Coup and the Breakdown of Democracy in Latin America. " Americans are blind but you are… quoting an american who works for…. the centre for global development https://www.cgdev.org/expert/charles-kenny who funds the center for global developement? Take a look for yourself https://www.cgdev.org/section/funding

>Australian Department of Foreign Affairs & Trade


>Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation


>Bloomberg Philanthropies


>ExxonMobil Foundation


>THE MOTHERFUCKING FORD FOUNDATION


>UK Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office


need i go on.. I don't want to blind any more people with this obvious glow

>Several statistics suggesting that the ex-Soviet people liked the Soviet Union, same cannot be said for the Shining Path and Peruvians

which is why i included the truth and reconcillation report, of course they don't, as they have been told a pack of lies.

>non sequitur about china

its not a non sequitir its an important piece of context. How does the the sandinistas warranting the iran contra affair not back up what I am saying? China took part in it, on behalf of the contras.

>the US invaded grenada

after the USSR couped their leader dumbass. This is the problem with you dengoids, you have only surface level opinions, you don't check your sources to see they don't glow. The USSR couped Maurice Bishop because they wanted somebody who was more USSR aligned, this lead to the US invading.

>Chinese Revolution was ML or ML-MZT, Mao was not a Maoist

no but they were following the ideas of Mao

Its late i will reply to the rest of this wall of text later
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 No.358408

>>358213
oh in fact, i see your wall of text is actual just a fucking copy paste from reddit lmao, so the waffling of some pseud
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 No.358415

>>358401
Oh and charles kenny literally has one of the forwards to his book written by bill gates, and for those that don't know, Ford Foundation is probably one of the most glowing foundations on earth, with many MANY CIA and US state department connections. Google it, have a read, see for yourselves. thank you "informed tankie" for quoting the CIA at me, please continue
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 No.358417

>>358281
>and SL failed due to its own shit

and then

>it collapsed after Abimael the cacheton and his entourage/sequito were captured.

so, it wasn't its own shit, it was the fact it got CIAD and defeated militarily by the genocidal bourgiose state. Dumbass contradicting yourself one line to the other. Yes very sober and superior of you to do this
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 No.358420

>>358401
>>358408
>>358415
>>358417
Lmao imagine keeping doing this.
The football game is a better way to spend time.
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 No.358424

I will remind you all again, this argument about SP started when some idiot said "Maoism is the most glowing ideology" provided zero proof of any connection between SP and the CIA, and has now ended with somebody literally quoting a CIA funded paper at me.

The extent of retardation by dengists who think themselves some transcendent being is fucking unbelievable. Do you even check who you are quoting? Or do you just hastily google things that will back you up?
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 No.358426

>>358420
imagine quoting the CIA
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 No.358481

>>358213
>Alberto Fujimori ran on a right-populist and "tough on terrorism" campaign in 1990, you can see how from there on out both the president and congress are completely filled with almost pure neoliberals, even during the "Pink Tide," and just recently, a mild socdem, Pedro Castillo, only won by 0.26% against Fujimori's daughter, who is essentially just a political clone
What a shit thing the SP did to Peru's politics.
Nice effortpost, anon. Thank you.
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 No.358488

>>358481
>it is the shining paths fault that rightoids are winning
This is a global phenomenon
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 No.358541

>>358401

>oh yes right, "Kenney, Charles D. 2004. Fujimori's Coup and the Breakdown of Democracy in Latin America. " Americans are blind but you are… quoting an american who works for…. the centre for global development https://www.cgdev.org/expert/charles-kenny who funds the center for global developement? Take a look for yourself https://www.cgdev.org/section/funding


Where in that whole wall of text was quoted Charles Kenney? I reviewed the links, except for wikipedia ones, and the name never appeared.
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 No.358549

File: 1625529789945-0.png ( 260.79 KB , 914x827 , KennEy.PNG )

File: 1625529789945-1.png ( 348.13 KB , 1268x774 , ThisKidIsASchizo.PNG )

File: 1625529789945-2.png ( 23.9 KB , 1677x274 , keking.PNG )

File: 1625529789945-3.jpg ( 88.1 KB , 720x720 , Glow.jpg )

>>358401
Who, outside of some rabid Americans, would be spending their precious paid phone service searching shit up about an 80's and 90's insurgency in a 3rd world country, this is just bad faith lmfao
<BTW Not comparable at all seeing as the Bolivian accounts were all confirmed to have been created around the same time, had dark indians speaking clear english (impossible, given that only higher class people can afford to access upper education), and were obvious bots using the exact same message with no discrepancies, verbatim copies, whereas you have years old videos with several people with varying account creation dates all over the videos, been watching a bit too much Forensic Files I see, you need to take meds lmfao PICREL @glow

>whining about some burger fuck using a poll from Peru

This wouldn't be a good argument to begin with, as they're using a citation themselves, but to prove the sheer amount of laziness and bad faith that the Mautist has, he couldn't even be bothered to spell check or check the website he linked to PICREL @ KennEy and ThisKidIsASchizo and keking
>COPE
<SEETHE
>ROPE

>pack of lies

Not including the opinions of the opposing side IS dishonest, but again, you demonstrate an embarrassing lack of ability to comprehend that this is an omission/censorship, not just random bullshit being made up, the sources our CVR can be backed up by corroborating evidence like the videos demonstrated, there's extensive media coverage that can be traced, etc. Again though, the Senderos started the war, so it's utterly irrelevant just how many people they butchered, because none of the conflict would have happened had they not engaged in this adventurist outing that was doomed from the start due to it being Blanquist and Narodnik in nature
>important piece of context
When talking about the USSR's support/lack of support for the world revolutions? (Beyond Mao, China wasn't really big on foreign interventions unless it was regional like Korea
>Sandinistas
If the US considers some shit in Nicaragua of all countries, serious enough for the President to risk getting prosecuted for treason (going around Congress) by selling missles to Iran, then yes, the Sandinistas must have been adequately armed, the US even sperged about "muh free elections"
>sources glow
<WAAAAAAAAAAAAH ITS THE USSR's FAULT WHEN THE USA IS ANTI-COMMUNIST
Following this logic I'm sure you also think that Cuba or some shit getting Bay of Pigs'd is also somehow the USSR's fault, because as always, the USSR is to blame whenever the USA does what the USA does best
>"The Chinese Revolution, the CPC,etc. are objectively ML/ML-MZT"
<"b-b-but Mao was the leedar"
You have retardation, that's not what defines Maoism colloquially
>>358408
cope, made you read
>>358415
This uygha literally cannot spell, picrel PICREL @ KennEy and ThisKidIsASchizo and keking
>>358417
Outstanding observation, but I'll do the very hard critical thinking for you.
The two are intrinsically related, the SL was plagued by a cult of personality which enabled a massive power vacuum to appear when their head was lopped off, especially when the rest of the central committee was gone. The Senderos were held together with promises of a quick victory, basically being a cult, and duct tape, with the 1st and 2nd gone within a couple of months/within the same year, it crumbled and was more or less a meme/less glorified cartel by 1995, definitely by 2000 and especially now, where they are more or less trapped in the VRAE, which is crawling with soldiers, and they admit to using child soldiers (though if you gringos read, you'd know that the group original also didn't shy away from using children of suspect age as cannon fodder) jajajajja https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYNOimvcwZ8
>>358424
>>358426
PICREL @ KennEy and ThisKidIsASchizo

>>358488
There was a phenomena of cool socdems winning in the 2000s all over South America, including Brazil, Argentina, Ecuador, Venezuela, Bolivia, Paraguay, Uruguay, etc. Peru technically had a socdem in the form of Humala but due to the congress having been (and still largely being) comprised of neoliberal or fascist-adjacent parties in Peru, they weren't really a part of the Marea Rosa
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 No.358566

>>358541
The Burger cannot into spelling, see >>358549

>>358481
No problem man
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 No.358569

>>358401

>oh yes right, "Kenney, Charles D. 2004. Fujimori's Coup and the Breakdown of Democracy in Latin America. " Americans are blind but you are… quoting an american who works for…. the centre for global development https://www.cgdev.org/expert/charles-kenny who funds the center for global developement? Take a look for yourself https://www.cgdev.org/section/funding


Where in that whole wall of text was quoted, Charles Kenney? I reviewed the links, except for wikipedia ones, and the name never appeared.
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 No.358589

>>358569
Hello, >>357434 was referring to this >>356909 post by me, I called him blind because I listed "Kenney, Charles D. 2004. Fujimori's Coup and the Breakdown of Democracy in Latin America. " Then he sperged and found some random dude with the last name Kenny (Not Kenney), which is explained here in this post >>358549
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 No.358592

>>358424
>I will just accuse of fedfunding one of the researches and will keep covering the sun with a finger
I'm not that anon but the game is in pause (fuck it began) so I don't have time.
The bibliography agaisnt sendero is big, and well founded, from the testimonies of those who lived the war, to the academic research of the shining path, their origins and even their cadres.
For fuck sake, check bibliopraphy and don't come with your "gotcha" moments and check the substance.
And about peruvian leftists. I will ask you again, come here, you can benefit that there aren''t too many tourists for example in Chan Chan or Machu Picchu (just don't take the train, do the inka trail) and check the 3 museums to the memory. One in Lima, one in Ayacucho and one in Huancayo (only one by the goverment, and a pretty liberal wing, so much that rightoids seethe when they see it)
I would post parts of a memoire where one of the leaders of the revolution of the 60's does a quiet burn of the terrorist tactics but the match is going on. and we are losing for fuck sake
Hell, I bet you can visit the isles near Callao and get a glimpse of the ruins of the famous prison.
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 No.358596

File: 1625530854901.jpg ( 58.67 KB , 286x323 , e3658ec3e1dffd194119ff1629….jpg )

>>358589
lmao, ok.
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 No.358600

>>358592
Este es otro anon, no estoy samefagging, honestamente no supe que habia un museo en Huancayo, es un poco vergonzoso
Y si, estamos perdiendo contra Brasil D:
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 No.358604

>>358592
Despues del partido pasa les unos URLs porfa, gracias
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 No.358612

>>358424
But anon, Deng took third world theory to the verbatim from Mao.
If any, nowadays China supporters would despise Deng's relationships with other countries, but all of them were based on Mao's writing.
I guess the U.S. could start to finance a communist country that claims they hold the true communist ideology and claim China is the new social-imperialist, just to start over again.
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 No.358660

>>358600
Perdimos, csm esos brasileños juegan bien, y al final no les aguantamos, pero son unos actorazos, habran perdido 15 minutos entre cambios y andar cayendose como niñas con poliomelitis
CSM
CSM
CSM
CSM
CSM
Al menos no perdi plata en las apuestas kek
>>358604
I will check if some books are online, I mostly own physical.
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 No.358805

>>358600
Yo tampoco sabia, pero no se donde al leer sobre las politicas relacionadas a la guerra interna de Peru Libre lei de que habian inaugurado un museo de la memoria en Huancayo (le impacto personalmente a Cerron la guerra, su papa era subrector de la U. del centro y milicos lo mataron).
Me parece que no es muy conocido y es chiquito (y no tiene el apoyo de las ONGs internacionales que tiene el de Lima) pero algo es algo.

