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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1623187796461.png ( 286.69 KB , 576x566 , privilege.png )

 No.305951[View All]

aka /leftypol/: An Exploration into the Causes and Effects of Identity Politics.
Let's get to the bottom of identity politics, bane of the radical left and blockade to normie socialism.

ITT post about idpol and anti-idpol.
Post literature, effortposts, infographics, etc.
Post about what idpol is, the history of idpol, idpol today, the problems with it, and how to deal with it.

The point of this thread is to develop our discourse on the topic. Currently the meaning of idpol and many people's understanding of it is extremely nebulous. This is a problem for us in addressing it in general. It is a problem for the mods appropriately moderating it. It's a problem for users knowing what posts are good. Most importantly it's an obstacle to people knowing what kind of theory is sensible and based versus what is idpozzed and cringe. Most of us will agree that idpol is a problem the left deals with to some degree more or less online or in real life. It is both an inferior understanding of politics and a way of baiting people. What we sometimes don't agree on is what idpol is and how it works. That's what this thread is for: fleshing out our discourse so that we can better combat liberalism (and other right wing politics) and promote communism.
343 posts and 42 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.387372

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 No.387384

>>375397
>This imperialism meme is clearly used against communist regimes like China and now Cuba.
Neither Cuba nor China are imperialist, and neither are "regimes" , why are you using glowy talk ?
>Its idpol if not thoroughly materialist and related to porky class interests.
The theory of Imperialism is indeed materialist, but it is not id-pol those are mutually exclusive.

>>378523
>IDPOL ceased to be a positive movement that set out to teach tolerance and acceptance some time around 2012.
You think it wasn't rotten before 2012 ?
I'm curious as to why you think that, you can find criticisms of Idpol reaching as far back as the 1980s. You could say that they lacked the power to be as destructive as they are now and maybe had to be more restrained. But clearly the identity centric theories are fundamentally broken.
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 No.387912

>>306299
Maybe one’s use of language doesn’t need to cater to the homosexual identity 24/7.
Get over yourself.
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 No.387916

>>375432
I don’t care about your identity problems. Buy a gun.
What matters is economic self interest, and by extension collective class interest.
Nothing more. Nothing less.
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 No.387938

>>335063
Rejecting idpol ‘Marxists’, queer theorists and ethnonationalists of all stripes from socialist organizing for starters. Basically the entire ‘progressive(TM)’ stack.
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 No.387947

>>387938
and of course reactionary idpol, such as anti queer faggots
right? :-)
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 No.387950

maybe you, poster number >>387912, should stop being such a faggot.
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 No.387957

>>387912
why does it have to cater to your hetero identity, subhuman?
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 No.387974

File: 1626716655271.png ( 143.31 KB , 784x920 , 569-03495-0345.png )

The "anti-idpol" left wants a kind of vulgar "True Marxism" to remain a vague, never-to-be-actualized, never to-be-questioned *thing* that they wave around, which stands for their (understandable) but ultimately reactionary hatred of everything as it is. But there are communists in governments right now, and they actually exist. There's your "true Marxism," and their relationship to these groups is dependent on those groups' relationships to their struggles, which they are conducting.

>BLM's statement noted that the Cuban people are "being punished" by the U.S. government because the nation has maintained its commitment to "sovereignty and self-determination." "United States leaders have tried to crush this revolution for decades." "Instead of international amity, respect, and goodwill, the U.S. government has only instigated suffering for the country's 11 million people—of which 4 million are Black and Brown."

>The Official IG for the Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation recalled that Cuba has "historically demonstrated solidarity with oppressed peoples of African descent" and supported liberation struggles in several African countries.
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 No.387982

>>387974
But have you stopped beating your wife yet?
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 No.387987

>>387982
when will you stop being a subhuman?
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 No.387988

>>387982
No, nor will I stop
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 No.387994

>>387938
Yea seems like a good way to isolate yourself and become a sect disconnected from the masses obsessing over peripheral issues rather than class struggle.
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 No.387996

>>387982
Why yes, I am an English football fan, how can you tell?
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 No.388001

File: 1626717201517.jpg ( 43.68 KB , 600x933 , 240.jpg )

