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File: 1627515457707.jpg ( 30 KB , 360x512 , 1626331180935.jpg )

 No.117744

I don't understand this. Why does wanting the body more similar to the other sex neccesscitate that you also want to be the other gender, and vice versa? Shouldn't the point of these types of movements be to tear down these assumptions, and not to do the 'if you become a stereotyped version of the other gender and change your body as well, then it counts' ? Personally, I wish i could just change my body without having to deal with the spooky bullshittery of what it 'means' to be this or that gender, how you are supposed to appear and act, and the like. But, i should only be able to 'look' like a woman (sex wise) if I 'feel' like a woman (gender wise). Why?
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 No.117748

Just wear the dress, Alice.
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 No.117751

Go outside
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 No.117752

>>117744
based, it's not only a spook but also another opiate
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 No.117753

File: 1627516488242.jpg ( 176.31 KB , 1200x1200 , mae cmon.jpg )

Why do trans people live rent free in so many peoples' heads here. Trans people are valid no matter what gender they adopt or clothes they want to wear. Same with enby, pan, etc.
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 No.117754

>>117744
Its pure idealism, notice how none of the gender ideologs actually want to argue their position is correct they will just insult and gaslight you, and harras if you happen to be a woman.
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 No.117755

It's not that serious. Just refer to them as their preferred pronouns and ignore them.
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 No.117756

>>117753
peak cope
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 No.117757

>>117753
You cant adopt a gender, its nor a lifestyle or an religion, its an desription of material reality and obscuring it contributes to an opression of women.
You don't need to reply I know it will be just
>something something terf youre a dumb whore I hate women no I'm not going to actually listen to your real positions.
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 No.117758

>>117757
How tf is gender a description of material reality when it's just a social construct?
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 No.117762

>>117753
There is an implicit recognition of the validity of gender norms by the types of trans people that think 'to be cute, to where a dress, to be sassy, etc.iis what i want to be, and that is what women are, so i must be a woman'. How is that not worth discussing ? Why not assert that you dont need a label to dictate what you are allowed to let yourself do?
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 No.117763

>>117753
What does "being valid" even mean? To go along with the ideology for moralistic/conformist reasons of "not being evil/rude"?
Why are your posts always so cancerously liberal?

>>117744
>Why does wanting the body more similar to the other sex neccesscitate that you also want to be the other gender, and vice versa? Shouldn't the point of these types of movements be to tear down these assumptions, and not to do the 'if you become a stereotyped version of the other gender and change your body as well, then it counts'
Correct, you figured it out. The proper course would be to obtain freedom to act as you wish, without having to fit into category "man" and "woman". So you could be biologically man and wear skirts and mascara without it being considered outrageous for violating the gender category rules.
Transgenderism is fundamentally reactionary and rightwing because it opposes this liberation and enforces upholding these behavioral categories (i behave mostly like category "woman" therefore i am this "woman" and youll be attacked by liberal society if you dont recognize and submit to this categorization of me/everyone).
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 No.117764

Why even bother debating it? Go look like a woman OP. Ask your doctor for hormone therapy but without gender dysphoria, see what happens.
Hormones dont get prescribed to non dysphoric individuals.
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 No.117765

>>117758
Social constructs, have a basis in material reality.
Sexuality is a social construct, and it desribes a differents between human attraction, and its helpfull in advencing rights of LGB people.
Now Imagine of a straight man said that he's trans gay, put on a pink tshirt and tiny shorts, claimed he suffers the same opression as actuall gay people do and that they need to adjust their ideas for him, and harras you with the same homophobic ways other straight man do if you don't align.

Now up that by 100 cous women face much greater opression than gay man do.
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 No.117766

>>117753
I should probably try to keep track of how proportionate the anti-trans communities are to pro-trans communities when complaining about them. I'm kinda just tired about hearing and seeing it constantly and I think twitter profiles/flagspam/hashtags makes it really hard to avoid.

