[ home / overboard / sfw / alt / cytube] [ leftypol / b / WRK / hobby / tech / edu / ga / ent / music / 777 / posad / i / a / lgbt / R9K / dead ] [ meta ]

/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
Name
Email
Subject
Comment
Captcha
Tor Only

Flag
File
Embed
Password (For file deletion.)

Matrix   IRC Chat   Mumble


File: 1622844213997.jpeg ( 41.93 KB , 742x560 , 8e6.jpeg )

 No.296564[Last 50 Posts]

QTDDTOT - Questions that don't need their own thread. The last one died, so here post your questions here.

I'll start, why is a centralized authority important to achieving communism and why is this seen a positive aspect.
>>

 No.296605

Why do you guys keep using slurs against rich people like "bourgeoisie"
>>

 No.296689

>>296605
don't you mean "people of means"?
>>

 No.296752

>>296605
It's a technical term too. If a doctor calls a patient autistic, it's probably not being used as a slur.
>>

 No.296753

>why is a centralized authority important to achieving communism
What do you base this assertion on? You seem pretty certain.
>>

 No.296759

>>296752
You're literally discriminating a minority (1% of the population) by calling them obscure anti wealthy terms like "bourgeois" and people say communists are tolerant… I mean I am not a communist but can you guys really stop using that term?
>>

 No.296760

Should I pay $10 US a week for industry union dues?
What should I check for in a union before joining? (Not US but European)
>>

 No.296763

>>296760
see if they've ever had a strike or seriously fought for the workers they represent
>>

 No.296765

>>296759
This. The government are another minority and I'm fucking sick of the negative stereotypes and anti-government sentiments lurking in this in peoples of left's culture. This has to stop.
>>

 No.296774

>>296753
I'm watching Communism by the Backdoor to get an outsider's perspective on Communism (even though it's full of da j00s) and they said that in the Communist manifesto a centralized global authority was part of the plan for communism, i've also talked to a communist on old 8chan leftypol who was for a centralized global communist authority.
>>

 No.296784

What is the view on things like Nationalism or Patriotism on this board? Browsing around I saw the DPRK thread which gave examples on how well the country preserves Korean radiation compared to the Americanized South. In other threads I saw discussions about 'denationalisation' and 'desecuarlisation'. Is Socialism and Patriotism possible? I feel like in somewhere like America you could so easily convert so many ordinary apolitical people to the left by throwing in a few symbols of patriotism and the idea of a 'better America'.
>>

 No.296792

>>296564
>why is a centralized authority important to achieving communism and why is this seen a positive aspect.
Typically a centralized authority is necessary to conduct a successful revolution. Napoleon was himself a tyrant but the end result of the napoleonic wars was the overthrowing of much of Europe's feudal aristocracy in favor of a new bourgeois order. Is this a "positive aspect"? Not so much, but it's pure naivety to believe you can get anywhere by being mr "just like do whatever you want, man".
>>

 No.296798

>>296784
>nationalism
Based on the notion that people who run the country have any interest in protecting its people. The only reason states give anything to their people is because they are threatened by mass action, not because they extra special pinky promise that they have their interests in mind or whatever.
>patriotism
>I feel like in somewhere like America you could so easily convert so many ordinary apolitical people to the left by throwing in a few symbols of patriotism and the idea of a 'better America'.
You can't really "convert" people to leftism, you teach them leftist principles and open their mind to leftist questions and if these things resonate with things in their lives they can use them to grow a movement that can take all kinds of characteristics. In practice, even the USSR had on again, off again relationships with patriotism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_patriotism
>>

 No.296800

Can someone explain to me what Varg Vikkernes ideology is? I just can’t pin him. Sometimes he sounds like a primitive autismo and other times he says technology is fine.
>>

 No.296811

>>296798
Ty for your answer, I am very much in favour of the Socialist Patriotism model
>>

 No.296841

>>296800
neo-nazism with primitivist characteristics
>>

 No.296874

>>296564
What African countries in your opinion will be the most developed in the next 10 years? I’m betting on Ethiopia, Nigeria and Ghana.
>>

 No.296881

>>296874
>Ethiopia, Nigeria and Ghana.
Coincidentally the only nations in Sub-Saharan Africa with a recorded history prior to European colonization.
>>

 No.296892

Can cyclical nuclear exchanges and recoveries from them provide an unending counter to the profit rate tending to fall?
>>

 No.296959

English is not my main language, but what are "first principles"?
I've read somewhere, that one of liberalism's key assumptions is, that people can't agree on "first principles". What are these "first principles"? Many thanks in advance!
>>

 No.297354

>>296892
No because fission material is limited. Plus it’s arguable that we can even recover at all in the case of industrial civilization collapse. The remaining fossil fuels we have pretty much can’t be accessed by early industrial revolution era technology. Not to mention the amount of usable sand and clay for infrastructure is rapidly declining already.
The 6th mass extinction will fuck us up to the point of being basically sitting ducks for natural extinction events to come in.
>>

 No.297429

>>296892
>Can cyclical nuclear exchanges and recoveries from them provide an unending counter to the profit rate tending to fall?
No if there is going to be a nuclear war and organized society recovers , people will just kill anybody that suggest building nuclear weapons again. It will become a central point to all ideology that the right to exist is based on objecting to nuclear weapons.
>>297354
>No because fission material is limited.
Yes but there's a lot of it, nuclear wars would not be limited by resources for a very long time.
>Plus it’s arguable that we can even recover at all in the case of industrial civilization collapse. The remaining fossil fuels we have pretty much can’t be accessed by early industrial revolution era technology.
This might be true, but if a small part of the industrialized world is spared from destruction, it would immediately re-industrialize the hole world. The Soviet Union had such a backup plan. They deliberately didn't document where they stashed the stuff to bootstrap industrial society. If that stuff is still around and the capitalists blow up the world, it might restore the Soviet Union in a feat of cosmic irony.
>>

 No.297474

why are jewish people so over represented in communist orgs?
>>

 No.297481

>>297474
What orgs are you talking about
>>

 No.297495

>>297481
The Bolsheviks
>>

 No.297538

>>297495
Not an expert but:
1) /pol/ highly exaggerates this idea with cherrypicked stats (like picking only the one USSR committee that had the most Jews) so if that's your source, find an actual one before reading answers
2) Jews were often progressive or revolutionary due to being a minority that faced prejudice, not unlike the African-Americans often tending towards communism or radical Islam. When the status quo is pogroms, it's not hard to be radicalized.
>>

 No.297554

>>297429
>people will just kill anybody that suggest building nuclear weapons again. It will become a central point to all ideology that the right to exist is based on objecting to nuclear weapons.
That’s like trying to put an arbitrary ban on an objective advantage. If just a 10% of the minority than wants to build nukes and nuclear energy survives, they would stomp over the people that try to ban it.
Not to mention the fact that the knowledge of nuclear weapons can’t be reliably retained after centuries of rebuilding. By the point where your proposed system is set up people would turn it into another religion that obscure the reality of the technology.
Same problem with trying to rationalize the Fermi paradox being just intelligent aliens don’t want to go to space. Because if only 0.00001% that do will colonize to universe because it’s simply a huge advantage against extinction events.
>This might be true, but if a small part of the industrialized world is spared from destruction, it would immediately re-industrialize the whole world.
That’s a big if. Not only the climate effect will have a global effect but the simple economic impact of having 60-80% of the world deleted from nuclear war would make the even relatively safe areas to degrade into occupied post ww2 Germany. Most of the world today can’t even sustain themselves without the global system of capitalism, we see it with a simple flu like covid.
>>

 No.297676

>>297554
Nuclear energy can't be banned, because like you said that's just too much of an economic advantage, but nuclear weapons are not inevitable. Nukes could only be developed in the 40 year period in the 20th century with enough computing power to run the weapons simulation but not so much computing power for accurate computer guided conventional weapons. Economic power beats military power and the most economically efficient military is the one that has weapons that just about destroy the competing military and not much else. Without the fierce competition during the 40 year time window, nukes never get developed, because after the 40 year period computer guided conventional weapons become more appealing. If a nuclear war wipes us out, the society of survivors will inherit a anti-nuclear weapons ideology, and the rebound of technological society will probably not repeat the arms-race of the 20th century and there will never be a strong pressure for society to get over the anti nuclear weapons sentiment. It's not that unreasonable for pockets of industrial society to survive a nuclear Armageddon, but they can't do capitalism after the apocalypse because international markets would be broken up by radioactive waste lands.
>>

 No.298142

>>296763
How can we check on that?
>>

 No.298604

>>296760
If the fee is low enough, and there are no other unions to join, it's better to be part of the union, even if it is only there to maintain their status quo.