Bueno, no acabo de leerlas (todavia voy en la parte en la que recien van a entrar a la frontera y las enfermedades de la selva los ataca con saña) pero esta parte es especial:
The course of tactic and strategy was in charge of Angelito. Red as a cherry, with a completely bald head with a small and tough bodym all musce inside his sparkly military trench coat of commander despite his 60 years old.
Fracisco Ciutat de Miguel o Pavel Pavlovich Stepanov o Angel Martinez Riosola, old lieutenaunt colonel in the Spanish Republic, colonel of the Soviet Army in the second world war, mayor general in Cuba, military adviser of the Soviet Union in the Bahia de Cochinos, in the wars of VIetman and Argeliam he was a theorist of the guerrilla war. A guerrilla scholar, had called him Fidel once. Argelia, Vietnam, China, were matter of his analysis and explanations.
Angelito came with a helper after lunch, put a portable record over one of the compfy armchairs of the table and smoked a big habano, while his monotonous spanish accent rised from the box and we listened sitting, sleepy sometimes ober the other chair on that house that once was from some La Habana's rich families. He carried his speeches taped on a magnophonetic tape to not give himself the job of explaining what surely he said too to other groups, while they taked notes.
The narrations of Angelito explained who were the night guerrillas of Vietnam, when the farmers did military operations by night, becoming soldiers, and went back to being farmers by day. How the revolutionary movements in China, Argelia, Vietnam had developed. How was the armed propaganda. What were the guerrilas golden rules. And over all, Angelito sustained, one had to win the moral superiority by his own behaviour. We do not have to conduct ourselves on the farmers as the rectionary armies who rape women, burn houses, kill prisioners, commit atrocities. The facts have to establish the differences , not words nor speeches. The guerrilla wins because is superior, and is superior because its behaviour demonstrates it. Then one has to be very careful from the beggining in how to visit and show to the farmers withouth breaking their customs, what to be done to penetrate that unknown and distinct mass of men and women whose psicology we have to analize and comprehend, respecting their rights, their culture and life. In the beggining we will be ghosts that will march unknown places by night, always by night, always on the jungle (el monte), until the farmers speak of us as the great army of thousands of ghosts and our myth grows of our misterious power born of the shadow. Be clear between us and them is the question. We are not the revolution. We are barely the moving spark that runs in the dry straws of the inmense fields. After, when the fieds burn, the guerrilla will be the farmers because the revolution is not for us but for them, and it grows from the social hummmus as a wild flower. When them are the revolutionary army we will have won, We are not, them are the actors of this revolutionary drama. Passing from the us to them, that is the point: the transfer of the message, the conversion of the speech into action. We can lose so they can win. Our role can be the one of losers, but for others, the great multitude, obtain the final victory, While they are not we will be always in danger because the reactionary armies know that if the guerrilla is not crushed in the beggining, it will never be defeated.
-Hector Bejar, Retorno a la Guerrilla p.145-146

And the epilogue of one of the most recents books written by liberal gringos, the book stench on liberalism OH Marxists are all deifiers (god how I hate them, I got his book as one should get any book in this lands, pirated and for 10 soles). Published first in the US, then translated by a local sociology institute and published here too. But the epilogue seems pretty fine and is a good read.
I would post Zapata's book about the war, but there isn't a pdf or epub to my knowledge
EPILOGUE
A low-slung concrete building wedges into the crumbling bluffs above Lima’s ocean front. The Memory Place for Tolerance and Social Inclusion,its awkward official name, opened in 2015, a museum about the war years.With artifacts and high-definition video, it covers main events from Uchuraccay to the Grupo Colina and the Tarata bombing. The bare greylines of the building’s architecture follow the mournful anti–Arc de Triomphe tradition of Maya Lin’s Vietnam Veterans Memorial and the later United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. War has no winners, these bleak postmodern memorials tell us. The Memory Place wants every Peruvian to know something about the María Elenas, the slaughtered peasants, and the atrocities of Shining Path and the military. We must learn from the past’s mistakes to avoid repeating them, as the modern mantra hasit. Attendance at the museum has somewhat disappointed its organizers. Only some school groups, random Limans, and the occasional foreign tourist wander through on many days. An early-twentieth-century French sociologist, Robert Hertz, noted how the “unquiet souls” of the war dead can haunt the living. But most Peruvians do not seem very interested in the Shining Path years. Many are too young to remember the conflict or were not even born yet. In a fleeting moment of optimism and openness after the fall of Fujimori’s quasi-dictatorial rule, the new government established a Truth and Reconciliation Commission to provide a public accounting of the war’s fuller history. Both the senderistas and the Peruvian military hated its nine-volume report for documenting their brutality. That the commission was largely composed of white Lima professionals did not help its credibility with Andean villagers. Some peasants dismissively derided the Cumisión Llullamanta, or “Lie Commission,” refusing to be interviewed.They wanted monetary reparations for lost loved ones, and some eventually received small payments.A few fine war memoirs appeared. Lurgio Gavilán’s When Rains Became Floods documented the peasant boy’s odyssey from senderista combatant to army sergeant, Franciscan priest, and then anthropology professor. One day, a surprised Gavilán received a lunch invitation from Mario Vargas Llosa. The novelist had made peace with Peru LMAO, again returning most summers to Barranco. We want to make a movie based on your book, the Nobel Prize winner said. Vargas Llosa would write the screenplay himself.
It can sometimes seem as if nothing has changed in Peru. “A beggar on a throne of gold,” the nineteenth-century critic Manuel González Prado once described the country. As back in Viceroy Toledo’s day, the mining industrypowers the growing Peruvian economy, and yet the shacks of impoverished migrants still cling to hills at Lima’s outer edges. The city has a population of over ten million, an immense tangle of traffic-choked roads bulldozed through crumbling Chimú pyramids. Thieving politicians remain a constant.“I’m going to drown five hundred congressmen and some sewer rats,” one man says to another. “Why the rats?” comes the joke’s reply.The country has reinvented itself in other ways. Back in the war’s darkest hours, no one could have imagined the five-star Lima restaurants or the crowded shopping malls. Even the former ground zero for Shining Path,Ayacucho, brims downtown with small businesses and street life nowadays.
Limited progress has been made nationwide towards reducing rural poverty, and, in the cities, upwardly mobile cholos have browned the growing middle classes as well. The intrepid village-born photographer, Óscar Medrano, built a big house for his family in the comfortable Surco district. He and millions more Peruvians continue to speak Quechua and many lesser-known indigenous languages. A well-known rock group, Uchpa, performs in the Incan tongue, and a young Amazonian rapper, Gaviota Tello, has a viral video in her native Kukama. “Tradition is alive and mobile,” José Carlos Mariátegui recognized long ago. “Quite the opposite from what the traditionalists want to think.”
It remains a hard life in the Andean countryside. Back in the heights of Huaychao, unmarried peasant girls continue to brim their hats with flowers, only plastic ones nowadays. A health clinic operated briefly before shuttering, and, when the teachers do not come up from the city, the village school also closes. Most young Huaychainos must leave to find their fortune, or, more likely, a menial job like wheelbarrowing cement at a construction site in Ayacucho or Lima. A new guerrilla insurgency might find some takers in the neglected backcountry even now.
The biggest attraction of Peru for foreigners is still the great stone ruin of Machu Picchu. Its splendid heights seldom disappoint, even though the swarming crowds can make the ancient Incan citadel feel more like Grand Central Station. All three top Shining Path leaders had connections to the Lost City of the Incas—the smiling Elena Iparraguirre guiding American tourists there in the early 1960s; Abimael Guzmán and Augusta La Torre making a honeymoon stop there before returning to Ayacucho to plan their war. What visitor to Machu Picchu knows that now—or would care? Nor do many people realize that the senderistas bombed the tourist train back in1986.
But the war’s aging protagonists forget nothing. The bloody 1980s marked their lives forever, and, no matter their role, they have stories to tell about Peru’s own Tolstoian epic of war and peace. Abimael’s navy jailersallow no visitors besides his lawyer, and, once a year, Elena. “Our work,yours and mine, is over,” he wrote to her a few years after the war’s end. The party, they claim, no longer exists. Some question that, and, in any event, a Shining Path–allied organization, MOVADEF, holds occasionalstreet rallies and stirs up trouble now and then. Abimael was brought to a military courtroom in 2017 to be retried for the Tarata bombing, along with a few other senderista leaders. The stooped, almost toothless octogenarian warmly hugged his aging terrorist comrades. He flashed his old form to deliver a caustic speech about the trial’s “farce” and get himself expelled from the courtroom. “You don’t know who you’re dealing with!” Abimael warned before the bailiffs led him away. He was no King Lear or Oedipus, able to recognize the madness of his illusions at the end of it all.
The Piedras Gordas maximum-security penitentiary lies in the desert at Lima’s far northern limits. Elena’s cellblock holds twenty or so aging senderista ladies, mostly former party leaders. Older Peruvians recall her from TV news footage as a severe woman, like a Marxist Frau Farbissina from the Austin Powers movies. The real Elena is pleasant, attractive, and forceful at almost seventy. She writes poetry and paints well. (A self-portrait recalling her solitary confinements owes debts to Picasso’s Guernica and Munch’s The Scream.) The graying matrons at Piedras Gordas no longer goose-step with lighted torches and fake machine guns asin the old Shining Path days. Their collectivist spirit still shows in the cellblock’s tidy common area, group meals, and language and art classes. Elena teaches French. Her rank makes her the cellblock’s queen bee, the first among equals. In another life, she might have been a capable corporate executive see I told you they stench of liberalism. A more tempered Elena no longer displays quite the same arrogant Maoist certainty. “We committed many errors,” she admits. “Things got outof control.” That admission does not extend to any real remorse, however,and Elena does not dwell for long upon the war’s human costs. The armed struggle for a Communist country, she claims, had a productive outcome despite the more than 70,000 deaths. “Oppressed people know their rights now!” It would be unthinkable for Elena to acknowledge that the revolution actually left little trace besides the mutilated bodies and awrecked country. “I’d do it again, only do it better,” Elena says. She complains about being held when imprisoned armed rebels in Colombia and Northern Ireland have received amnesty by now.A good revolutionary keeps her spirits. “I’m hopeful about the future because with computers young people can inform themselves about everything,” she says. When a visitor explains about pornography, videogames, and other online time wasters, Elena looks only momentarily disappointed. She will likely not set foot beyond the razor wire again.Others will determine the planet’s fate.
Across the Atlantic, Gustavo Pineki, María Elena’s widower, does not especially like sharing his stories. “It’s too soon to talk,” Gustavo excused himself to a reporter after her murder. “The boys are the main thing now.” He fled to Madrid in 1992 to raise Gustavo Jr., David, and their cousin Jorge in a working-class Madrid neighborhood among other exiles,migrants, and refugees. They kept a shrine to María Elena in their apartment’s living room for many years: pictures, some keepsakes, a crucifixion. The boys grew up to marry Spanish women, and, eventually, Gustavo packed away the shrine after remarrying himself. He tells Little María Elena, Gustavo Jr.’s girl, stories about her famous grandmother, and yet still tries to avoid the occasional interview request. The retired cabinetmaker feels no need to explain, justify, and lathe history’s loose boards to his own specifications.
Many villagers do not like discussing the war either. “My father will notcome alive again,” one Ayacuchan peasant explained refusing to testify before the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. “It would be for nothing.” Country people like him, this man believed, already knew what hadhappened in that age of death and sadness anyway. Only the ciudadrunakuna, city dwellers, might not. Nor do former peasant supporters of the senderistas especially want to admit their original enthusiasms. We were deceived, many will say.
The voluble Narciso Sulca has never been reticent about his wartime adventures. At almost fifty, he remains a pixiesh man, by turns thoughtful,boastful, and sad. His Huaychao had risen up against the senderistas only for Narciso to be left as poor as ever with shrapnel in his leg. He and his wife, Asunción, now live in a canyon a few miles above Huanta. They make a slim living herding a wealthier peasant’s cows up into the jalca, the mountaintop pastures, and then back down to their makeshift corral in the evening. Their little boy brings up water for cooking and washing from the creek, and, when they have enough milk, Asunción makes salty cheeses to sell at the market. Their farmhouse in the eroded gully is a long walk from the nearest neighbors. Narciso wants a house in town, without much expectation that it will ever happen.
Nothing is ever certain, that much Narciso knows. He remembers how the young senderistas descended from the hill to their deaths at the judgment rock three decades before. They sang a sad ballad:
Adiós pueblo de Ayacucho / Goodbye, land of Ayacucho,
paqarinmi ripuchkani perlaschayay / Tomorrow I’ll return
kawsaspaycha kutimusaq / I’ll return if I live
wañuspayqa manañacha / Not if I die
The senderistas had joined the wandering dead spirits in the lonely night. It could just as easily have been Narciso to write helplessly against the strangling rope that day, the peasant boy who had thought about joining thecumpas himself. “It’s only thanks to God I’m alive,” he nods.
Every evening Narciso rounds up the cattle from the moors.
His whistle drives the animals down the darkening canyon.
>>