In any case I don't like making a big declaration that trans people are valid because that's for them to decide, not me. I mostly just wanna leave them alone, and if a friend says she's a girl one day, whatever. Why should I care to police her about what she feels?
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 No.117767

>>117758
It's not a social construct you are repeating idealist sociological theories you were indoctrinated with. Sexual characteristics and behavior are not the only distinctions between the 2 genders they also have separate bone structures and chromosomes. Get back to material reality where life isn't perfect and you can't always get what you want.
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 No.117768

>>117764
Thats what sucks, this anon
>>117763
Is right. Still in the age of barbarism
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 No.117769

>>117765
Forgot to mention that lesbian feminist actually do experiance what I described with straigh man, claiming to be lesbians, but for them its even worse, couse they 're in addition shamed for not wanting to have sex with them.
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 No.117770

This discussion is ultimately always pointless and I guarantee that it will devolve into a circus so let me make some things clear before it continues any further:
1. Some people respond positively to sex reassignment surgery whereas others don't. In the future this likely shouldn't be an issue so long as people are able to seamlessly alter their bodies as they wish. As for now, how to distinguish who sex reassignment helps from those it harms is a problem for psychologists to resolve, not us.
2. Transgenderism and gender politics in general isn't inherently revolutionary and can be just as reactionary as it's opposition.
3. If you want to be friends with a trans person you should probably respect their pronouns. Even if you disagree with it, you should already understand how everyone has quirks and hangups that you have to adapt to.
4. There should either be a single washroom for any sex to use or a third sex-neutral washroom.
5. Trans people are human beings and are thus capable of being horrible people, don't dehumanize them by denying them such. But try not to become an asshole in response and alienate the trans people who are wonderful.
6. The vast majority of people don't give a fuck about any of this shit and are either indifferent, accepting or suspicious of it. Trans people make up a tiny percentage of the population and it's safe to say that most of them are otherwise normal people. The crazies are overrepresented by Twitter retardation and obsessive /pol/acks.
7. Trans issues are extremely overblown and incredibly degenerate in modern discourse, and like most cultural issues are used as little more than a political tool by cynical elites on both sides. By obsessing over it instead of trying to go beyond it, you are playing into their hands. Don't allow yourself to fetishize or antagonise trans people, that's exactly what they want you to do.
8. Our primary goal as socialists and communists ought to be overcoming capitalism, not changing culture; we aren't hippies. Focusing on trans issues is almost absolutely just bikeshedding (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bikeshedding).
9. There is no truth to "feeling like a woman" beyond how a woman is subjectively defined by yourself and those you relate to.
10. Gender only materially exists insofar as the sexes can be assigned certain roles for their physiological ability in relationship to the needs of society. A man is usually stronger than a woman so a man hunts and does difficult labour, but most people don't hunt anymore and difficult labour is becoming more obsolete. A woman has children and is vulnerable, but that vulnerability becomes less severe as daily life becomes safer. The materially origins of gender will be mostly abolished when the physiological differences between men and women are overcome, and from there it's just a problem of ideology.
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 No.117771

>>117765
It's not a social construct, it's a spook. A fixed idea.
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 No.117772

File: 1627518345649.jpg ( 80.7 KB , 570x712 , adorno_360x450.jpg )

>When stupid/pol/tards figure out how to shit on trans people by appropriating gender abolitionist rhetoric so they don't come off as explicitly bigoted.
lol, lmao
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 No.117773

>>117770 (me)
One point of clarification for 10: the reason why I use "gender" instead of just "sex roles" with regards to the material origins of gender is that such roles are intentionally fluid despite being otherwise rigid. The reason why is simply that if lots of men in a tribe go missing or are killed off, the remaining women have to take up their roles. There is plenty of evidence for this and vice-versa throughout human history, and I must repeat once again that such roles are slowly becoming subverted as socially necessary physiological differences are rendered more and more obsolete by technological advancement.
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 No.117774

IRONICALLY THE FEMBOYS ARE MUCH MORE SEXIER THAN ANY TRANSHUMANIST THAT EXIST COPE YOU FUCKING TROONS
TROONS
TROONS
TROONS
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 No.117775

>>117772
Not an argument
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 No.117777

>>11777
The spread of femboys is gender abolitionist praxis
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 No.117779

As I said you cant actually defend your position, you don't even attempting to do that, gender abolitionism is a gender critical idea, it has nothing to do with transgender idealism.
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 No.117780

>>117772
Youre insufferable.
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 No.117781

>>117772
>coping neo-gender reactionary
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 No.117783

>>117774
Femboys are pretty much the same lol
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 No.117784

>>117753
>>117766
this is a consequence of intentionally hyper-distorted western political discourse by """them"""

>>117754
>>117757
>>117758
>>117762
>>117767
stop conflating sex with gender, stop denying the material origins of gender. see >>117770

>>117772
pointless moralising with no material analysis, you're doing a shit job of countering the retardation in this thread anon
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 No.117792