On how to find out their praxis.. dunno.. google it? Ask older members?
>>

 No.299587

>>298604
What do you mean by "even if it is only there to maintain their status quo"? Paying $10 a week (half a thousand bucks per year) is going to help prevent wage cuts that would take away more than $10 a week? What statistics are there on the "worth" of a union, that is, how much money does a union make for its members?
>>

 No.301631

>>299587
union provide a lot of not financiary benefits : job protection, working conditions, safety at work, schedule and worktime…
>>

 No.302257

>>296759
Can I use the B-word term of endearment, My Bouga??
>>

 No.302690

>>296760
Holy fuck, those are hefty union dues. Either they have good bennies or they might be seeking independence from the hall with those kinds of dues. Or they're running a scam.

As a general rule, better join a union than an obscure political party, IMO. At least in a union you have a chance to build real class consciousness with real proles.
>>

 No.302753

>>302690
Is joining a union and a political party too work-intensive? I thought it was better to do both.
>>

 No.302758

>>302753
Any good party will obligate its members to seek membership in applicable unions.
>>

 No.302781

File: 1623093097537.png ( 6.88 KB , 320x112 , googlelogo_color_160x56dp.png )

I want to find how much of the us economy is finance and internet shit but google wont give me the information.
You know like facebook, uber, etc…
Does anybody know?
>>

 No.304884

>>

 No.309043

Anyone else living in a conservative area and struggling to push back on acquaintances/coworkers when they start regurgitating their right wing talking points? I don't really don't want to make things awkward if I take offence to their racism, for example.
>>

 No.309047

>>309043
Don't take offence son unless they're doing it in front of us coloured folks in which case a short sharp shaming appealing to shared humanity might do some work convince them to stop being racist instead tankyoo muchly
>>

 No.309075

1. What's the definition of freedom?

2. How do you guys feel about censorship under a socialist regime?
>>

 No.309083

>>297495
Why do you lie, retard?
>>

 No.309101

Hey dumbfuck commietards my thread was deleted so I will post here. So I've been reading about LTV. And I've stumbled upon this critiqe by Mises. He says that LTV leaves, for instance, the consumption of material factors of production entirely out of account. And then he adds:
"Suppose the socially necessary labour time for pro­ducing two commodities P and Q is ten hours, and that the produc­tion of a unit both of P and of Q requires material A, one unit of which is produced by one hour of socially necessary labour, and that the production of P invoives two units of A and eight hours oflabour, and of Q one unit of A and nine hours of labour. In a calculation based on labour time P and Q are equivalent, but in a calculation based on value P must be worth more than Q. The former calcula­tion is false. Only the latter corresponds to the essence and object of economic calculation".
If I understand correctly, LTV cant predict empirical prices in the short run, COMMUNISM IS DEBUNKED AND RETARDED BEDORE IT WAS EVEN TRIED.
Do you understand this? :)
>>

 No.309107

So in communism how are you paying for your rent? No phone no WiFi, but you get food stamps and health care.
>>

 No.309110

>>309107
Oh wait my mistake I forgot about holodomor
>>

 No.309118

>>309075
1. For me, it's the freedom of your time, and how to spend it

2. In what context
>>

 No.309129

Why is communism so harmless? It used to be a threat to peace and freedom presented by its own militant aggressiveness, and now it's a movement isolated to stinky blue hair urban college kids.
Oh wait I know. We simply exposed the appeal of the commie idea as being "for the masses", as the commies would have us believe, as in reality it is an ideology for a middle class urbanite minority in western countries who are too lazy to work and man up.
>>

 No.309138

Insofar as Marxism is a normative theory, I think it has a lot of good ideas, such as starving off the workshy and other undesirables. Marxists, however, seem to have a very dodgy track record when it comes to making positive claims. The attack on human nature seems especially unscientific and also unnecessary.
What's up with this and can one be a Marxist without denying the reality of human nature? Marxism leaves no room for ambition. Why would a brain surgeon want to make as much as a burger flipper? Communism therefore occurs when everyone is equally poor.
Human nature is Game Theory. It's easy to say "well human nature changes you can't just define it". This is what game theory is. It is a model of interaction that weights benefits vs negatives, it is basically as close as you can get to defining human nature without become a social scientist. Communism goes against Game Theory
>>

 No.309142

File: 1623296010102.webm ( 1.19 MB , 366x380 , 1619840291956.webm )

>Human nature is Game Theory.
>>

 No.309187

HEY COMMIES. IF COMMUNISM IS SO GOOD, THEN HOW COME ITS BAD???
>>

 No.309197

So if abortion is murder, doesn't that make miscarriage a form of manslaughter?
>>

 No.309202

>>309138
Pick up a book retard.
> Marxism is a normative theory
Marxism isn't a fucking "theory" or some dogmatic bullshit like that
> Starving off the workshy and other undesirables
Fuck off with this fascist garbage. "He who doesn't work doesn't eat" only holds true under the lower stage of socialism. Unemployment in the "reserve army of labor" is an inevitable fact under capitalism. Reforming and healing alcoholics, prostitutes, druggies, etc. will obviously be an incredibly laborious process, but it can only start once the proletariat is in power.
> Some more garbage about "le human nature"
The proletariat is deprived of property, so that they cannot survive without selling their labor power to a capitalist. Is this "human nature"?
> Some more garbage about "ambition"
Is exploitation of the working classes "ambition"?
> Why would a brain surgeon want to make as much as a burger flipper?
No one "makes" a wage in communist society. Communism abolishes the division of labor and universally educates people to the highest possible extent, which makes it possible for anyone "to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic."
> Communism therefore occurs when everyone is equally poor.
Name even ONE text where Marx or Engels ever argues this. Capitalism has already centralized and socialized every single industry in the world, yet everything still continues to be under private dominion. Communism only returns the already-socialized means of production back into the hands of society, which is infinitely easier than the arduous task of socializing the means of production which was accomplished by capitalism.
< Crude communism [the manuscript has: Kommunist. – Ed.] is only the culmination of this envy and of this levelling-down proceeding from the preconceived minimum. It has a definite, limited standard. How little this annulment of private property is really an appropriation is in fact proved by the abstract negation of the entire world of culture and civilisation, the regression to the unnatural || IV ||IV| simplicity of the poor and crude man who has few needs and who has not only failed to go beyond private property, but has not yet even reached it.
< Marx in the 1844 Manuscripts
> Human nature is game theory
Fuck off with this pseudoscientific garbage. Your use of "game theory" already pre-supposes the rules of the game. You're already *assuming* the existence of property, wages, capital, etc. when you argue that people *inevitably* navigate these categories according to their interests.
>>

 No.309213

>>309129
Malthus was an intellectual failure that tried to invent bullshitt reasons to kill off the poor, the nicest thing you could say is that he did not understand the nature of industrial society and tried to reason with feudal logic
>Why is communism so harmless?
capitalists spend a lot of effort suppress it, you must be wrong
>It used to be a threat to peace and freedom presented
it never was a threat to peace and freedom, you must be confusing it with capitalism
>>309138
>Insofar as Marxism is a normative theory,
I don't think it is
>I think it has a lot of good ideas, such as starving off the workshy and other undesirables.
Being workshy in capitalism is human nature, nobody wants to be exploited and work for somebody else's gain, and the undesirables, yeah body look in the mirror.
>Human nature is Game Theory.
>The attack on human nature seems especially unscientific and also unnecessary.
talk about unscientific attacks,
Scientifically speaking you will not find a singular human nature essence, and game theory is wrong because it doesn't account for the material constraints of the real world.
>>

 No.309220

File: 1623297924923.png ( 675.24 KB , 900x675 , good.png )

>>309187
bad? good use it
>>

 No.309227

>>309138
>Unironic positivism
>>

 No.309232

>>309202
>Marxism isn't a fucking "theory" or some dogmatic bullshit like that
You may want to fix this part. Marxist theory is a thing, but it isn't normative like that anon claims. Its not making statements on "good" or "bad" in it's analysis, and the analysis itself isn't stating how things "ought" to be.
>>

 No.309665

>>309202
By the time communism happens all work will be extremely advanced and you will have to study for 10 years to do anything. Why do you think people will be able to switch jobs as easily as you say? Adding on to this, the easy jobs are going to be automated pretty much entirely, so those will be gone.
>>

 No.310235

I want to know how marxists feel about CRT. Do you acknowledge it as part of the (neo-)marxist tradition or just critical theory? Or none of it?
>>

 No.310238

>>310235
NO thats all you got to know
>>

 No.310615

>>310235
>Do you acknowledge it as part of the (neo-)marxist tradition
It's not Marxist at all you fucking pseud, not even tangentially so.
>>

 No.310873

>>309118
in the context of censoring for instance journalist
>>

 No.311166

Who are some famous socialists, not famous for socialism? No e-celebs, don't focus on celebrities.
Bonus points for top-of-field types, like Einstein.
>>

 No.311173

>>311166
Einstein, Oppenhaimer, Orwell, Oscar Wilde, Picasso, HG Wells
>>

 No.311179

>>

 No.311194

>>296874
Probably the ones which are most developed now (Mauritius, Seychelles, the North in general, Botswana, South Africa, and Gabon).