 No.358828

>>

 No.359413

>>358424
Is he coming back bros?
>>

 No.359423

>>357434
>You think every group is an insane ultra group apart from cuckdems
I am not him dumbass, the MPCP are splitters from the old SP who declared their intention to execute Gonzalo.
>>

 No.361357

>>342994
stfu anglo
>>

 No.361359

>>

 No.364989

>>358213
ultras btfo
>>358401
cope lmfao
>>

 No.365109

Reminder that Gonzalo is friendly with Montesinos, Fujimori's right hand man and a literal CIA glowie, the guy who assumed leadership after Gonzalo, Feliciano, is Montesino's cousin.
https://video-ams4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.24129-2/10000000_297496908664253_4216572059626213202_n.mp4?_nc_cat=103&vs=a34938

https://publicintegrity.org/national-security/cia-gave-at-least-10-million-to-perus-ex-spymaster-montesinos/
>>

 No.366481

Gonzalo is BASED af
>fuck deng
>fuck the USSR revisionist policies
>fuck cuba
>fuck the "muh comunists" aka rich lefties
<creates its own ideology based on mao's literature and a critical theory of its own country
unfortunatly pencilman is probably NGMI cuz they found that his entire party was financed with extorsion and selling illegal driver licences plus more weir money that came from junin
>>

 No.366486

>>365113
wtf is that link
>>

 No.366487

>>365109
they became friend way later on becouse they shared some musical tastes and later on they where in the same prision
>>

 No.366502

>>365109
Montesinos parents were communists
His first names are "Vladimiro Lenin Ilich"
>>

 No.366634

>>366481
Gonzalo's theory is dogshit. Sison is way more sober. Cuba is not a fucking threat, neither is DPRK. They are the only two socialistic countries on the planet today and that alone is a major achievement one ought to learn from, as a revolutionary movement. The Shining Path has been a failure, by contrast.
>>

 No.366659

>>365109
Kek the CIA glowie who literally hunted him down

Yeh, dengist cringe again
>>

 No.366668

>>366634
Simply this.
Don't fall for the autistic trap that is goinzaloism.

Also, looks like the whole naval base prison is going to be investigated for being lapdogs of Montesinos, allowing him to call anyone he wanted with no supervision.
In short, he got them by the balls.

Also, new video by Ahi les Va!
>>

 No.367178

https://www.leftvoice.org/top-advisor-says-perus-new-administration-will-respect-capitalist-relations/
>(((Pedro Francke)))
I warned you faggots.
Inb4 abloo bloo they're trots
>>

 No.367260

File: 1625888241659.jpg ( 93.29 KB , 400x467 , 1624774853081.jpg )

>>367178
>It's da jooos
Go back to your cesspit faggot
>>

 No.367953

>>365109
dengist not even once

>>366487
I hope they will get married
>>

 No.367956

>>366634
>DPRK
>socialistic
>>

 No.368521

>>367956
It is. Both Castro and the Filipino Maoist leader Jose Maria Sison agree about that.
>>

 No.369149

File: 1625982305244-0.png ( 729.86 KB , 852x396 , Montesinos1.PNG )

File: 1625982305244-1.png ( 327.38 KB , 845x194 , Montesinos1b.PNG )

File: 1625982305244-2.png ( 586.67 KB , 749x466 , Montesinos2.PNG )

File: 1625982305244-3.png ( 271.32 KB , 649x337 , Guzman1.PNG )

File: 1625982305244-4.png ( 322.09 KB , 813x264 , Guzman2.PNG )

>>367953
>>366659
My beloved samefagging friend, I'm sure you'll run like a bitch again after throwing out baseless accusations because there is no way to discuss the subject without admitting that you're wrong
For the angloparlants
Vladimiro Montesinos send to the terrorist Abimael Guzman a solicitation of aid of his "militants" to skew the vote in Keiko Fujimori's favor
Montesinos1 and Montesinos1b : "March 20, 2016
Dear countryman and friend:
Sending a cordial hug wishing this with excellent health and good spirits as it characterizes Arequipa in situations of adversity. As you can see, it is very likely that you understand the prospect that KF (Keiko Fujimori) will win the elections in the first place this next April 10th. There is the probability of being elected in the second round next May. If this is so, we would have you and my person, jointly the historical alternative to culminate our task of completing peace in the country. Whose fact is feasible, if she wins then we would stop the conversation. For this reason I ask you to send a message to your wife Miriam with my greetings and suggesting militant's support the election of KF with their vote, a big hug."
Montesinos2: "April 13, 2016
Dear countryman and friend:
Having concluded the first electoral round with the known result, I request your response for the second round to be held on June 5th. With the usual appreciation and greetings to your wife and partner Miriam.
Guzman1: "April 13, 2016 Dear fellow countryman and friend
I hope to reply as soon as possible
Yours truly"
Guzman2: "April 11, 2016 Dear Countryman and Friend
Unfortunately, on this occasion we will not be able to support you, we hope it will be possible in the future, yours truly"

<"But Guzman and others were accused of being saboteurs of the Agrarian Reform Law, and the pro-Soviet Communist newspaper accused them of being CIA agents".

>Shining Path's Stalin and Trotsky page 176

<Oscar Ramirez Duran (Comrade Feliciano, who assumed command after capture of Gonzalo, said the following in 2003:

"The people of our country, I, like many other people, made the decision to change that state of affairs to make a new country to make Peru a better one, but it happens that we assume a wrong ideology, the nefarious Gonzalo thought that led us to commit Many mistakes and in the end led us to a dead end. Many lessons have to be learned from these two decades, one of them in my view is that war is better avoided as a philosopher said, war is a monster of killing among men, that many times from being a means becomes an end, and if you can sometimes express heroic acts, the most extreme passions of human beings will also be expressed and war ends up dehumanizing us, it is For all that, what when a chain of hate and revenge is established, because hate generates more hate, revenge more revenge, and in the war that dynamics is produced, the war itself drives that, and when such a chain occurs, after It is difficult to break, I think that is why it is better to avoid wars, I would also like to talk to you about democracy, after many reflections I have also come to the conclusion that democracy, despite all its problems and limitations, is the best system Coexistence between human beings is better than any totalitarianism, because totalitarianism only brings intolerance and restricts the freedom of human beings, we have had in the 20th century, great lessons from totalitarian systems that led to negative situations for humanity, I think That this experience will have to bring out the positive that serves for the future, but in my opinion, democracy is always better than any totalitarian dictatorship, I want to take the occasion to invoke the state and society and all of you to have consideration and understanding with all the political prisoners. A democratic society must express its moral and judicial political superiority by giving the opportunity to rehabilitate and rejoin political prisoners and prisoners in general in society, but what is happening, life imprisonment or the sentences that have been given and what They are going to be given from 30 to 35 years. It is practically a death to all political prisoners, and that cannot be, that is to continue that chain of revenge and hatred that we must banish from our society. I also want to invoke the comrades who are still up in arms, so that they seek to establish a dialogue with the government in order to reach an understanding. I extend the invocation to the state, to the Peruvian government, to facilitate this dialogue in such a way that a solution can be found to that problem that still afflicts our country. Those people who are still there, are Peruvians like us, who also have a cause, and most of the remaining ones are peasants, therefore for the sake of national reconciliation, it should be seen to solve this problem in a way that is not military, finally , to reiterate once again, my deepest condolences to all the people who were affected by the internal war, and especially to those who had lost beings who were left, I finally thank the commission of truth and reconciliation for this opportunity for allowing me to reach all of you, thank you very much."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUM9HWik3qk

<Called Gonzalo a "psychopath" and said that "He was always a coward and a traitor"

>Archive of Caretas http://web.archive.org/web/20050929222233/http://www.caretas.com.pe/Main.asp?T=3082&idE=640&idS=228

<Hundreds of videos of testimonies from Peruvian people (yes, critiquing both sides, CVR or TRC are still flawed, arguments containing the fallacy of the flawed dilemma (black or white, if it isn't x it is y, "if you are not with me, then you are my enemy," direction brain, etc.) are not real arguments, you're just an infantile coper

>http://www.lum.cultura.pe/cdi/materiales/video Literally hundreds of videos of testimonies

<Guzman/Comrade Gonzalo surrendered (Captured September 12th, 1992, this video is from December 3rd, 1993, Ramirez/Comrade Feliciano, Flores/Comrade Artemio has wanted to surrender since at the very least 2011 (though Artemio was captured in February 12 of 2012)

>Gonzalo Surrender https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKQkCBvSQVo
>Feliciano More or less denouncing the group https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUM9HWik3qk
>https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/dec/08/artemio-peru-shining-path-commander
>for the retards who believe in JFK/moon landing conspiracy theories here is a video of the cacheton, older, no doubt, with the same voice, denying that he knew about Tarata, but this is flawed reasoning for a couple of reasons
1. He tells them to go through the schizo sloganeering that is the PCP-SL's books, which the police aren't going to do, they aren't really interested in knowing the ins and outs of theory about winning over the national bourgeoisie, the only "theory" they would ever potentially care about in these kangaroo courts are just about their military strategy, which sucked dick and consisted of trying to accelerate by bombing the city where the majority of the population lived as well as causing constant blackouts and power outages, disrupting food supply lines (something that might work if an overwhelming majority of the population lived rurally, as they did in China during the 1920s-1950 and even onwards, I explained all of this in detail above))
2. His lawyer is probably feeding him some lines because at this point all he can do is hope to get slightly more lenient sentences so that he isn't locked in a closet (though his friendship with Montesinos probably takes care of any discomforts though
3. Artemio bluntly admits that they did Tarata and Lucanamarca in his interview
4. It's a kangaroo court at this point, that's all you're going to get when you try to overthrow the state, fail, and get captured

<Analysis from DoS/NSA claiming that even if Guzman were to "end" Sendero Luminoso, it would boost his popularity ratings so much that we would assuredly win the next elections (in line with despite massive corruption, drug smuggling, embezzlement, the "Fujimorist" parties have had a majority ever since the 90s and socdem reformists getting shafted, though the "People's War" has all but dissipated and becomes more of a distant memory as opposed to the supposed "revitalization" that I hear American Maoists talking about, you'd be surprised to find out that a good deal of Peruvians are hostile to "socialism," which is surprising and disappointing given that most people, even in the capital, live in abject or "pretty shit" poverty

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB96/930730%20Reports%20of%20Negotiations%20with%20Guzman.pdf

Still waiting on any response, gringo of shit, maybe if you cope hard enough it'll make the pain go away lolol
>>

 No.369153

>>369149
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJG3_KLCU_c Video of Gonzalo denying having had "anything to do" with Tarata, but saying that they "furiously criticized" the action and that it was a "monstrous error for those who commit it"
If you line this up with Artemio admitting that they (Original Senderos) made the mistake of doing so, so even if Abimael somehow didn't plan something major like that (because Lucanamarca was ordered/done with the knowledge/consent of the committee), it was still a Sendero attack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK30pfe0zhw
>>

 No.369307

>>358549
I appreciate your autism, good posts
>>

 No.369354

File: 1626003420863.jpg ( 104.7 KB , 1300x821 , 1626003409031.jpg )

Fellow agents, is the coup still in the works?
>>

 No.369664

File: 1626018713634.jpg ( 67.89 KB , 474x678 , noche de cine.jpg )

>>369354
Yes Mr. Smith, we haven't heard anything from Biden, but our operatives are working to calm down the bussinessmen, we will try to contain any break since if the Keiko people go for their plan of eroding the peruvian democracy who knows what lies in the next corner.