File: 1627520050745.jpg ( 29.29 KB , 300x487 , dialectic_of_sex.jpg )

>>117784
>stop conflating sex with gender, stop denying the material origins of gender
I'm not doing that, you want me to do that.
Read a book.
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 No.117794

>>117792
What the fuck about
>Gender only materially exists insofar as the sexes can be assigned certain roles for their physiological ability in relationship to the needs of society. A man is usually stronger than a woman so a man hunts and does difficult labour, but most people don't hunt anymore and difficult labour is becoming more obsolete. A woman has children and is vulnerable, but that vulnerability becomes less severe as daily life becomes safer. The materially origins of gender will be mostly abolished when the physiological differences between men and women are overcome, and from there it's just a problem of ideology.
>the reason why I use "gender" instead of just "sex roles" with regards to the material origins of gender is that such roles are intentionally fluid despite being otherwise rigid. The reason why is simply that if lots of men in a tribe go missing or are killed off, the remaining women have to take up their roles. There is plenty of evidence for this and vice-versa throughout human history, and I must repeat once again that such roles are slowly becoming subverted as socially necessary physiological differences are rendered more and more obsolete by technological advancement.
Do you not understand, faggot?
No, I will not read your meme book by your meme author until you give me a good reason to.
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 No.117797

File: 1627520278688.png ( 1.22 MB , 1097x939 , You better not seriously e….png )

Oh my god just give this shit its own containment thread at this point. We have multiple threads daily where we fling shit around like baboons over the subject of trans people and whether they're revolutionary or capitalist decadence or something something material conditions blah blah Marx wrote about boypussy whatever. It's so goddamn tiring. I cant even take a bath anymore without six or seven trans obsessed posters joining in with me. JK Rowling herself is eating out of the fridge because of all this discourse, and Contrapoints and Blair White keep getting into jousting matches on my front lawn, the neighbors are starting to complain. Just fucking contain this shit.
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 No.117798

>>117797
>give this shit its own containment thread
/thread
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 No.117799

>>117797
>People want to talk about it but I don't want to hear it so its bad
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 No.117800

>>117799
the problem is that people want to talk about it without listening or thinking or doing anything other than flapping their stupid fucking gums and making throat sounds
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 No.117802

>>117794
I meant that you wat me to do that cous that makes it easy for you to ignore my actuall argument. Strawmnaning baisycly.
Firestone is one of the most important feminist writers.
>>117797
Fuck of
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 No.117804

>>117800
Not an argument, please explain how that is happening
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 No.117805

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 No.117808

File: 1627520621211.png ( 170.21 KB , 444x364 , When the overdose doesn't ….png )

>>117799
Nothing new is ever brought up, nothing constructive is had and no ideas are ever exchanged, it's just an autistic jerkoff over who can throw the words "materialist" and "dialectical" around enough to justify their kneejerk positions.
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 No.117809

>>117784
No one is conflating sex with gender you're conflating gender with a eurocentric conception of typical gender roles
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 No.117811

>>117808
You never had anything new or interesting to say in your entire life.
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 No.117813

>>117808
Lol
Couldnt a /pil/tard say the same about communist discussion in general
you are being selective in your worldview.
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 No.117814

>>117804
simple. every time we have this thread, the discussion is always the fucking same. no evolution has happened between threads such as these. even when new arguments are made they are instantly discarded in the next thread and the old retarded rhetoric is rehashed for the gorillionth time. the only conclusion i can come to is that nobody wants to actually debate anything and that these threads only exist because the obsessed culture warriors ITT have nothing better to do but spread complete and utter pointless time-wasting stupidity everywhere they go. its pure cancer and i hate all of you.
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 No.117815

>>117804
They just dont like that women are present to defend themselves, and its not just a circlejerk like their subredits.
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 No.117816

>>117814
Nihilistic attitude, sad
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 No.117817

File: 1627520861596.jpg ( 15.06 KB , 400x400 , Tell me about the rabbits,….jpg )

>>117811
I have interesting things to say about the time I fucked yo mama
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 No.117818

File: 1627520920343.gif ( 77.23 KB , 186x200 , mae youre mum.gif )

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 No.117819

>>117816
not an argument, faggot
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 No.117820

>>117815
>they just dont like
>why? How do i know? Because they just do, and they just dont, ok?
Getting there, but stll not an argument
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 No.117821