>>296881
Brainlet detected, there were recorded precolonial civilizations throughout the Muslim parts of West and East Africa.

>>310235
It's just a straightforward analysis of racism in the United States, I took a class on it in school and, while it wasn't anything I hadn't heard before, I didn't find it objectionable. I don't think it's Marxist or anti-Marxist, if that makes sense.
>>

 No.313840

Anyone have a link for that Quora post where the guy explains why the notion that Stalin was a murderous lunatic cannot be true by virtue of simple math?
>>

 No.315516

File: 1623577504656.png ( 926.01 KB , 600x867 , ClipboardImage.png )

Which, if any, post-feudal nations or regions actually ever achieved a social system where the means of production were owned by the workers, rather than by the government or privately owned?
>>

 No.317736

So we know people are lazy and too confortable for a revolution nowadays. Atleast in the 1st world. What do?
>>

 No.317806

File: 1623679646496.png ( 72.33 KB , 534x393 , E3s7QYBVEAYHudy.png )

What goes on in Laos? Are they based?
>>

 No.317874

>>317806
Market socialist state with only a few million people and tough terrain. They're growing fast by adopting existing technologies and taking foreign aid and are just focusing on developing a productive base for now.
>>

 No.318253

https://illwill.com/meme-swarm-and-microtrading
> On September 11th, 1973, a Nazi murderer supported by Henry Kissinger overturned Salvador Allende and seized power in Chile, killing thirty thousand left wing militants along the way.
Is it true that Pinochet was a Nazi? I tried looking up but a quick search couldn't find anything that would claim a direct connection.
>>

 No.318285

>>318253
Never mind, just found out about Colonia Dignidad… It's pretty wild that it is only linked on Pinochet's wikipedia page for some documentary about it.
>>

 No.319992

What are some counters to capital flight?
>>

 No.320106

>>315516
The government is not an entity unto itself. If you accept Marx's thoughts on proletarian class struggle, you have no reason to disagree with him that the state only exists to represent and advance the interests of one class over others.
>>

 No.321196

>>320106
Would it then follow that a labor party made up of workers (such as an agrarian nationalist party) that were voted in as a majority government party would form a socialist nation? The state would be controlled by the proletariat/working class and represent (some of) their interests. or at least, what they consider their interests
>>

 No.321231

What actually is Critical Race Theory? I hear it as a buzzword a lot and never actually looked it up.
>>

 No.321263

>>318253
>>318285
Nah, he and the Junta were more likely francoist than nazi. Jaime Guzman, one of the true brains behind chilean dictatorship, was also a Franco and Primo de Rivera admirer.
>>

 No.321852

>>321231
An umbrella term that doesn't refer to anything specific. Like "postmodernism" it doesn't refer to a school of thought, it's just a very broad way to refer to various thinkers, theories and academic tendencies. Now US conservatives seem to be using it as their new bogeyman, and their own understanding of 'critical race theory' includes basically anyone that says "hmmm yes perhaps racism is a real existing thing in our society".
>>

 No.321862

>>321231
>>321852
To clarify a bit: there is such a thing as critical race theory, but it can't be pinpointed as a singular school of thought. Generally speaking, we use the term to refer to any philosophical, legal, sociological, etc, theory that, following the legacy of critical theory atttempts to critique the categories and further the understanding of race in western capitalist society. These theories, in good academic fashion, usually have some vague connections to marxism, whether via the Frankfurt school, Gramsci, etc, but are rarely ever explicitly or fully marxist. I can't really name any critical race theorists because it's not something I know much about (though I keep hearing things relating to it at uni), hopefully someone else can explain this better.

Looking into it, the wikipedia definition of critical race theory says that (at least in american academia) it is more of a definite movement, so maybe the conception that is more common where I'm from differs from what burgers mean by the same term.
>>

 No.322695

NASIM AGHDAM
>>

 No.322701

>>302781
use DuckDuckGo
>>

 No.322894

>>321862
I see. I tend to see it associated more with liberalism. It's hard to find an unbiased explanation of it because there are so many right-wing outlets that muddy the waters.
>>

 No.323273

>>309101
>In a calculation based on labour time P and Q are equivalent
That's how it appears when counting labor time. What's your problem with that? Maybe the intended point by Mises here was something about higher transport costs if you require more "material A", whatever that is, but of course something like that also shows up in labor-time calculations if only they have enough detail. Maybe he implicitly assumed more waiting time involved in anything that requires more "material A", so that the waiting time for "commodity P" is higher than for "commodity Q". So for P to be produced with reason it has to be worth it in terms of the labor time and the waiting time. Location and time are part of use-vale considerations in Marx so they also show up in Marx-inspired decision-making. My impression from that snippet is that Mises makes the logical mistake of conflating presence or absence of that information in prices with presence or absence of that information in decision-making.
>>

 No.323894

What are good metrics for determining how successful a socialist country is? Bourgeois individuals often use GDP as an arbiter of how good a country is, but is there something more objective or at least considerate of the fact that socialist economies don't have commodity production? Is net material product a good measure?
>>

 No.323899

Does having an openly bigoted and prejudiced socialist party make socialism easier for normies to entertain and maybe support?
>>

 No.323919

who is jimmy dore and why he's relevant
>>

 No.323935

>>323919
Some Republican
>>

 No.323939

>>323919
He's a leftist who makes radlibs seethe
>>

 No.324182

>>323894
Average lifespan.
>>

 No.325495

What are Hedgefund-Managers and why do they deserve the Gulag?
>>

 No.325772

What are some resources that examine the development of capitalism in the Russian Empire? Just how capitalist was it?
>>

 No.325844

>>323919
either a socdem or some kind of utopian socialist that makes radlibs mad because he's not a part of their hivemind.
>>

 No.326061

>>324182
Die, urbanite!
>>

 No.326062

>>325772
Well Lenin's first famous work was exactly about this: The Development of Capitalism in Russia https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1899/devel/
>>

 No.327355

>>323894
Life expectancy, happiness, literacy rate, nutrition are a few.
>>

 No.328007

Are there any good documentaries on Pol Pot? They don't have to be pro Pol but I would prefer if they weren't made by libs
>>

 No.328036

Are beggars petit bourgeois?
>>

 No.328567

>>296564
Gonna ask /pol one day when I work up the patience. But why do nazis and other rightoids rightfully understand that Israel treats Palestinians as if they are less than human. But when looking at America where blacks are treated similarly they engage in all sorts of mental gymnastics trying to prove that blacks somehow of things great in America?
>>

 No.328570

>>328036
Yes, they subsist entirely on the labor of others
Don't give your money to the vagrant porky
>>

 No.328572

>>328036
They are the definition of lumpen
>>

 No.328768

File: 1624222472351.gif ( 130.49 KB , 500x600 , serveimage.gif )

Aren't the police lumpen proletariat?
>>

 No.328790

>>328567
Half of them know and don't care, and the other half thinks that performative bullshit like rainbow capitalism and the Juneteenth federal holiday thing constitute Black privilege and racism against Whites.
>>

 No.328794

the fuck is an ultra? i keep seeing this term used more often
>>

 No.328815

>>328768
Yes
>>328794
Uktraleftist. People who are radical to the point of rejecting anything that doesn’t fit their image of what Leftism should be without acknowledging what it is.
>>

 No.328824

File: 1624224669347.png ( 107.05 KB , 1883x669 , Screenshot from 2021-06-20….png )

>>328768
>Aren't the police lumpen proletariat?
Meanwhile in france…
>>

 No.328831

>>328824
>Since when did "far-left" start to equal demsoc/socdem populist charlatans? I'm gonna look this article up and find out which individuals they're even referring to.
No ML (the described "far-left" in this context) would simp that hard for bourgeois police. Let's find out.
>>