Keiko and a scared part of the dominant class is still going with the fraud conspiracy, very trumpist if you ask me, and the famous writer MVLL is still giving them support.

The goverment of Sagasti has received the vaccines we send them, he sends many thanks and ask us if we can do something to calm Keiko, and if it is possible, arrange a meeting between the two.
>>

 No.371744

>>369149
no u samefag
>>

 No.371747

>>

 No.372007

>>371744
>no argument
Back to reddit you disabled son of a bitch
>>

 No.372057

>>372007
>posts a wall of text from Reddit
>pretends it’s his own post
>now go back to Reddit
Lmao, the absolute state
>>

 No.372134

>>372057
I openly stated it wasn't mine lmfao
Run along though, like you did before
>>

 No.372137

File: 1626101302004.png ( 10.23 KB , 1040x63 , ClipboardImage.png )

>>372007
right here officer lmao
>>

 No.372143

>>372057
This anon >>372007 is not me gringoid
>>

 No.372159

>>372137
>citing Reddit
Go back
>>

 No.372161

File: 1626102432162.jpg ( 5.73 KB , 300x300 , chuckle.jpg )

>>372159
Or what? I don't give a fuck about the logical fallacies and non-arguments that some brit has to offer
>>

 No.372165

>>372161
>citing Reddit
>calling others glowie
>>

 No.372186

>>372159
>No counter-argument
Quiet.
(But I didn't expect you to be able to muster one, honestly)
>>

 No.372191

File: 1626103522915.png ( 213.25 KB , 1280x960 , aol.png )

>>372165
Ad hominem attacks and projection are not arguments, there are """Maoist""" subreddits and more of your csm retarded angloparlants on Reddit
Try harder gringo, for your own sake
>>

 No.372200

>>372186
>>372191
It’s not an ad hominem to say your citation is not reliable. An ad hominem would be something like attacking my nationality
>>

 No.372201

>>372165
>Advocating MLM-CIA Thought
>Attempting to dodge the sourced, advanced, Marxist-Leninist argument by whining about the platform it was copied from
Weak, to the surprise of no-one familiar with your jungle cosplay fandom.
>>

 No.372224

so how goes the protracted war, boilers?
>>

 No.372235

File: 1626104238380.png ( 660.21 KB , 551x509 , ClipboardImage.png )

>>372200
You don't know what a citation is, (A citation would be the countless sources I gave and that you ran like a bitch from because you couldn't spell a name correctly, sperged out, and then returned with your tail between your legs) I openly said that it was a copy and paste. You are right though, making fun of you for being a brit is just name calling, which is not only based, but it's also better of an argument because due to you being an anglo, you're most likely uninformed on various matters concerning anything outside of your country, and this likelihood has been proven by your lack of arguments and coping about "muh reddit" because you can't assess the argument
>>

 No.372252

>>372224
>Allende
Shut up and read Lenin before your pacifist faggotry pointlessly gets your people killed again.
>>

 No.372266

>>372201
>it was sourced
No it was from Reddit

>Maoism is CIA

Absolutely zero evidence given but cool. Sell more weapons to the contras please

>>372235
>when I do ad hominem it’s good when you do it it’s bad
>calling yourself based
Cringe
>>

 No.372278

>>372266
How can you not think that Gonzalo being buddies with Montesinos >>369149, Feliciano turncoating that fucking hard, and Artemio wanting peace agreements but the state dragging out the war on purpose makes Sendero anything other than blindingly glowing lmfao see this >>369149 and read the thread in general you faggot lmao
>>

 No.372280

>>372266
les ein buch amischwein
>>

 No.372286

File: 1626105288087.jpg ( 7.54 KB , 275x183 , download.jpg )

>>372266
>admitting that your only arguments lie in autistically attacking a source and not arguing against the main points
>>

 No.372292

>>372266
Only 1 out of 20 or so links were Reddit, and that was a self-contained critique of Mautists, the rest is completely clean, cope harder sagefaggot
>>

 No.372293

>>372278
>March 20th 2016
Kek I have been with my Gf a longer time than this
>>

 No.372296

>>372292
The majority of the writing is from Reddit
>>

 No.372311

File: 1626105789075.png ( 227.34 KB , 887x498 , ClipboardImage.png )

>>372200
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>372293
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhcXs91WbcA
See the embed, read the thread, holy fuck
>>

 No.372314

>>

 No.372315

>>372286
The main argument is what exactly?
>here is a video of some libs saying they don’t like terrorists, talking about other guerrilla groups

>some guy saying they had 55,000 supporters among the peasantry

But at the same time saying that the country was 65% urbanised, so that 55,000 comes from only 35% of the population which was 22 million in 1992. Out of 7.7m a party with 55,000 supporters and cadres is quite large actually, about 7% of the rural population. Compare that with how many direct members/cadres/supporters most communist parties have
>>

 No.372318

>>372311
So would you say if a source comes from the CIA it is reliable or not?
>>

 No.372321

>>372315
<"At its height in mid-1992, it was believed that Shining Path had between 3,000 and 4,000 armed cadres and 50,000 supporters in various civilian support groups and political cadres…"
>When All The Evils Come Together, Pablo G. Dreyfus. page 378

<50,000/492,507 (Supporters/Ayacucho Department Population in 1993)=0.10 or 10% of the population of Ayacucho Department Population, 50,000/22,693,443 (Supporters/Total Peruvian Census in 1993)=0.002 or 0.2% of the total Peruvian population in that year, remember that this was their peak, 1992/1993

>https://www.inei.gob.pe/estadisticas/indice-tematico/population/ "Población total, censada y omitida, según año censal" "Población censada, según departamento y año censal" Microsoft Excel or https://sheet.zoho.com/sheet/excelviewer

<Officially more than 50% urbanized in 1964, at the beginning of the armed struggle in 1980 urbanization in Peru was at 65% and by 2000, the end of the major conflict, it had become 73%, by 2020 it was 78%, for reference, a country like Germany is 77% urbanized

>https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.URB.TOTL.IN.ZS?locations=PE https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.URB.TOTL.IN.ZS?locations=DE
<Chinese Civil War was fought in a country that was 80~90% percent non-urbanized "In 1949, around 80 per cent of the Chinese population is rural. Lacking capital to invest in modern machinery the government decides organising human labour is key to China’s development and begins introducing a system of communes in 1958 to harness the rural labour force to stimulate agricultural and industrial productivity. Each commune is made up of smaller farm collectives and consists of 4,000–5,000 households, while larger communes could encompass up to 20,000 households.", even in 1980 only about 20% of the Chinese population was urbanized, Gonzalo attempted to graft this onto a country with nearly opposite urban:unurban ratios disastrously, and as you can see, during the Peruvian conflict, almost 10% of the population fled to the cities, meaning that about 1/3 of the supposed base left them dry
>https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10225706.2018.1476256 Table 1 https://multimedia.scmp.com/infographics/news/china/article/3139331/ccp-100year-anniversary/index.html

<Gonzalo openly admitted to and expressed no real criticism of the Lucanamarca massacre

>"In the face of reactionary military actions… we responded with a devastating action: Lucanamarca. Neither they nor we have forgotten it, to be sure, because they got an answer that they didn’t imagine possible. More than 80 were annihilated, that is the truth. And we say openly that there were excesses, as was analyzed in 1983. But everything in life has two aspects. Our task was to deal a devastating blow in order to put them in check, to make them understand that it was not going to be so easy. On some occasions, like that one, it was the Central Leadership itself that planned the action and gave instructions. That’s how it was. In that case, the principal thing is that we dealt them a devastating blow, and we checked them and they understood that they were dealing with a different kind of people’s fighters, that we weren’t the same as those they had fought before. This is what they understood. The excesses are the negative aspect… If we were to give the masses a lot of restrictions, requirements and prohibitions, it would mean that deep down we didn’t want the waters to overflow. And what we needed was for the waters to overflow, to let the flood rage, because we know that when a river floods its banks it causes devastation, but then it returns to its riverbed…. [T]he main point was to make them understand that we were a hard nut to crack, and that we were ready for anything, anything." https://web.archive.org/web/20071108165711/http://www.blythe.org/peru-pcp/docs_en/interv.htm
<Watch and read these to educate yourself, the above is demonstrative of commandism
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms0a7lA_l0Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhzifV9AjAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibtw0okgU3w Lucanamarca: Memorias de Nuestro Pueblo https://lum.cultura.pe/cdi/sites/default/files/rb/pdf/Lucanamarca%20Memorias%20de%20nuestro%20pueblo__(p1-150).PDF

<Shining Path was largely comprised of white and mestizo members, Central Commitee was largely very light skinned, most cadre were most likely petit-bourgeois mixed or white college kids, not indigenous people, who were largely relegated to farming and didn't have access to upper education, race and class are more or less one and the same in Latin America

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6hFiLlV7nI https://peru.com/actualidad/mi-ciudad/procuraduria-embarga-oficina-martha-huatay-abogada-sendero-luminoso-noticia-91351
<"The data set compiled by the Turth Commission shows that a minority of the 921 inmates had an indigenous mother tongue (29 percent in the Shining Path, 14 percent in the MRTA) (CVR 2003a, statistical annex, dataset dec_pen_est) although the percentage of Sendero's inmates with an indigenous first language was higher than in the general population (29 percent vs. 19 percent)."
>Civil Wars and their Consequences, The Peruvian Armed Conflict in Comparative Perspective, Livia Isabella Schubinger & David Sulmont. page 60
<Regarding the language or language with which they learned to speak in their childhood, 63.6% of people aged 5 and over stated that it was with Quechua, 35.6% Spanish, 0.1% the Aymara, among the main ones. At the provincial level, in Vilcas Huamán 91.7%, Cangallo 90.6%, Víctor Fajardo 87.1%, Huanca Sancos 84.0%, Sucre 82.1% and La Mar 78.6%, the majority learned to speak in his childhood with Quechua. In Lucanas 47.6%, Paucar del Sara Sara 43.9%, Huamanga 43.6% and Parinacochas 43.5% with Spanish. Responding to the census question on ethnic self-identification, applied to the population over 12 years of age, 81.2% recognize themselves as Quechua, 13.1% as mestizo, 2.0% as white and 0.8% as black, brown, zambo, mulatto / Afro-Peruvian or Afro-descendant people.
>http://censo2017.inei.gob.pe/censos-2017-departamento-de-ayacucho-cuenta-con-616-176-habitantes/

Math has been done already
>>

 No.372332

>>372318
CIA admitted that Stalin wasn't a dictator and that Soviet citizens didn't starve, cope
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80-00810A006000360009-0.pdf
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP85M00363R000601440024-5.pdf

>>372315
HAHAHAHA WTF
<yeah, but have you considered artificially inflating the percentage of supporters by excluding 2/3rds of the entire population
What a pathetic faggot-lit argument
>>

 No.372335

>>372332
Those are internal memos tho, not the info it puts out

>you can just get rid of 2/3rds of the population

Except the ideology specifically focussed on the peasantry first
>>

 No.372339

>>

 No.372343

>>372321
>citations from the truth commission
Not reliable
>>

 No.372346

>>372315
Ah yes, the famed "fucking libs" that are not only Peruvian, making their opinion of Sendero the only one that matters materially speaking, but are also random motherfuckers on the street, but who are statistically speaking members of the working class (i.e Peru is poor as fuck, no one walking around the streets if they're wealthy, those people are either in gated communities or dining out/driving to dine out)
Remember, members of the proletariat's opinions where movements happen don't matter, if you want to get the opinions of Peruvians on groups in their countries, you don't ask Peruvian proles, you ask American teenagers, what a fucking joke lmfao
>>

 No.372350

>>372321
>lucanamara
>80 dead
Now talk about the 200,000 women force sterilised by the Peruvian state
>>

 No.372352

>>372346
>if you are from the country your opinion therefore matters
That is why I believe Juan Guaido
>>

 No.372355

>>372346
Ask most polish people what they think of the Soviet Union, it won’t be a positive answer. Are they correct?
>>

 No.372361

>>372335
What's your point here? That's both theoretically revisionist and in practical application retarded, why the fuck would you target 1/3rd of the population (1/3 of which left during the course of the conflict)
>>372343
<video testimony and admissions
>"b-b-but muh CVR"
>"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU CANT JUST CITE THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF SOURCES AND TESTIMONIES READ MY NORWEIGAN NEWSPAPER POLEMIC THAT HAS 0% CITATIONS AND BROKEN LINKS!1!!:
cope
>>

 No.372376

>>372361
The socdems had utterly failed, for 50 years socialists all over Latin America had been slaughtered, on most of these occasions after refusing to arm themselves.