>>117814
I'm debating every point brought against me, its the opposition with ignores the whole premise of my agenda and constantly strawmans everything I say, or just insults me, or all women.
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 No.117822

>>117817
>start being questioned
>revert to reddit tier 'ironic' zingers and leave the thread
Oh, penny anon.
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 No.117823

File: 1627521116299.png ( 474.5 KB , 444x663 , Somebody fetch me a better….png )

>>117822
How about this, bring better arguments to the table, and I'll bring better quips. Deal?
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 No.117825

>>117823
My argument is that you're a boring faggot.
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 No.117827

>>117825
penny isn't going to address any points.
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 No.117828

>>117821
that's not the point. read the fucking post again. the point is that every time a thread like this is made, no progress is made for the discussion in next thread
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 No.117831

File: 1627521310984.jpg ( 66.41 KB , 736x851 , Gummy plushie.jpg )

>>117825
I'm sorry you feel that way, but I can assure you I'm not. Would you like some examples?
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 No.117832

>>117828
I'd disagree. It may be small and innumerable, but progress is made when discussion is had. Why are you the arbiter of progress, anyway?
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 No.117833

>>117828
Then address those ten points.
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 No.117835

>>117831
Do you feelings lead your thoughts, or your thoughts lead your feelings? Be honest.
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 No.117838

>>117835
not in this discussion it isn't, sorry. i'm autistic enough to have posted here for a while and it's been the same ever since it started
>Why are you the arbiter of progress
it's my opinion based on experience, you can either dismiss it or trust it, idgaf

>>117833
which ten points? you mean the ones I posted earlier? lol
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 No.117841

>>117838 (me)
>>117835
sorry, quote meant to be for >>117832
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 No.117843

File: 1627521657656.png ( 358.32 KB , 1024x732 , Listening to Chug Jug on l….png )

>>117835
Well that's a helluva question. I've never really analyzed myself like that, but if I had to say right off the bat I guess I am somewhat of a person that lets their feelings take front stage more often than not. But how are we differentiating between feelings and thoughts here. Like if I think "this is depressing" about something, am I leading with a thought or a feeling if I also feel depressed about said thing?
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 No.117845

>>117744
>Why does wanting the body more similar to the other sex neccesscitate that you also want to be the other gender, and vice versa?
It doesn't mean that, but often in order to get the transition treatment you have to perform the gender you identify as to the satisfaction of your doctor(s), who often have these kinds of beliefs. Plenty of trans people dress androgynously or unconventionally. There's also nothing wrong with dressing conventionally. The association exists because of social context not because trans people identify as a wardrobe.
>Personally, I wish i could just change my body without having to deal with the spooky bullshittery of what it 'means' to be this or that gender, how you are supposed to appear and act, and the like. But, i should only be able to 'look' like a woman (sex wise) if I 'feel' like a woman (gender wise). Why?
Because all of this exists in a social context born of christfaggotry that declares from the start that there's only 2 genders: man and rib.
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 No.117846

>>117843
I was just curious. Id say most do both to some degree, and i think just being aware of that us important in the attempt of a purely rational discussion ( if that is the goal) , as impossible as that really is. Thank you for answering
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 No.117847

>>117828
You do realize there are a lot of people with these ideas, right? It's not the same person making arguments like these every time. It's the same doing IRL work (assuming you do that lol) where you have to explain the same basic shit over and over because there's always new people who don't know it yet.
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 No.117848

>>117845
Makes sense. I just wish I could take hormones without needing to change my identity, I feel very dysphoric about my body. Seems like LARPing is the only choice and my ego is too big
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 No.117853

>>117847
/b/ is not so popular that the weekly trans hate/love thread doesn't have it's regular shitflingers. you'd expect at least a couple regulars who have evolved their arguments to give their new and improved perspectives, yet this almost never happens. so either nobody posting in the last thread posted in the next - for practically every trans thread thats ever existed - or most of the ones that do are morons and moralfags.
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 No.118011

File: 1627530672746.jpg ( 97.99 KB , 543x660 , stacking teams in tf2.jpg )

>>117753
Religion

Religion is dying out due to people getting better education, so they desperately try to gain power.
Religious authorities are no less likely to be psychopathic than capitalist CEOs are. It's calculated and completely immoral.
Finding a common enemy has been THE best way to rouse up the retarded masses and have them fight for your goal and against theirs.
>>

 No.118014

>other sex
sex is also a spook.

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