 No.328843

>>328831
Okay so when I went to the article I noticed that I misread the title and need to go to sleep (it says "left-wing", not "far-left"…), but more importantly, let me name and shame these three cretinous pigs described as "left-wing leaders" by the bourgeois press:
Olivier Faure (Socialist Party, socdem neolib trash)
Yannick Jadot (Europe Ecology - The Greens, socdem: greenwash edition)
and Fabien Roussel (French Communist Party (PCF), right-wing revisionist CPC client party (IMCWP member))
https://www.politico.eu/article/france-paris-rally-left-wing-leaders-police-officer-killings/
>Notably absent was Jean-Luc Mélenchon, head of the far-left France Unbowed party.
Good on him, even though he's by no means above criticism on other areas.
>>

 No.328872

>>328831
This is probably a dumb question but how are the police bourgeois?
>>

 No.328874

Is it true that there is a no work option to communism? Like you don't have to work, or does everyone have to work to eat?
>>

 No.328877

>>328843
what wrong with beeing a IMCWP member?
>>

 No.328879

>>328874
everyone has to work
>>

 No.328962

>>296759
Just because a group is a minority doesn't automatically make them right or good.
>>

 No.329072

>>

 No.329074

>>328874
Yeah you have to work but only an hour a day
>>

 No.329080

>>329074
Source? Where does it say that it'll only be an hour?
>>

 No.329083

>>329080
Alright, fine.
50 mins on site and 50 mins from home. Take it or leave it
>>

 No.329141

>>329083
How about thirty mins of official work but I suck your dick every day extraofficially?
>>

 No.329142

>>329141
Deal, but it takes me 2 hours to cum.
>>

 No.329143

File: 1624245132136.gif ( 1.53 MB , 400x300 , paw.gif )

>>329142
Goddammit.
>>

 No.329198

If a global socialist government is established, what’s the first thing that will need to be done to stop climate change?
>>

 No.329421

>>329198
Deurbanization along with deindustrializing to hit the breaks and reduce emissions as much as possible

In the long term replacing fossil fuels with solar, wind, and other sustainable sources. Keep the population under 3 billion.
>>

 No.329455

>>329198
nothing; we've crossed the point when something could have still been done

even if we managed to get the polution rates within the regenration capabilities of the planet, there is too much shit already out and the feedback loops are already happening (gigntic forrest fires for example; terrible droughts in california, australia etc)
>>

 No.329460

>>329198
The doomer shit is overblown. A socialist world government united by common interest could solve global warming within ten years by actually following through with the policies that have been endlessly discussed but not implemented throughout the entirety of the capitalist world.
>>

 No.329464

>>329421
>deindustrializing
no that's reactionary, industrial society is the basis for socialism, or any other modern social order. To deal with climate change new industry has be to build that is in line with material conditions.
>>

 No.330432

>>328567
because they are breaking the law, acting aggressive. then riot in the street because muh didndu nothing
>>

 No.330439

Why are leftists so apathetic towards censorship?
>>

 No.330441

>>330439
Because fascists deserve it
>>

 No.330447

>>330439
>implying
I'm literally anti-censorship and have helped code anti-censorship tools
>>

 No.330448

>>330441
If it is discovered that there are certain genes associated with fascism, will you support eugenics?
>>

 No.330449

>>330439
Are you aware that anarchists are one of the two major ideologies considered "leftist"?
>>

 No.330450

>>330449
>anarchists are one of the two major ideologies considered "leftist"
Not according to a majority of this board, from what I've observed.
>>

 No.330453

>>330448
Depends what you mean by that, we shouldn't genocide everyone with those genes but it might not be a bad thing to try encourage them to be bred out of the population so everyone can be happier. Hopefully society would be good enough for them not to pop off anyways.
>>

 No.330456

>>330453
>we shouldn't genocide everyone with those genes
Why not? What's wrong with killing fascists? Don't they deserve it?
>>

 No.330462

>>330456
Having certain genes doesn't make you a fascist, even if, under your proposition, they might make one more predisposed to fascism. Besides which, don't try to conflate censorship with a fascist holocaust, it's rather dishonest.
>>

 No.330463

>>330450
1) Our mascot is literally black/red themed and we have anarchist banners and flags, which are regularly used
2) There is a dedicated anarchism general and dedicated reading lists in the sticky, along with other anarchist threads
3) Considering an anonymous imageboard as an authoritative source on politics is fucking retarded and you should stop doing that immediately
>>

 No.330464

>>330448
>associated with
I don't kill people over wrongthink or uncertain probability, so that's a no from me. Otherwise I would genocide blacks, browns and whites for their inferior IQ :^)
>>

 No.330466

>>330439
Nearly every leftist I know is against censorship if only because they're aware of how easily it can be turned against them.
In fact crackdowns on the right have often been just preludes to much more significant crackdowns on the left. Obviously not the case with shit like Trump being banned though, that was just Twitter doing damage control.
>>

 No.330472

>>330439
>inb4 you're just thinking of american neolibs+SJWs and extrapolating
For the record, there's a lot of non-anglo people using this place through VPNs due to government restrictions.
>>

 No.330508

>>330462
>Besides which, don't try to conflate censorship with a fascist holocaust
Never intended to.
>>330466
>Nearly every leftist I know is against censorship if only because they're aware of how easily it can be turned against them.
What happens if a left-wing party gains power? Now that they can choose whom to censor, do you believe they will maintain the same opposition to censorship?
>>330472
My assumption was based on this board alone.
>>330463
Is leftypol a poor representation of modern leftism?
>>

 No.330509

>>330508
Why do you people feel like censorship is the ultimate 'gotcha'? Like that as long as a movement claims to support 'free speech' (even though fascists only support that for people that agree with them) it's virtuous and true?
>>

 No.330511

>>330508
>What happens if a left-wing party gains power? Now that they can choose whom to censor, do you believe they will maintain the same opposition to censorship?
Yes, because power is not as simple as "left-wing party in power, now they'll only ever do good things and we should never be suspicious of anything they do".
By the way, if you're American, you should be far more worried about corporations monopolizing communication and using their "freedom" to de facto censor everyone they want to than anything "leftists" might do.
>>

 No.330517

>>330508
>Is leftypol a poor representation of modern leftism?
Leftypol is a poor representation of anything, this place has like a few hundred posters at its most active.
>>

 No.330524

>>330509
>Why do you people feel like censorship is the ultimate 'gotcha'?
Why do you assume I think that?
>Like that as long as a movement claims to support 'free speech' (even though fascists only support that for people that agree with them) it's virtuous and true?
No, I never said that. But I would prefer not to support a movement that encourages censorship.
>>330511
>By the way, if you're American
I'm not.
>you should be far more worried about corporations monopolizing communication and using their "freedom" to de facto censor everyone they want
I am.
>>330517
Could you direct me towards somewhere that is a better example of the attitudes of the modern left?
>>

 No.330530

>>330524
>Could you direct me towards somewhere that is a better example of the attitudes of the modern left?
Humans in real life who aren't eternally online or weird enough to be media spectacle (no imageboards, no reddit, no twitter). Got any unions or political parties nearby?
I think the underlying issue is assuming "the modern left" is anything but a spook. The left-right spectrum is internally contradictory and was never designed to represent anything by progressive and conservative 1800s France.
>>

 No.330532

Does anyone have any books or pdfs combatting trotskyism? I'm sick of them
>>

 No.330539

>>330530
To be more specific, it's foolish to classify "the left" as an entity and especially foolish to draw conclusion from that.
e.g. if I say the right are conservative, then that doesn't explain nominally right-wing ideologies like anarcho-capitalism, Strasserites, progressive fascists (no contradiction! Fascist theory doesn't inherently imply racism or conservatism, it's simply iconic for those traits), many forms of libertarianism, etc. etc. Same deal on the "left", how the fuck is an authoritarian Marxist-Leninist-Maoist supposed to be lumped with anarcho-communists to find a consistent opinion on censorship? And that's just the ones that are communist!
>>

 No.330546

>>330532
What a horrible approach to learning. Don't seek to reinforce your current opinion like a cultist.
>>

 No.330569

Since /leftypol/ seems to be in agreement that there are a lot of Jews in the elite, does that show that the elite are more liberal than conservative? No i'm not confusing leftists for liberals, and yes i'm aware that conservatives have the right (right wing media and politics).
>>