It makes absolute sense therefore that at the tail end of these decades of slaughter, a communist movement fighting a genocidal govnernment would be highly militarised. It is also easier to militarise in the jungle, in the manner of a people’s war, then immediately fighting some urban conflict.

What else are you suggesting should have been done?

Besides lay down and die like the Chileans, Brazilians, Indonesians and so on. Look at the places which now have some semblance of a socialist government, Nicaragua, Cuba, Venezuela, Uruguay. These are places that had armed guerrilla movements. The exception of course being Bolivia.

>dead links

Work fine for me
>zero citations
Lmao this is just a lie
>>

 No.372380

>>372350
Tu quoque deflectionshit, everyone knows Fujimori sucks, you're not smart for pointing out that the state also did bad things lmfao
>>372352
I didn't know that Americans could will and manifest movements into existence with their brains, that's incredible, anyway, for those of us living in reality, only Peruvians can create and support Peruvian moments, their opinions are functionally all that matters for their own movements
Also
< "In June 1991, "the total sample disapproved of the Shining Path by an 83 to 7 percent margin, with 10 percent not answering the question. Among the poorest, however, only 58% stated disapproval of the Shining Path; 11 percent said they had a favorable opinion of the Shining Path, and some 31 percent would not answer the question."[45] A September 1991 poll found that 21 percent of those polled in Lima believed that the Shining Path did not torture and kill innocent people. The same poll found that 13% believed that society would be more just if the Shining Path won the war and 22% believed society would be equally just under the Shining Path as it was under the government."
Kenney, Charles D. 2004. Fujimori's Coup and the Breakdown of Democracy in Latin America
>>372355
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/04/16/stalins-approval-rating-among-russians-hits-record-high-poll-a65245 Russians like Stalin
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/03/24/75-of-russians-say-soviet-era-was-greatest-time-in-countrys-history-poll-a69735 Russians like the USSR
https://news.gallup.com/poll/166538/former-soviet-countries-harm-breakup.aspx " Overall, residents of these former Soviet republics are more than twice as likely to say the breakup hurt (51%) than benefited their countries (24%). "
Stop being retarded, I beg you kek
>>

 No.372385

>>372361
>majority of sources and testimonies
You mean the ones who all said explicitly that they didn’t tell the truth about the situation, as part of the committee that was only allowed if it could be stacked with Peruvian bourgeoisie, which then used widely discredited statistical analysis methods to come up with obviously cooked numbers, and also excluded the fact they force sterilised 200,000 or more ingidenous women. Yeh, fuck that study, it’s a load of shit
>>

 No.372387

>>372380
>asks about polish people
>but Russians like the ussr
Those aren’t polish people though are they retard
>>

 No.372390

>>372376
Who are you talking to schizo?
No one here (certainly not me) is denying the need for an armed revolution faggot, that doesn't mean Sendero was good
>implying maoists don't try to do the trot thing where they pass off op-eds from Tribune as actual sources instead of hard data like the autistic anon gave
>>

 No.372395

>>372380
And yet you attack shining path from the left when they were at war with this state that you say sucks
>>

 No.372399

>>372390
Okay, so we need an armed revolution but you bitch out at the people doing the armed revolution because they killed 80 people I see…
>>

 No.372403

>we need an armed revolution but the strand of ideology which specially calls for an armed revolution are all bloodthirsty autists
>I am very very smart
>>

 No.372405

>>372385
That's how war works you naïve idealistic child, if you fuck up and lose, don't expect the average joe to stick out their neck instead of getting reparation money, what the video testimonies say is functionally the truth whether you like it or not, no one cares about what some sperging 1st worlders have to say about the conflict anyhow
As for the results of later studies, Sendero killing 38% of the victims as opposed to 45% isn't very impressive, I assure you no one here gives a fuck about the supposed 7% difference, we're mostly glad the fighting is over, you keep sperging about their data yet offer no counter data, no counter-testimonies, it's very amusing
>>

 No.372410

>terrorist acts are automatically "revolutionary war"
<Hey kid, wanna blow up a federal building?
>>

 No.372416

>>372405
>it doesn’t matter that the state covered up the fact they did most of the killing and blamed it all on the shining path which was a lie, I can’t possibly see how this might warp people opinions of the shining path

Studies were given and quoted, here they are again, if you care to actually contend with what they are saying. These are Maoist sources either

Just thought I'd throw these sources in here into a slower thread so they can be on hand for when the
>muh baby boiler
brigade show up again:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2053168018820375

>The Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) in Peru is usually cited as an example of how capture–recapture methods can help improve our understanding of mass violence from incomplete observed data. Using 25,000 documented death records, the TRC estimated a total of 69,000 killings, and that the Shining Path was the main perpetrator, in contrast with the raw data where the Peruvian State appears to be responsible for the most killings. One feature not often noticed is that the TRC applied an unusual indirect procedure, combining data on different perpetrators and lumping together missing perpetrator data in one group. I show that direct estimations with strict stratification by perpetrator and accounting for missing data do not support the results of the TRC’s indirect approach. I estimate a total of 48,000 killings, substantially lower than the TRC estimate, and the Peruvian State accounts for a significantly larger share than the Shining Path. Rather than an example of correcting biases in the observed data through capture–recapture methods, the TRC actually introduced further distortion.


https://oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780199366439.001.0001/acrefore-9780199366439-e-495

>Even after President Alejandro Toledo increased the number of commissioners to twelve from seven (adding Ames, Arias, Lay, Antúndez, Morote, and the observer Bambarén), the commissioners still reflected elite sectors of Peru least affected by the violence. All were residents of Lima, all were urban dwellers, only one spoke Quechua, only one understood it, and none self-identified as Indigenous or campesino. As Commissioner Carlos Iván Degregori later commented, “even the composition of the CVR reflected the gaps in the country” that underlay the political violence


>It is crucial to remember that survivors of the violence made decisions about what they would and would not share with the CVR. Anthropologist Kimberly Theidon observed that in many rural Ayacucho communities devastated by the violence, campesinos held local assemblies prior to the arrival of the CVR’s testimonial teams. At those assemblies, community authorities decided what local residents should say and what they should leave unsaid, lest some community members’ initial support for Shining Path militants somehow cast the community as less deserving of reparations. As Theidon notes, “There was an effort to close narrative ranks, prompted by the many secrets people keep about a lengthy fratricidal conflict and the numerous expectations a commission generates.”


>The CVR also conducted interviews with more than one thousand leaders and rank-and-file members of the Shining Path and MRTA. Commissioners decided against allowing any of these individuals to participate in the public hearings,


>Politicians from the period, including former president Alan García, gave testimonies and participated in public hearings.


>Some have also argued that the CVR was too narrow in its focus, upset that the Final Report did not highlight their communities’ experiences or investigate their claims. Others contend that the CVR should have discussed the forced sterilizations carried out by the Fujimori government’s Family Planning Program. Those sterilizations of over two hundred thousand predominantly impoverished women of Indigenous descent occurred without informed consent and sometimes against the women’s will, often with grave health consequences
>>

 No.372418

>>372405
>that’s how war works you idealistic child
>waaaah some people died in the war
You are a very confused individual
>>

 No.372419

>>372410
>doing violence is automatically terrorism
And I am the glowie lmao. How is things in Texas George? War on terror going well?
>>

 No.372423

>>372395
<Alberto Fujimori ran on a right-populist and "tough on terrorism" campaign in 1990, you can see how from there on out both the president and congress are completely filled with almost pure neoliberals, even during the "Pink Tide," and just recently, a mild socdem, Pedro Castillo, only won by 0.26% against Fujimori's daughter, who is essentially just a political clone
Peru also has rather high election turnout at 82.27%, placing above liberal countries like Sweden, Australia or Denmark where you'd expect such shit, 97% of the population voted in 2000, so the "Voting no, People's War Yes" evidently didn't really get through to the population, demonstrating how they weren't really into the whole movement to begin with
>https://www.electionguide.org/countries/id/170/ https://www.electionguide.org/countries/id/170/
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Peruvian_general_election
Cope, they evidently failed to win over the population given that Peru has been a firmly neoliberal hellhole (with high voter turnout too!) since the 1990s, if the population is this scared about socdems that they'll willingly try to keep in a corrupt fascist lady in 2021 what makes you think they supported Sendero back then or now?

>>372395
False dilemma fallacy, this isn't an argument
>>372403
Yes. It's called ML and it actually worked various times in establishing a socialist state. Have you heard of the Cuban Revolution?
The ongoing Filipino Maoist insurgency (though they lack efficacy) still isn't nearly as bloody as the Shining Path in either raw numbers nor by percentage of how many people they killed, and they've been going at it since 1969
>>

 No.372430

>>372418
I am personally not concerned with the ethics of killing children and pregnant women, but if you don't think that events like Lucanamarca or Tarata (along with the carbombs and constant blackouts in the city where most of the population lived) turned off the Peruvian masses you're absolutely delusional lmfao
>>

 No.372435

Lmao, again gonzaloites arguing about the ethics in war
>Fracisco Ciutat de Miguel o Pavel Pavlovich Stepanov o Angel Martinez Riosola, old lieutenaunt colonel in the Spanish Republic, colonel of the Soviet Army in the second world war, mayor general in Cuba, military adviser of the Soviet Union in the Bahia de Cochinos, in the wars of VIetman and Argeliam he was a theorist of the guerrilla war. A guerrilla scholar, had called him Fidel once. Argelia, Vietnam, China, were matter of his analysis and explanations.
>Angelito came with a helper after lunch, put a portable record over one of the compfy armchairs of the table and smoked a big habano, while his monotonous spanish accent rised from the box and we listened sitting, sleepy sometimes ober the other chair on that house that once was from some La Habana's rich families. He carried his speeches taped on a magnophonetic tape to not give himself the job of explaining what surely he said too to other groups, while they taked notes.
>The narrations of Angelito explained who were the night guerrillas of Vietnam, when the farmers did military operations by night, becoming soldiers, and went back to being farmers by day. How the revolutionary movements in China, Argelia, Vietnam had developed. How was the armed propaganda. What were the guerrilas golden rules. And over all, Angelito sustained, one had to win the moral superiority by his own behaviour.
We do not have to conduct ourselves on the farmers as the rectionary armies who rape women, burn houses, kill prisioners, commit atrocities. The facts have to establish the differences , not words nor speeches. The guerrilla wins because is superior, and is superior because its behaviour demonstrates it. Then one has to be very careful from the beggining in how to visit and show to the farmers withouth breaking their customs, what to be done to penetrate that unknown and distinct mass of men and women whose psicology we have to analize and comprehend, respecting their rights, their culture and life. In the beggining we will be ghosts that will march unknown places by night, always by night, always on the jungle (el monte), until the farmers speak of us as the great army of thousands of ghosts and our myth grows of our misterious power born of the shadow. Be clear between us and them is the question.
>We are not the revolution. We are barely the moving spark that runs in the dry straws of the inmense fields. After, when the fieds burn, the guerrilla will be the farmers because the revolution is not for us but for them, and it grows from the social hummmus as a wild flower. When them are the revolutionary army we will have won, We are not, them are the actors of this revolutionary drama. >Passing from the us to them, that is the point: the transfer of the message, the conversion of the speech into action. We can lose so they can win. Our role can be the one of losers, but for others, the great multitude, obtain the final victory, While they are not we will be always in danger because the reactionary armies know that if the guerrilla is not crushed in the beggining, it will never be defeated.
<Hector Bejar, Retorno a la Guerrilla p.145-146
>>

 No.372437

>>372423
>the bourgeoise called the left terrorists
Oh right, must be the only time that has happened.