>This is really an exemplary post. How do you lack this much self-awareness to complain about "idpol" but than you keep using homophobic slurs, which is precisely the type of behavior that makes homosexuals turn to idpol for answers? We live in a world where dominant demographics mistreat less powerful demographics (not just based on class) and they are expected to take it. "They looked like normal workers," and who says everything has to suit your heterosexual sensibilities? I know that my views are not accepted on your little imageboard for shut ins anyways, but if there is ever going to be a socialist revolution. then the content on here is evidence that all the problems liberal "idpol" addresses is still going to be a problem, because you as supposed communists engage in mistreatment towards these demographics. So how is it solely capitalism's fault that racism, sexism, homophobia exists, if after a socialist revolution people like you are around? One day you people must realize that these issues stand on their own and can't all be reduced to class and capitalism.
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 No.388002

>>387994
socialism in one brain
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 No.388003

>>377907
Not even Belgium can explain Belgium.
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 No.388124

>>308616
Underrated post.
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 No.388142

>>387994
>rejecting peripheral issues over class struggle
>obsessing over peripheral issues rather than class struggle
I don't get it, how does one become the other?
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 No.388165

>>388142
You play the idpol game in any way you will eventually be in. Lenin hand-waved freud's theories as bourgeois distraction while concentrating on the work still aiming to understand the world and the humans in it (correct position), now imagine if he called for a ban of every Marxists trying to understand the human mind in his organization while writing entire essays about how communists shouldn't believe in psychology because it would mean they are degenerates trying to fuck their mothers (incorrect position, maybe no USSR)
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 No.388287

>>388165
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but it seems you're actually retarded.
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 No.388568

>>388287
>it seems you're actually retarded.
This is a very psychological analysis, bourgeois thinking stuff, you know I wanted to fight for the future of the human species toward communism but now that you angered me I'm gonna write a thousand page essay about people being mean to each other from a marxist point of view
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 No.390577

>>305966
retarded take
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 No.390604

>>387974
Silly BLM, elections are over.

>>388003
Exlain Switzerland, or the Russian federation, or India.
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 No.390674

>>383857
remove everything except classism and this picture would be 100 percent accurate
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 No.390676

>>387974
BLM gets money from the Ford Foundation

So there's your "idpol left" for you.
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 No.391261

It will eventually consume the American left too, because American (and other northern-european and anglo) society is fundamentally obsessed with the idea of race and ancestry.
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 No.391523

>>391261
This is an essentialist misunderstanding , the race idpol is manufactured by the capitalist spectacle, it isn't organically generated by society.
>>388124
No it's fair to consider radlibs to be part of the neoliberal spectrum because the identities are structurally class collaborationist. The identities negate class distinctions, you can't tell whether some body is a capitalist or whether somebody is a worker based on their identity. It's not just bad from a class struggle point of view to define people by their identities, it's also morally wrong: You should only define people by their own actions not a identitarian association, because that's the only way to avoid creating prejudices.

If they could create separate identities for workers and capitalists so that it doesn't negate class, we could maybe reconsider assigning radlibs to the neoliberal spectrum. Even with that improvement, identitarian thinking would still remain degrading and tendencially prejudicial.
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 No.391550

>>391523
>the neoliberal spectrum
Please stop this idiocy, you are diluting a useful word to complete meaninglessness. Neoliberalism is a specific economic ideology used to justify offshoring, globalization, and financialization in response to capitalism's crisis in the '70s. It's not whatever the fuck aspect of capitalism you don't like. Just say capitalism itself if that's what you want to critique.
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 No.391569

File: 1626847780747.png ( 623.32 KB , 400x2102 , zizek_money.png )

>>390676
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 No.391623

>>377907
>There is a reason why every single group of people, everywhere on the planet and at all ages made a religion. Our brains are made in a way that give us a need for purpose, for a greater explaination.
>There is a reason why they also organized in tribes/clans/nations/whatever. Our brains are made to think in term of "us" and "them". It take effort to overcome that and only genetically engineering ourselves will change it.
Here's the reason why you are not a Marxist but a liberal piece of shit, also the reason why supporting any kind of idpol aside for realpolitik is not something healty nor beneficial.
Human did that shit not because muh brainz work that way but because of material conditions at that time made such that society was organized a certain way.
You view of humanity is idealist like every other idpoler faggot. You don't belong here
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 No.391642