 No.330572

>>330546
You should see the trots I come in contact with and then perhaps you'd adjust your definition of cultism. These people are actively harmful
>>

 No.330577

>>330569
>Since /leftypol/ seems to be in agreement that there are a lot of Jews in the elite
[citation needed]
My country's elite has literally 0 Jews. Are you just talking about USA?
>does that show that the elite are more liberal than conservative?
It does not. The implication that Jews are overall liberal is strange. (Especially if you consider that Judaism is conservative and reactionary)
>>

 No.330584

>>330569
Removing J*ws and Wh*tes is the only the solution.
>>

 No.330586

>>330577
>[citation needed]
There was a thread a while ago made by a nazbol, with a screen cap about the jews in the elite and no one said anything about there not being jews in the elite.
>Are you just talking about USA?
Yes, i should have specified this.
>It does not.
>Judaism is conservative and reactionary
Okay.
>>

 No.330601

What should I read next? I've read
>Principles of Communism
>Critique of the Gotha Program
>Socialism: Utopian and Scientific
>the manifesto (many years ago)
>about half of The Condition of the Working Class in England (several years ago)
Obviously I don't read theory despite being a commie for 5+ years, but when I read the first three in the list this week, it was all stuff I've picked up long before. What are the next steps?
>>

 No.330618

>>330601
Really depends on what you want. Practical, directly applicable politics? History? Philosophy? Some more info would go miles in allowing recommendations. Considering the works you've read thus far, maybe some political economy would be good. These are fine books for starters:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/index.htm
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/index.htm
Alternatively, try some Lenin. State and Revolution might be a good place to start.
>>

 No.330619

>>330586
>There was a thread a while ago made by a nazbol, with a screen cap about the jews in the elite and no one said anything about there not being jews in the elite.
I mean, there literally are a lot of people with some or full Jewish heritage in the US 'elites', if you consider billionaires, bankers and Hollywood elite. I personally think that's true, and understand historical reasons why it was likely to happen (Jews often being barred form other professions, Christian teachers historically denouncing usury, neopotism/segregation (including religion schools) increasing connections).
There's also similar observations with other nationalities/races, like Italians in Hollywood (including Disney) and Irish presidents (every single one of the last seven!) and bankers.
The point being, Jews are not really exceptional for being 'overrepresented' in select areas of the USA (especially if it was one of the infographics that include people with 1/4 or less Jewish heritage or 'married a Jew'). You'll often see pointed out by /pol/&friends as if it's an intentional conspiracy, but I mean is White people being overrepresented an intentional conspiracy too? I don't think so.
>>

 No.330623

>>330601
https://leftyread.neocities.org/schedules/read/index.html
read the list for introduction to marxism but also take notes n shit
>>

 No.330765

What ideology is it that uses marxist theory but explicitly denies that worker control, withering the state or increasing human well-being should be goals?
>>

 No.331767

how do liberals (or anyone who is pro capitalism) deals with the inequality that is produced by the system they defend? whats their explanation for half of the world fortune being in the hands of one percent of humanity?
>>

 No.331787

>>331767
"It's not perfect but it's the best we have. Communists want a utopia and that only exists in fairy tales."
>>

 No.332268

>>331787
is that it? are you sure that's all they say?

i find hard to believe that such group wouldnt oppose the absolute monopoly of human civilization in the hands of less than one percent of the population. how can someone be like that?
>>

 No.332346

>>331767
They worked harder/smarter and earned it.
>>

 No.332347

>>332346
(cont'd)
Taking away their fairly earned profits is unfair and immoral.
>>

 No.334364

File: 1624499970680.jpg ( 112.27 KB , 600x458 , Marxism-Lennonism.jpg )

1. What comes after communism?
2. Are there any examples of actually existing barracks communism?
3. I often hear that Marx preferred to avoid going into details about communism. Is this true?
4. On a purely philosophical level, what ideas are shared between communism and liberalism (if any)?
>>

 No.334376

>>334364
1. What comes after communism?
A classless, stateless society
>>

 No.334412

>>332346
youve gotta be kidding me
>>

 No.335537

Quick rundown on how West Europe looted the East after the fall of socialism there? Something about sapping industry and population or something? What are some good sources that go into this in depth?
>>

 No.335566

>>334364
>2. Are there any examples of actually existing barracks communism?
Democratic Kampuchea
>3. I often hear that Marx preferred to avoid going into details about communism. Is this true?
Nah he goes into it in Critique of the Gotha Program
>>

 No.335583

File: 1624555721506.gif ( 162.24 KB , 261x310 , 8fbb96d9a9caa9488939b08a92….gif )

In a communist society how would you trade goods for food, since value is subjective?
>>

 No.335593

>>335583
value isn't subjective though, it's objective and created through labor
>>

 No.335622

>>335593
Doesn't it depend on the opinion of the people trading to decide how much bread a piece of coal is worth? What about skilled labor, how would they get their food if they don't have a material to present for trading?
>>

 No.335645

>>335622
>Doesn't it depend on the opinion of the people trading to decide how much bread a piece of coal is worth?
No, because the extraction and production process incurs costs which are baked into the product. If value were truly subjective they could just declare it free and give it away.
>>

 No.335646

>>335583
>>335622
even if value is ultimately subjective, we are capable of constructing objective forms of value using empirical measurements. the point is moot.
>>

 No.335652

>>335645
>>335646
Okay, thank you.
>>

 No.335855

How would you explain dialectical materialism to an uneducated worker of average intelligence?
>>

 No.335866

>>335855
It's like the scientific method but focused on history and class conflict
>>

 No.336326

>>335593
Isn't value subjective? An anime figurine has almost no non-material value to me as they are uninteresting, but for a collector it is a valuable item that they are willing to compensate for.
Or am I using a different definition of value, closer to demand?
>>

 No.336724

File: 1624591061957.jpg ( 20.55 KB , 480x360 , 2d53fff9a462b37d5ea8f4c39e….jpg )

Why exactly is it bad to be reactionary? Aren't there good (as well as bad) aspects of the past that could be incorporated into modern life?
>>

 No.336726

>>

 No.336729

>>336724
If it's bourgeois to be reactionary explain how it's bourgeois?
>>

 No.336730

>>336724
Do you even know what a reactionary is
>>

 No.336731

>>336730
Isn't it people who want to something to go back to how it was in some nostalgic olden days?
>>

 No.336883

serious question:

if capitalism sucks, how do we explain "first world" countries like sweden, german and japan?
>>

 No.336897

>>336883
how do you explain everyone else living like shit retard
>>

 No.337012

do zionists admit or deny the similarities between the jewish settlement in palestine and other colonial ventures such as the Boer Trek or the colonization of new England?
>>

 No.337252

>>336883
People in Japan are rather miserable. They had a massive industrial base that got massive aid from America and the rest of the Western world, and that's how they got wealthy today. Western European countries use imperialism… yes, even Sweden, which actually exports a lot of weapons to get other countries to do the dirty work.
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Sweden
>>

 No.337724

>>337252
Weapon exportion constitutes such a small percentage of the swedish gdp - criticize us rightly for profiting of imperialism, but saying we are rich thanks to the arms industry is silly (and that slave trade stunt just retarded)
I think it's better to explain we benefit from the one sided trade deals the USA and EU sets up with L.A and Africa
>>

 No.337767

>>337724
It's not that any country gets rich off of selling arms, but for such a small country Sweden does sell a disproportionately large amount of weapons. And likewise there is Norway, which actually helped bomb Libya in 2011, and Nordic countries in general participate in things like occupying Iraq, which goes against the conception of these countries being nice and friendly and not involved in imperialism.
Also >>336883 the better term to use is "developed countries".
>>

 No.337974

>>

 No.337997

>>337767
>bombing libya
the only justified intervention in the middle east
>>

 No.342199

Why is it that slave societies had rulers that were literally considered divine, whereas feudal ones were merely representatives of the divine? Why the downgrade?
>>

 No.342960

>>337252
what books would recommed me about this subject ?
>>

 No.347141

File: 1625014313999.png ( 10.77 KB , 211x246 , IMG_0338.PNG )

>corporatism is socialism
<no, corporations often implement a not-socialism due to economic and political hegemony. As you can see right now, small and medium businesses lost trillions in market share, whilst the internationals and large businesses gained all of that through lobbied selective application of emergency policy. Moves to oppose such things are necessary and more capitalistic.
Why the fuck do people actually believes this?
>>

 No.347304

>>342199
Because Christianity monopolizes divinity in God, assuming you're talking about European feudalism. In Japan, the Emperor was divine, so the shogun is only his representative.
>>

 No.347970

If piracy is a crime, why do ISPs look it over so much, sending just a letter much of the time? Why aren't there fines from the beginning? Is it because ISPs want to protect their consumer base and so shield their users from punishment?
>>

 No.348403

>>347970
Because really fighting piracy costs more than they'd gain, and they know it doesn't actually harm their profits. They're just putting up a symbolic fight to protect the sanctity of private property.
>>

 No.349071

How and why did liberalism win in the USSR?