>it’s called ML have you heard of Cuba

Cuba was a very armed revolution that was much more towards a people’s war than getting the industrial proletariat to revolt lmao. Google foco theory newbie. It’s almost blanquist by comparison

>false dilemma

The same dengoids use when they say we can’t attack China though, I will remember
>>

 No.372441

>>372435
>rape women
SL didn’t do that, next.
>>

 No.372449

>sperging about a label that is widely used in Peru when people talk about Sendero
No argument here
Also, didn't the Cubans actually win and establish a socialist state?
As for the last one, I'm not a dengist by any means, it's not my fault you get shit-talked online by other people though, go cry elsewhere lmfao
>>

 No.372454

>>372449
British call the Ira terrorists as well
>>

 No.372458

>>372441
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/slaves-including-raped-women-and-26-children-rescued-communist-rebel-camp-peru-a6016526.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/slaves-including-raped-women-and-26-children-rescued-communist-rebel-camp-peru-a6016526.html
Right, the same group that had no problems using child soldiers totally didn't conceive those children in a coercive manner, in their jungle hideouts, isolated from the rest of the country
Cope angloid
>>

 No.372461

>>372454
Irrelevant, we're talking about Peru, go online on any video about the topic like the one embedded and you'll undeniably find people referring to them almost exclusively as terrorists, go on any reports about the group and you'll find hate directed to them
https://www.statista.com/statistics/209114/peru-internet-penetration/
>>

 No.372513

>>372458
>believing independent.co.uk journalism on communist movement in [any country]
>>

 No.372537

>>372458
Absolute KEK at the sources quoted in this article:

>Women were raped and forced to work on the farms while their children, some who were born in captivity, were indoctrinated in the group’s ideology,

>said Vice-Defence Minister Ivan Vega Loncharich.

> an insurgency that has seen 70,000 people die or disappear,

>according to Peru’s Truth and Reconciliation Committee.
Truth and Reconciliation committee already thoroughly debunked
>>

 No.372727

>>372200
go away anglo
>>

 No.372728

>>372727
This is an ad hominem
>>

 No.372739

>>372728
ur mom is a ad
>>

 No.373033

>>372537
The Shining Path killing 38% of the people who died in the conflict isn't really much of an improvement over the previous figure of 45%, and 48,000 people dying as opposed to 69,000 is similarly not a "debunking" in any meaningful way Being responsible for 7% less of the deaths is still pretty damn bad considering most of them were most likely proles or peasants (seeing as the Shining Path killed more people in Ayacucho, a poor rural province), as opposed to the state, who did most of their killings in the cities, even then, that survey shown earlier demonstrates that even urban poor did not take a liking to Sendero. Also, in 1992, poll of the urban poor "In your opinion, does Shining Path punish corrupt leaders? 29% of "lower class people" said yes, and 41% said no, 25% didn't answer
Political Violence and the Authoritarian State in Peru, page 116 Table 6.2
I'm not really sure why I keep responding given that there are no arguments being presented aside from "muh reddit," ad hominems and genetic fallacies, keep up though, you may smarten up!
>>

 No.373087

File: 1626126489891-0.jpg ( 113.34 KB , 990x742 , senderoninos.jpg )

File: 1626126489891-1.jpg ( 19.82 KB , 300x350 , peru-ninos-soldado.jpg )

File: 1626126489891-2.png ( 83.91 KB , 680x305 , table62.PNG )

>>

 No.373336

>>373033
Shining path killing less than the state and the state lying about it is important.

>muh polls

Seems to me like 29% of people thought shining path were based killing corrupt leaders.

So what if half the population was reactionary th is is the same as basically anywhere in Latin America outside of Cuba or Venezuela
>>

 No.373359

File: 1626130584984.jpg ( 7.45 KB , 300x168 , download.jpg )

>>373336
>ignoring that nearly half of the population didn't like them
Gringos are a joke, really/truly
>>

 No.373373

>>373359
many governments around the world are formed on a mandate of around 30%
>>

 No.373378

>>373359
you are making out they had no support, clearly, about 30% of the population had good things to say about them.
>>

 No.373398

>>373378
I never said that, I said that it clearly wasn't enough given that they lost, and that Peru was and has been a neoliberal shithole since the 90s due to politicians riding the anti-Sendero wave, as I've stated multiple times before
<Alberto Fujimori ran on a right-populist and "tough on terrorism" campaign in 1990, you can see how from there on out both the president and congress are completely filled with almost pure neoliberals, even during the "Pink Tide," and just recently, a mild socdem, Pedro Castillo, only won by 0.26% against Fujimori's daughter, who is essentially just a political clone
Peru also has rather high election turnout at 82.27%, placing above liberal countries like Sweden, Australia or Denmark where you'd expect such shit, 97% of the population voted in 2000, so the "Voting no, People's War Yes" evidently didn't really get through to the population, demonstrating how they weren't really into the whole movement to begin with
>https://www.electionguide.org/countries/id/170/ https://www.electionguide.org/countries/id/170/
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Peruvian_general_election
>>373373
Not with 47% of people (so more than the 30%) being starkly opposed to that 30% and just about as many people (5.7%) not having an opinion, you don't even have a source
>>

 No.373411

>>373398
Only 5.7% of a difference
>>

 No.373424

>>373398
So all your actually saying is
>they lost
>therefore they are terrorists and murderers and ultralefitsts
>but if they had won it would have been fine.

Retard socialism around the world lost
>>

 No.373491

>>373424
They lost due to their way of being, and Maoists elsewhere haven't won their 40-50+ year long conflicts (whereas China, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia won them within 25-30 years and were constantly making massive gains during the process, as opposed to SL, which fell apart after 1992 and was dead definitively by 2000, and either the Philippines and India which are statistically insignificant in terms of members, sheer land controlled, etc. and are arguably further from winning now than they were initially as well as having been going on for nearly half a century at this point without anything to show for it) because they began an armed struggle prematurely, alienating themselves from the masses
Don't know how "socialism around the world lost" seeing as the USSR was couped/dissolved against popular will, DPRK and Cuba still exist, other countries that weren't as fortunate had market reforms in the late 80s like Vietnam and Laos to deal with the lack of aid offered to them, you seem to just be tossing out word salads and are mad that your worldview is being challenged
>>

 No.373508

>>373424
read the thread faggot
>>

 No.373539

>>373491
>Maoists elsewhere haven't won their 40-50+ year long conflicts (whereas China
kek. Epic gymnastics bruh

>Cambodia

wot

>seeing as the USSR was couped/dissolved against popular will

so was socialism all across Latin America, which includes the shining path, the fact that the glowies won doesn't matter.
>>

 No.373586

>>373539
What gymnastics?
Filipinos have been fighting since March 29th, 1969
Indians have been fighting since May 18th,1967
China started in Aug 1, 1927 and the war was over on Dec 7th, 1949
That's a victory in 22 years versus the 52 and 54 year long conflicts that have brought no fruit from both of those insurgencies
>wot
Cambodia fought from January 17th,1968 to April 17th, 1975, that's a victory in 7 years
>so was socialism all across Latin America
Socdems are not socialists you retard
>>

 No.373602

>>373586
>China started in Aug 1, 1927 and the war was over on Dec 7th, 1949
yes and you said Maoists have never won. Clearly this is cope, as Mao is obviously the main thinker to do with Maoism you helmet

>Socdems are not socialists you retard

kek who are you calling a socdem and not a socialist?
>>

 No.373611

>>373602
Mao was not a Maoist dipshit
>>

 No.373613

>>373602
Chinese Revolution was ML or ML-MZT not MLM, cope
>>

 No.373627

>>373602
retard moment lmfao
>>

 No.373647

>>

 No.373661

>>373611
>>373613
mao is MLM :^)
>>

 No.373694

>>373611
oh, did i say that, quote me where I said it
>>

 No.373728

>>373661
Nope, Lenin was not a Marxist Leninist, Mao was not a Marxist Leninist Maoist, he was a Marxist Leninist, the CPC was never "MLM" they were ML and today adhere to ML-MZT
>>373694
"Maoists have never won"
"clearly this is cope, as Mao is the main thinker to do with Maoism"
You either have a learning disability or can't read, because the only interpretation given there is that the Chinese Revolution was a Marxist Leninist Maoist one, when it wasn't, it was a Marxist Leninist one
>>

 No.373792

>>373728
For all their faults Marxism Leninism Maoists did topple one of the last bastions of absolutism of the world in Nepal
>>

 No.373899

>>373792
To then became socdems not so different than the MAS in Bolivia and even less radical than Chavez.

Credit were credit is due, but one has to be honest when is selling a cake and instead gives a halfbaked one.
>>

 No.373952

>>373728
mao is MLM :^)
>>

 No.373986

>>373952
>Searching for mao calling himself a maoist
lMAO
>>

 No.374122

>>373728
>the CPC […] today adhere to ML-MZT
That's in name only. Deng abolished most MZT practices by 1978. MZT was replaced by Socialism With Chinese Characteristics (SWCC).

ML-MZT was continued with the International Conference of Marxist–Leninist Parties and Organizations (International Newsletter), which was an international grouping of political parties and organizations adhering to Mao Zedong Thought that lasted from 1998 to 2011. In 2011 it was practically replaced by an international that merged the ML-MZT and ML-Hoxhaist tendencies into a general Marxist-Leninist anti-revisionist international called International Coordination of Revolutionary Parties and Organizations (ICOR).
>>

 No.374148

>>373899
>To then became socdems not so different than the MAS in Bolivia and even less radical than Chavez.
You have a point but could they really do anything else with RSS/BJP/comprador led India breathing down their necks?
>>

 No.374161

>>374122
My point was that they were never Maoist in the MLM sense, as in, the Filipino, Indian, Peruvian, Nepalese versions.
>>

 No.374470

>>367260
He's not Jewish you faggot. He is, however a Chicago boy and is going to lead Castillo's economic policy along those lines.
>>

 No.374809

>>374470
Then why the ((()))? You just could have said that he is a Chicago boy kek
And he isn't even a Chicago boy, that would be someone like Castilla, if you remember Humala's era. Or what is your pick for economic minister?s
http://pedrofrancke.com/2021/06/12/nuevos-rumbos-en-la-economia-por-donde/
>>

 No.375552

>>373728
>Mao is the main thinker to do with Maoism"
is not the same as Mao was a Maoist and is a true statement
>>

 No.375567

Castillo's economics guy is literally from the world bank lol
>>

 No.375619

>>375552
Mao being the main thinker of Maoism is not a "win" for MLM (As in Peru, Philippines, India, Nepal) You were implying that MLM is somehow proven by the successes of Mao and the Chinese revolution, which are not, just as the efficacy of ML is not proven by the Russian revolution, the same applies for China, get it through your skull
>>

 No.376861

>>373986
mao is MLM :^)
>>

 No.376867

File: 1626254696700.jpg ( 42.86 KB , 514x536 , 3ead32fa19e04c21e92c23e85f….jpg )