File: 1626852976951.jpeg ( 63.38 KB , 1027x384 , Epie5WUXMAAF9b2.jpeg )

Can you explain me why some "comrades" have an understanding of colonialism that has more to do with Gnosticism than Materialism?
Why colonialism has become the original sin ?
I often here even smart fellows end up in the rabbit hole with some spooky shit on "muh ancestors" "muh white people" "muh post colonial identity".
Why is colonialism worse than say slaves societies which non european countries had?
Every system (feudal, clan, slave ecc.) Has been imposed through conquering, war, competition, capitalism did the same. Colonialism is a consequence of capitalism.
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 No.391659

>>391550
Nah, it's uniquely neoliberal because it erases class distinctions and antagonisms and instead "fights for the dignity of ALL humans, regardless of race, sex, class, etc etc". Before, capitalist ideology was very self-aware of class antagonism. Now, saying worker, employee, owner, boss, etc is almost a dirty word.
Managers are there to make you flourish as much as possible, instead of telling you what to do. Etc etc. This is all neoliberalism.
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 No.391670

>>391642
It's white patronizing of "uncivilized" eg orientalism, but made woke and internalized.
Zizek has a hilarious video where he demarcates west Europe from east Europe. He says "on this side (the west) women get raped, it's horrible. But on this side (the east) women get raped but they like it". Something to that effect. idk I find it useful to think about this internalized noble savage shit.
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 No.391708

>>391670
https://youtu.be/bwDrHqNZ9lo
Lmao
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 No.391778

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 No.391796

>>391642
This just sounds like a repackaged Christian concept of original sin…
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 No.391797

>>391642
Also what non-European civilizations had chattel slavery? Mine did have something askin to serfdom.
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 No.391803

>>306299
>"They looked like normal workers," and who says everything has to suit your heterosexual sensibilities
Just what the fuck does a gay man look like?
Is it San Francisco gay club circa 1990?
Is it "wear the rainbow patch" says porky?
Pretending that "homosexuals turned to idpol for answers" is disingenuous at the very best. Closer, rather, idpol is some disgusting bureaucracy that is absorbing every group of people that an American focus group traditionally wouldn't like.
Further to you last point, "racism, sexism, homophobia" are social constructs which will exist as long as race and gender exist. The problem with capitalism is that business have repeatedly been shown to inflame racial tensions more often than they alleviate. The number of Americans that hate Mexicans because they drive down wages is absurd.
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 No.392612

>[SOCIP / second-order critique of identity politics] exercises the liberal impulse to avoid situational judgment by applying rules that achieve “neutrality” through their sheer rigidity. Here, the virtue of SOCIP’s rule — that we should always reject identity as an important political consideration — is the way that it lets us disclaim responsibility for any particular injustice it creates by appealing to the greater good of fidelity to the rule. The logic here is identical to what we encounter with most liberal discourse rules. For example, the liberal rule of “identitarian deference” tells us that we should always defer to the judgment of people who belong to oppressed groups; the rationale is that even if this leads to bad outcomes on occasion, the greater good of respecting and empowering the oppressed in this way justifies rigid fidelity to the rule. In both cases, SOCIP and identitarian deference try to feed the messy world of politics into a supposedly neutral, rationalistic conflict-resolution machine of rules and procedures.
https://www.carlbeijer.com/p/the-second-order-critique-of-identity
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 No.394100

>>306746
based effort post, I will reflect on this thanks
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 No.397511


https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/disturbing-misogynoir-among-trans-women-and-their-allies.3798588/
This is bad.
Bros., Nasneed was correct after all.
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 No.400380

Communism is by itself a form of identity politics though
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 No.400382

>>392612
Only good thing to come out of the Bellows fiasco.
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 No.404580

>>400380
Communism is the goal of class struggle
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 No.404873

>>306024
We should sticky this somewhere. Also gather more and better sources.
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 No.404917

Bump you
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 No.405288

>>391569
You're a fucking retard
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 No.405860

>>305967
Yes but not because the masses accept it, but because nationalism is the b word which I will not utter.
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 No.406146

>>405288
got to keep the grift going, only the top tier of activists got houses in white upper class neighborhoods

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