How come material conditions have to change in the right way for socialism to take hold, but for liberalism to win in the ussr all it took was some cia propaganda?

If a new mode of production had really changed it would create a material basis for keeping the system, yet the system changed relatively easily when compared to winning it in the first place.
>>

 No.349105

Is it true that over 50 percent of this board's population is comprised of plants, wreckers, and fascists?
>>

 No.349160

>>349105
Not outside of /pol/ raid events.
>>

 No.351567

How can believing in radical feminism and trans right be reconciled?
You either believe gender is a social construct or you don't
>>

 No.351637

>>351567
there are different types of bourgeois "feminists"
>>

 No.351656

>>351637
radfems aren't bourgeois, well at least the original ones weren't.
>>

 No.351766

To what extent, in the US, are intelligence agencies actually seeking to destroy far right groups and orgs?
>>

 No.351769

>>351766
they don't
>>

 No.351776

>>351766
the proud boys were a joke, the kkk was destroyed years ago - what else is it left to destroy with more influence than troskyist book circles?
>>

 No.352007

>>351769
What do they gain by letting them be, or supporting them?
>>351776
Afaik the proud boys were glowed from the beginning, but is there any fraction of the far right that isn't controlled opposition?
>>

 No.359458

Is there any good youtube video or book about Zhou Enlai? Is he based or not, kinda interested to know more about him but don't really know where to start
>>

 No.360785

>>352007
>What do they gain by letting them be, or supporting them?
They control them and use them as proxies against the Left, as well as maintaining a structure to receive disaffected members of the working class, capturing them (so to speak) and preventing them from exploring options among the Left.
>>

 No.362329

Is there even an urban proletariat any more? Are there conditions for a united working class with the power to alter the mode of production?
>>

 No.362746

File: 1625705482623.jpg ( 50.54 KB , 547x314 , 1520076880712.jpg )

>>296564
How do I donate to this site? I'm an old fag since 8ch and like this place and usually the posters here too. I want to help this place keep going. I believe I saw something about a patreon at somepoint or another but don't know how to help. I'm not actually a trillionaire. I barely got nickels to rub together
>>

 No.364309

Is there a reliable source that lists all famines which have occurred in Russia since it's founding to now?
>>

 No.366447

What are good resources on how France and Germany control the EU? Dоes the UK have less influence for its part now that it left?
>>

 No.366719

>>351567
I saw a post about this on the askfeminists r*ddit and they think there's like a tiny part of the brain that determines gender identity and the rest is the same lol
>>

 No.366931

File: 1625872768191-0.jpg ( 1.54 MB , 1753x2534 , dess.jpg )

File: 1625872768191-1.jpg ( 75.67 KB , 753x1000 , paul robeson.jpg )

Was he based?
>>

 No.366957

File: 1625873804245.jpg ( 216.4 KB , 1990x762 , com.jpg )

>>296759
Yes. I am racist against rich people and wouldn't terribly mind if they were genocided.
They're fine with letting 600,000 of us die from a global plague so their profits can continue growing, I'm fine with them dying so we can live.
>>

 No.369646

File: 1626018215591.png ( 1009.77 KB , 800x600 , ClipboardImage.png )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-managed_social_centres_in_Italy
Anything cool to talk about with these? (or equivalents in other places)
>>

 No.369653

>>362746
Sorry for the late reply. Might be worth posting on >>>/meta/ , I can post in the Congress chat for you if you'd like.
>>

 No.369738

>>

 No.374210

So, reading the wikipedia page of Sri Lanka (which, interestingly enough, is still called the 'Democratic Socialist Republic of Sri Lanka'), it says they dropped a bunch of socialist/socialist orientated policies in the late 70s in favor of free market capitalism. Why did that happen?
>>

 No.374260

File: 1626151904562.png ( 430.73 KB , 1064x1065 , 1625684120463.png )

Why exactly did Trotsky support the gold standard, and is that a subject worthy of a thread
>>

 No.374272

File: 1626153007897.mp4 ( 2.74 MB , 854x480 , Billionaire Holocaust.mp4 )

>>296759
> You're literally discriminating a minority (1% of the population) by calling them obscure anti wealthy terms like "bourgeois" and people say communists are tolerant…
Gavin?

Jokes aside, being 1% is a choice and is not protected from "discrimination" similarly how cops are not protected because they choose their occupation as an act of free will.
>>

 No.374277

>>336883
> if capitalism sucks, how do we explain "first world" countries like sweden, german and japan?

< If we look at total flows of money around the world right now, between the Global North and the Global South, we see something quite remarkable. This is using 2012 data, which is the last data that we have on this. But in 2012, developing countries received a total of $2 trillion US dollars in total inflows from the Global North, right? That includes aid, foreign investments, loans, remittances, everything, every bit of money, which is a lot, but in the same year, some $5 trillion flowed the other direction from South to North.


< So in that year there were $3 trillion in net outflows from South to North, so the South is in fact a net creditor to the North rather than the other way around. So we might be able to say that it’s, in fact, the Global South that’s developing the North rather than the North developing the South. And that really does flip the aid narrative on its head. And if we compare those outflows to aid, what we see is that for every dollar of aid that the South receives from the North, they lose $24 in net outflows, which is a tremendous reversal of the way we normally think about the situation.


From https://citationsneeded.medium.com/episode-58-the-neoliberal-optimism-industry-and-development-shaming-the-global-south-cf399e88510e

If you are interested in more details, see the books & blog of Jason Hickel
>>

 No.374550

To what debt does Marx owe Kant? Some further reading would be nice, thanks in advance .
>>

 No.374868

My immunization records to attend college are due in 9 days (it is to be submitted online in pdf form) as well as date corresponding to when I had the shots. I do have an immunization record in but it doesn have enough vaccines on it for me to attend university. I only found out about this recently.
Is there a way I can forge this without getting in trouble, or do you think they double check with the health provider?
>>

 No.377261

File: 1626275330238.jpeg ( 388.29 KB , 1811x2560 , e942ac5c8c4a9715b2b033586….jpeg )

Is the Taliban winning the Afghan War or is this latest offensive just being hyped up by pro-war glowies trying to get the USA to stay in longer?

On the one hand they have been pushing the offensive and control a lot of territory…
On the other, the Afghan government controls the largest cities and has a larger and better equipped military.
>>

 No.377309

>>349071
liberalism didn't win in ussr
>>

 No.377312

>>377261
The taliban are winning, hands down
>>

 No.377313

>>362329
do you live off the work of others? if not, you're proletarian
>>

 No.377316

>>366447
It's just Germany and France is just a 2nd and 3rd wheel.
>>

 No.377323

>>377261
taliban have mass support because they, in a sense, even if they are radical conservative islamists, are the only groups that actually gives a shit about the country

all the others are foreign-abled puppets; so yes, they will win easily
>>

 No.377773

Guys, I was arguing with family (boomers), and somehow USSR agricultural production ended up on topic. I vaguely recalled cockshott making comparisons between scotland and ussr caloric intake throught history. Anyone can point me to the source ?

(while searching for it I ended up taking a look at the cia report comparing ussr and us food production, and finding a "debunk" of it on r/neolib, that is actually hilarious in its bad faith, with half of his link contradicting him or no source at all)
>>

 No.383895

File: 1626540159393.png ( 25.46 KB , 741x198 , cj.PNG )

https://twitter.com/caitoz/status/1416399430211674115

I was reading through this thread by Caitlin Johnstone and had a couple questions about the relationship between corporations and the state.

1. If the US government is capable of threatening monopolies with antitrust measures, doesn't that go against the notion that monopolies are in control of the government in a late-stage capitalist economy? Am I misunderstanding the relationship as one of domination when it's more accurately described as symbiotic?