>>369323
I HATE GLOWING GRINGOS
I HATE GLOWING GRINGOS
I HATE GLOWING GRINGOS
I HATE GLOWING GRINGOS
I HATE GLOWING GRINGOS
I HATE GLOWING GRINGOS
>>

 No.377340

File: 1626279612598.gif ( 466.02 KB , 445x272 , lmao.gif )

>>376861
>Marx was a marxist
>Lenin was a leninist
>Mao was a maoist
>>

 No.377700

>>377340
mao is MLM :^)
>>

 No.377732

File: 1626289708059.gif ( 2.15 MB , 480x366 , lmao3.gif )

>>377700
>Marx was a marxist
>Lenin was a leninist
>Mao was a maoist
>>

 No.377749

>>377732
MLM is mao :^)
>>

 No.377761

File: 1626290775859.gif ( 466.02 KB , 445x272 , lmao.gif )

>>377749
>Marx was a marxist
>Lenin was a leninist
>Mao was a maoist
>>

 No.378923

>>377761
your mother is mao :^)
>>

 No.378980

File: 1626323660650.gif ( 2.15 MB , 480x366 , lmao3.gif )

>>

 No.379541

>>378980
MLM is your mother :^)
>>

 No.379577

File: 1626361088227.gif ( 2.15 MB , 480x366 , lmao3.gif )

>>

 No.380563

File: 1626392698876.jpg ( 1.09 MB , 4096x2730 , castillo dengpilled.jpg )

ANTI-DENG BROS…
>>

 No.380574

>>380563
>two opportunists shaking hands
what else is new
>>

 No.380626

One month and still no head of state, no chief of state in Peru.
>>

 No.380788

>>380626
Keiko's lawyers and pawns in the electoral tribunal were triying to slow the heck out of the process.
News is that next week they are going to announce the winner (which would give them 6 days to do the transfer of power).

Getting closer to China and Russia is a given of course, one of the first moves in international relations was announcing that we would receive Sputnik V. And well, we have deals with Sinopharm (who stood the vacccination scandal).
>>

 No.380808

>>380574
cope gringo
>>

 No.380908

File: 1626406256860.jpg ( 790.54 KB , 3024x4032 , walter 02.jpg )

No entiendo nada en esta thread, voy a hablar en español para que los peruanos me respondadn

>¿Quien es Gonzalo y porque Sendero Luminoso es tan terrible?

>¿Por quien votaron?
>¿Creen que Castillo podra ser presidente o Fujimori hara algo raro y se lo impedira?
>¿Como ven a Peru en el 2022?
>>

 No.380915

>>380574
opportunists is your mother :^)
>>

 No.380969

>>

 No.381619

>>338089
No but leftoids, scratch that, liberals, like to call everything a coup.
>>

 No.381799

>>380908
>Lee el hilo, y las criticas hacia los gonzaloistas. La mitad creo que se ha ido en eso.
>No es obvio?
>Si, por lo que se ha visto estos ultimos dias estan de capa caida los fujis.
>Algo mejor creo yo, la vacunacion va a buena velocidad y eso al menos permitirá que el trabajar sea mas aguantable.
>>

 No.382601

>>380908
Un ANGLO huevon no puede aceptar la evidencia que su envidia del pene para Sendero no es compartido por los peruanos
>>

 No.382630

File: 1626484444545.mp4 ( 21.88 MB , 1440x1080 , hahahahahahaha.mp4 )

>>382601
Ptm jajajajaja
>>

 No.382678

gonzalo was based, simple as.
>>

 No.382711

File: 1626488868027.jpg ( 7.25 KB , 221x228 , glowing.jpg )

>>

 No.382725

>>382711
name literally 1 (O N E) thing he did that wasn't based. i'll wait.
>>

 No.382786

File: 1626492489256.gif ( 321.36 KB , 220x185 , risitas.gif )

>>

 No.382791

>>382725
>The baby boiler has entered the chat
>>

 No.383725

>>

 No.383774

>>

 No.387521

File: 1626698172237.jpg ( 46.96 KB , 500x500 , elANLGO.jpg )

>>382725
Otro GRINGO ANGLO que se larga con la cola entre sus piernas ya que no tiene nada que decir
vete a la mrd caFAGGOTo yanqui
>>

 No.387552

>>380563
Nah he just being nice to usa 2
>>

 No.388423

File: 1626731578460.png ( 47.87 KB , 586x309 , Screenshot_20210719_234124.png )

>In fact, they are not even capitalists or neoliberals but merely vulgar mercantilists and plunderers of this country, would capitalism have done what they pretend, Peru would be a much different society, we would have a national bourgeoisie, educated and with a patriotic sense. They have failed and it's time they admitted it.
What did Vladimir Cerrón mean by this? Is Perú Libre part of the Deng gang?
>>

 No.388655

OUR BOY WON
>>

 No.388657

File: 1626741524763-0.jpg ( 12.82 KB , 387x226 , we did it.jpg )

File: 1626741524764-1.mp4 ( 142.22 KB , 360x270 , -lb15ziSOZLgxEjn.mp4 )

>>388655
FINALMENTE
>>

 No.388660

>>388423
They are Mariateguists, and Mariategui talks a lot about the fact that latam porkies don't even see themselves as latinos (pointing the gusanos decades before) so it's near impossible for a national bourgeoisie to really develop.
>>

 No.388662

Si alguien quiere poner cytube, hay transmisiones en vivo por youtube.
>>

 No.388663

Ejemplo
>>

 No.388665

Reminder that castillo is a revisionist
>>

 No.388667

>>388665
Reminder to support antiimperialist socdems.
Maotists GTFO
>>

 No.388668

I believe hispachan must be seething
>>

 No.388677

>>388668
Go check and report back
>>

 No.388678

>>388660
I was trying to bait but thanks for the serious answer.
>>

 No.388688

>>388668
Fuck hispachan.
That place is full of reactionary faggots.

I would understand if they were , bourgeois but most of them are either lumpen, NEET's or low pay wageslaves.
>>

 No.388689

EL MAESTRO CASTILLO NUESTRO PRESIDENTE
>>

 No.388694

>>388689
LAPICITOOOOOO
>>

 No.388697

Ya la maldita Keiko va a prisión o no? Quiere ser presidenta? Que sea la presidenta del pabellón.
>>

 No.388719

So is he going to implement socialist policies or what's happening?
>>

 No.388723

>>388719
I believe expect Correa levels, the party wants to go like Bolivia but it is locked by the oposition and the constitution.
30 years of neoliberalism will not fall in one day.
>>

 No.388871

>>388655
>>388663
>>388689
ABOUT FUCKING TIME
FUCK ALL THE GLOWING GRINGOS
>>

 No.388879

File: 1626748309030.gif ( 103.54 KB , 225x300 , jimmydore.gif )

>>388655
AWESOME Viva el Perú. Saludos desde la patria Grande.
>>

 No.388928

>>388723
>I believe expect Correa levels, the party wants to go like Bolivia but it is locked by the oposition and the constitution.
What do you make of Castillo's statements regarding Cerrón? Cerrón stands for those Bolivarian positions and Castillo completely smeared and distanced himself from him publicly.
>>

 No.388977

File: 1626749917669.jpg ( 146.9 KB , 766x737 , la union.jpg )

>>388928
Just words for the center, giving them too much is dangerous, giving them little too. If not check how many have broken their shirts hearing about the new constitution But meeting between the two have continued, and from what I have seen the party has grown.

If you believe in lawfare, expect a lot from now on.
>>

 No.389021

>>388977
Wow that is actually a relief. I didn't expect that they did this as a tactic. Smart move honestly, since the past weeks have been so tumultuous.
>>

 No.389045

File: 1626751380276.png ( 810.93 KB , 1389x765 , unknown (3).png )

Kek at retard neolibs who think property rights are at the top of poor peoples worries
>>

 No.389099

>>388977
"The unity of the party, the government, and the people, guarantees real democracy. The people have brought to the government, a real son of the masses"
"Victory is certain! The first president of the Constitutional Republic from the people assumes governance and marks the Bicentennial."
>>

 No.389173

>>388668
Well /pe/ is on suicide watch right now, which brings me joy.
>>

 No.389276

I'm legit surprised that the Peruvian government actually did act like a democracy is supposed to do and prevent reactoid coups. The dipshits will keep trying no doubt and might very well succeed, but the fact that a liberal democracy put up a fight at all for the sake of a duly elected commie is something I never expected.
>>

 No.389870

bump
>>

 No.389877

>>389276
They probably know a coup would bring about another Shining Path type movement
>>

 No.393274

Now that Castillo's win was finally recognized the real challenge begins. He will be inaugurated in a week, let's hope for the best.
>>

 No.393816

>>389276
Commies get duly elected all the time in LatAm. The true question is whether they can fight against the inevitable US coups.
>>

 No.396592

>>389276
>>389877
>prevent reactoid coups
That shit was never going to happen in the first place, they where just ripping off brazil. After when keiko lost all support and US didn't want to fuck shit up for once since their Bolivia coup failed and now there now busy with cuba, she had no chance for a coup unlike the fear mongering gringos said in this thread
>>

 No.397632

Washington post editorial be like:
>Vuvuzela Vuzuzela moderate or I will call my dad!
>>

 No.406901

File: 1627468320804.jpg ( 69.89 KB , 1227x746 , morales and castillo.jpg )

>>

 No.407322

Holy shit he's DABBING on spain
>>

 No.407436

File: 1627496493218.jpg ( 162.92 KB , 1242x699 , E7ZnzoqXsAE6fXQ.jpg )

>>

 No.407570

>>407322
That speech was based, praised the Incas, praised Tupac Amaru, praised the peasants and he even said that Europe got rich exploiting the third world. Way more to the left than I expected.
>>

 No.407726

And looks like he is /train/gang as well, declared that internet would be a right and not a service, that the process to begin a constituent assembly will be done and that the Pizarro's house/palace will be turned into a museum.

This has been a fun thread. Peru finally has something apart from neoliberalism. And while I don't think that this will be a bed of roses since nothing comes perfect and life and history are just constant struggle, it is an amazing advance, hell, the Lima group has lost Lima lmao.
Anyway, if something happens, I will post it in the latam thread, if anyone cares.
>>

 No.407745

File: 1627507678289.png ( 5.25 MB , 2199x2608 , ClipboardImage.png )

>>389045
>Hernando de Soto
literally the name of a fucking conquistador
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hernando_de_Soto
He was instrumental in conquering the Inca and probably responsible for introducing Eurasian plagues to North America.
>>

 No.407756

>>407745
In reality he is just Hernando Soto, but for the aristocratic feeling he adopted the "de".

Also those 3 attempts are lies, at most it was one.
>>

 No.407786

>>407726
>This has been a fun thread. Peru finally has something apart from neoliberalism. And while I don't think that this will be a bed of roses since nothing comes perfect and life and history are just constant struggle, it is an amazing advance, hell, the Lima group has lost Lima lmao.
Anyway, if something happens, I will post it in the latam thread, if anyone cares.
I do care, comrade. I would love to read anything from Peru in the Latam thread and see Castillo's evolution. Give him a chance, and try to organize yourself with comrades. Try to understand when the problem is capitalistic in nature, and criticize where it is indeed criticizable.
>>

 No.407917

File: 1627513276540.gif ( 170.78 KB , 500x280 , at-jake HAPPY GASP.gif )

>>

 No.409694

Pedro Castillo Appoints Socialist As Prime Minister
https://kawsachunnews.com/pedro-castillo-appoints-socialist-as-prime-minister

<President Pedro Castillo has appointed Guido Bellido as Prime Minister, the second most powerful role in government. Bellido is a senior leader for the socialist Perú Libre party. The move is a first sign from the new President on the direction of his government.


<Guido Bellido is the General Secretary for Perú Libre in the city of Cusco. He’s indigenous Quechua and an economist by profession. The party labels itself as Marxist-Leninist and presented Pedro Castillo as its presidential candidate, despite that Castillo was not a member of the party prior to the campaign.


<Perú Libre invited him in due to the high profile he gained as a leader of the 2017 teachers’ strikes. Many believed that since Castillo was not a member, he would govern to the right of what the party was hoping for. The appointment of Bellido shatters some of those hopes of the opposition and of Castillo’s more centrist supporters.


<Bellido is a close ally of Vladimir Cerrón, leader of Perú Libre, who has been endlessly vilified by the country’s media barons due to his policy positions which include support for Cuba and Venezuela, as well as sweeping nationalizations.


<Elite interests are hoping that social democratic economist Pedro Francke will be appointed Economy Minister as he’s been seen as a moderating influence within the left for a number of years.



I think we were too cocky Gonzalobros…
>>

 No.409698

File: 1627596204717.jpg ( 27.55 KB , 630x419 , 60c3853d410000ac08812193.jpg )

>>409694
ANOTHER WIN FOR PENCIL GUY!
>>

 No.409701

File: 1627596317913.jpg ( 47.89 KB , 538x662 , Guido_Bellido.jpg )

>>409694
>Guido Bellido
>In May 2021, the Office of the Prosecutor Against Terrorism opened an investigation against Guido Bellido for the alleged crime of "apology to terrorism", following his video where he showed sympathy for the actions of the Shining Path.

Based or Cringe, /leftypol/?
>>

 No.409704

>>409694
>>409701
too cocky or not cocky enough? i dunno. i just want peoples war tbh
>>

 No.409714

File: 1627596615267.jpg ( 235.64 KB , 1280x720 , guido-bellido-afp-1014469-….jpg )

>>409701
Am I crazy or does Bellido kind of look like Xi in this picture
>>

 No.409719

>>409714
Have we ever seen Xi and Bellido in the same room at the same time?
>>

 No.410131

File: 1627608522218.png ( 65.46 KB , 585x449 , Screenshot_20210730_032742.png )

First test for Castillo, we will see if he holds strong or yields to the centrists.
>>

 No.410424

File: 1627619862187.png ( 36.33 KB , 580x367 , santi.png )

>Pedro Castillo, more of anti-Spanish Black Legend and, probably, null results in the improvement of the standard of living of Peruvians at the end of his mandate. Save this tweet if you please.
>And he blames Spain for it. More of the same.
wtf is this chauvinistic bs within spanish marxists?
>>

 No.410429

>>410424
>wtf is this chauvinistic bs within spanish marxists?
idk probably related to the chauvinistic bs within the western left in general
>>

 No.410430

>>410131
oh shit it's happening
>>410424
I'm not sure how a 'marxist' european can be such a nationalist in regards to its former colonies
>>

 No.410435

File: 1627620321791.png ( 233.44 KB , 341x278 , ClipboardImage.png )

>>410424
colonizer moment
>>

 No.410549

>>410131
Francke is literally a Chicago school economist
>>

 No.410552

>>410549
That's why Castillo is giving him the boot lmao.
>>

 No.410562

>>410552
G-glowzalobros I don't feel so good…
>>

 No.410580

I'm worried bros let's be honest here Castillo didn't win because Peru loves socialism n shiet Castillo won because fucking Keiko is the literal devil incarnate.

I'm worried that if Castillo starts doing socialist shit he will be coup'd in no time and the population will support that. Maybe some Peru bros can help us understand the situation.
>>

 No.411396

File: 1627669866303.png ( 45.04 KB , 573x359 , Screenshot_20210730_202904.png )

<Highlights from President Pedro Castillo's new cabinet:

<Women's Minister: Anahí Durand, prominent feminist & LGBT advocate


<Foreign Minister: Héctor Béjar Rivera, Marxist Sociology Professor, a supporter of Cuba & Venezuela
>>

 No.411406

>>411396
What but I thought Pedro was a hecking red fascist class collaboration evil bad manirnio?
>>

 No.411407

The Castillo government is already collapsing. Fuck this electoral shit, Maoism is literally the only way
>>

 No.411410

>>411407
>The Castillo government is already collapsing
Is it really though?
>>

 No.411413

>>411410
It's more doomer nonsense from the same fags that try to put epic chad memes next to their asinine opinions.
>>

 No.411424

>>411410
Yes it is.
>>

 No.411430

>>411424
Why is it collapsing?
>>

 No.411433

>>411407
>Castillo is collapsing
>He's actually way more socialist than expected
Maoist cope again.
>>

 No.411434

>>411430
his main minister is a shinning path apologist and even leftists here have stopped to support him, the economy has collapsed after the minister got elected and people are angry
>>

 No.411437

>>411433
he has lost at least half of his popular support and even Cesar Hildebrant. a pro-Velasco and anti-Fujimori leftist has dropped his support after castillo elected his shinning path minister, is over the timer has been set prepare for another political crisis, not even the peruvian glowies aka GEIN nor a huge chunk of the army supports him and most of them have sent ultimatums
>>

 No.411439

It's over.. it has collapsed…
>>

 No.411442

File: 1627671576879.png ( 151.23 KB , 666x507 , F.B.AAAAAAAAAAA.png )

picrel ITT
you can die mad glowuyghurs
>>

 No.411443

>>411439
>It's over.. it has collapsed…
It hasn't collapsed
>>

 No.411446

>>411437
This is what happens when you that the financial times's opinion on a socialist seriously
>>

 No.411450

.
The only way for castillo to have any congress support was to appoint some centrist liberal as prime minister, instead he put some maoist pro shinning path guy and now he'll probably be removed soon by the congress.

You literally can't win, you either go lib or get removed/impeached
>>

 No.411463

>>411443
His support has dropped and even leftists want his head
>>

 No.411579

File: 1627679360023.jpg ( 175.17 KB , 1237x1417 , E7kKGTyWUAItiYP.jpg )

Castillo is both cucked and based at the same time
>shinning path guy as prime minister
>cuban guerrilla guy as minister of international relationships
>>

 No.411598

Castillo is attempting an unironic Proletarian Cultural Revolution in Peru, I'm scared, the CIA is gonna coup /ourguy/ any second now.
>>

 No.411620

>>411598
>Castillo is attempting an unironic Proletarian Cultural Revolution in Peru, I'm scared, the CIA is gonna coup /ourguy/ any second now.
I am scared may Castillo destroy Peruvian reaction
>>

 No.411694

Well, looks like we end up starting with the left foot. It is not a collpase like some idiots are saying here, but more of a tense standoff/break of the alliance between the center,center left and Peru Libre.
Pretty unnecessary if you ask me. I think they should have waited to a more agressive attack by congress, you know, for the looks. (But one can say that an attack like that has happened, since in the 28th Alva just shrug off Sagasti of the proclamation, giving them bad light).
One can try to rationalize the situation with this thought. Goverments, being centerleft or rightwing normally have a honeymoon period with the bourgueoise and the media, and with high popularity. This can be used for risky political manouvers, like putting a cabinet for political conflict (a kamikaze cabinet one can called it) and simply burn in congress, wasting one of the two denials of trust by congress to put them against the corner, for them not to get too cocky becuase while Peru Libre is in a minority there, a supposed center center right coalition doesn't have enough votes for a presidential vacancy.
The problem is that one can act that way if you have total confidence/agreement with the members of said cabinet. Looks like Quijano and Francke were against it, since they didn't wanted to be in a cabinet with Bellido as head (since the press and others have pointed to past declarations as senderophile the infamous terrorism apology laws are going after him, homophobic, caviarphobic, etc,etc,etc).

So we are here.
Oh and there was a mild earthquake to top the cake.
>>

 No.411708

Translating a good political comentary, pretty much calling for healing the wounds.

Once again: a left-wing government with a broad social and political base is needed. Compromises and social change are needed at the same time. The current cabinet needs Pedro Francke in the MEF. The economic program of reactivation with health made by Francke is that of Peru Libre and its allies.

A policy of isolation only serves the right wing and leads to giving it the victory it did not get at the polls. If it is not possible to attract Pedro Francke and similar sectors, the less will it be possible to attract other sectors, more to the center and to the right. How to govern without alliances?

Let us hope, then, that conditions have been created for Pedro Francke to return to the cabinet and start working for the reactivation with health and the relaunching of the popular economy. In economy it is very clear and consensual what has to be done, an expansive policy in favor of the social majorities.
>>

 No.411919

>>411708
Just make an alliance and become a liberal!
Just put the literal chicago boy and world bank shill in charge of the ' anti imperialist' economy.
The absolute state of electoralism
>>

 No.411995

Looks like Francke is back on track. Peru moves towards Keynesianism with Dengist characteristics.
>Econ. Pedro Francke has all our support for the application of the economic program of stability expressed in the Bicentury plan for 0 corruption in the country.
>We will work together and in unity for the motherland
https://twitter.com/GuidoPuka/status/1421270008135622663?s=09
Lmao at the profile pic. And the twitte name translates to Red Guido (GuidoPuka)
>>

 No.412137

>>411579
to put it simple what castillo did is the equvalent of naming a holocaust denier as minister, in germany, also several people who voted for him in hope to get jobs in the state or to be named public funcionaries are pussed so the reaction has a high chance if winning as the average peruvian is highly reactionary
>>

 No.412143

>>410424
>bs within spanish marxists?
I highly doubt he's marxist.
>>

 No.412168

Pussy succdem government incoming
>>

 No.412175

>>412168
no, rather it will be another political crisis people are already pissed, he has thrown to the trash the only reason why people voted for him, becoming a socdem and kicking off cerron and Bermejo
>>

 No.412179

>>411579
This guy looks like he's ready to kill porkies
>>

 No.412180

>>411439
>>410580
>I'm worried bros let's be honest here
stfu fear mongers
>>

 No.412182

>>411919
>>411919
Dude if they don't do this the CIA will kill our guy in Peru.

It's not the best but it's much better than Keiko and the extreme right in power.
>>

 No.412184

Maoism!!!
>>

 No.412205

>>412143
that guy is a "marxist intellectual" and has some nice takes, but his defense of the Spanish Empire as a "progressive force" is just cringe and pointless
>>

 No.412208

>>412182
cia is incompetent and absolutelly cucked they wont do shit
>>

 No.412210

File: 1627705039918.png ( 182.37 KB , 370x385 , 1344988864299.png )

>>412205
>marxist intellectual
>economist
>>

 No.412272

File: 1627707999520.webm ( 354.74 KB , 480x360 , parece mucho hurra!.webm )

>>412208
Says the guy who hasn't been near all the shit that happened in Bolivia.
>>412184
Parece mucho alboroto solo por una pequeña eleccion.
>>

 No.412497

I fear for Pedro CHADstillo not having a majority, but as of now he didn't do cuck shit IMHO.
>>

 No.413067

File: 1627745818388.jpg ( 103.57 KB , 1098x672 , ministros pedro castillo.jpg )

Limoids eternally BTFO.
>>411579
>glowies try to coup Castillo
>he summons the ronderos for a civil war
>the right cucks, ANtauro makes the military divided
>the prime minister assumes office and declares Peru a maoist country
>in the end, electoralism made the senderos win
PLEASE, LET ME HAVE THIS KINO
>>

 No.413132

>>413067
>he summons the ronderos for a civil war
>the right cucks, ANtauro makes the military divided
tha airforce, Navy and especial forces are against castillo, about the ground military even shinning path militants told that they where "masters in defeat" guerrillas in peru where defeated by special forces trained by the CIA so castillo will be another allende
>>

 No.413227

>>410424
Spaniards are super racist towards Latin Americans

they don't go to LatAm spaces even on the Internet and consider LatAm countries not Spanish post-colonial cultures but natives adopting some of Spanish traditions

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