2. How does the merger of state and corporate power in a capitalist economy differ from the Leninist concept of the State seizing and directing corporate interests in a dotp?
>>

 No.384494

File: 1626557896072.png ( 321.86 KB , 508x540 , ClipboardImage.png )

Is it oxymoronic to be a communist while not employed?
>>

 No.384497

>>384494
no, why would it be?
>>

 No.384498

>>384494
Yes.
Kys
>>

 No.384502

File: 1626558168027.png ( 389.7 KB , 1070x810 , ClipboardImage.png )

>>383895
1 I think it's more about how the US hasn't threatened monopolies in 100 years and seems not to, even under Teddy trust busting ended up only decentralizing monopolies while still maintaining their influence
for example Standard Oil was split into Standard Oil of Ohio NJ etc and were free to re-integrate, leading to many smaller oligopolies we have to this day
2 The state again lets corporations roam free under capitalism while Leninism would directly steer production for productive use by the proles
>>

 No.384538

>>384498
why did you tell me to kill myself?
>>

 No.384977

What are some /leftypol/ approved jobs?
>>

 No.385433

>>384977
Police, criminal, banker, sex worker, insurance salesman, casino manager, race car driver.
>>

 No.387289

Does anyone have a resource showing how well post-soviet countries are doing after the dissolution of the USSR?
>>

 No.388597

How do I refute those who point to Venezuela or people jumping over the Berlin Wall towards the West as proof that socialism doesn't work?
>>

 No.388625

>>388603
Cheers, bruv.

Anything regarding central Euro countries like Hungary, Czechia, etc ?
>>

 No.390947

Is the canonical explanation of River valley civilization
>Rivers were attractive locations for the first civilizations because they provided a steady supply of drinking water and made the land fertile for growing crops.
The most famous example of historical materialism?
>>

 No.390984

If a working class woman hires people to build her a house does her class change?
>>

 No.391000

>>390984
I haven't read a book but why would it? She doesn't own the means of production, she's paying for a service run by other people.
Can you provide an argument for why their [economic] class would change?
>>

 No.391026

>>391000
I haven't done very much reading on class, but never mind, she doesn't own the means of production so shes not a capitalist, so her class doesn't change.
>>

 No.391030

>>390984
No not unless the changes made to her house convert it from personal property to private property by making her house into a passive income stream for her.
>>

 No.391426

File: 1626841253287.gif ( 7.14 MB , 320x240 , Vuvuzela.gif )

>>388597
>Venezuela
Tell them to fuck off and to cease this nonsense.

>people jumping over the Berlin Wall towards the West

Point out that west Germans migrated to the East very frequently. Hell, even Merkel's parents, if i'm not mistaken.
>>

 No.391580

Should I get a job in a field I enjoy? Will it allow me to handle this capitalist hell a bit more or will it simply cause me to grow to hate what I used to enjoy?
>>

 No.393844

So what's the deal with sectarianism? Why does so much of the left engage in petty shitflinging? I'm now seeing even stalinist throw tantrums over xyz dead activist for not being stalinist enough. I expect this from Maotists or trots maybe but this is just getting silly. Even theorylet SRs were hugely important in bringing to birth the Russian revolution, can't we all focus on what lies ahead?
>>

 No.394170

Why did the US export so much of its jobs to China, an ideological enemy with massive potential to be a huge rival? Why not send jobs to India, SEA, South America, Africa, etc. instead?
>>

 No.394508

>>394170
Porky chose "all of the above". Well that and it's not like they *chose*, capital is the blind idiot god of the economy. China simply had the ability to build factories where the rest of the world was too heavily exploited for any kind of industrial buildup on the scale necessary to continue capitalism.
>>

 No.394538

File: 1626984545113.png ( 103.26 KB , 1054x509 , 1626977272991.png )

>>366957
Literal criminal underclass fetishist. Meds.
>>

 No.394541

Is idpol etc. and the liberal discourse after 2016 basically the expression of liberalism getting more contradictory and increasingly externalizing of those contradictions on to spooks
>>

 No.394552

>>384977
Steel factory, nothing else.
>>

 No.394563

>>394508
Capitalists do and can choose where capital flows though, as expressed through government policy of sanctions, tariffs, etc. Surely they could get cheap factories built by the natives and then set up shop in a country that doesn't have a rival ideology, right?
>>

 No.394568

>>394538
undercover thingnoticer detected
>>

 No.395387

Do tankies (generally) aim for the eventual abolition of their state?
Are tankies communists?
>>

 No.396154

>>394563
Yeah but that would cost money
>>

 No.396163

>>395387
The state is an instrument of oppression. You need police to enforce property rights and keep the poor from robbing you. When the state is controlled by the proletariat, the bourgeoisie (i.e. the rich) are slowly going extinct, their properties are confiscated and their wealth is redistributed. Thus, classes seize to exist and the state by itself is becoming useless as there is nobody to oppress. And this is the death, or, more commonly, the withering away of the state.
>>

 No.396231

File: 1627044075033.jpeg ( 179.37 KB , 736x1104 , 1626363831121.jpeg )

What's your deal with moderate consumerism ?
I don't like current culture-industry, especially the (cultural) materialist US-culture but i don't like some kind of puritanism in leftist circles
What do you think about fashion, niche-foods and design-products?
>>

 No.396241

>>396231
who fucking cares
do what makes you happy
consumption is not politics
you aren't going to change something because of what fashion, food, or designer shit you buy
at best you can participate in a boycott a la BDS
>>

 No.396244

>>396231
Don't make your politics your fashion, it's uber cringe. The middle path is the way, just buy what you like and don't be a sperg, your pic is sperg tier btw.
>>

 No.396266

>>396231
I think like people say in other answers, it doesn't mean jack shit what you consoom. But personally i prefer more minimalist things
>>

 No.396278

How do I understand dialectics? Haz from Infrared talks a lot about philosophy, what are some essential things to read? Kant, Hagel, others? What precisely from Kant?
>>

 No.396298

>>396278
If you're serious then you'll get better answers but I would skip Hegel, Kant and all the background reading required. Just read Marx, Engels and Lenin
Dialectics of Nature by Engels
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1883/don/index.htm
Materialism and Empirio-criticism by Lenin
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/mec/
Dialectical and Historical Materialism by Stalin
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm
>>

 No.396300

>>396278
The Sublime Object of Ideology - Slavoj Zizek
Violence - Slavoj Zizek
Absolute Recoil - Slavoj Zizek
Sex and the Failed Absolute - Slavoj Zizek
>>

 No.396303

>>396298
Okay, but I want to read philosophy too

>>396300
thanks, Slavoj
>>

 No.396426

>>396300
Is this guy's work hard to understand? From his videos he seems to rarely bother to make his statements clear, and just comes across as a pseudo-intellectual.
>>

 No.396943

Why is socialism better than anarchism?
>>

 No.396948

>>396943
>Why is socialism better than anarchism?
Read book.
How anarchism is not Socialist?
>>

 No.396960

>>396948
A better question would be how is socialism not anarchist

>>396943
Read On Authority by Engels
>>

 No.396986

>>396948
It seems that socialists experiences even though most of them bring better quality of life still are authoritarian states that opresses minorities
>>

 No.396988

>>396960
okay i will read it thank you
>>

 No.396998

>>396986
>opresses minorities
Read the soviet encyclopedia, they clearly praised prebaltikan and other minority group states and looked up do them, not oppressed the people of those countries
>>

 No.397548

How are communists "left-wing" if they every time establish a very hierarchical state, whereas libertarians are "right-wing" despite wanting less restrictions and government in general?
>>

 No.397570

>>397548
libertarianism is an idealized 1970s imagination of what capitalism looked like in the 1860s. it is not a description accurate to any society that has existed in history. libertarians who go into mainstream politics are not libertarians, they are at best paleocons and much more often just neoliberal vampires. why call it right-wing? i think of libertarianism as being like jediism or discordianism. it's something between a joke religion and a harmless but actual cult.
>>

 No.397811

What is the point of placing sanctions on government officials? I genuinely don't understand what purpose they even have, economic sanctions I get it, because for a world power with the capacity to enforce sanctions and make sure everyone follows them or they'll be severely punished if they don't, if you don't care about hurting the population of the country you're sanctioning and only about destabilizing said country's government, then yes clearly they make sense. However, I don't understand what purpose sanctions against individuals have. So what do these entail, that this person can't travel to your country (the country placing the sanctions), can't make any business with people from the sanctioning country (and the sanctioning government will enforce this to the best of their ability), possible can't have their family members traveling to the country placing the sanctions, etc. Is there anything else I'm missing that should also be considered? Because these conditions alone don't really seem to make that big of an effect tbh, I don't see how they could destabilize (if that's even their intended purpose) the sanctioned government more efficiently than economic sanctions.
>>

 No.401265

Q1: What THE FUCK do I do? I'm a dumb teen, I read theory, slowly, after that, how do I start organizing and making a people's party?

Q2: What exactly is the vanguard's role and rhetoric? Is it supposed to convince people capitalism is shit? But that's utopian, isn't it? It's supposed to blame capitalism for the hardships people are already experiencing then, but that would require it to give an alternative, which is utopian too, right? Imagining a better society instead of working with the real material conditions. What is it supposed to say then? "Get us into power and we will do things according to this book to achieve communism, and communism is good actually, read all these books" ? I don't think that's gonna convince the masses to buy it. Wat do
>>

 No.403353

Why was the capitalist bloc afraid of a neutral Germany turning communist when they had agreed with the Soviets to have Austria be neutral?
>>

 No.403370

>>403353
They fear losing their profits and fear of losing their friends. You see, (West) Germany had several conglomerates, such as Siemens, Krupp, Heckler and Koch, Thyssen, Mercedes, BMW, Volkswagen, and much more. So in order to protect the interests of theirs Western powers colluded to make Germany pro-West where it remains today.
>>

 No.403395

>>403370
Why not the same for Austria, which has OMV group and plenty of financial companies, among other things?
>>

 No.403399

>>403395
It's not as influential as Germany. Austria's far smaller in land size and population as Germany and hence have far less companies to profit off. If they do want to, it's only Glock they could profit off. Also most conglomerates today descend from what is then the Holy Roman Empire/German Empire.
>>

 No.403406

>>401265
1. Identify the problem or problems in your community that need addressing. Then find people interested in fixing that problem. This is going to involve talking to a lot of people to find out what's going on, who is affected, and who can or wants to help. Call your local churches, community centers, shelters, etc. Figure out what people need, then figure out ways to see those needs filled.

2. Ideally the vanguard should be able to offer practical explanations and guidance to the proletariat which help the working class achieve emancipation and revolution. It doesn't necessarily need to have all the answers, but it should be able to develop solutions via an explicit and coherent political philosophy.

Take water access for example. The vanguard party should be able to clearly articulate the political, social, and economic forces which are creating crises like we're seeing in places like California where the rich water the lawns of their massive estates and cashew farms drain the land dry, while regular people have to shower every other week and go without washing their clothes. Or even Flint, Michigan style fiascos where entire towns are poisoned because of cost cutting measures, etc.

Your vanguard party should be able to say how they're going to fix it, both in terms of the material facts of how they're going to provide water or clean it or whatever, as well as the social changes necessary (like making water a right rather than a commodity), and the theoretical basis for doing so.
>>

 No.403415

>>403406
What are common problems in communities, and is water supply something that can be resolved by organizing? It sounds like it would be expensive and require at least mayoral power.
>>

 No.403430

>>403415
Child care, food security, transportation, literacy, translation, medical, dental, and vision care, depression and suicide, drug use and rehabilitation, domestic abuse, sexual or physical abuse, prisoner rehabilitation, legal advice, fire control, neighborhood security, the list goes on and on. That's why it's important to talk to the people in your community to find out what they need, what they have, and how ends might be made to meet.

You don't have to solve these problems necessarily, especially when you're just starting, but people will remember who does for them.

I mean, organizing isn't going to make more rain fall or fill up depleted aquifers, but having an organized group can help apply political pressure, changing how existing water resources are used, owned, etc. The bourgeois political system is just one avenue though, and if you're talking vanguard party shit, then alternative methods have to be considered as well.
>>

 No.403649

If single men don't change history, then would Stalin living 10 more ears purging and putting USSR on the right tracks even happen?
>>

 No.404793

The only book I've read so far that even touched on this time period was by a bourgeois economist historian but…Tito wasn't based right? He caused the split with his nationalist autism and then sold out to the West.
Would love some recommendation for history books covering 1945-1991 Europe that is at least neutral and not the anti-communist propaganda I keep finding
>>

 No.407053

Is it true that the Soviet Union put pressure on the West, by existing, to give their own workers better living conditions and pay, so that they won't be tempted by socialism? Did Americans benefit by the existence of USSR?
>>

 No.407101

>>407053
Of course it's true. Just look at how quickly things reversed when the soviet union started going into crisis and finally collapsed.
>>

 No.407110

>>407101
All thanks to that straw that broke East Germany's back. 1989 was sort of a jackpot for the US and NATO. They opportunized it, supported the Baltic separatist movement, and supporting other "revolutionaries".
>>

 No.407125

>>407101
Weren't conditions worsening from about 1970 onwards? Wages and labor productivity began to separate at that time, the gold standard ended, etc.
>>

 No.407168

>>407125
mid 70s. The ussr was already in the decline.
>>

 No.407175

>>407168
Even the American leadership didn't think it was in trouble until the mid-80s though.
>>

 No.407670

File: 1627505415910.jpg ( 27.96 KB , 600x800 , 95a2f82382a522dc3895f5480c….jpg )

is social wage the same as social security wage?
>>

 No.407818

Why do you communists always resort to whataboutism when we point out the human rights atrocities in places like China!
>but but american colonists killed more than 1 billion natives
and…..that has exactly nothing to do with the current chinese government trying to suppress all thoughts and actions of their current citizenry they don't agree with. If you are going to be a troll, at least be close to accurate.
>>

 No.407826

>>407818
Stick to your own shit thread. You wrote this paragraph already.
>>407816
>>

 No.407832

>>407670
I wanna fuck that gourd
>>

 No.407847

>>407818
Literally the exact same thing applies in the other way
>>

 No.407854

>>407826
Kys
>>407847
No it doesnt
>>

 No.407857

>>407818
what human rights atrocities?
>>

 No.407870

>>407857
Ethnic cleansing and broad repression in Xinjiang (no, it's not "just terrorists")
>>

 No.407873

>>407818
It's kind of like a "mind your own business and worry about your own country". In some sense we can really only practically affect our own polities, so whining about atrocities elsewhere usually functionally ends up supporting imperialism or sanctions in one way another. Human rights are usually selectively applied in service to bourgeois ideology.
However the "anti imperialist" countersignaling does get insufferable, and even veers into deranged "critical support for ISIS" territory.
>>

 No.407935

>>407873
You think China is communist? LOL
You should stop role-playing on the internet and move to Venezuela or North Korea.
>>

 No.407943

>>407870
Thats honestly an eye opening video I didnt know it was that bad. My heart goes out to the innocent Muslims suffering under totalitarian dictatorship
>>

 No.407945

File: 1627514283117.jpeg ( 39.25 KB , 541x567 , retard.jpeg )

>>407935
>China is not communist
>But Vuvuzela and North Korea are
>>

 No.408001

>>407945
China is not communist bitch. Its only successful due to capitalism. Every country nowadays is dropping communism like the hot garbage it is, in favor of freedom.
Venezuela and north korea are prime examples of communism in practice though.
>>

 No.408009

>>408001
>Muh Vuvuzuela
>>

 No.408011

>>408001
Venezuela has a quite sizeable private sector and it's been like that for years even after Chavez was elected president, it's not even Cuba tier, it never was.

But I'm replying to a /pol/ retard that unironically believes in "muh freedom" while the bourgeois deep state is pulling the strings behind both Biden and Trump.
>>

 No.408018

>>408001
China has a larger state sector and higher levels of socialisation than Venezuela.
>>

 No.408029

>>408001
>freedom to be a cuck is the most precious thing there is
beautiful anon
>>

 No.409555

File: 1627591680842.png ( 207.58 KB , 500x332 , A seal that turns over to ….png )

Is an actor part of the bourgeoisie? She probably owns an business because of how much money they have, but probably makes more of her money from working as an actor?
>>

 No.409580

>>409555
Yes, CEOs are bourgeois too even though they don't actually 'own' their business
>>

 No.409588

>>407935
absolutely moronic statement
i guess socdem have no idea what communism is about, unsurprisingly
>>

 No.411908

>>407935
>You think China is communist? LOL
dude you're a fucking demsoc have just a little self awareness
>>

 No.412843

>>403430
How do i talk to them? I mean in a literal sense, patterns of speech, what do I emphasize, how do I even strike up such a conversation?

Unique IPs: 157

[Return][Catalog][Top][Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / overboard / sfw / alt / cytube] [ leftypol / b / WRK / hobby / tech / edu / ga / ent / music / 777 / posad / i / a / lgbt / R9K / dead ] [ meta ]
ReturnCatalogTopBottomHome